Israel starts ground offensive in Gaza.

[Ibrahim Tall]

If the rockets were to stop now Israel would have have "won" and Hamas lost a lot of face and credibility. Basically 1000s would have died and the place obliterated for nothing and another extremist group could have capitalised on this.

The rockets resuming was probably the most predictable event of this whole conflict.

[Ulysses]

If the rockets were to stop now Israel would have have "won" and Hamas lost a lot of face and credibility. Basically 1000s would have died and the place obliterated for nothing and another extremist group could have capitalised on this.

The rockets resuming was probably the most predictable event of this whole conflict.

 

Maybe it would be for the best if Israel didn't fire back or do anything at all for a few years.

 

If I was living with the likes of Hamas and ISIL in the neighbourhood - fine upstanding examples of liberal humanist democrats that they are - that's what I'd do.

 

Well, at least that's what I'd do for my - no doubt temporary - remaining lifespan.

 

Fibble wibble completely hatstand.

[Ibrahim Tall]

 

 

 

Maybe it would be for the best if Israel didn't fire back or do anything at all for a few years.

 

If I was living with the likes of Hamas and ISIL in the neighbourhood - fine upstanding examples of liberal humanist democrats that they are - that's what I'd do.

 

Well, at least that's what I'd do for my - no doubt temporary - remaining lifespan.

 

Fibble wibble completely hatstand.

 

I'm not sure if you've misunderstood my post but I wasn't condoning Hamas just stating that it was predictable.

[leginten]

 

"The resolutely biased Western media". Aye good one, Pat.

 

Only in Opposite Land, to paraphrase Spongebob Squarepants, is the Western media biased towards the Palestinians.

 

I would say the broadcast media I've seen - BBC and Channel 4 news - have been biased towards Palestine. I'd actually go further in the case of Channel 4 news, where Jon Snow and Krishnan Guru-Murthy have completely lost the plot and abandoned all pretence at impartiality. The latter was absolutely taken to the cleaners by an Israeli government spokesman last night and ended up a gibbering, incoherent wreck.

[Ulysses]

 

 

I'm not sure if you've misunderstood my post but I wasn't condoning Hamas just stating that it was predictable.

 

No, I don't think you're condoning Hamas, it just happened that your post was a handy one for me to quote and make my point. I think others will find ways not to condemn the rockets, or at least keep quieter than maybe they should - bless our liberal consciences, eh?

[djf]

Maybe it would be for the best if Israel didn't fire back or do anything at all for a few years.

 

If I was living with the likes of Hamas and ISIL in the neighbourhood - fine upstanding examples of liberal humanist democrats that they are - that's what I'd do.

 

Well, at least that's what I'd do for my - no doubt temporary - remaining lifespan.

 

Fibble wibble completely hatstand.

 

Continuing to blow up Gaza whilst refusing to offer any concessions in terms of the blockade will not improve the safety of Israelis. Of course I'm sure you're well aware of that.

[djf]

There's going to be stacks and stacks of coverage over the coming weeks trying to associate Hamas with IS whether directly or subtly.

 

Just to get it out of the way early. Here's Hamas list of demands for a 10 year truce.

Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.

Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.

Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.

Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.

Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.

Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.

International forces on the borders.

Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.

Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.

Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

 

• 
   
  

[XXX]

Had it not been for Americas support, Israel would have been forced to reform or be isolated from the rest of the world years ago.

 

It's astonishing that Congress invite a foreign prime minister to make speeches in front of them.

 

Congress vote for Israeli policies almost 100 to 0.

 

In the UK we have lobby groups like Conservative friends of Israel who have no UK interest at all.

 

They're sole goal is to make British foreign policy friendly for Israel.

 

All this talk of immigration and assimilation of migrants in the UK and we have foreign interest groups at the top of government dictating our politics.

[stevie]

Are Hamas not just another group of terrorists?They don't appear to be too concerned that 1000s of their people are being killed as a direct response to their actions.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

There's going to be stacks and stacks of coverage over the coming weeks trying to associate Hamas with IS whether directly or subtly.

 

Just to get it out of the way early. Here's Hamas list of demands for a 10 year truce.

Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.

Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.

Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.

Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.

Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.

Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.

International forces on the borders.

Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.

Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.

Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

 

1) Removal of tanks from Border region. Highly unlikely. A good defense can mean a quick offense.

2) Possibly but will depend on where they were arrested. Street side or tunnel side

3) Theres an Egyptian border that isn't open either for whats believed good reason

4) UN supervision? Israel will be tripping over themselves for that one

5) Gives Hamas more room to work with while smuggling weapons in. Or they just might be looking for bigger fish shoals

6) UN again

7) International forces from where?

8) Isn't that in Jerusalem?

9) Israel would never ever agree to Hamas and Fatah being ONE. Doubt Hamas and Fatah could reconcile to be ONE anyway.

10) Hamas are a terrorist group. No known company would want to spend money on or in Gaza with its history and most likely dodgy future.

