The 2015 General Election Megathread

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

Good ******* lord.

 

What are the big plans, Mags? 

Edited May 25, 2015 by Rand Paul's Ray Bans

[Thunderstruck]

SNP councilor Pat Lee has reported Carmichael to the police

 

CLARIFICASHION

 

In the first place, the person referred to, despite being all over the election, WAS NOT A CANDIDATE.

 

Secondly, a reading of the section quoted highlights -

"...unless he can show that he had reasonable grounds for believing, and did believe, that statement to be true."

 

The purported comments are not the issue - it is the leaking of information, something that has never happened before inside or outside of an election.

[TheMaganator]

Good ******* lord.

 

What are the big plans, Mags?

Cocked up the post - check the edit

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Duda winning is just another step towards the end of the Eurozone.

Correct.

 

And good riddance to it!

[aussieh]

Correct.

And good riddance to it!

Why?. I would of thought if the EU had more conviction it would work a treat.

But uppytae UK just want their cake and eat it, hypocrisy when it comes to Europe and The Bonnie Scotland.

Edited May 25, 2015 by aussieh

[Arnold Rothstein]

SNP councilor Pat Lee has reported Carmichael to the police

 

CLARIFICASHION

 

 

"I have took it upon myself....."? The guy is clearly thick.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Why?. I would of thought if the EU had more conviction it would work a treat.

But uppytae UK just want their cake and eat it, hypocrisy when it comes to Europe and The Bonnie Scotland.

Because it is a ticking time bomb. A monetary union doesn't work without fiscal union and a fiscal union is anti-democratic unless powers are willingly ceded to that tax raising body.

[aussieh]

Because it is a ticking time bomb. A monetary union doesn't work without fiscal union and a fiscal union is anti-democratic unless powers are willingly ceded to that tax raising body.

Really?

[TheMaganator]

"I have took it upon myself....."? The guy is clearly thick.

Clearly!

 

I don't even know why stuff surprises me anymore.

 

It seems like every other day one of their elected officials does something daft like this.

[IMac]

Clearly!

 

I don't even know why stuff surprises me anymore.

 

It seems like every other day one of their elected officials does something daft like this.

 

A one party state ideal. Will take us closer to independence and that is all that matters.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Really?

Really.

 

Look at the US. Who has the power to tax? Who has the power to sell debt? Who sets the interest rate?

 

Then look at Europe and spot the gaps.

[JamboX2]

Your claim "the report said it was an accurate account of the conversation" is simply not true. You have done what many in the right wing media have done, deliberately or otherwise, and taken a partial quote and changed the context. Actually the report stated that the "memo was an accurate record of the conversation that took place between him and the French Consul General" When referring to the conversation between Sturgeon and the Ambassador the report stated that part of it had been lost in translation.

 

The truth is that when referring to the role of the civil servant the report stated

He confirmed under questioning that he believed that the memo was an accurate record of the conversation that took place between him and the French Consul General, and highlighted that the memo had stated that part of the conversation between the French Ambassador and the First Minister might well have been "lost in translation".

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scotland-office-memorandum-leak-cabinet-office-inquiry-statement

 

What the civil servant is saying is that he did not make the statement up but that some of the original conversation had been lost in translation. Clearly the bit lost in translation is the bit all parties say did not happen. It is entirely possible that the civil servant or French Consul made a mistake. The civil servant did after all write in the memo that some of the conversation was "lost in transation" It is not in any way credible that all other parties are lying to protect Sturgeon from this totally ludicrous assertion.

 

This of course makes Carmichael's position totally untenable.

 

In short, he leaked something he knew was almost certainly wrong but could be damaging to the First Minister of the country he was Secretary of State for.

 

He denied being the source of the leak and tried to blame it on a civil servant.

 

He allowed a costly enquiry to continue wasting the Cabinet Secretary's time knowing that it would expose him as the source of the leak.

 

He risked diplomatic difficulties by compromising the Ambassador and the Consul.

 

By behaving the way he did he managed to scrape home as the only Lib Dem M.P. in the country presumably because many of his constituents believed him when he denied involvement.

 

 

And as Aussieh and others have said the "memo is incorrect" We know its incorrect because the person who wrote says it might be and everybody else involved denies that Sturgeon said she would prefer a Tory government. Above all though we know it is incorrect because the government report says it is incorrect when it states that part of it is lost in translation.

 

The real issue is though the behaviour of the former SOS for Scotland. I can't imagine anybody knowing the facts, would want to be represented by him.

