Australis Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Seen this on twitter today. If Arabs lays down arms, no more war; If Israel does, no more Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Seen this on twitter today. If Arabs lays down arms, no more war; If Israel does, no more Israel Correct. Hamas love this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Seen this on twitter today. If Arabs lays down arms, no more war; If Israel does, no more Israel I agree Israel has the right to defend themselves but where is the line in the sand? I used to sympathise with them being surrounded by states who despise them but they are overstepping the mark now. Massively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 If the roles were reversed? The roles WERE reversed in 1945 but it didn't stop the new Israeli jews from chasing out 700,000 Palestine Arabs and nearly ridding palestine of the entire Arab population by 1967. You'd think a population that survived the holocaust would live peacefully with people but instead they've oppressed and bullied the locals out of their own land and taken it over. Their acts are despicable and more should be done to stop this state from the mass slaughter it is committing right now which is slipping under the radar largely because of the Ukraine tragedy. Maybe the UK should shoulder some blame for putting these people on other peoples land and the US should shoulder some blame for making them untouchable and bring an end to this murderous mess. We, afterall partly caused this latest 70 year feud on that land. While it is relatively understandable to adopt such a train of thought it also just as easy to draw the conclusion that what they went through in the Second World War may be the exact reasons why now, having built up the country they have, the Israelis will defend it to the hilt. There may well be an in built fear that history could repeat itself and if they lay down their weapons they are also laying down, full stop. There seems to be a choice, whereby they convince the Arab states around them to leave them in peace or they (Israel) disband their armed forces, step back and hope the Arab states will accept this. I suspect the second option is not an option/chance they will be willing to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 http://www.thejournal.ie/irish4srael-ipsc-1576060-Jul2014/ Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Seen this on twitter today. If Arabs lays down arms, no more war; If Israel does, no more Israel If Palestinians lay down arms, no more Palestine. Your phrase sounded nice though and that's what's important - a cute little phrase that can sum up the whole conflict for the hard of thinking. As for "arabs" in the main Arabian states have turned their backs on Palestine. Only Lebanon, Jordan and Syria before the civil war were real Palestinian allies. The rest turned a blind eye when necessary or took the dollar. The secterian wars from old tribal allegiances in comparison to the borders artificially manufactured by European Empires makes armed fighting inevitable in the greater Arabia and Arab states will never come together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Pat never fails. What a man. 2011 this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Seen this on twitter today. If Arabs lays down arms, no more war; If Israel does, no more Israel Yeah, I'm sure a fraction of 1.6m Palestines could take down a country of 7m with a defence force. What a lot of utter shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm guessing its trendy to be pro Palestine. Another uncomfortable truth for lefties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 People unironically using Israeli propaganda to defend the bombings of hospitals and schools. Great work guys. It's absolutely laughable that people persist with this 'truth is in the middle' pish during the days of round the clock news coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Oh, wait. You actually believe and agree with this stuff? Wonder how many people would be on the Jewish side of this debate had they been handed christian Uganda and swept through it like a plague killing the locals and telling the others where they could live and how. I'm guessing Pat's videos would never surface and Israel's big pals USA would be quite a bit less supportive. Especially given Uganda isn't in the middle-east. P.s Palestinians have more right to question Israels right to be a state than Israeli's do Palestine. Given whose land the state of Israel is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Apparently tonight the family home of the four Palestinian boys killed playing football on the beach was destroyed. The UN suggest over 70% of Palestinian casualties are civilians. In 24 hours, 45 Palestinian children were killed by Israeli strikes. But of course they just need to force a disconnected body of angry militants to collectively agree to stop launching fireworks aimlessly if they want to keep their homes and families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 On Friday the US senate vote 100-0 supporting Israeli action against Gaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoddy84 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yeah, I'm sure a fraction of 1.6m Palestines could take down a country of 7m with a defence force. What a lot of utter shite. It's not just the Palestines that hate the jews though is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 On Friday the US