Does it suck for Palestinians living in Gaza? Obviously but its not changing in our lifetime.

[Ulysses]

Continuing to blow up Gaza whilst refusing to offer any concessions in terms of the blockade will not improve the safety of Israelis. Of course I'm sure you're well aware of that.

 

Not continuing to blow up Gaza doesn't seem to have helped much, does it? Offering concessions or not offering concessions hasn't ever seemed to make a blind bit of difference, has it?

 

Have you ever stopped and asked yourself why that is?

 

Hamas are now making demands in return for a 10-year truce. Demands? Who the **** do they think they are? 10-year truce? Why the **** should they get anything in return for temporarily ceasing fire? And anyway, a truce wouldn't last 10 years, or 10 months. Feck sake, you'd be lucky to get 10 hours.

 

And whatever reply you're thinking of making, please spare me any bleeding heart whataboutery. There was supposed to be a ceasefire. Israel ceased firing, probably knowing full well that Hamas couldn't hold their piss never mind hold a ceasefire. And what did the raving loolahs of Hamas do? Yep, you've guessed it, they fired rockets. Quelle surprise, as they say in Yiddish.

[djf]

Do tell me what meaningful concessions Israel have offered to the people of Gaza over the past 6 years that would deserve a reduction in violent resistance? I'm all ears.

 

Of course a cease fire was never going to hold. It's hardly a shock that a return to the status quo of enforced poverty didn't appeal to a people who have just lost the majority of their infrastructure and the lives of their family and friends.

 

Ask the people of the West Bank how effective not poking the bear has been at bringing positive change to their situation.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Do tell me what meaningful concessions Israel have offered to the people of Gaza over the past 6 years that would deserve a reduction in violent resistance? I'm all ears.

 

Of course a cease fire was never going to hold. It's hardly a shock that a return to the status quo of enforced poverty didn't appeal to a people who have just lost the majority of their infrastructure and the lives of their family and friends.

 

Ask the people of the West Bank how effective not poking the bear has been at bringing positive change to their situation.

That's all well and good but what is violent resistance actually achieving? If Hamas had any brains they would realise that Arab "jihad" on Israel amounts to nothing more than words and indeed Hamas have little in the way of direct support from the wider Arab world.

[djf]

 

That's all well and good but what is violent resistance actually achieving? If Hamas had any brains they would realise that Arab "jihad" on Israel amounts to nothing more than words and indeed Hamas have little in the way of direct support from the wider Arab world.

 

Probably nothing. Best case scenario for Hamas is that the fighting draws the worlds attention which could subsequently lead to international pressure on Israel. Whilst peaceful resistance would be looked upon better it's painfully obvious that if they don't fight, then nobody watches.

 

That's why I direct my anger and criticism at Israel. The Palestinian people have no power to end the violence. They were oppressed and attacked before Hamas and will be long after Hamas self-combust. Peace does nothing, violence does nothing.

 

Israel however are an educated, economic powerhouse backed by the US. They have the ability and power to take steps to end the killing. Of course it's wrong that they face perpetual rocket attacks from Gaza. However without significant and reasonable change in their policy towards the Palestinian population that won't change.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Probably nothing. Best case scenario for Hamas is that the fighting draws the worlds attention which could subsequently lead to international pressure on Israel. Whilst peaceful resistance would be looked upon better it's painfully obvious that if they don't fight, then nobody watches.

 

That's why I direct my anger and criticism at Israel. The Palestinian people have no power to end the violence. They were oppressed and attacked before Hamas and will be long after Hamas self-combust. Peace does nothing, violence does nothing.

 

Israel however are an educated, economic powerhouse backed by the US. They have the ability and power to take steps to end the killing. Of course it's wrong that they face perpetual rocket attacks from Gaza. However without significant and reasonable change in their policy towards the Palestinian population that won't change.

 

And yet Hamas have given us this 10 point plan, which is about as realistic as the PIRA demanding British troops leave Northern Ireland immediately in the 1970s.

[Adam Murray]

 

 

Probably nothing. Best case scenario for Hamas is that the fighting draws the worlds attention which could subsequently lead to international pressure on Israel. Whilst peaceful resistance would be looked upon better it's painfully obvious that if they don't fight, then nobody watches.

 

That's why I direct my anger and criticism at Israel. The Palestinian people have no power to end the violence. They were oppressed and attacked before Hamas and will be long after Hamas self-combust. Peace does nothing, violence does nothing.

 

Israel however are an educated, economic powerhouse backed by the US. They have the ability and power to take steps to end the killing. Of course it's wrong that they face perpetual rocket attacks from Gaza. However without significant and reasonable change in their policy towards the Palestinian population that won't change.

 

Israel are a strong and economic powerhouse, and are taking steps to stop the killing, the killing of their people, and I suppose if you are an Israeli citizen, that's all that matters.