I'm not defending what he did. Nor is it behaviour befitting the Scottish Secretary (a post he should never have got as Moore was doing a fantastic job when they made the change).

 

We can accuse people of wrongdoing who haven't been covered by this report until the cows come home but there's no point. Carmichael has taken the hit because the trail clearly lead to him. There's no right of recall so it's up to him if he wants to be made a peer as a member of the Chiltern Hundreds on the national expense or he remains in post at cost to the tax payer or he can cost the taxpayer a by-election. If we're worried about costs lets go with the cheapest.

 

I'm happy to admit I'm wrong on this in parts.

 

And from talking to a mate of mine living in Lerwick, he's a Shetlander by birth and we were good mates at uni, it appears to be the case that the protest (50 folk according to the local paper) and the petition are being started by the non-islander SNP candidate for the area. Apparently, it's not been well received by the locals.

[Scallywag]

 

 

And from talking to a mate of mine living in Lerwick, he's a Shetlander by birth and we were good mates at uni, it appears to be the case that the protest (50 folk according to the local paper) and the petition are being started by the non-islander SNP candidate for the area. Apparently, it's not been well received by the locals.

The protest was fairly small, but it was a very good turn out considering they had to organise something at such short notice. I can assure you a large number of the signatures on the petition are from the Isles, I understand Shetland had voted narrowly in favour of the SNP so there is a lot of people feeling like they have been cheated. If Carmichael is still in his job by the weekend there will be much bigger protests. The comment that the petition has not been well recieved by the locals is just not what I am hearing. Tthere is a large number of Lib Dem voters (usually the pensioners) who will not welcome any criticism of Carmichael regardless of what he has done but most people I know are saying he must do the decent thing and resign.

[TheMaganator]

Oot of interest - do all of the people barking for his resignation think that it will be beneficial for the islands to have another vote?

 

Also - do they think it'll be beneficial to have a one party state in Scotland? That's clearly what they're looking for - with Mundell's name being brought into this.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

A one party state ideal. Will take us closer to independence and that is all that matters.

Is this one party state chat really about the fact your party got pumped ? The people voted most voted for one party clearly not your one, more bitter unionists.

[TheMaganator]

Is this one party state chat really about the fact your party got pumped ? The people voted most voted for one party clearly not your one, more bitter unionists.

No. It's about that fact that you and your ilk seemed thrilled by the prospect of a one-party state.

 

I don't know of any supporter of any other party that would relish the prospect of there being no opposition to their party.

 

Couple that with the fact that the MPs for that party aren't allowed to speak out against their leadership - and what are we left with?

[Scallywag]

Theres a very good chance the Lib Dems would win a by election. Having an MP you can trust is the least you should expect, Carmichael has lost that trust.

[TheMaganator]

"David Fluffy Mundell"

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/589812/video-people-voted-carmichael-false-pretences-hes-deep-trouble-says-salmond

 

[JamboX2]

The protest was fairly small, but it was a very good turn out considering they had to organise something at such short notice. I can assure you a large number of the signatures on the petition are from the Isles, I understand Shetland had voted narrowly in favour of the SNP so there is a lot of people feeling like they have been cheated. If Carmichael is still in his job by the weekend there will be much bigger protests. The comment that the petition has not been well recieved by the locals is just not what I am hearing. Tthere is a large number of Lib Dem voters (usually the pensioners) who will not welcome any criticism of Carmichael regardless of what he has done but most people I know are saying he must do the decent thing and resign.

Like I say I'm going on the things my mate from there is reading and hearing. Whilst I have been told people aren't in anyway happy with the actions of Carmichael, and the local press is on that boat as well, there is also the impression that this is being wound up by the SNP to a degree. I've always noted my mate refers to "mainlanders" as outsiders and whilst Carmichael hasn't always been popular, the fact he was a local islander and knew the issues well put him ahead of the SNP non-local Skene, who was felt not to know the issues around island life as well as Carmichael. Plus, I'm told by my mate the feeling is the SNP aren't that responsive to the needs of the island communities at all and are focused on the central belt more than their more unique needs. Hence, Carmichael winning then. Whether such issues - ie the record of the SNP and its relationship to the islands and the ability of a candidate to relate to its constituents from personal experience of living there - would be as prominent now in a by-election is likely to be a moot point.

