The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Spellczech]

"Get away with"

 

I think I see your point in terms of the wider judgement on Rangers and Murray but only Craig Whyte is on trial here

Yeah I guess I didn't phrase it very well. I guess what I am trying to say is that it appears to come down to: Did Whyte have the money to buy Rangers or not? If the deal was for ?4m or ?27m then no, but if the deal was for ?1 then yes. It appears that whilst maintaining that deal was for ?4m(Murray) or ?27m(HBOS) the simple truth is that neither cared where the money came from only that HBOS managed to get its ?18m OD repaid and that MIH got to write-off its Interco Loans to Rangers. 

[Mikey1874]

Yeah I guess I didn't phrase it very well. I guess what I am trying to say is that it appears to come down to: Did Whyte have the money to buy Rangers or not? If the deal was for ?4m or ?27m then no, but if the deal was for ?1 then yes. It appears that whilst maintaining that deal was for ?4m(Murray) or ?27m(HBOS) the simple truth is that neither cared where the money came from only that HBOS managed to get its ?18m OD repaid and that MIH got to write-off its Interco Loans to Rangers.

Yeah

 

Case seems to starting to get a this but whether it does give a full picture remains to be seen.

[Footballfirst]

it's a bit ridiculous that Mike McGill has been asked to read out the 27 page Share Purchase Agreement to the court, in it's entirety.

[Strachsuit]

The Ellis bid was backed by sources in Qatar and Dubai according to MSM sources at the time. The guy wo owned Leeds Utd was also involved as a backer. I think they upset Walter Smith and Johnson somewhere along the line close to the conclusion point and the deal fell apart.

 

Nope, afraid not. Unless Mike McGill is lying under oath:

 

David Henderson? 

@DJSHenderson

 Follow 

More

Ellis bid had funds from Lithuanian bank. They had the wherewithall. Murray group very uncomfortable dealing with the Lithuanian bank

 

David Henderson? @DJSHenderson  4h

4 hours ago

More

The bank had reputation for involvement in money laundering.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Strachsuit

[Mikey1874]

it's a bit ridiculous that Mike McGill has been asked to read out the 27 page Share Purchase Agreement to the court, in it's entirety.

Jury trials can be really slow

 

Advocate wants jury to hear and note the importance of the Share Purchase Agreement is my guess

Edited May 4, 2017 by Mikey1874

[Footballfirst]

Jury trials can be really slow

 

Advocate wants jury to hear and note the importance of the Share Purchase Agreement is my guess

 

As I understand it, any document, or part of a document, that either party wishes to be used as evidence,has to be read to the court.  Thus far there have bee a mix of documents (e.g emails) read out in full, and only extracts of others (e.g. letters) read out in full.  Where only an extract is read out, then only that extract can be used in evidence, leaving the jury unaware of the contents of the rest of the document.

 

As much of the SPA is actually legal jargon, I would expect that interpretation of it would be beyond the ken of several members of the jury.  I'm just surprised that the crown feels the need to have the whole agreement submitted as one.

 

That said, I think that today's evidence at least shows that the prosecution is now starting to build the case for a fraud having occurred.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Footballfirst

[Strachsuit]

David Henderson? @DJSHenderson  3m

3 minutes ago

More

The court hears that the contract refers to having funds immediately available -- "here and now" says Mike Mcgill- which he says is crucial

 

It's now clear (if it ever wasn't), CW didn't have the funds available - he didn't have access to the funds to pay LBG until he had sold off the future STs through Ticketus - surely that process took a fairly long time? If it did, was there a "cooling off" opportunity for SDM to pull out of the deal if the bank debt hadn't been paid within X days? Or did he simply not care as the toxic club had been disposed of?

[jambovambo]

Doleman :

 

In agreement purchaser undertakes not to do anything that would breach rules of SPL, SFA and UEFA and not to appoint any disqualified person

[Gizmo]

Did Whyte make anything out of this deal (apart from this court action!)?

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

FF, you are "shameless" making such a guess.

 

But not a liar unlike someone being referred to.

[Don Dan]

The whole saga stinks to high heaven. One group of dodgy shisters (Murray and Rangers) conning another group (Whyte and Co) of shisters who were trying a reverse con. Buying a dodgy company with dodgy funds or none at all.

 

Hope that made sense

Edited May 4, 2017 by Dannie Boy

[buzzbomb1958]

Old Rangers were run by shysters ,history repeating itself with sevco no fekin sympathy from me in fact give them more pain and embarrassment

[The Gasman]

Doleman :

 

In agreement purchaser undertakes not to do anything that would breach rules of SPL, SFA and UEFA and not to appoint any disqualified person

But the purchaser was a disqualified person....[emoji848]

[Footballfirst]

But the purchaser was a disqualified person....[emoji848]

 

He wasn't disqualified from being a director at the time of the purchase. His seven year disqualification ended in 2007.

 

The relevance of the disqualification issue will be the ?Warranties and Undertakings? specified in the SPA relating to the football authorities.

