ToYouToMe Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Unfortunately his comment is not true. This sort of thing has been going on for two years in one of Israel's neighbouring countries. Nearly 200,000 dead, including over 8,000 children. While much regret over events in Syria has been expressed in the West, there has been very little of the outrage that accompanies the Israeli-Palestine conflict. Excellent point. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 syria is a civil war with civilians caught up in the middle the gaza thing is a 60 year programme of persecution and violence against the palestinian people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 syria is a civil war with civilians caught up in the middle the gaza thing is a 60 year programme of persecution and violence against the palestinian people A civil war? With foreign fighters? Do me a favour. And before anyone responds by citing the Spanish civil war, think it through and tell me that wasn't part of a larger ideological struggle. Which Syria is too. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Jambo Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 This has knocked me for six Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 This is shocking. http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5621026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Really liking this 'bad things are happening in other places so why are people bothered about Palestinians getting killed' angle. LOGIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Really liking this 'bad things are happening in other places so why are people bothered about Palestinians getting killed' angle. LOGIC. Really liking this way of twisting the discussion about whether or not Jon Snow's claim had any validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 A civil war? With foreign fighters? Do me a favour. And before anyone responds by citing the Spanish civil war, think it through and tell me that wasn't part of a larger ideological struggle. Which Syria is too. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Aren't most conflicts though. If you want to apply ideology to the Israel Palestine debacle you could say its neo-Zionism vs Palestinian nationalism which is tied up with pan arab liberation. Along with an certain Iranian strand of Islamist ideology chucked in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Israel has the right to defend itself. They are not going to stand back and let Rockets be fired to their towns and Cities. As for Hamas - the Palestinian people must point the finger to themselves for allowing this mob to rule them anyway. Was always going to end in disaster for them. On a sidenote did anyone see the clown with the Sellik top on waving a Palestinian flag half way up a mountain in France at the Tour De France. i mean, really WTF are all those clowns from that despicable club all about On Gazans and Hamas... Fatah won the election and Hamas instigated a coup. Fatah in the west bank asked for help to get rid of them. Turned down. Palestinian security forces are too restricted in their arms to stop them due to Israeli sanctions. Whereas Hamas are armed by Iran and Assad. The Palestinians in Gaza at the time welcomed them because they offered liberation and a nation state. Two things Fatah failed to achieve. So they start fighting. Years later their powerbase is stronger with young men because all they've known is Gaza being a bombed out waste land which is blockaded on all sides and is impoverished. This is a self defeating cycle. Israel could mop them up with targeted attacks quickly. Rather than shelling the whole area and flattening it with US bought fighter jets. A political settlement is the only way. We spoke with the ira to end the troubles. Tine Israel sucked it up and spoke to both the PA and Hamas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Israel has the right to defend itself. They are not going to stand back and let Rockets be fired to their towns and Cities. ... Agree But what I would want to do is go in and dismantle, remove all the rocket launchers and close the tunnels. Israel has now gone in and of course against a ferocious, desperate, determined, well trained and supplied enemy its soldiers are being killed. Relatively few just now. But if this goes on a lot of Israeli soldiers will be killed. So what Israel is doing is using rockets to blow up rocket launchers etc and maybe kill enemy combatents. And saying to their people who vote for their government - "to avoid or limit Israel military deaths we would rather kill lots of Arab children and other civilians" which is what they have been doing. We also do this we we send drones along with US to kill "militants" in Pakistan etc. And we're not even talking here about the underlying reasons for the conflict just what is being done. Killing children. Justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Let's not forget that the murder of 3 Israeli teenagers sparked this latest offensive. There are hurting families on both sides. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Let's not forget that the murder of 3 Israeli teenagers sparked this latest offensive. There are hurting families on both sides. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk You really believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 You really believe that? What are you referring to? Do I really believe that 3 teenagers were murdered by Palestinian militants? Absolutely. Yes. Do I really believe that their parents are devestated? I would have thought that was self evident. I have been asked some bizarre questions on here. I think that one takes the biscuit however. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 What are you referring to? Do I really believe that 3 teenagers were murdered by Palestinian militants? Absolutely. Yes. Do I really believe that their parents are devestated? I would have thought that was self evident. I have been asked some bizarre questions on here. I think that one takes the biscuit however. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Let me spell it out because you're answering your own questions....wrongly! Do you believe that the murder,as terrible as it was,of three teenagers started this offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Let me spell it out because you're answering your own questions....wrongly! Do you believe that the murder,as terrible as it was,of three teenagers started this offensive? Yes. In the sense that it was the last straw. I take it you don't? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Yes. In the sense that it was the last straw. I take it you don't? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk I'm not sure they needed a last straw. They were going in anyway,IMO,regardless of that terrible episode. It makes it easier for spineless politicians here and elsewhere to feel better about not condemning the blockade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 This nonsense about the murder of three teenagers being the cause of this conflict is utter tripe. The three teenagers were illegal settlers in the West Bank. Yes that's right Palestinian land. One of whom was in the IDF. Yes, an illegal occupying soldier. They were murdered by god knows who. Hamas have denied any involvement whatsoever. It was a criminal act and should have been treated as such with a criminal investigation. Instead the Israeli authorities pretended for 18 days that they believed the men were still alive when they knew they were dead from the get go. They whipped up a media frenzy and mass hysteria in Isreal only to announce what they knew all along. They then proceeded to arrest hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank. Demolished numerous homes. Killed ten people. As if this wasn't enough they then began to target Gaza with air strikes. Then and only then did Hamas return fire with Qassam rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 On the subject of Hamas. The constant representation of them as "terrorists" is absolutely ludicrous. Does anybody believe William Wallace was a terrorist? Hamas are a resistance movement made up of Palestinians who are sick and tired of being murdered in their own homes. You would be forgiven for thinking that they are some kind of shady outside agency that somehow emerged in Gaza out of the blue. Hamas are the Palestinians and the Palestinians are Hamas. They were democratically elected in 2006 when Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip. In the absence of an Air Force, Navy or Army how exactly are Palestinians supposed to defend themselves from one of the most sophisticated, ruthless and merciless Armies in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 On the subject of Hamas. The constant representation of them as "terrorists" is absolutely ludicrous. Does anybody believe William Wallace was a terrorist? Hamas are a resistance movement made up of Palestinians who are sick and tired of being murdered in their own homes. You would be forgiven for thinking that they are some kind of shady outside agency that somehow emerged in Gaza out of the blue. Hamas are the Palestinians and the Palestinians are Hamas. They were democratically elected in 2006 when Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip. I think the link posted above to the Hamas charter gives a very full picture of exactly who Hamas are and exactly what they are about. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The Hamas charter that was effectively disavowed years ago? Besides it's easy enough to find quotes from prominent Israeli figures related to a desire to wipe out Palestine. Would that make Israel terrorists? As Matt suggests it's a useless word at best and propaganda aimed at painting complex situations in black and white at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The Hamas charter that was effectively disavowed years ago? Besides it's easy enough to find quotes from prominent Israeli figures related to a desire to wipe out Palestine. Would that make Israel terrorists? As Matt suggests it's a useless word at best and propaganda aimed at painting complex situations in black and white at worst. Israel has been referred to as a terrorist state on here in several posts. You would of course disagree with that designation then. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Wish we had blow up pollockshields after the Kris Donald brutal death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shed Floodlight Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Too many people on here thinking Hamas are everyone's friends, time after time they show a dying child in a hospital (maybe same pictures shown over and over again, i don't know). They are the World's worse for a Propaganda machine and trying to get everyone and their Dog on side to show the big bad enemy for what they think are like in Israel. Well this should not cut with anyone as Hamas are just another Al-Qaheda in the making and probably more dangerous with it. As i said in an earlier post the Israeli's have the right to defend themselves and are protecting their own borders as they do not and would not want a return to the past where innocent Israeli's would be making their way home from work and be on a bus and suddenly it would be blown up by suicide bomber. That is what would happen all over again if Hamas were to get their way.Then without the need for tunnels they would certainly have no problem arming themselves with more sophisticated weaponry. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 There will always be polarized views in a situation as grave as this. There will also be some astoundingly ignorant stuff in a thread like this. I'll bow out but leave you with a question...Iran and the USA both supply arms to the two democratically elected sides in this conflict.Who,then,are the terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Wish we had blow up pollockshields after the Kris Donald brutal death. Crass. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I keep hearing "Isreal has a right to defend its self". Are people aware that what remains of the West Bank has been under military occupation since 1967? Are people aware that illegal settlements are being constructed in what remains of the West Bank? Are people aware that the Gaza Strip has been under siege since 2007 and was under military occupation before that? Are people aware that Israel controls every aspect of Palestinian life? Electricity, water, medicine, food are all controlled by Israel. At what point are the Palestininians allowed to defend themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Too many people on here thinking Hamas are everyone's friends, time after time they show a dying child in a hospital (maybe same pictures shown over and over again, i don't know). They are the World's worse for a Propaganda machine and trying to get everyone and their Dog on side to show the big bad enemy for what they think are like in Israel. Well this should not cut with anyone as Hamas are just another Al-Qaheda in the making and probably more dangerous with it. As i said in an earlier post the Israeli's have the right to defend themselves and are protecting their own borders as they do not and would not want a return to the past where innocent Israeli's would be making their way home from work and be on a bus and suddenly it would be blown up by suicide bomber. That is what would happen all over again if Hamas were to get their way.Then without the need for tunnels they would certainly have no problem arming themselves with more sophisticated weaponry. . Propaganda?!?! It beggars belief. It really does. Go to twitter and type in Gaza or Shujaia and you can see first hand from the people on the ground what Israel is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Propaganda?!?! It beggars belief. It really does. Go to twitter and type in Gaza or Shujaia and you can see first hand from the people on the ground what Israel is doing. No, you hear what THEY SAY Israel is doing. May not be the same as what they are actually doing. In such a conflict there are half truths and lies on both sides. Very rarely is the truth known. Also the day Twitter becomes a respected news source..... Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Says it all really, no rules of engagement here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 No, you hear what THEY SAY Israel is doing. May not be the same as what they are actually doing. In such a conflict there are half truths and lies on both sides. Very rarely is the truth known. Also the day Twitter becomes a respected news source.... Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Have you heard of photographs? You are aware that there are journalists from all over the world in Gaza aren't you? In my opinion Twitter is the only source to be trusted as it is a instantaneous raw feed of information. Not an edited agenda driven vehicle for political power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Powerful. Reality bites back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Interesting piece on why, in the author's opinion, Jon Snow knows nothing: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/alanjohnson/100281431/channel-4s-jon-snow-is-deluded-about-hamas/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Have you heard of photographs? You are aware that there are journalists from all over the world in Gaza aren't you? In my opinion Twitter is the only source to be trusted as it is a instantaneous raw feed of information. Not an edited agenda driven vehicle for political power. Jon Snow has apologised for tweeting pictures of the dead in Syria and passing them off as the dead in Gaza. Twitter, like everything else, is open to twisting and manipulation by the author of the tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 powerful stuff from Snow here. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004388499056 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Jon Snow has apologised for tweeting pictures of the dead in Syria and passing them off as the dead in Gaza. Twitter, like everything else, is open to twisting and manipulation by the author of the tweet. Seriously?? Have you a credible source for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Interesting piece on why, in the author's opinion, Jon Snow knows nothing: http://blogs.telegra...ed-about-hamas/ Obviously there can be back and forth about the current conflict all day long and i'm certainly not about to start defending Hamas but as you rightly point out in your next post, everything is open to manipulation and i'd suggest that this article is yet more manipulated propaganda. His first point is yet more dehumanisation of the resistance movement in Palestine and an attempt to paint the conflict as simply good versus evil which is obviously nonsense, the second point is historically inaccurate and pays no heed to any of the numerous causes that drew the militant movement in Palestine and the third one just doesn't add up. Whilst Hamas might not have universal support in Palestine the vast majority of their actions are related to social and cultural improvement within Palestine (there's a fact you won't hear on the news) and they have a good deal of popular support due to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Seriously?? Have you a credible source for this. Just from that Telegraph article I quoted above http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/alanjohnson/100281431/channel-4s-jon-snow-is-deluded-about-hamas/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Just from that Telegraph article I quoted above http://blogs.telegra...ed-about-hamas/ Can only see one versification of him admitting that he "fell for it" regarding his tweeting of this picture from the link below to his twitter feed.?? "Fell for it", what does he mean?? https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Interesting piece on why, in the author's opinion, Jon Snow knows nothing: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/alanjohnson/100281431/channel-4s-jon-snow-is-deluded-about-hamas/ That article is complete tosh. As somebody alluded to earlier when you dehumanise your enemy and make them out to be irrational savages hell bent on destroying you for no reason you can justify any action against them. It's often said that Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran or simply Arabs in general wish to "wipe Israel from the map". If you actually read what these organisations have said and in what context it becomes very clear that what they actually mean is they wish to see the end of the political entity that is Israel. They view Israel as an inherently undemocratic apartheid racist State created in their midst. You could compare it to the western powers wishing an end to the Soviet Union. This didn't mean they were going to march over Russia killing every man, women and child. Simply that the political entity should be dismantled. If you were to ask Palestinians now if they would live side by side in one State with Israelis where everybody was an equal and had a voice and a vote, there