New stand

[OTT]

I don't remember that at all.

 

http://www.footballforums.net/showthread.php/126563-40-000-Seater-Tynecastle

 

Edit, would have involved buying tynecastle high school, so was wrong about it being on the current land

[Francis Albert]

What do you really expect?! Rome wasn't built in a day as they say. Are folk genuinely already expecting a fully costed stand proposal based on an architect's drawings that has full funding in place for work to start next summer...?!

 

I am rarely "in the know" as such but I have been told that various professionals have been approached and asked to meet with AB and others. Some of those meetings (I'm not sure if all) have already taken place, so things are moving in the right direction. What exactly was said in those meetings and the outcome I do not know full details of as I wasn't there and didn't want to delve as I trust the people looking into this to deliver. But a tender process for the work certainly seems to be underway.

I "really expect" what I said I expected.

[Francis Albert]

http://www.footballforums.net/showthread.php/126563-40-000-Seater-Tynecastle

 

Edit, would have involved buying tynecastle high school, so was wrong about it being on the current land

Thanks. I had forgotten that. Anyway even Vlad was not deluded enough to imagine 40,000 on just the current land plus the old social club/adult training centre and nursery. Deluded enough it has to be said.

[tian447]

You can still see the stuff from the "Tynecastle 2010" section of the old website:

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk.p.preprod.performgroup.com/page/Tynecastle2010/0,,10289,00.html

 

The images don't go full size anymore, but it was going to be ****ing beautiful

[Hackney Hearts]

http://www.footballforums.net/showthread.php/126563-40-000-Seater-Tynecastle

 

Edit, would have involved buying tynecastle high school, so was wrong about it being on the current land

 

That thread is hilarious. Apart from the over-optimistic Hearts fan, I was amused by the Rangers fan known as bonkersbet sounding "WORRIED" as early as January 2007 - if only he knew! :

 

20 mill is way more debt than rangers have . 5.9 was the last figure i heard for us . 

our downside is the mint wont invest and wants at least ?50 mill to sell up ,, with a russian consortium hovering on the horizon .

 

i have to say im WORRIED ,, if we end up with another romanov type russki,,, we're fecked mate

 

although ,, i have to say ,, im impressed with the design for the new stadium for the jambos

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Why do I get the feeling that, given the way that this thread has gone, that people might just be a bit disappinted with what is anounced at he agm re future stadium plans.

 

I din't have any info on what will be anounced by the way.

No info either, but I'll probably be in that if you're right.

 

I'm to the point that I'm expecting concept drawings and elevations and the announcement of an upcoming 500 club or some such.

[Yoda]

No info either, but I'll probably be in that if you're right.

 

I'm to the point that I'm expecting concept drawings and elevations and the announcement of an upcoming 500 club or some such.

 

I think you are correct, but I think this will be a big ask for those already contributing to FOH.

[JamboJen]

I think you are correct, but I think this will be a big ask for those already contributing to FOH.

What exactly did the 500 club involve? My dad didn't start taking me to games until the ground was already partially redeveloped so I always remember seeing the 500 club boards. My dad's a Hibs fan so if I ever asked him he probably didn't know either.

[DETTY29]

What exactly did the 500 club involve? My dad didn't start taking me to games until the ground was already partially redeveloped so I always remember seeing the 500 club boards. My dad's a Hibs fan so if I ever asked him he probably didn't know either.

You have Hearts ?500 up front and each year for 6 years uou were given ?100 to spend in vouchers at Hearts. Club shop and season tickets primarily.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

You have Hearts ?500 up front and each year for 6 years uou were given ?100 to spend in vouchers at Hearts. Club shop and season tickets primarily.

if and a big if you could have 5000 Hearts fans sign up this would contribute ?2.5m towards the new stand on the downside it would reduce Hearts income of ?3m spread over the next six seasons if they operated the 500 club under the same scheme as previously.

[Poseidon]

if and a big if you could have 5000 Hearts fans sign up this would contribute ?2.5m towards the new stand on the downside it would reduce Hearts income of ?3m spread over the next six seasons if they operated the 500 club under the same scheme as previously.