6 .1.4         the acquisition of the Shares by the Purchaser will not lead to a breach of the rules of:

(a.)        the Scottish Football Association (including but not limited to the dual interest rules contained therein);

 

(b.)         the Scottish Premier League (including but not limited to the dual interest rules contained therein);

 

(c.)        any rules promulgated or regulated by UEFA including but not limited to those relating to UEFA Champions League and Europa League participation; and

 

6.1.5  it will not appoint to the board of directors of the Company any person  who is  not permitted to act as a director of the Company as a matter of law or by reference to the rules of any footballing or other sporting organisation or body to which the Company is subject.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Footballfirst

[CJGJ]

A very good piece by JJ on Sdm.

 

Is it a good piece because it fits your interpretation of events or because it's been written by one of your Celtic minded friends ?

 

So far we have learnt little that was not already known from previous stories..... and the story above is just another puff piece hundreds could have written and have over the last few years.

This faith you have in those bloggers is amazing even when they have been 'outed' or 'tainted' which you choose to ignore.

[Jamdub]

Is it a good piece because it fits your interpretation of events or because it's been written by one of your Celtic minded friends ?

 

So far we have learnt little that was not already known from previous stories..... and the story above is just another puff piece hundreds could have written and have over the last few years.

This faith you have in those bloggers is amazing even when they have been 'outed' or 'tainted' which you choose to ignore.

Our bigot bear is back, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, showing his true colours....again.

[buzzbomb1958]

Is it a good piece because it fits your interpretation of events or because it's been written by one of your Celtic minded friends ?

 

So far we have learnt little that was not already known from previous stories..... and the story above is just another puff piece hundreds could have written and have over the last few years.

This faith you have in those bloggers is amazing even when they have been 'outed' or 'tainted' which you choose to ignore.

Don't you want to know who put your old club on a downward spiral before you let your old club die ,burying your head in the sand again your new club will go the same way ,WATP absolutely comical

[Mikey1874]

Yeah

 

Think case will be thrown out

 

Hopefully not before more evidence to give the full picture

 

Still anything is possible

[Hagar the Horrible]

Don't you want to know who put your old club on a downward spiral before you let your old club die ,burying your head in the sand again your new club will go the same way ,WATP absolutely comical

Change WATP for WLOCD

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Don't wish to comment on what's been presented too much but it strikes me that the correct venue for this case should be the civil courts rather than the publicly funded criminal courts.

[Deevers]

Findlay is doing a superb job of painting Ibrox as a hive of duplicity, and dishonesty. Trying to present Whyte as some sort of a victim in all of this. I hope this whole thing keeps going into the defence case and all the dishonesty is laid bare for everyone to see.

[Tommy Brown]

Help me out here.

If the court finds Whyte guilty, what would the likely outcome be?

 

If found, not guilty.

Am I correct in saying, Murray will look like a bad guy, but all will just be brushed under the carpet with signs "nothing to see" and "no surrender".

 

I'm struggling to see, who actually got the police investigation involved in the first place.

 

Good reading, but would much rather see a court case on the administration purchased, will that ever happen?

[Niemi]

www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=150&a=do-not-fund-the-scottish-press

 

the SMSM are out to get them apparently. Discuss.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Niemi

[Jamboelite]

Is it a good piece because it fits your interpretation of events or because it's been written by one of your Celtic minded friends ?

 

So far we have learnt little that was not already known from previous stories..... and the story above is just another puff piece hundreds could have written and have over the last few years.

This faith you have in those bloggers is amazing even when they have been 'outed' or 'tainted' which you choose to ignore.

Here comes chemical Ali with his nothing to see here speech.

 

Celtic Minded Check

Bloggers. Check

 

Just needed to say how all your comments are fact and everyone elses is fantasy and we would have had CJGJ bingo.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Jamboelite

[Jamboelite]

By the way it will be very disappointing if this gets thrown out early and we dont hear the full evidence.

[Phil D. Corners]

Can someone remind we what this court case is about?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=150&a=do-not-fund-the-scottish-press

 

the SMSM are out to get them apparently. Discuss.

 

Of course the Scottish Press are out to get them, exactly the same as the SFA are out to get them.

It's all a 'taig conspiracy' don't you know, no doubts aided and abetted by Celtic minded Hearts fans, indeed every man woman and child who is not one of them is against them (Well in their minds anyway).

[swavkav]

The best of this for me, is that one of their own, Donald Finlay, is ripping them apart, he knew/knows exactly what goes on in Snake Mountain.

 

I do wonder if he will be allowed to step in the Orange Order clubs from now on ;-)

[JJ1984]

The best of this for me, is that one of their own, Donald Finlay, is ripping them apart, he knew/knows exactly what goes on in Snake Mountain.

 

I do wonder if he will be allowed to step in the Orange Order clubs from now on ;-)

He will if he gets the case thrown out before the prosecution begin and whyte unveils a whole new load of the good stuff. Craig Whyte is an absolute hero.

[Niemi]

Of course the Scottish Press are out to get them, exactly the same as the SFA are out to get them.