were no separate roads or schools or hospitals, no preferential treatment for one side or the other, they would certainly say yes. Palestinians have been made out to be demonic anti-Semites when their only crime is to feel massively aggrieved by their treatment at the hands of Israel. It's actually the Israelis that have no desire to live in peace with the Palestinians. As I stated earlier the entire raison d'?tre of Israel is to have a Jewish State exclusively for Jewish people. It's very clear to anybody that has studied the territorial maps of the last 70 years that Israel is attempting to take over the entire area it calls Eretz-Israel ( The Land Of Israel). Their very own declaration of Statehood didn't actually mention any set borders precisely for this reason. The West Bank has been eroded away to a few sporadic unconnected towns here and there such as Ramallah, Nablus and Hebron. All under military occupation surrounded by illegal settlements, IDF defence posts, security barriers and check points. The Gaza Strip has been squeezed and squeezed with various buffer zones and no go areas. The current events have demolished entire neighbourhoods leaving tens of thousands of people homeless. The aim of Israel is to make life so unbearable for Palestinians that they just pick up and leave. The most egregious aspect of the whole conflict is that the oppressor paints itself as the victim and the victim as the oppressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I keep hearing "Isreal has a right to defend its self". Are people aware that what remains of the West Bank has been under military occupation since 1967? Are people aware that illegal settlements are being constructed in what remains of the West Bank? Are people aware that the Gaza Strip has been under siege since 2007 and was under military occupation before that? Are people aware that Israel controls every aspect of Palestinian life? Electricity, water, medicine, food are all controlled by Israel. At what point are the Palestininians allowed to defend themselves? I suppose in the cold light of day, the Israeli people are just happy that they can now board a bus without fear of being blown up by a suicide bomber, they can now eat in restaurants without fear of being blown up by a suicide bomber, they can now attend their daughters wedding, local market, shopping mall, in relative safety which was not always the case in the late 90's and throughout the 00's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Jon Snow has apologised for tweeting pictures of the dead in Syria and passing them off as the dead in Gaza. Twitter, like everything else, is open to twisting and manipulation by the author of the tweet. The difference being the owner of a newspaper or media outlet only publishes material that corroborates their own view of the world. An editor furthermore picks what photographs are shown or whose side of the story is given emphasis. Twitter simply publishes everything. It is up to you to wade through it and draw your own conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 That article is complete tosh. As somebody alluded to earlier when you dehumanise your enemy and make them out to be irrational savages hell bent on destroying you for no reason you can justify any action against them. It's often said that Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran or simply Arabs in general wish to "wipe Israel from the map". If you actually read what these organisations have said and in what context it becomes very clear that what they actually mean is they wish to see the end of the political entity that is Israel. They view Israel as an inherently undemocratic apartheid racist State created in their midst. You could compare it to the western powers wishing an end to the Soviet Union. This didn't mean they were going to march over Russia killing every man, women and child. Simply that the political entity should be dismantled. If you were to ask Palestinians now if they would live side by side in one State with Israelis where everybody was an equal and had a voice and a vote, there were no separate roads or schools or hospitals, no preferential treatment for one side or the other, they would certainly say yes. Palestinians have been made out to be demonic anti-Semites when their only crime is to feel massively aggrieved by their treatment at the hands of Israel. It's actually the Israelis that have no desire to live in peace with the Palestinians. As I stated earlier the entire raison d'?tre of Israel is to have a Jewish State exclusively for Jewish people. It's very clear to anybody that has studied the territorial maps of the last 70 years that Israel is attempting to take over the entire area it calls Eretz-Israel ( The Land Of Israel). Their very own declaration of Statehood didn't actually mention any set borders precisely for this reason. The West Bank has been eroded away to a few sporadic unconnected towns here and there such as Ramallah, Nablus and Hebron. All under military occupation surrounded by illegal settlements, IDF defence posts, security barriers and check points. The Gaza Strip has been squeezed and squeezed with various buffer zones and no go areas. The current events have demolished entire neighbourhoods leaving tens of thousands of people homeless. The aim of Israel is to make life so unbearable for Palestinians that they just pick up and leave. The most egregious aspect of the whole conflict is that the oppressor paints itself as the victim and the victim as the oppressor. Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I suppose in the cold light of day, the Israeli people are just happy that they can now board a bus without fear of being blown up by a suicide bomber, they can now eat in restaurants without fear of being blown up by a suicide bomber, they can now attend their daughters wedding, local market, shopping mall, in relative safety which was not always the case in the late 90's and throughout the 00's. Well isn't that great. At least the Israelis get to live in comfort and luxury and are afforded all the basic rights of life. Sod the Palestinians I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Well isn't that great. At least the Israelis get to live in comfort and luxury and are afforded all the basic rights of life. Sod the Palestinians I suppose. Yep, that's about the size of it. The only way for the Israeli's to stop the killing of their people, was to try and take control of the areas and people who were carrying out theses acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 That article is complete tosh. As somebody alluded to earlier when you dehumanise your enemy and make them out to be irrational savages hell bent on destroying you for no reason you can justify any action against them. It's often said that Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran or simply Arabs in general wish to "wipe Israel from the map". If you actually read what these organisations have said and in what context it becomes very clear that what they actually mean is they wish to see the end of the political entity that is Israel. They view Israel as an inherently undemocratic apartheid racist State created in their midst. You could compare it to the western powers wishing an end to the Soviet Union. This didn't mean they were going to march over Russia killing every man, women and child. Simply that the political entity should be dismantled. If you were to ask Palestinians now if they would live side by side in one State with Israelis where everybody was an equal and had a voice and a vote, there were no separate roads or schools or hospitals, no preferential treatment for one side or the other, they would certainly say yes. Palestinians have been made out to be demonic anti-Semites when their only crime is to feel massively aggrieved by their treatment at the hands of Israel. It's actually the Israelis that have no desire to live in peace with the Palestinians. As I stated earlier the entire raison d'?tre of Israel is to have a Jewish State exclusively for Jewish people. It's very clear to anybody that has studied the territorial maps of the last 70 years that Israel is attempting to take over the entire area it calls Eretz-Israel ( The Land Of Israel). Their very own declaration of Statehood didn't actually mention any set borders precisely for this reason. The West Bank has been eroded away to a few sporadic unconnected towns here and there such as Ramallah, Nablus and Hebron. All under military occupation surrounded by illegal settlements, IDF defence posts, security barriers and check points. The Gaza Strip has been squeezed and squeezed with various buffer zones and no go areas. The current events have demolished entire neighbourhoods leaving tens of thousands of people homeless. The aim of Israel is to make life so unbearable for Palestinians that they just pick up and leave. The most egregious aspect of the whole conflict is that the oppressor paints itself as the victim and the victim as the oppressor. I know one Palestinian. She favours a one-state solution. She says that many don't. Hamas want to dismantle the state of Israel. What do you think that would mean for the Jews that live there? Out of interest what are your views on the way Hamas operate? Are the reports that they tell their citizens to martyr themselves rather than flee to safety when they're warned of rockets coming true, or tosh? I try and look at both sides of this. It's hard to say what we'd do if we were being rocketed indiscriminately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Out of interest what are your views on the way Hamas operate? Are the reports that they tell their citizens to martyr themselves rather than flee to safety when they're warned of rockets coming true, or tosh? Probably. There's no actual evidence for it, just Israeli propaganda. Compare that with Palestinians outright denying it and the fact that tens of thousands of Palestinians have fled their homes despite these supposed threats. I try and look at both sides of this. It's hard to say what we'd do if we were being rocketed indiscriminately Of course it's easy to sympathise with Israelis being attacked with rockets. Who wouldn't. That said the parties are not equal. The Israeli government and the IDF are still the aggressors in this conflict. One side enjoys advanced defence systems, modern infrastucture and a growing economy whilst the other lives in cramped, run down conditions and are being bombed and starved to death. One side invented a reason to break the ceasefire, controls the arrival of medicine and food to the other and carries out collective punishment on a civilian population whilst the other is a fragmented collection of insurgants with a poor command structure, incredibly limited communication facilities and no real external support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Here's a good piece on what triggered the current hostilities: http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/what-triggered-the-current-massacre/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt84 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Here's a good piece on what triggered the current hostilities: http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/what-triggered-the-current-massacre/ That article should be read by every person that has commented on this topic. I'm not sure how much clearer or how many more times it has to be repeated. Palestinians are not indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel. They didn't wake up one day and say hey let's just fire off some rockets at Israel. Why? Because we hate them. Why? I don't know, we just do. They are under a military occupation. They are being starved and bombed out of house and home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 On the subject of Hamas. The constant representation of them as "terrorists" is absolutely ludicrous. Does anybody believe William Wallace was a terrorist? Hamas are a resistance movement made up of Palestinians who are sick and tired of being murdered in their own homes. You would be forgiven for thinking that they are some kind of shady outside agency that somehow emerged in Gaza out of the blue. Hamas are the Palestinians and the Palestinians are Hamas. They were democratically elected in 2006 when Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip. In the absence of an Air Force, Navy or Army how exactly are Palestinians supposed to defend themselves from one of the most sophisticated, ruthless and merciless Armies in the world? A bizarre analogy to medieval history aside, Israeli actions are given Hamas justification for theirs. It doesn't mean they aren't terrorists though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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