Anyone able to work out what the interest rate would be paying ?3m total over 6 years for a ?2.5m loan?

[Gorgie_Rules]

You have Hearts ?500 up front and each year for 6 years uou were given ?100 to spend in vouchers at Hearts. Club shop and season tickets primarily.

 

 

if and a big if you could have 5000 Hearts fans sign up this would contribute ?2.5m towards the new stand on the downside it would reduce Hearts income of ?3m spread over the next six seasons if they operated the 500 club under the same scheme as previously.

 

?100 to spend at Hearts over 6 years is very generous. I would be happy to pay the ?500 up front then get say ?50 off my season ticket the next two seasons. Most fans would be paying ?350+ for a season ticket anyway.

 

Or something along those lines, bigger up front cost etc

[THIRABHESES]

500 club could work but a revamped version. I paid into both and actually, counting ticket discount etc, made a 'profit'. Obviously must have been too expensive for the club.

Think present owner will be better at arithmetic than Robinson. Come to think of it Riordan is probably better at arithmetic than Robinson

[davieholt]

Anyone able to work out what the interest rate would be paying ?3m total over 6 years for a ?2.5m loan?

 

For ?2.5m to grow to ?3m over 6 years, it's around 3% pa compound - but that is the wrong way to look at it.

 

If Hearts gave each member ?100 pa to spend in the club shop for 6 years, they would be buying kit where the mark-up would be around 200%. So it would only cost Hearts ?33 pa. Of course, if you would have bought ?100 worth of kit anyway, they would also lose the mark-up but many fans don't normally spend as much so the actual cost to Hearts would be less.

[topcat]

Anyone able to work out what the interest rate would be paying ?3m total over 6 years for a ?2.5m loan?

 

I make it 6.14%.But as that's based on some assumptions it's probably better to call it 6% and not pretend to be more precise that we can be

 

6% was roughly in line with the bank of England base rates at the time 

 

Savers wouldn't have got as much as 6% return from a bank at the time but Hearts couldn't have borrowed as cheaply as 6% so it was a good deal all round.

 

The BOE Base Rates is currently 0.5%

[topcat]

The reason I got about 6% as opposed to the 3% that Davie Holt got is that that under a 500 club arrangements only a fifth of the loan is compounded for the full Five years, another fifth for 4 years etc...

 

 

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[davieholt]

The reason I got about 6% as opposed to the 3% that Davie Holt got is that that under a 500 club arrangements only a fifth of the loan is compounded for the full Five years, another fifth for 4 years etc...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

You are quite right TC. I should have used the formula for the PV of a 6 year annuity.

 

As a matter of interest, on that basis and an interest rate of 0.5%, Hearts would only need to offer ?85pa for 6 years instead of ?100pa. Doesn't look quite as good for the fans but, hey, we aren't in it to make money!

[Mysterion]

A new 500 club would be good but in the current climate (where people are already paying FoH subs) may be difficult unless incentivised. 

 

Are other options viable ?

Longer payback - still 500 but 10yr payback (would this be easier on the club?)

Larger value - ?1000 club. (10yr payback).

Elite status - ?1874 (combination of 1000 payback but the rest is a donation in return for some form of recognition). 

[Francis Albert]

Pity there isn't a recent precedent for an appropriate interest rate on a loan in a 0.5% base rate and zero inflation environment.

[Slim Anus]

I'm expecting a fully developed stand to be airlifted in and dropped into place, ready to go for the match v Celtic on the 27th.

 

With a drinking section behind the dugouts for the bantz and lolz

[Tommy Brown]

if and a big if you could have 5000 Hearts fans sign up this would contribute ?2.5m towards the new stand on the downside it would reduce Hearts income of ?3m spread over the next six seasons if they operated the 500 club under the same scheme as previously.

 

The last 500 club generated about 1750 members, 5k is seriously optimistic.

As previously stated by another poster, the likely contributers are already contributing to FOH.

[topcat]

You are quite right TC. I should have used the formula for the PV of a 6 year annuity.

