Hagar the Horrible Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Accorfing to the Daily Record article on Saturday...SDM said that even though hos own legal team expected admin, we are led to beleive it was never discussed and SDM was unaware, because he was no longer at the helm yet later on pre-pack admin was discussed as an option????? I think Findlay is using SDM and his arrogance as the main defence for Whyte, that its clear that SDM and his board caused the crash, and Whtye is the victim here by buying this dog with fleas, even if it was using the dogs own bone to buy the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Remember they've spent ?18m on that team already and they could spend double that amount and still not get anywhere near that Celtic team. No,they didn't. King phrased this very carefully - look at his exact words. He creates the impression , as intended , that that is what happened but the ?18 million is what King/The Concert Party has spent overall at Sevco. Little, if anything, of his money was spent on players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) What's this? All over Twitter it would seem. TheCoplandRoad.org? @CoplandRoadorg 2h2 hours agoMore Keith Jackson of the Daily Record was told on Friday of last week that he is no longer welcome at Auchenhowie or Ibrox. Edited May 1, 2017 by ...a bit disco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) I think Spprtsound tonight is going to be Kris Boyd going on about why it's critical that Scottish football needs a strong Rangers. It's only happening Kris with the same underhand goings on since the day Murray stepped through the doord at Ibrox. Edited May 1, 2017 by DETTY29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 One thing that jumped out at me from this afternoons evidence was that someone (presumably the ex chairman Alistair Johnson) extended the notice period on the then Chief Executive (Martin Bain)'s contract out to 39 months shortly before the deal with Whyte was done. I can't wait for this guy to be cross examined on why exactly there was the need for this as up until now he's had a pretty free ride from the media etc. This is as dodgy a deal as McCoist being in line for compensation if he didn't succeed Smith. I have to say Findlay's doing his job extremely well and kudos to James Doleman for the updates on twitter... I have only just noticed that Martin Bain is now CEO at Sunderland. I wonder if he will be called to give evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) I have only just noticed that Martin Bain is now CEO at Sunderland. I wonder if he will be called to give evidence. Almost certainly. I'd like to hear him explain why Alastair Johnston authorised a change to his contract a couple of months before the takeover, so that he had to be given 39 months notice, should Whyte want to dispense with his services. SDM said he knew nothing about it and that his execs were on a maximum of 12 months notice. Edited May 1, 2017 by Footballfirst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 I have only just noticed that Martin Bain is now CEO at Sunderland. I wonder if he will be called to give evidence."Ex-male-model" Martin Bain, aye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 No,they didn't. King phrased this very carefully - look at his exact words. He creates the impression , as intended , that that is what happened but the ?18 million is what King/The Concert Party has spent overall at Sevco. Little, if anything, of his money was spent on players. Did think it was a bit much, I mean imagine spending millions on the likes of Clint Hill and Senderos, however it is sevco so anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swavkav Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Is there any proceedings today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Is there any proceedings today? James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago Craig Whyte arrives at court James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 4m4 minutes ago Defence advocate Donald Findlay arrives at court #WhyteTrial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 The RTC Blogger appears to have written a new piece today, this time about Keith Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Today's first witness is Ian Shanks who was the Lloyds Bank's relationship manager for the club at the time of the Whyte takeover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Think Jackson's been treated unfairly there. Not. Level5 fodder, it seems. Used as a deflection tactic to ease pressure on team and management after collapsing at the hands of sellick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Little interesting snippet there. Murray Group were trying to sell Rangers under the title 'Project Charlotte', remember the 'Charlotte Fakes' twitter account?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 That?s a great post FF. Its so true that any attack on any part of that club and even its felonious owners is an attack of the entity as a whole and their doctrines, any criticism must only be part of a Timmy agenda. SDM took the club to the precipice yet few dared speak up at the time (well none actually) , At the start it was clear Whyte was up to something, the rumours were rife about the family silver being sold off and no tax was being paid for nic/paye, but when questions the SMSM towed the party line by addressing its ok as you don?t need to pay tax while there is a dispute over it, but you will have to pay up eventually, nobody dared question! why would Whyte take over a club where there was a greater chance of being hit with a tax bill in excess of ?75m when even the wee tax case was life threatening???? I still don?t think keef went far enough? Even Radio Scotland never went near this when one of their own Billy Dodds had a dual contract and was part of the mechanism that led to the death of Rangers. Then