The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[DETTY29]

Rangers were facing winding up orders over the wee tax case and unpaid VAT. They also had a deficit of expenditure over revenue of ?10m. Without a credit line administration was inevitable.

Lloyds were seeking quick sale of Rangers.

 

Johnston tried to get 30mill removed from RFC books to MG. I think it was 'what's another 30 mill in top of 750m' line from Johnston.

 

By the end Muir agreed a ?1m season debt reduction with Rangers still up for sale.

 

To meet even that Coisty needed Champions League. Ouch. (Noting takeover had completed)

 

The sale was ?6m with wee tax paid by Murray, ?1 if not.

 

Lloyds weren't stumping up another penny; unlikely other banks would take the debt on.

 

Rangers couldn't risk not winning the title and being semi successful in Europe.*

 

Murray needed to invest personally however

 

Murray never put any personal wealth into Rangers, just a ?6m EBT out.

 

* Admittedly a Hutton, Cuellar, Boumsong (Souness has left the football management building mind) would help. But no CL football to get price up?

Edited November 14, 2015 by DETTY29

[Paolo]

BBC Scotland continue to perpetuate the lie that Newco is a Phoenix company that has history before 2012.

 

The piece on Celtic's view on Ranger's use of EBTs opens with the following sentence:

 

"Last week, Revenue and Customs won a judgement that Rangers' former parent company's use of employee benefit trusts from 2001-2010 broke tax rules."

 

Former parent company???

If BBC Scotland are doing this, I hope HMRC are taking note.

[Tasavallan]

Rangers should never have went into administration. Whyte put Rangers into administration deliberately, and then the corruption of Duff and Phelps meant Rangers were never going to achieve a CVA anyway. This is all still subject to a criminal investigation. But my point being is that there is absolutely no comparison between the Hearts and Rangers situations.

 

Indeed Rangers did not need to go into Administration IF King, Murray and the other diehard supporters had put their hands in their pockets and bought the club from Whyte. But they were scared of the implications of the BTC and let the club go into admin hoping they could get it for pennies in the pound. Of course we all know what happened next.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Rangers were never going to achieve a CVA anyway. 

 

Partly because King didn't want Rangers to get a CVA. 

[Footballfirst]

Rangers should never have went into administration. Whyte put Rangers into administration deliberately, and then the corruption of Duff and Phelps meant Rangers were never going to achieve a CVA anyway. This is all still subject to a criminal investigation. But my point being is that there is absolutely no comparison between the Hearts and Rangers situations. 

 

I think your post crosses the line of what can be safely be written without the risk of being in contempt of court while criminal proceedings are ongoing. What you assert as fact will most likely be debated in court.  

[Dutchmul]

As per usual in scotland, the media are spinning frantically to deflect from the real issue to try and make sevco look less guilty and it appears to be working.

 

The issue around the ebt's is not about debt, it's not about spending more than you can afford, it's that the players were(under the sfa rules which applied at the time) not registered correctly and therefore were ineligible to play, this was due to the side letters surrounding remuneration paid to players via ebt's not being disclosed to the sfa. Look at what happened to spartans in 2011, they were kicked out of the scottish cup for fielding 1 player who was ineligible because they had submitted the registration paperwork and missed out a date on it.

 

the lns enquiry covered this and that was why rangers were fined 250k + 150k costs(and which was due to be paid by sevco but never has), because they broke the rules, the lns enquiry was very flawed and had very narrow terms of reference, there is also the charge that campbell ogilvie may have lied when he gave evidence to it.

 

Anything else which is being used to drag other clubs into this debate is simply spin and deflection, lots of clubs spend more than they can afford, lots of clubs have debt which has been reduced or eliminated via restructuring(aberdeen, d utd, hubz) other clubs have gone into administration because they couldn't service their debt but that is not breaking the sfa's rules, incorrect player registration does.

 

Will anything come of this, I don't know, what I do know is that over the coming months, the sfa and some members of the spfl who were previously involved with the spl will have some difficult questions to answer as a lot of information will come out at the forthcoming court cases, none of which will make them look good. 