 

I was also told Shetland may have voted more for the SNP but the Orcadian vote threw the seat to Carmichael. Then again, I could say Corstorphine voted Liberal and the vote in Muirhouse and Drylaw threw it to the SNP. That's just democracy, and if people in the other wards of the seat aren't happy, tough. The majority has spoken.

 

Fwiw, I think once the parliamentary review will decide his fate. And as a voter I want to see all due process completed before the next step. I don't think leaking, no matter when or what, should be an automatic resignation by law as a MP or MSP or Councillor. Nor do I think that the right of recall is any good, as it's open to abuse.

 

If his sanction is more than 5 days he will resign IMO.

[JamboX2]

Is this one party state chat really about the fact your party got pumped ? The people voted most voted for one party clearly not your one, more bitter unionists.

Be more magnanimous in victory mate. The fall from grace hurts all the more when it comes if you're a bad winner and the fall always comes.

 

Concerns over the voices of the minority being heard is as important as what "your lot" do going forward. Personally, I'm a fan of PR as all voices are heard. Sadly, in Scotland many aren't being heard on all sides of the political spectrum.

 

My fear is we have now left left-right politics behind and replaced it with pro-anti independence as the dividing line, much like the Irish pro-anti Treaty divide. It's a poor place to be in and ideas on what constitutes a better country become swamped by bitterness over identity and governmental structures.

[aussieh]

Oot of interest - do all of the people barking for his resignation think that it will be beneficial for the islands to have another vote?

 

Also - do they think it'll be beneficial to have a one party state in Scotland? That's clearly what they're looking for - with Mundell's name being brought into this.

It was never an issue when it was Labour.

[jack D and coke]

It was never an issue when it was Labour.

Course it wasn't. Everything was just great when they were touring the country demonising the Tories out of electability and hoovering up the whole countries vote. Labour were a disease in Scotland. Even before Thatcher when the country was actually on its knees and scenes like this were going on and Scotland was still listening to and voting for these these clowns! Probably cos "my da wis a miner ken" I mean look at this....

Although the the Tory vote was higher in those days that is the time the SNP sided with the Tories to bring down the labour government and thank christ they did.

 

 

It's one of the best things that has happened to Scotland in 50 years this giving the Labour Party a shoeing. To see as big a tube as Murphy and that erse Curran getting trounced was outstanding.

 

I'm not saying having a one party state is a good thing but the trouncing of labour was.

[JamboX2]

It was never an issue when it was Labour.

Tbf it was an issue but it was a lesser democratic deficit as there were also 2 other parties holding more than 5 seats.

 

PR is the way forward for the UK, even if it means 50 + UKIP MPs.

[JamboX2]

Course it wasn't. Everything was just great when they were touring the country demonising the Tories out of electability and hoovering up the whole countries vote. Labour were a disease in Scotland. Even before Thatcher when the country was actually on its knees and scenes like this were going on and Scotland was still listening to and voting for these these clowns! Probably cos "my da wis a miner ken" I mean look at this....

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1432620775.147975.jpg

Although the the Tory vote was higher in those days that is the time the SNP sided with the Tories to bring down the labour government and thank christ they did.

 

 

It's one of the best things that has happened to Scotland in 50 years this giving the Labour Party a shoeing. To see as big a tube as Murphy and that erse Curran getting trounced was outstanding.

 

I'm not saying having a one party state is a good thing but the trouncing of labour was.

Of course there's also the fact people voted Labour because up to their defeat in 1979 there was still a memory of the amazing achievements of the Attlee government and also the slum clearances of the 1960s and equal pay, workers rights etc.

 

Oh and the SNP also played a role in demonising the Tories as did the LibDems

[flecktimus]

Oot of interest - do all of the people barking for his resignation think that it will be beneficial for the islands to have another vote?

 

Also - do they think it'll be beneficial to have a one party state in Scotland? That's clearly what they're looking for - with Mundell's name being brought into this.

 

What would have been beneficial was for Carmichael to come clean before the election, instead of lying through his back teeth to save his job.  

[TheMaganator]

What would have been beneficial was for Carmichael to come clean before the election, instead of lying through his back teeth to save his job.

Agreed. But he didn't and we are where we are.