It's all a 'taig conspiracy' don't you know, no doubts aided and abetted by Celtic minded Hearts fans, indeed every man woman and child who is not one of them is against them (Well in their minds anyway).

While I agree there's paranoia in their ranks, the lack of a full investigation of the horrific goings on at Celtic Boys Club and then what actions the club did or didn't take is curious to say the least. As is the SMSM's lack of coverage of it. I've only seen the BBC trying to get to the truth Edited May 5, 2017 by Niemi

[Tommy Brown]

Help me out here.

If the court finds Whyte guilty, what would the likely outcome be?

 

If found, not guilty.

Am I correct in saying, Murray will look like a bad guy, but all will just be brushed under the carpet with signs "nothing to see" and "no surrender".

 

I'm struggling to see, who actually got the police investigation involved in the first place.

 

Good reading, but would much rather see a court case on the administration purchased, will that ever happen?

 

 

Can someone remind we what this court case is about?

 

Can someone please answer

[Niemi]

Can someone please answer

If Whyte is found guilty the sale by Murray to Whyte will be declared null and void. Murray will once again own the club. Because it was the actions of Whyte that led to administration and then liquidation being commenced, the liquidation will be halted by the Court and all debts declared null and void. Whyte will need to pay compensation of ?20m which will become the transfer war chest next season.

 

Or, you could just Google it.

[swavkav]

If Whyte is found guilty the sale by Murray to Whyte will be declared null and void. Murray will once again own the club. Because it was the actions of Whyte that led to administration and then liquidation being commenced, the liquidation will be halted by the Court and all debts declared null and void. Whyte will need to pay compensation of ?20m which will become the transfer war chest next season.

 

Or, you could just Google it.

What if he is found not guilty though?

Will the PF chase SDM?

[Footballfirst]

Can someone please answer

 

I'd suggest reading the Indictment

 

https://www.byline.com/project/70/article/1598

 

[Niemi]

What if he is found not guilty though?

Will the PF chase SDM?

On what grounds?

[swavkav]

On what grounds?

I have no idea, hence why I am asking.

[Phil D. Corners]

I'd suggest reading the Indictment

 

https://www.byline.com/project/70/article/1598

 

As I understand it Whyte is charged for buying the clubs with funds he did not have?

[Niemi]

I have no idea, hence why I am asking.

Ok, well then... no would be my guess

[Hagar the Horrible]

So the outcomew of the agreement read out was that Whyte was not allowed to use the clubs assets as security...oops

 

but the debt at Ibrox was ?18m to Lloyds paid off, but another ?9.5m for playing staff H&S and the wee tax case.

 

plus he was to pump in ?5m per year for playing budgets.

 

The Lloyds debt would still exist just moved to Whyte, just that Whyte would have it covered and then at some future time dump it back on Rangers

[Hagar the Horrible]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 5m5 minutes ago

 

 

Agreement? says Murray Group retains the right to negotiate with HMRC a "Full and final settlement of the tax case" on behalf of Rangers.

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 4m4 minutes ago

 

 

Replying to @jamesdoleman

Also says Whyte cannot reach his own deal with HMRC over EBT issue without permission from Murray

 

This is the crown witness, what do you make of this

[...a bit disco]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  1m1 minute ago

More

McGill says Murray didn't want Whyte to be publicly "critical of his time at the club" agrees is "unusual" clause.

 

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  3m3 minutes ago

More

Agreement includes a "statement of non-embarrassment of each other"

[...a bit disco]

**** me!

 

John James not holding back here!

 

https://johnjamessite.com/

[jambovambo]

**** me!

 

John James not holding back here!

 

https://johnjamessite.com/

[buzzbomb1958]

Regan looks like a snidey wee creep at the best of times,should be nowhere near Scottish football

[DETTY29]

Looks like Whyte has signed up to all these clauses placed by MG but if had offered ?18.5m to clear the Lloyds od, with funds from whatever sources as long as they weren't money laundered, and MG knocked back, Lloyds would have told

 

1) The Rangers board - We take away your overdraft and you trade insolvently and risk being struck off as directors in the UK for 7 - 15 years.

 

2) Murray doesn't get his metals business back for ?1.

 

It's a case of who had duped who and whose business ethics are the worst.

Edited May 5, 2017 by DETTY29

[jambovambo]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 32s33 seconds ago

 

Findlay "Murray got to the point it had no assets?" McGill "Yes" Findlay "The club had to go"

[jambovambo]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 51s52 seconds ago

 

• Findlay asks about Dave King. McGill says he was still on the board at the time of sale "We'll certainly come back to that one" Findlay says

[...a bit disco]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  51s51 seconds ago

More

McGill "without European success the club could not be profitable "I could give you a very good example" Findlay "just answer my questions"

 

[...a bit disco]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  28s28 seconds ago

More

McGill agrees David Murray was a "generous benefactor" Findlay "The model of spending to get success failed"

[...a bit disco]

James Doleman? @jamesdoleman  2m2 minutes ago

More

Findlay "The Rangers directors wanted to keep spending?" McGill, "wanted to follow the traditional model" Findlay "But there was no money"