 

But please stop falling for the smsm bullshit and spin, the issue is player registration.

[Footballfirst]

Despite the coverage it has received, I think King's statement was primarily aimed, not at the rest of Scottish football, but at the loudest (and lowest) common denominator in the Rangers support, i.e. the neanderthals in their support who espouse the WATP message and the "everybody hates us" mentality.

 

The tone of the statement comes across as something that may have come from Chris Graham rather than Dave King himself.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

As per usual in scotland, the media are spinning frantically to deflect from the real issue to try and make sevco look less guilty and it appears to be working.

 

The issue around the ebt's is not about debt, it's not about spending more than you can afford, it's that the players were(under the sfa rules which applied at the time) not registered correctly and therefore were ineligible to play, this was due to the side letters surrounding remuneration paid to players via ebt's not being disclosed to the sfa. Look at what happened to spartans in 2011, they were kicked out of the scottish cup for fielding 1 player who was ineligible because they had submitted the registration paperwork and missed out a date on it.

 

the lns enquiry covered this and that was why rangers were fined 250k + 150k costs(and which was due to be paid by sevco but never has), because they broke the rules, the lns enquiry was very flawed and had very narrow terms of reference, there is also the charge that campbell ogilvie may have lied when he gave evidence to it.

 

Anything else which is being used to drag other clubs into this debate is simply spin and deflection, lots of clubs spend more than they can afford, lots of clubs have debt which has been reduced or eliminated via restructuring(aberdeen, d utd, hubz) other clubs have gone into administration because they couldn't service their debt but that is not breaking the sfa's rules, incorrect player registration does.

 

Will anything come of this, I don't know, what I do know is that over the coming months, the sfa and some members of the spfl who were previously involved with the spl will have some difficult questions to answer as a lot of information will come out at the forthcoming court cases, none of which will make them look good. 

 

But please stop falling for the smsm bullshit and spin, the issue is player registration.

 

Well said.

 

Some folk say nothing will get done, well nothing will get done if folk fall for the spin and deflection desperately being spun by the media to muddy the waters in the hope that it deflects from Rangers' wrong doing and thus nothing will get done. 

Some folks go on about how much they dislike the media and certain newspapers in particular but seem all to ready to believe the crap that is written in them.

 

The Scottish media have an agenda to push and part of that agenda is to protect Rangers at all costs, please don't fall for it.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

I felt more cheated by officials during the EBT era than by anything the old Rangers fielded in their line-up.

Might have had something to do with the fact, like everyone else, you were unaware at the time that they were fielding ineligible players! Imagine just how cheated you would have felt if you'd known, what we all know now, at the time it was happening!

[Mysterion]

The tone of the statement comes across as something that may have come from Chris Graham rather than Dave King himself.

Graham has hinted he wrote it on Twitter.

 

One thing is for sure - Traynor/Level5 did not.

[alicante jambo]

Who's forgetting like? And what relevance does that have to the question of rangers' cheating?

Seems some hearts fans take delight in reminding us smithee.

[i wish jj was my dad]

Pretty much how I feel, this whole episode must show that the people running our game turned a blind eye to all that was going on at Rangers. Not that interested in titles being stripped as Rangers have other problems which will either at best kill them off completely or plague them for years at worst. Time for massive change to our game at the top and get proper administators in who will act and make decisions based on what's good for all member clubs.

This.

 

I really hope that questions are being asked of the GFA/SPFL behind closed doors.  Something seems to have spooked Mr Liar.   Clearing out their pals at the GFA and re-inventing the model with one that serves all its memberscould be his tipping point.

[Dutchmul]

The clubs are the only bodies that can hold the SFA to account. As far as I can tell there is no appetite to revisit LNS.

 

Not true, the sfa are bound by the same laws as everyone else, they will be exposed in the multiple court cases coming up, nowhere to hide when you are in a court of law and asked direct questions, whether the information that comes out in these court cases is actually used to hold individuals and organisations to account is a different matter but they wont be able to hide what they have done over the last 3 and half years in relation to sevco and rangers.

 

The case that ashley has brought requesting a judicial review of the king fit and proper decision will be particularly interesting.