senate vote 100-0 supporting Israeli action against Gaza. US Senate Unanimously Passes Resolution Supporting Israeli Assault on Gaza Friday July 18, 2014 23:19 by Chris Carlson - 1 of International Middle East Media Center Editorial Group Following a similar resolution passed last week by the U.S. House, the U.S. Senate voted Thursday night to support Israel?s ongoing invasion of the Gaza Strip. Wiki Commons image No dissenting vote was cast, and no mention was made of the hundreds of Palestinian civilians, most of whom are women and children, that have been killed by Israel in the past ten days. Senate Resolution 498 was authored by Bob Menendez (D-NJ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), with additional support by Ben Cardin (D-MD) and son of former Republican party politician Ron Paul, Rand Paul (R-KY). Paul is urging the Senate to pass his own bill, S. 2265, which would end all U.S. foreign aid to the Palestinian Authority until Hamas is barred from the new Palestinian unity government, among other stipulations. The resolution was passed on the very same night Israel launched its current ground offensive into the Gaza Strip. The United States and Israel, this past week, signed an agreement under which $429 million of American taxpayers? money "will be transferred immediately to Israel" to further fund the Iron Dome missile system, which has recently come under scrutiny by prize winning Israeli defense and aerospace engineering expert Dr. Moti Shefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's not just the Palestines that hate the jews though is it? Palestinians don't hate Jews. What a stupid thing to say. Palestinians want peace and want their homes back. They hate the Israeli gov't for denying them this. Do these people have time to hate others based on their religion? No, they aren't spending a few hours pondering over the Torah or whether the Jewish tribe that betrayed Mohammed during the rebellion is worthy of hatred. That mother is too busy finding their next meal for her child, clean water or a place to sleep that night. I can gurantee she couldn't give two flying f's about the Jewish religion or have a problem with "jews" and it's completely offensive to suggest anti semitism in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ten Year Ceasefire Offered by Hamas. Are any of the conditions unfair? Why is this not reported? Ten years of relative peace can begin tomorrow. The ball is in Israel's court. http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/report-israel-conditions.html Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. International forces on the borders. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 One of the biggest barriers to a solution is Palestine's actual status as an entity. It lacks statehood. The world recognizes the right of Israel but not Palestine to be a nation. If it did then this would be state on state dispute and international law would apply. Israel effectively calls this policing action and makes it an internal matter. I in no way condone Hamas. But the fact is this is a beast of Israels own creation. Occupying Gaza, depriving it if raw materials to effectively rebuild, blockading it by land and see has created a Ghetto on their border. One which has a starved and impoverished people stuck. Egypt wont take them. And nor will anywhere else. What this does, as does every bombing, every dead civilian, is radicalise a new generation and rally them to tge corrupted cause if Hamas. Want to solve this? Actually accept a two state solution, recognize Palestine and pump aid into Gaza and the West Bank and build a self sufficient nation state. UN Peacekeepers are also needed as a buffer between the two till trust can be built. But that is as far away as its ever been now. A journalist for the independent wrote boys in gaza dont want to be doctors but want to be Hamas fighters. Thats sickening and self defeating. Israel has a military with the best special forces in the middle east. Seems odd they cant be used to deal with a few pick up trucks and kytusha rockets from ww2 and need to bomb whole streets and shell whole towns to do the job well. If we want to view it as a cycle of history you can. Zionist Freedom Fighters blew up British soldiers and civilians in Palestine in large numbers in the 1940s to have a homeland. If we are glib, Militant Palestinians are doing likewise today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ten Year Ceasefire Offered by Hamas. Are any of the conditions unfair? Why is this not reported? Ten years of relative peace can begin tomorrow. The ball is in Israel's court. http://mondoweiss.ne...conditions.html Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations. International forces on the borders. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip. Conditions for permits to pray at a mosque? What's this? Anyone know? All sounds reasonable to me. They want not to be living in what is a massive prison, essentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Conditions for permits to pray at a mosque? What's this? Anyone know? All sounds reasonable to me. They want not to be living in what is a massive prison, essentially. It's as simple as it sounds. Israel regularly prevents Gazans and those from the West Bank from praying in the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem for "security reasons". Since it is a particularly holy site in Islam, they see this as an unfair restriction on their right to practice their religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It's as simple as it sounds. Israel regularly prevents Gazans and those from the West Bank from praying in the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem for "security reasons". Since it is a particularly holy site in Islam, they see this as an unfair restriction on their right to practice their religion. Ta. If I had been asked to guess I would have gone with something like that I suppose. I'm not even remotely surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Palestinians don't hate Jews. What a stupid thing to say. Palestinians want peace and want their homes back. They hate the Israeli gov't for denying them this. Do these people have time to hate others based on their religion? No, they aren't spending a few hours pondering over the Torah or whether the Jewish tribe that betrayed Mohammed during the rebellion is worthy of hatred. That mother is too busy finding their next meal for her child, clean water or a place to sleep that night. I can gurantee she couldn't give two flying f's about the Jewish religion or have a problem with "jews" and it's completely offensive to suggest anti semitism in this context. There is hatred on both sides. How else do you categorise the abduction and murder of three Israeli teenagers? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 There is hatred on both sides. How else do you categorise the abduction and murder of three Israeli teenagers? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk A tragice event that had nothing to do with anti-semitism. Palestinians have been being murdered by Israeli forces all year and Israel also holds massive amounts of Palestinian prisoners. A lot without any charge. Some Palestinians see it as a revenge attack, some see it as a protest against said holding of prisoners. It's a disgusting event that should never have hapoened. It wasn't an anti-semitic murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 A tragice event that had nothing to do with anti-semitism. Palestinians have been being murdered by Israeli forces all year and Israel also holds massive amounts of Palestinian prisoners. A lot without any charge. Some Palestinians see it as a revenge attack, some see it as a protest against said holding of prisoners. It's a disgusting event that should never have hapoened. It wasn't an anti-semitic murder. How can you say that for sure? We don't know the motivation behind it. But the idea that anti-semitism doesn't motivate some Palestinians, sorry I don't believe it. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 A tragice event that had nothing to do with anti-semitism. Palestinians have been being murdered by Israeli forces all year and Israel also holds massive amounts of Palestinian prisoners. A lot without any charge. Some Palestinians see it as a revenge attack, some see it as a protest against said holding of prisoners. It's a disgusting event that should never have hapoened. It wasn't an anti-semitic murder. You can't really say that, without knowing actually who committed the murders and them giving their reasons you can't rule that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28402882 Now if it motivates some supporters in the West, I am sure it motivates an awful lot of Palestinians too. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 No-ones said anti-semitism in Palestine doesn't exist. Bash on though. Is anti-semitism worse than islamaphobia? No. That exists amongst vast amounts of Israeli's as well. The murders were revenge attacks IMO. Which I should've stated, TBF. They were a despicable act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Scott playing a blinder here. Currently the only I/P story on the BBC home page is about an Israeli soldier going missing in Gaza. Meanwhile 7 more Palestinians have been killed over night, Israel have started attacking the offices of Al-Jazeera and they have just rejected a UN requested 5 hour cease-fire. Agenda setting of the worst kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Taking out all the clever spin doctors it does seem that both sides are ignoring "the rules of engagement" in conflicts of war, this wee video shows the simplistic perspectives of the origins of this very sad conflict.I may add that i feel that deliberately bombing civilian areas and hospitals is fecking evil as feck and as usual the UN, US and the UK sit back. The Origins of the Israeli Palestinian Conflict in Cartoonish Simplicity; http://wakingtimes.com/gallery/2014/07/21/origins-israeli-palestinian-conflict-cartoonish-simplicity/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Seems a wee bit extravagant to say the least in the amount of insertions into Palestine. Palestine genocide is the name of the game eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Aren't the Palestinians a semitic race as well? Must be tough for them to be anti-semitic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I just knew you'd extavegantly miss the point and bring up the holocaust Anti-semitism has went to a worse level than Islamaphobia. Because someone in power acted on it. Hating jews for their religion isn't any worse or any better than hating muslims for theirs. Thems the facts. Yeah let's forget all about the holocaust. Minor blip that eh. **** me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notbrainwashed Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Worth a wee read. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lliana-bird/why-im-proisraeli-and-pro-palestinian_b_5592220.html?utm_hp_ref=tw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yeah let's forget all about the holocaust. Minor blip that eh. **** me. Despite saying I'm done with tour argument I feel the need to spell it out to you exactly what I mean with a question. Is it a lesser evil for jews to oppress and in some instances kill muslims based on a hatred of their belief than it is for it to happen the other way around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Sten's problem (although i'm sure he doesn't see it this way) is that he's swallowed the right wing kool-aid and views Palestinians as shadowy caricatures rather than rational actors. It's absolute nonsense to suggest that anti-semitism is the driving force behind the violent reaction of Palestinians when they have watched their families, towns and freedom be systematically destroyed for decades. Even ignoring the irony of using the Warsaw ghetto uprising as an example there are countless other examples of oppressed communities reacting violently throughout history where religion was not a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Whatever side you're on, it's surely impossible to defend the disproportion of Israel's attacks. I mean, regardless of whether Hamas are firing crude, half-arsed rockets or not, firing rockets is going to provoke some response. But it's the reckless killing of so many civilians in Gaza that I can't accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Blind hatred for all religions, although in this case Islam seems to be worthy of more hatred than Judaism for some reason, seems to be causing some bother on here. Muslims don't as a religion, want to kill Jews, or any other religion for that matter. Funda-mentalists are a different story of course, but then they just want everyone to become Muslims. In this case, Hamas are wanting to fight back against Israel, their tactics are far from honourable and deserve to be condemned. However, Israel mindlessly shooting ambulances, hospitals, schools, bairns playing on a beach is absolutely shocking and shouldn't be ignored. I'm neither pro-Israel or pro-Palestine btw, I just find the bully boy tactics of Israel and the lack of action against them for these actions deplorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Nah we've got it all wrong. The IDF actually deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for keeping the civilian casualties at merely ~70% http://www.timesofis...able-restraint/ There's this insane disconnect over the whole situation where Israel claim Hamas are using civilian shields so it's not their fault if innocents are killed. You don't just get to blow a hole in a school kid because you want to kill the person standing behind them. It's a textbook definition of war crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parker Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 My word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Nah we've got it all wrong. The IDF actually deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for keeping the civilian casualties at merely ~70% http://www.timesofis...able-restraint/ There's this insane disconnect over the whole situation where Israel claim Hamas are using civilian shields so it's not their fault if innocents are killed. You don't just get to blow a hole in a school kid because you want to kill the person standing behind them. It's a textbook definition of war crime. To be fair to them they did warn all the people to leave the town and cities 5 hours before they started to bomb them, and this was after they are blow up all the roads out. I mean it's not they fault that these people have no where to go. The human shields bullshit is completely throw out the water when you see the clips of the boys playing on the beach, whole beach is empty apart from them playing football, obviously Hamas were hiding in the sand. And the IDF doesn't target civilians, this is a complete lie. http://t.co/3NM9lWApY1 http://t.co/QvJsbCM1MX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Why do none of the bigger arab nations support the Palestinians? Why do they leave them to suffer. #hungouttodry Why does the world not get involved more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Just saw that Al-Jazeera's buildings have been bombed about a day after Israel said it would do everything in their power to stop it functioning in Israel. Israel claims the building wasn't deliberately targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Aren't the Palestinians a semitic race as well? Must be tough for them to be anti-semitic! Indeed they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The world is seriously fecked up right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9265051/not-enough-dead-jews/ Good piece on 'Israel abandoned' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 http://www.spectator...ough-dead-jews/ Good piece on 'Israel abandoned' If anything, the West abandoned the Palestinians a long, long time ago. I'm not sure anyone is being as simplistic as saying that Israel is wrong and the Palestinians are right. Both Israel & Hamas are at fault here. As usual, it is the average Joe who is caught in the middle and has to deal with it. Unfortunately what these events will reap is further entrenched positions and martyrs on both sides, thus perpetuating the conflict, physically and rhetorically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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