[Leipzig 51]

Wee Nicola speaking at Tynecastle this morning.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32878559

[Scallywag]

JamboX2, you touch on a lot of issues in your last post and your mates views do represent the opinions of some voters up here but the 24% swing towards the SNP highlights that those views are changing. Both Carmichael and Skene stay in the Isles but neither are born up here, I think its fair to say both are not thought of as "mainlanders" (the term is "South Moothers"). The Labour party have never taken any interest in the Isles as they tend to focus on the central belt areas which has given the Lib Dems a free reign since the days of the hugely popular Joe Grimmond. I think the SNP have a very credible candidate in Danus Skene and in the run up to the election he proved to be more informed about many of the issues than Carmichael and our Lib Dem MSP Tavish Scott. Its the first time the Lib Dems have been challenged by a credible candidate and that combined with their decision to jump into bed with the Torys at Westminster means this is no longer a safe seat for them.

 

If there is a by election I still think the Lib Dems will have a good chance of winning but I do think Carmichael's days are numbered. In a poll carried out by the local paper the Shetland Times 96% voted that he should resign which is fairly conclusive in my opinion and highlights the strength of feeling.

 

You are clearly well informed about some of the issues up here but I do think there is very much two camps and the picture your mate has painted only represents one side. Historically those views were held by the vast majority but that's no longer the case. Anyway it makes a nice change to discuss the politics of the Northern Isles with someone, I agree with your final comments that the parliamentary review. I still don't understand how Carmichael got himself in this predicament and think there is more to this story, Carmichael may be the fall guy but we will probably never know.

[Unknown user]

This "one party state" chat is brutal, it's sour grapes and utterly misleading.

 

It's not like there's only one, government sanctioned, party and that starting another is illegal - the SNP won a vast majority of seats in Scotland fair and square, based on the rules set up by those who have benefited from them before and the electorate spoke.

 

There's nothing wrong with supporters of a political party wanting a lot of seats, that's how it works, and attempting to paint it as a negative is really shitty

 

In short "one party state" = "waaaah, my enemy won in Scotland", nothing more nothing less

[jack D and coke]

This "one party state" chat is brutal, it's sour grapes and utterly misleading.

 

It's not like there's only one, government sanctioned, party and that starting another is illegal - the SNP won a vast majority of seats in Scotland fair and square, based on the rules set up by those who have benefited from them before and the electorate spoke.

 

There's nothing wrong with supporters of a political party wanting a lot of seats, that's how it works, and attempting to paint it as a negative is really shitty

 

In short "one party state" = "waaaah, my enemy won in Scotland", nothing more nothing less

Yeah it's an enormous bag of soor lemons. Like has been said many times it was all hunky dory when labour were shoe ins for the vast majority of seats. Now it's toys out the pram, one party state, 1930's Germany blah blah.

 

Idiots.

[TheMaganator]

JamboX2, you touch on a lot of issues in your last post and your mates views do represent the opinions of some voters up here but the 24% swing towards the SNP highlights that those views are changing. Both Carmichael and Skene stay in the Isles but neither are born up here, I think its fair to say both are not thought of as "mainlanders" (the term is "South Moothers"). The Labour party have never taken any interest in the Isles as they tend to focus on the central belt areas which has given the Lib Dems a free reign since the days of the hugely popular Joe Grimmond. I think the SNP have a very credible candidate in Danus Skene and in the run up to the election he proved to be more informed about many of the issues than Carmichael and our Lib Dem MSP Tavish Scott. Its the first time the Lib Dems have been challenged by a credible candidate and that combined with their decision to jump into bed with the Torys at Westminster means this is no longer a safe seat for them.

 

If there is a by election I still think the Lib Dems will have a good chance of winning but I do think Carmichael's days are numbered. In a poll carried out by the local paper the Shetland Times 96% voted that he should resign which is fairly conclusive in my opinion and highlights the strength of feeling.

 

You are clearly well informed about some of the issues up here but I do think there is very much two camps and the picture your mate has painted only represents one side. Historically those views were held by the vast majority but that's no longer the case. Anyway it makes a nice change to discuss the politics of the Northern Isles with someone, I agree with your final comments that the parliamentary review. I still don't understand how Carmichael got himself in this predicament and think there is more to this story, Carmichael may be the fall guy but we will probably never know.

Online polls mean less than nothing and are certainly not conclusive of anything.

[TheMaganator]

This "one party state" chat is brutal, it's sour grapes and utterly misleading.

 

It's not like there's only one, government sanctioned, party and that starting another is illegal - the SNP won a vast majority of seats in Scotland fair and square, based on the rules set up by those who have benefited from them before and the electorate spoke.