 

One other thing to take into consideration re the sfa, they are in receipt of public money from the scottish government, if corruption/rule bending/breaking is confirmed, the scottish parliament may well get involved.

[Diadora Van Basten]

BBC Scotland continue to perpetuate the lie that Newco is a Phoenix company that has history before 2012.

 

The piece on Celtic's view on Ranger's use of EBTs opens with the following sentence:

 

"Last week, Revenue and Customs won a judgement that Rangers' former parent company's use of employee benefit trusts from 2001-2010 broke tax rules."

 

Former parent company???

What an embarrassment of an organisation.

[Sidsnot]

They were the exact same when Charles Green 'stood up' to everyone in Rangers' way.

How did that work out for them?

The courtroom.

[TriggersBroom]

Rangers were facing winding up orders over the wee tax case and unpaid VAT. They also had a deficit of expenditure over revenue of ?10m. Without a credit line administration was inevitable.

The unpaid VAT was a consequence of Whyte's illegal purchase of Rangers. He took over Rangers with absolutely no intention of running them legitimately. The ?10M annual deficit was a big concern for sure, but in the 3 seasons or so preceding Whyte's takeover, Rangers reduced their debt from around ?30M to ?18M. It was a difficult situation but it was manageable. The biggest concern pre-Whyte was 'The Big Tax Case', and even now, 4/5 years later it still hasn't gone away. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Might have had something to do with the fact, like everyone else, you were unaware at the time that they were fielding ineligible players! Imagine just how cheated you would have felt if you'd known, what we all know now, at the time it was happening!

No. Having witnessed Andy Davis at first hand, nothing will ever surpass that.

[TriggersBroom]

Might have had something to do with the fact, like everyone else, you were unaware at the time that they were fielding ineligible players! Imagine just how cheated you would have felt if you'd known, what we all know now, at the time it was happening!

The players weren't ineligible though. They were being paid money through a loophole in the rules. It wasn't illegal. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no tax or accountancy expert), but the EBT was and still is a legal system. The findings from last week are just that the payments made through an EBT are subject to tax.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

The players weren't ineligible though. They were being paid money through a loophole in the rules. It wasn't illegal. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no tax or accountancy expert), but the EBT was and still is a legal system. The findings from last week are just that the payments made through an EBT are subject to tax.

Yes they were ineligible, under the rules details of all contractual payments are required to be submitted. The EBT's were not disclosed so the players were ineligible to play.

[jambogemz]

Yes they were ineligible, under the rules details of all contractual payments are required to be submitted. The EBT's were not disclosed so the players were ineligible to play.

Exactly, it's hardly difficult to understand.

[Unknown user]

The players weren't ineligible though. They were being paid money through a loophole in the rules. It wasn't illegal.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no tax or accountancy expert), but the EBT was and still is a legal system. The findings from last week are just that the payments made through an EBT are subject to tax.

It's not a ruling from last week that means tax is due, tax was always due for earnings, even if paid through EBTs.

 

Rangers were just pretending that it wasn't earnings, hiding and then criminally shredding the side letters.

 

So in reality, for the players in question, not all documents relating to their employment were submitted and they therefore didn't meet eligibility requirements.

 

I think its fair to say those players should be deemed ineligible

[lost in space]

The players weren't ineligible though. They were being paid money through a loophole in the rules. It wasn't illegal. 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no tax or accountancy expert), but the EBT was and still is a legal system. The findings from last week are just that the payments made through an EBT are subject to tax.

I also am no expert but I would say the EBT players were ineligible as they were not properly registered - because of the 'side letters'.

[stirlingshirejambo]

The players weren't ineligible though. They were being paid money through a loophole in the rules. It wasn't illegal.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no tax or accountancy expert), but the EBT was and still is a legal system. The findings from last week are just that the payments made through an EBT are subject to tax.

Surely non disclosure of side letters to deliberately deceive the authorities and the fine for this surely suggests more than a loophole!!!!

[Unknown user]

So we're all agreed!