 

As a matter of interest, on that basis and an interest rate of 0.5%, Hearts would only need to offer ?85pa for 6 years instead of ?100pa. Doesn't look quite as good for the fans but, hey, we aren't in it to make money!

 

 

Nowhere near as daft a sums mistake as the brainfart I had a few pages back.

[topcat]

Pity there isn't a recent precedent for an appropriate interest rate on a loan in a 0.5% base rate and zero inflation environment....

... for a company in a troubled sector that's recently emerged from administration

 

The cost of Finance and steel are currently low which works in our favour

 

But our recent troubles and the fact that since then other creditors have ended up writing off big chunks debts to Scottish football clubs works against us

[Poseidon]

Thanks guys, was trying to get an idea if that deal was good/bad in comparison to the Bidco interest rates. I guess that given we're only talking about taking in ?2.5m out of the possibly ?14m that needed then it's a bit of a moot point.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Anyone able to work out what the interest rate would be paying ?3m total over 6 years for a ?2.5m loan?

 

It looks like a bit of a high rate of return in today's market, but from the club's perspective it's got some golden benefits.  First, there's zero risk to the club's cashflow.  Yes, it means reduced cash intake, but if for some reason in the worst case we have a disaster season and get relegated and attendance drops by half or something, it just means the vouchers go unused, which is effectively debt forgiveness.  It's almost completely risk-free loan for them.  Further, the club is "paying" it back in product, which means it's directly driven by operations.

 

So for Hearts fans who are going to spend that money anyway, it's a fairly good investment.  For the club, it's incredibly safe money.  It's a win for everyone.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

The last 500 club generated about 1750 members, 5k is seriously optimistic.

As previously stated by another poster, the likely contributers are already contributing to FOH.

I totally agree with you I did quantify my statement by saying it was a big if. It would be nice to think that a lot of fans would buy into any new 500 club even allowing for the fact that most are already contributing through FoH etc.

[Jammy T]

Whoa

 

I didn't say we'd get a say. Or a vote or whatever. I just don't think a final decision will be presented to us.

 

I do think reaction will be gauged one way or another.

 

Let's face it the money, or a chunk of it, ultimately is likely to be coming from us.

[topcat]

Whoa

 

I didn't say we'd get a say. Or a vote or whatever. I just don't think a final decision will be presented to us.

 

I do think reaction will be gauged one way or another.

 

Let's face it the money, or a chunk of it, ultimately is likely to be coming from us.

More to the point we're just a few years off from ownership passing from BIDCO to FANCO so by the time any decision is implemented we, as members of the foundation, will own the club or be just about to take ownership of it.

 

Anne Budge is in charge in the medium term but this is a long term decision

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

More to the point we're just a few years off from ownership passing from BIDCO to FANCO so by the time any decision is implemented we, as members of the foundation, will own the club or be just about to take ownership of it.

 

Anne Budge is in charge in the medium term but this is a long term decision

 

 

 

 

 

 

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What your idea scenario TC? As in what happens with stadium development

[topcat]

What your idea scenario TC? As in what happens with stadium development

In the short term, not much.

 

We, the supporters, are still paying off the bill for the CVA through our foundation pledges.

 

Once that's achieved its primary objective we'll have an enviable fund raising machine up and running still with momentum and that's when we should commit to a plan

 

When Vlad was talking about stadium development the whole story was somewhat opaque. The line we were fed was that the council was the main obstacle. Most of us suspected, at the time, that it had more to do with funding issues in Lithuania and in hindsight that's clearly those issues were not just real but fatal.

 

That's doesn't mean however that the planning problems were just a fabricated decoy story. There may well be safety issues with the nearby industrial sites and it's now that we should be exploring what can be done once we are in a position to make a decision

[Ricardo Quaresma]

WE need to stay; there is ONE chance to stay & MANY chances to move in the future; the capacity can be increased to grow the club at a sensible rate

 

 

 

You never know what can happen or how soon; the flats on Gorgie Rd could be condemned for some reason, the old school likewise; the distillery could decide to relocate in a few years

 

 

 

How horrible would it be to move, only to see space open up afterwards & have to watch Tynecastle get knocked down after fighting so hard to save it all?