 

There's nothing wrong with supporters of a political party wanting a lot of seats, that's how it works, and attempting to paint it as a negative is really shitty

 

In short "one party state" = "waaaah, my enemy won in Scotland", nothing more nothing less

There's having lots of seats, which the separatists have, and there's having all the seats, which the separatists want. 

 

They have actively sought to decimate labour and fought a referendum campaign on ridding Scotland of Tories. That's fine, that's democracy. But you cant expect people not to point out how odious and creepy it is.

 

It is negative - nationalism is negative and has had a negative affect on Scotland. That is plain to see by all but the converted. 

 

In 10/20 years there are lots who count themselves as nationalists now who will look back on this period and cringe. The history books will not look fondly on you either. It isn't sour grapes from me - the Tories held their seat. Tories have come to live with an SNP government who want to disenfranchise them. I am just calling as I - and sensible members of society - see it.  

[Unknown user]

There's having lots of seats, which the separatists have, and there's having all the seats, which the separatists want. 

 

They have actively sought to decimate labour and fought a referendum campaign on ridding Scotland of Tories. That's fine, that's democracy. But you cant expect people not to point out how odious and creepy it is.

 

It is negative - nationalism is negative and has had a negative affect on Scotland. That is plain to see by all but the converted. 

 

In 10/20 years there are lots who count themselves as nationalists now who will look back on this period and cringe. The history books will not look fondly on you either. It isn't sour grapes from me - the Tories held their seat. Tories have come to live with an SNP government who want to disenfranchise them. I am just calling as I - and sensible members of society - see it.  

 

Ignoring the point that using the term "one party state" is utterly misleading and nothing more than a negative smear, which is my point in it's entirety.

 

I'm not trying to convert you, I'm just calling you out on that one repeated slur

[jack D and coke]

Listen I dislike the SNP Tory bashing thing as much as anyone, I absolutely loathe that type of politics but it's very pleasing to see labour getting a right royal dose of their own medicine. If any party ever had it coming it was them.

 

I'm not a nationalist and I know plenty people who voted SNP this time who don't think they're Rob Roy either.

 

It's the main parties sheer lack of understanding of this point which is leaving them trailing in the wake of the SNP at the moment. And they seem completely bloody minded about accepting about accepting that fact so they will toil for a long time to come.

[ToadKiller Dog]

So lib dem Malcolm Bruce thinks lying for MPs is ok because if we had to kick out everyone of them who had lied the place would be empty .

So Bruce thinks it's ok because it is wide spread .

Bizarro land from the ex MP likely soon to be Lord .

No wonder politicians have little trust from the public .

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/26/sir-malcolm-bruce-house-of-commons-lying-mps

Edited May 26, 2015 by ToadKiller Dog

[XB52]

There's having lots of seats, which the separatists have, and there's having all the seats, which the separatists want. 

 

They have actively sought to decimate labour and fought a referendum campaign on ridding Scotland of Tories. That's fine, that's democracy. But you cant expect people not to point out how odious and creepy it is.

 

It is negative - nationalism is negative and has had a negative affect on Scotland. That is plain to see by all but the converted. 

 

In 10/20 years there are lots who count themselves as nationalists now who will look back on this period and cringe. The history books will not look fondly on you either. It isn't sour grapes from me - the Tories held their seat. Tories have come to live with an SNP government who want to disenfranchise them. I am just calling as I - and sensible members of society - see it.  

God , get over yourself. Sensible members of society accept the democratic vote, you keep coming on here and whinging because more sensible members of Scottish society wanted the SNP than wanted your tories or labour. Tough

[TheMaganator]

God , get over yourself. Sensible members of society accept the democratic vote, you keep coming on here and whinging because more sensible members of Scottish society wanted the SNP than wanted your tories or labour. Tough

Who hasn't accepted the result likesy?

[TheMaganator]

On the topic of 'sensible members of society' ^^^, I bring you...

 

 

The People Versus Carmichael

 

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/story

 

Seeking clarificashion and JUSTISE

 

Edited May 26, 2015 by TheMaganator

[JAYEL]

On the topic of 'sensible members of society' ^^^, I bring you...

 

 

The People Versus Carmichael

 

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/story

 

Seeking clarificashion and JUSTISE

 

 

 

Thanks for the link

 

 

Donation made

[Thunderstruck]

God , get over yourself. Sensible members of society accept the democratic vote, you keep coming on here and whinging because more sensible members of Scottish society wanted the SNP than wanted your tories or labour. Tough

The majority of Scots voters did not vote SNP - were they "sensible"?