[TriggersBroom]

I think your post crosses the line of what can be safely be written without the risk of being in contempt of court while criminal proceedings are ongoing. What you assert as fact will most likely be debated in court.  

Fair point, FF. I'll not comment anymore on it. 

 

Despite the coverage it has received, I think King's statement was primarily aimed, not at the rest of Scottish football, but at the loudest (and lowest) common denominator in the Rangers support, i.e. the neanderthals in their support who espouse the WATP message and the "everybody hates us" mentality.

 

The tone of the statement comes across as something that may have come from Chris Graham rather than Dave King himself.

I don't see myself as a neanderthal, but I definitely believe that everyone hates us. Scottish football fans aren't exactly subtle in expressing their hatred of Rangers and their fans. Even on this forum, I think it's a good forum, but the amount of times I see Rangers fans referred to as scum/orcs/bigots/zombies/social cancer/neanderthals etc etc etc. 

 

The King statement definitely had quite an aggressive/defensive/assertive tone about it, but I think it needed to be said. And I do agree it sounds much more like something Chris Graham would say as he seems much more confrontational than King.

[Unknown user]

Fair point, FF. I'll not comment anymore on it.

 

I don't see myself as a neanderthal, but I definitely believe that everyone hates us. Scottish football fans aren't exactly subtle in expressing their hatred of Rangers and their fans. Even on this forum, I think it's a good forum, but the amount of times I see Rangers fans referred to as scum/orcs/bigots/zombies/social cancer/neanderthals etc etc etc.

 

The King statement definitely had quite an aggressive/defensive/assertive tone about it, but I think it needed to be said. And I do agree it sounds much more like something Chris Graham would say as he seems much more confrontational than King.

I don't think everyone does hate rangers, although many do.

 

I do think rangers fans used to think they were loved by others, or at least liked by proddies, and reality has hit them hard- only rangers care about rangers

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

No. Having witnessed Andy Davis at first hand, nothing will ever surpass tha

I was there too, and it had a profound effect on me, so much so that I decided there and then not to renew my season ticket, as I'd realised that there was now no doubt that the game was rigged to ensure continued dominance of the Old Firm! And that, no matter how much money Romanov was prepared to put into the club in a bid to win the SPL, the hand of the GFA would ensure that one of their own two club's would always win the league. The coverage the next day by the MSM was almost as bad, turning the cheating by Davis/Rangers over Hearts into cheating over Celtic in Rangers' bid to win the title. Hearts, as with every other non-OF club, were an irrelevance!

 

However, if I'd known then that RFC were paying their players in a manner that required the players to be improperly registered, I'd have felt much more 'cheated' and angry. What's more, that cheating was done by Rangers alone (though perhaps with some connivance from the GFA), and not by individuals with no official connections to the club. While the Rangers team of that day (well night) were happy to glory in the cheating of their tame match officials, they (the team/club) had no direct influence over what might happen. The EBTs were theirs alone, so their cheating in their use was far, far greater than the advantage gained from the dishonesty of match officials.

 

Regardless, the combined effect of biased match officials and EBTs leads to a level of cheating far greater than any ever uncovered in British sport!

 

For the record, the following season I didn't renew my season ticket - for the first time in 10 years, though did buy tickets for most home matches. I probably would have renewed it eventually, but my circumstances changed within a year and I now live in Derbyshire.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The unpaid VAT was a consequence of Whyte's illegal purchase of Rangers. He took over Rangers with absolutely no intention of running them legitimately. The ?10M annual deficit was a big concern for sure, but in the 3 seasons or so preceding Whyte's takeover, Rangers reduced their debt from around ?30M to ?18M. It was a difficult situation but it was manageable. The biggest concern pre-Whyte was 'The Big Tax Case', and even now, 4/5 years later it still hasn't gone away. 

 

Trigger, a court of law will decide what Mr. Whyte did or didn't do in respect of his time in charge of Rangers.

As this matter is currently being dealt with through the courts I would think it prudent not to make accusations about Mr. Whyte, I wouldn't want either you or this forum to fall foul of the law. 