there was Green with the CVA, every word in the printed media was verbatim from the top of the marble staircase, we will get a CVA even though page 1. Of the HMRC book states clearly Hector does not do deals. For god sake they went after Vlad over the pensions? Now King is at the Helm and even though King has dared to speak out finally over his villainy, history is repeating its self all over again. SDM still gets off scot free as though he still has naked photos of everybody in the media. Green and Whyte are now open to attack but only from within, King is still the current ruler on that particular white charger and as such the WATP mentality kicks in and although this one is just as bad as the rest, a few No Surrender chants and der-hun start to circle the wagons. Only foreign owners are to be ridiculed and attacked openly for being a wee bit of a Bond bad guy. Nothing wrong with good old honest home grown crooks. Rangers fans cannot tell friend from foe. Speak out in the media and you are publically ostracised, and double glazing salesmen work overtime. Even fans of other clubs well we are all clearly Tim sympathisers. Yet if any other football club had been treated that way apart from Celtic I would happy stand shoulder to shoulder with them, just like other clubs did with us when we were at our lowest ebb. Yet we were all treated with drive-by-name-calling. Now it will be interesting to see if there is still such a thing as a Press Union, as they all must have the same concerns over King, so they all in the SMSM must stand by Keef, but they won?t? which is why the written media is dying and the Rangers fans are letting their club die once again. Still it?s all somebody called Tim?s fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Little interesting snippet there. Murray Group were trying to sell Rangers under the title 'Project Charlotte', remember the 'Charlotte Fakes' twitter account?? Charlotte Square the Murray HQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 David Grier, who advised Whyte, worked for a company called MCR which later became Duff & Phelps. Hahaha One big scandal were the fee's paid to Duff & Phlaps - I didn't realise that most of these fee's were connected to liability insurance premiums and these were HUGE as it was such a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) David Grier, who advised Whyte, worked for a company called MCR which later became Duff & Phelps. Hahaha One big scandal were the fee's paid to Duff & Phlaps - I didn't realise that most of these fee's were connected to liability insurance premiums and these were HUGE as it was such a mess. Evidence also refers to Rangers having an 'interest rate hedge' which is basically normally a bet on interest rates staying high or low. These are/ were very controversial especially with Bank of Scotland allegedly putting companies out of business when interest rates dropped suddenly because charges mushroomed. Edited May 2, 2017 by Mikey1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 That?s a great post FF. Its so true that any attack on any part of that club and even its felonious owners is an attack of the entity as a whole and their doctrines, any criticism must only be part of a Timmy agenda. SDM took the club to the precipice yet few dared speak up at the time (well none actually) , At the start it was clear Whyte was up to something, the rumours were rife about the family silver being sold off and no tax was being paid for nic/paye, but when questions the SMSM towed the party line by addressing its ok as you don?t need to pay tax while there is a dispute over it, but you will have to pay up eventually, nobody dared question! why would Whyte take over a club where there was a greater chance of being hit with a tax bill in excess of ?75m when even the wee tax case was life threatening???? I still don?t think keef went far enough? Even Radio Scotland never went near this when one of their own Billy Dodds had a dual contract and was part of the mechanism that led to the death of Rangers. Then there was Green with the CVA, every word in the printed media was verbatim from the top of the marble staircase, we will get a CVA even though page 1. Of the HMRC book states clearly Hector does not do deals. For god sake they went after Vlad over the pensions? Now King is at the Helm and even though King has dared to speak out finally over his villainy, history is repeating its self all over again. SDM still gets off scot free as though he still has naked photos of everybody in the media. Green and Whyte are now open to attack but only from within, King is still the current ruler on that particular white charger and as such the WATP mentality kicks in and although this one is just as bad as the rest, a few No Surrender chants and der-hun start to circle the wagons. Only foreign owners are to be ridiculed and attacked openly for being a wee bit of a Bond bad guy. Nothing wrong with good old honest home grown crooks. Rangers fans cannot tell friend from foe. Speak out in the media and you are publically ostracised, and double glazing salesmen work overtime. Even fans of other clubs well we are all clearly Tim sympathisers. Yet if any other football club had been treated that way apart from Celtic I would happy stand shoulder to shoulder with them, just like other clubs did with us when we were at our lowest ebb. Yet we were all treated with drive-by-name-calling. Now it will be interesting to see if there is still such a thing as a Press Union, as they all must have the same concerns over King, so they all in the SMSM must stand by Keef, but they won?t? which is why the written media is dying and the Rangers fans are letting their club die once again. Still it?s all somebody called Tim?s fault! Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 "We have all sorts of documents that people thought would never see the light of day" Donald Finlay QC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 "We have all sorts of documents that people thought would never see the light of day" Donald Finlay QC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 "We have all sorts of documents that people thought would never see the light of day" Donald Finlay QC Murray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalstonjambo Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Evidence also refers to Rangers having an 'interest rate hedge' which is basically normally a bet on interest rates staying high or low. These are/ were very controversial especially with Bank of Scotland allegedly putting companies out of business when interest rates dropped suddenly because charges mushroomed. Not really. A hedge is a protection against the market moving against you. An interest rate speculation would be the bet. A hedge is basically insurance against something which would harm you. Almost every company that issues debt or has any type of financial exposure does these. The issue is pre the financial crisis there was no real regulation around how people were advised on taking out something like this. An interest rate hedge isn't controversial and is in fact prudent if you have any sort of outstanding debt or exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (Shanks is the guy from RFC's bankers ) James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 51s52 seconds ago Findlay "You are chucking Rangers overboard"? Shanks says that was the deal Findlay "Is the answer to my question yes"? Judge intervenes Shanks "That was not the bank's ongoing responsibility" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Andrew Black?Verified account @BBCAndrewBlack 8m8 minutes ago Mr Findlay says Rangers had same bank for years, but the minute the deal was done, the bank "quite brutally" cut the club off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Andrew Black?Verified account @BBCAndrewBlack 8m8 minutes ago Mr Findlay says Rangers had same bank for years, but the minute the deal was done, the bank "quite brutally" cut the club off. And at that exact point Rangers old and new became a dog with fleas. No proper bank, no credit, no NOMAD, thrown on the scrap heap, bizaar when you think at one point they had an ?80m turnover and reduced their debt to just ?18m notwithstanding the tax case....so why throw them under the bus, even after they got their ?18m back??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 1m1 minute ago Replying to @jamesdoleman Letter confirms overheads to be reduced by ?1.5m per year, portion of European revenue also to be used to reduce debt James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 4m4 minutes ago Replying to @jamesdoleman This was % of transfers that would be used to repay debt, witness confirms James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 6m6 minutes ago Letter says re transfer proceeds Above ?10m: 30% ?7m-?10m: 20% ?5m-?7m: 10% 0-?2m: 0% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 15m15 minutes ago Findlay asks if bank wanted a fee for early repayment of debt? Shanks "I do not recall anything about a fee' Findlay "Was it contemplated"? James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 15m15 minutes ago Shanks says no discussion of fee while he was involved James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 14m14 minutes ago Shanks confirms bank had "no interest" in minority shareholders being "wiped out' Just to add to that...Skanks says no i dont think so but I have heard of the Gorgie Aggro!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 1m Findlay "Was there any pressure from the bank to complete the Craig Whyte deal"? Shanks says bank would "have to consider bank arrangement James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 1m1 minute ago Replying to @jamesdoleman Findlay "Pressure"? Shanks "Leverage" Findlay "That's a politician's answer" Shanks "A negotiation tactic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Findlay to me is still catering to the olde and new Rangers/Newco masses by trying to make the bank look guilty of helping them go under. My take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 The bank have made it clear they wanted out of Rangers thats for sure, once they got their money provided it was legal, they were long gone. If the Whyte deasl was not done the bank was not going to cover the tax debt that part is clear, so where would SDM go appart from the obvious????? the A word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Liar! James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 8m 8 minutes agoMore Replying to @jamesdoleman Findlay asks "in your close working relationship with Murray no-one mentioned the tax case" Shanks replies "correct" 4 replies .3 retweets5 likes Reply 4 Retweet 3 Like 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 5m5 minutes ago Email continues, if "Craig" pulled out of deal it would "leave us in very exposed position.... administration as a very real possibility" but but but Admin was not discussed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 so the bank only applied leverage if the Whyte deal did not go though? hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) And why give Aberdeen, Dundee United and Hibs a modicum of leeway / support when on the face of it, their finances were worse when looking at assets / income/ turnover etc? Rangers a toxic brand - edit and unrealistic customer base? And at that exact point Rangers old and new became a dog with fleas. No proper bank, no credit, no NOMAD, thrown on the scrap heap, bizaar when you think at one point they had an ?80m turnover and reduced their debt to just ?18m notwithstanding the tax case....so why throw them under the bus, even after they got their ?18m back??? Edited May 2, 2017 by DETTY29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Bain wanted ?1m to do "walking away", Bank says err Naw, no contract there