 

Does your notion of acceptance of the democratic vote vs being sensible extend to the democratic vote held on 18 Sept 2014? That caused more petted lips than the election just completed.

[TheMaganator]

Thanks for the link

 

 

Donation made

[Boab]

So lib dem Malcolm Bruce thinks lying for MPs is ok because if we had to kick out everyone of them who had lied the place would be empty .

So Bruce thinks it's ok because it is wide spread .

Bizarro land from the ex MP likely soon to be Lord .

No wonder politicians have little trust from the public .

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/26/sir-malcolm-bruce-house-of-commons-lying-mps

 

It isn't o.k. but I believe him when he says the place is full of liars.

[Stuart Lyon]

Re opposition to the governments austerity programme the FM says

 

"In her first major economic speech since the election, Ms Sturgeon argued that the prime minister cannot ignore the democratic will of the Scottish people."

 

So does that mean we will hear no more about another independence referendum as the SNP respect the democratic will of the Scottish people, who by a majority, voted against it?

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

oh ffs.

[Boris]

oh ffs.

[JamboX2]

We are never going to get PR as both Labour and Conservative benefit too much from the current system, although not in Scotland. The only party who are advocating a change that benefited, this time anyway, are the SNP.

 

Also you need to look deeper into the issue than just the total number of votes cast for each party. The SNP got over 22,000 per candidate standing, the Green party were under 2,000 - much of there votes were in areas they lost deposits - if you were to use the system we have in place for Scottish elections would the green's have got many more MPs? UKIP would have done better but still not as many as the 30 odd the SNP would have got.

 

Also on the other point you made about demonising the Tories, I think in Scotland they managed to do that themselves without too much help.

I reckon that an Ed Miliband minority government would've went for it to prop it up. He was open to electoral reform and backed AV as a "halfway house". Sadly that's gone.

 

Doesn't matter what more parties get, they'd be represented. Why are 2,000 voters less representable than 22,000? The answer they aren't. There'd be percentage thresholds to pass. But even if UKIP won say 3 Scottish seats or the Greens 5 or the Tories 9, parties who are disadvantaged by the current system of voting and stand no hope of multiple seats would be represented and those people who voted for them given a voice representing them.

 

At present we lack that. And I think the AMS system of Holyrood should be replaced by the STV system. It's far more representative and hands the power of preference to the voter. The current system forces a choice between candidates and parties. STV would allow you to give the Labourmparty your first choice, the SNP second and the Greens third and get at least one of your picks to represent you.

 

AMS retains a poor FPTP system with the mitigating list on regions. It's no good.

 

On the Tories, a load of Scots benefitted from Thatcherite policies. People who bought shares in industries and sold them later at a profit, people who bought their council house, people who benefited from a more liberal attitude to business and private wealth. Not just rich Scots, ordinary Scots. That's inescapable. The destruction of the old industries was arguably inevitable. In a global market unprofitable and outdated methods of production in shipping, steel and mining coal were death nails of these industries. Look at Denmark and Norway and Finland, traditional industries devastated in the same period and took decades to rebuild.

 

It's the biggest regret of the post-war Labour movement that agreement with the unions couldn't be agreed over In Place Of Strife in the late 1960s to prevent strikes through a German state arbitration method that sealed the fate of modernising industry and with its fate the fate of industrial Scotland and the Scottish Tories.

Edited May 26, 2015 by JamboX2

[Psychedelicropcircle]

No. It's about that fact that you and your ilk seemed thrilled by the prospect of a one-party state.

 

I don't know of any supporter of any other party that would relish the prospect of there being no opposition to their party.

 

Couple that with the fact that the MPs for that party aren't allowed to speak out against their leadership - and what are we left with?

I voted for whom I thought best represented me, bet you wish you could say that.

[aussieh]

The majority of Scots voters did not vote SNP - were they "sensible"?

Does your notion of acceptance of the democratic vote vs being sensible extend to the democratic vote held on 18 Sept 2014? That caused more petted lips than the election just completed.

So, are you saying Slab, Libdem, STory, and UKip are one party, because you seem to be adding them all together against the SNP. 50.02% of all who voted, voted SNP, end of.

56, soon to be 57.

[JamboX2]

I voted for whom I thought best represented me, bet you wish you could say that.

He did. He wanted an unionist and voted for it.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

He did. He wanted an unionist and voted for it.

Cut it out x2 your always on my case about making it unionist/ nationalist??