 

As for the reduction of debt, that reduction was only done because of Donald Muir whom Lloyds Bank had placed on the Rangers board to make sure that there was a reduction of the debt owed by Rangers to Lloyds Bank. If Lloyds hadn't taken over HBoS then it could be argued that the debt wouldn't have reduced but may very well have increased.  

[Jammy T]

can the whataboutery crew get their heads around something

 

what rangers DID was illegal AT THE TIME. It hasn't just become illegal, it has just been proven to be illegal, it always was.

[stevie1874]

Fair point, FF. I'll not comment anymore on it.

 

I don't see myself as a neanderthal, but I definitely believe that everyone hates us. Scottish football fans aren't exactly subtle in expressing their hatred of Rangers and their fans. Even on this forum, I think it's a good forum, but the amount of times I see Rangers fans referred to as scum/orcs/bigots/zombies/social cancer/neanderthals etc etc etc.

 

The King statement definitely had quite an aggressive/defensive/assertive tone about it, but I think it needed to be said. And I do agree it sounds much more like something Chris Graham would say as he seems much more confrontational than King.

If you went on any teams forum outside the old firm, Rangers & Celtic's supporters are really not well liked. Try attending a game at Tynecastle in the home end and listen to the rubbish spouting from the away support and you'd soon realise why your support are referred to in derogatory terms.

[Unknown user]

can the whataboutery crew get their heads around something

 

what rangers DID was illegal AT THE TIME. It hasn't just become illegal, it has just been proven to be illegal, it always was.

Exactly this

[TriggersBroom]

Trigger, a court of law will decide what Mr. Whyte did or didn't do in respect of his time in charge of Rangers.

As this matter is currently being dealt with through the courts I would think it prudent not to make accusations about Mr. Whyte, I wouldn't want either you or this forum to fall foul of the law. 

 

As for the reduction of debt, that reduction was only done because of Donald Muir whom Lloyds Bank had placed on the Rangers board to make sure that there was a reduction of the debt owed by Rangers to Lloyds Bank. If Lloyds hadn't taken over HBoS then it could be argued that the debt wouldn't have reduced but may very well have increased.  

That's fair, JJ. However, Ticketus did successfully sue Whyte over his purchase of Rangers.

[JamboJen]

The players weren't ineligible though. They were being paid money through a loophole in the rules. It wasn't illegal.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no tax or accountancy expert), but the EBT was and still is a legal system. The findings from last week are just that the payments made through an EBT are subject to tax.

Here's the thing. The "through a loophole in the rules" actually did mean "illegally". EBTs aren't for earnings. If you use them for earnings, which would be stupid as you'd get no benefit, you have to pay the appropriate taxes on them.

 

Rangers didn't, and tried to hide what they were. A court declared all of this illegal. The money going into the EBTs wasn't illegal. The not paying taxes on it was.

 

All contractual payments are to be registered with the SFA (as it was at the time). Rangers didn't register the EBTs because they were hiding everything about it. Even LNS found this to be against the footballing rules which is why they were fined.

 

Everything about the way Rangers used EBTs was illegal.

[Dutchmul]

The players weren't ineligible though. They were being paid money through a loophole in the rules. It wasn't illegal. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no tax or accountancy expert), but the EBT was and still is a legal system. The findings from last week are just that the payments made through an EBT are subject to tax.

 

Yes they were, the side letters were not disclosed to the sfa, ALL remunerations that players receive from their contracts are required to be advised to the sfa, the side letters were not therefore under sfa rules all the players that had ebt's  were all ineligible to play.

 

Remember that spartans were kicked out of the scottish cup because the registration for 1 player had a date missed on it and he was deemed ineligible to play.

 

EBT's are not illegal, they way that rangers ran them was as the payments were not discretionary but contractual as part of the players salary, that is why HMRC persued this as NI & PAYE was due on all the payments made through the ebt's.

 

WRT to what rangers fans are called, that is because of the behaviour of rangers fans, particularly in the last 4 years, the recent statements issued by your club do not help matters with their threatening tone. You reap what you sow.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

That's fair, JJ. However, Ticketus did successfully sue Whyte over his purchase of Rangers.

 

Whyte isn't in court this time being sued he is facing criminal charges and that is a completely different ball game.