 

 

 

Then it would probably be turned into a big asda or tesco; they would have little bother ploughing money in to get round safety regulations; not that it would matter who or what entity bought the site

 

 

 

Gone, FOREVER

[Francis Albert]

In the short term, not much.

 

We, the supporters, are still paying off the bill for the CVA through our foundation pledges.

 

Once that's achieved its primary objective we'll have an enviable fund raising machine up and running still with momentum and that's when we should commit to a plan

 

When Vlad was talking about stadium development the whole story was somewhat opaque. The line we were fed was that the council was the main obstacle. Most of us suspected, at the time, that it had more to do with funding issues in Lithuania and in hindsight that's clearly those issues were not just real but fatal.

 

That's doesn't mean however that the planning problems were just a fabricated decoy story. There may well be safety issues with the nearby industrial sites and it's now that we should be exploring what can be done once we are in a position to make a decision

We've not even started to pay off the bill for the CVA.

[topcat]

We've not even started to pay off the bill for the CVA.

Idle sophistry

 

 

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[Francis Albert]

WE need to stay; there is ONE chance to stay & MANY chances to move in the future; the capacity can be increased to grow the club at a sensible rate

 

 

 

You never know what can happen or how soon; the flats on Gorgie Rd could be condemned for some reason, the old school likewise; the distillery could decide to relocate in a few years

 

 

 

How horrible would it be to move, only to see space open up afterwards & have to watch Tynecastle get knocked down after fighting so hard to save it all?

 

 

 

Then it would probably be turned into a big asda or tesco; they would have little bother ploughing money in to get round safety regulations; not that it would matter who or what entity bought the site

 

 

 

Gone, FOREVER

But equally how horrible to spend millions on a new stand then find that to fulfil our potential we have to move.

[Francis Albert]

Idle sophistry

 

 

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Or fact.

 

Sorry FACT!

[Francis Albert]

Whoa

 

I didn't say we'd get a say. Or a vote or whatever. I just don't think a final decision will be presented to us.

 

I do think reaction will be gauged one way or another.

 

Let's face it the money, or a chunk of it, ultimately is likely to be coming from us.

It is a decision that will have a huge impact on the future of Hearts, and which FoH as the new controlling owners will have to live with for decades. So I would be astonished if it was simply imposed by Ann without inviting fans and FoH members views. Astonished and disappointed.

[socrates82]

It is a decision that will have a huge impact on the future of Hearts, and which FoH as the new controlling owners will have to live with for decades. So I would be astonished if it was simply imposed by Ann without inviting fans and FoH members views. Astonished and disappointed.

 

Staying at Tynecastle is the obvious option and doesn't need to be put out to a vote but I've no doubt the club will canvas opinion (I thought it had already a few times?).

 

There are no downsides at all to building a new Main Stand and upping capacity to 20-23K or so. That's the size of club we are and will be for decades. If by some miracle we do fulfil some sort of mythical "potential" that will mean Celtic and future Rangers (I'm assuming they'll be back eventually) decided to stop spending sqillions of pounds every year on their squad - which I can't see happening any time soon. And we'll always have Murrayfield for glamour European ties if we want.

 

But say Celtic and Rangers do decline to nearer our level and we get our act together consistently to be regularly winning the league and competing in the CL with a waiting list of thousands for season tickets, then the few millions we spent on the stand years before will be peanuts to us. 

 

That's not going to happen though. If we ever challenge Celtic one year they will simply spend more to ensure they get the league. Our only chance to be at the top of Scottish football regularly is if Rangers and Celtic leave for some sort of Euro league. Maybe ourselves or Aberdeen can have one amazing season but that won't be enough to justify a massive new stadium.

[Do The Dance]

But equally how horrible to spend millions on a new stand then find that to fulfil our potential we have to move.

It's not equal at all. Moving away from Tynecastle is a massive decision, and one I would not want to make unless it was 100% certain that Tynie was unfit for purpose.

[Francis Albert]

It's not equal at all. Moving away from Tynecastle is a massive decision, and one I would not want to make unless it was 100% certain that Tynie was unfit for purpose.