matey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) @jamesdoleman 2m2 minutes ago Email "If Craig does not put in the cash he will be hounded by the fans, not Murray" Findlay "what does that have to do with the bank?" Edited May 2, 2017 by DETTY29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 So the next time Rangers fans sing "No one likes us, we dont care" well that part is now true, LLoyds officialy dont care about Rangers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 @jamesdoleman 2m2 minutes ago Email "If Craig does not put in the cash he will be hounded by the fans, not Murray" Findlay "what does that have to do with the bank?" This is the one that I like from Doleman. I wonder who the journo's were. Email continues "Been in contact with a few selected journalists yesterday.. attention turned away from BMG board" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 This is the one that I like from Doleman. I wonder who the journo's were. Email continues "Been in contact with a few selected journalists yesterday.. attention turned away from BMG board" 2 things I am getting from this is the amount of tame journalists that are able to apply erhmmm "leverage" thanks mr Shanks for that word? and that Whyte must have printed off every email from everybody to everybody regarding the demise of the club, once he got the keys to the kingdom??? its as though he was preparing for a bite in the erchie.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) @jamesdoleman 3m3 minutes ago Next Lloyd's suggests suddenly withdrawal of overdraft so chairman Alistair Johnson might be banned as a director for trading insolvently. ----------------------------------------------------------- And to think Lloyds were sort of known and to extent criticised in the early 2000's as little more than a non risk taking soft touch retail bank. Then left a pile of rubbish by Gordon Brown that they have pretty much turned around. Edited May 2, 2017 by DETTY29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 @jamesdoleman 3m3 minutes ago Next Lloyd's suggests suddenly withdrawal of overdraft so chairman Alistair Johnson might be banned as a director for trading insolvently. ----------------------------------------------------------- And to think Lloyds were sort of known and to extent criticised in the early 2000's as little more than a non risk taking soft touch retail bank. Then left a pile of rubbish by Gordon Brown that they have pretty much turned around. I'm no fan of GB, but it's hardly his fault that Lloyds needed rescued by the taxpayer, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Didn't he force HBOS on to them? I'm no fan of GB, but it's hardly his fault that Lloyds needed rescued by the taxpayer, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Didn't he force HBOS on to them? Lehmans had been allowed to go bust in US. And it wasn't deemed to be a good call. Whether Brown etc knew exactly how toxic the Bank of Scotland was due to risky mortgage lending is uncertain. Whether Lloyds was misled by the government basically. Think there are still some shareholder court cases pending which like this trial could bring out the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 And at that exact point Rangers old and new became a dog with fleas. No proper bank, no credit, no NOMAD, thrown on the scrap heap, bizaar when you think at one point they had an ?80m turnover and reduced their debt to just ?18m notwithstanding the tax case....so why throw them under the bus, even after they got their ?18m back??? Doomsday scenario looming for Rangers RIP. If the big tax bill is proven as payable then Rangers can only go one way - liquidation. There never could be admin for a tax debt - HMRC would never have agreed. And don't forget , Rangers were already guilty of tax evasion with the wee tax case. Llloyds could see which way the wind was blowing. So could SDM - hence the PDQ sale to Whytey. SDM didn't want to be at the wheel when the ship went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Lehmans had been allowed to go bust in US. And it wasn't deemed to be a good call. Whether Brown etc knew exactly how toxic the Bank of Scotland was due to risky mortgage lending is uncertain. Whether Lloyds was misled by the government basically. Think there are still some shareholder court cases pending which like this trial could bring out the truth. I worked for ltsb before the crash, their secured lending at least was farcical, lending too much to people who couldn't afford it, and lending up to 120% of the value of secured property. Lloyds got into trouble because of Lloyds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Didn't he force HBOS on to them? Oh, possibly, memory not quite what it used to be, although I would be surprised Lloyds would simply do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Lehmans had been allowed to go bust in US. And it wasn't deemed to be a good call. Whether Brown etc knew exactly how toxic the Bank of Scotland was due to risky mortgage lending is uncertain. Whether Lloyds was misled by the government basically. Think there are still some shareholder court cases pending which like this trial could bring out the truth. I suppose there is two sides that have been put forward, one is that the government put pressure on Lloyds to intervene and do the merger with the other that Gordon Brown helped make sure it went through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 If the verdict is that SDM sold the club whilst he knew the end was near then what would the repercussions be here? Would SDM owe CW a shedload of compensation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Although we all hope there will be a long trial there is the chance the case could collapse fairly early. Presume the key evidence on Whyte will be presented by prosecution soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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