Oh come on. What if it was 99% certain? Or 80%?

[Francis Albert]

Staying at Tynecastle is the obvious option and doesn't need to be put out to a vote but I've no doubt the club will canvas opinion (I thought it had already a few times?).

 

There are no downsides at all to building a new Main Stand and upping capacity to 20-23K or so. That's the size of club we are and will be for decades. If by some miracle we do fulfil some sort of mythical "potential" that will mean Celtic and future Rangers (I'm assuming they'll be back eventually) decided to stop spending sqillions of pounds every year on their squad - which I can't see happening any time soon. And we'll always have Murrayfield for glamour European ties if we want.

 

But say Celtic and Rangers do decline to nearer our level and we get our act together consistently to be regularly winning the league and competing in the CL with a waiting list of thousands for season tickets, then the few millions we spent on the stand years before will be peanuts to us. 

 

That's not going to happen though. If we ever challenge Celtic one year they will simply spend more to ensure they get the league. Our only chance to be at the top of Scottish football regularly is if Rangers and Celtic leave for some sort of Euro league. Maybe ourselves or Aberdeen can have one amazing season but that won't be enough to justify a massive new stadium.

I don't remember the current regime canvassing opinions.

 

I'd just like to think we'd have a chance to comment on the decision after being presented with the options. I am not sure why anyone would argue with that.

[Beast Boy]

I don't remember the current regime canvassing opinions.

 

I'd just like to think we'd have a chance to comment on the decision after being presented with the options. I am not sure why anyone would argue with that.

I cannot foresee many circumstances where the support would not be overwhelmingly against moving to be honest.

[fabienleclerq]

I don't remember the current regime canvassing opinions.

 

I'd just like to think we'd have a chance to comment on the decision after being presented with the options. I am not sure why anyone would argue with that.

Was there not a questionnaire done? Online? I'm sure some of the questions involved the future of the stadium.

[Francis Albert]

Was there not a questionnaire done? Online? I'm sure some of the questions involved the future of the stadium.

I don't know. If there was it must have been before many of the facts determining the upcoming decision were known.

[Francis Albert]

I cannot foresee many circumstances where the support would not be overwhelmingly against moving to be honest.

  Not many circumstances, But a few in which there might be a decision to be made..

[Fxxx the SPFL]

The fact is we ain't movin so there will be no requirement for any vote. Money we don't have or could afford to build a spanking new stadium so I doubt that will be on the agenda it will just be about capacity/facilities of the new stand and how to fund it. That may disappoint a few people but it is reality I'm afraid.

[jamboinglasgow]

Whoa

 

I didn't say we'd get a say. Or a vote or whatever. I just don't think a final decision will be presented to us.

 

I do think reaction will be gauged one way or another.

 

Let's face it the money, or a chunk of it, ultimately is likely to be coming from us.

 

Ann has talked in the past how she wants any decision to be made with discussion with FoH and Fans. I am sure she has final say but she will want the backing of the fans. Plus I reckon consultation will already have been carried out with FoH, and when plans are announced they will probably want a consultation period with fans.

 

By next Thursday, I am sure we will have things a bit clearer (whether it is showing full details of plans and drawings, or the AGM explaining what they are going to do going forward over the next year with regards to the stadium.)

[RobNox]

From a funding point of view, could Ann get together a group of investors willing to put up the initial funds to pay for the stadium as a loan to the club, with a schedule agreed for repayment off the loan from future FoH subscriptions?  Basically, just an extension of the deal that was brokered when Ann put up the funds to purchase the majority share holding?

[Tommy Brown]

Dave King got his board to get ?5m together within an hour.

I wish we had a board like Rangers have.

 

Edit

 

This was in reply to the post above for investors.

Yes, I am being entirely facetious.

[upgotheheads]

Dave King got his board to get ?5m together within an hour.

I wish we had a board like Rangers have.

 

Edit

 

This was in reply to the post above for investors.

Yes, I am being entirely facetious.

 

Nearly had me there!

[primrose]

So we have more details and some of the facts now, time to resurrect this old thread and see what was accurate and what was fluff!