[Unknown user]

That's fair, JJ. However, Ticketus did successfully sue Whyte over his purchase of Rangers.

More water muddying

 

Ticketus sued over Whyte fraudulently borrowing millions to pay rangers' debt.

 

Rangers cost a pound. He had a pound.

[Jodami]

Fair point, FF. I'll not comment anymore on it.

 

I don't see myself as a neanderthal, but I definitely believe that everyone hates us. Scottish football fans aren't exactly subtle in expressing their hatred of Rangers and their fans. Even on this forum, I think it's a good forum, but the amount of times I see Rangers fans referred to as scum/orcs/bigots/zombies/social cancer/neanderthals etc etc etc.

 

The King statement definitely had quite an aggressive/defensive/assertive tone about it, but I think it needed to be said. And I do agree it sounds much more like something Chris Graham would say as he seems much more confrontational than King.

Glad you stick around and post TB, it's a forum and it's good to hear all views.

For me there are a couple of things that I just cannot understand about Rangers fans. One is the continual sectarianism which in a largely secular society today just seems like a viewpoint plucked from history. The other is the head in the sand attitude of an element of the support who seem happy to follow anyone in the vain hope they are the new sugar daddy. Murray was never a sugar daddy, he just used his influence in Scottish business (masonic??) to obtain large overdrafts from banks and hide the truth in his network of companies.

A cold analysis of the facts is required by Rangers fans and an idea of what they see is a realistic future. Hearts and indeed your present manager have shown what can be done on a more limited budget but it is difficult to see the way out of the critical financial position you are currently in. If I was a Rangers fan I would be barely interested in the ebt issue but obsessed about the current leadership and financing. Despite some of the cretins that post on sites like the Bear's Den I know plenty of decent Rangers fans who understand exactly where you are. The issue is as a collective group I don't hear them making their voices heard about what the future of your club should look like.

[Dutchmul]

That's fair, JJ. However, Ticketus did successfully sue Whyte over his purchase of Rangers.

 

No they didn't, they sued him for lying in his application for a loan from them - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/former-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-loses-177m-court-case-with-ticketus-8567084.html

 

Again, rangers fans have absolutely no idea what is actually going on, stop reading the daily record and do some research. Ticketus couldn't care less about whyte buying rangers, they just wanted their money back.

[The Don]

Rangers cheated, that's not just my opinion or many people's opinions it's a proven fact in a court of law by 3 law lords. They cheated they have been found guilty their titles are tainted forever and should be stripped. An asterix beside every trophy they won in the time EBT's were used is the bare minimum these cheats should face.

 

As for this "Every football fan hates us pish" yes we hate you and yes the majority of Scottish football fans hate you and want you gone. You burnt all your bridges and any possible goodwill years ago, you showed no contrition or acceptance of guilt, you carried on with the shite WATP attitude you issued threats instead of building bridges and making friends.

 

Scottish football will never forget the horrible cheating vile institution that was Rangers and is Sevco.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hackney Hearts]

 

The King statement definitely had quite an aggressive/defensive/assertive tone about it, but I think it needed to be said. 

 

Try arrogant/bullying/threatening.

 

And really, just have a wee think - it was absolutely the last thing that needed to be said if you want to get everybody onside and forget about the cheating and "move on".

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

The players weren't ineligible though. They were being paid money through a loophole in the rules. It wasn't illegal. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no tax or accountancy expert), but the EBT was and still is a legal system. The findings from last week are just that the payments made through an EBT are subject to tax.

They were ineligible, the SPL rules were quite clear on that:

 

Rule D1.13: A Club must, as a condition of Registration and for a Player to be eligible to Play in Official Matches, deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements providing for payment, other than for reimbursement of expenses actually incurred, between that Club and Player, to the Secretary, within fourteen days of such Contract of Service or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or, as the case may be, extended.

 

You will see from the rule that there is no wriggle-room, the information must be provided. This is one of those rarities, too, it's not left to anyone's discretion as to whether or not the rule applied to Rangers! It doesn't refer to it as a condition of registration, but is quite a concise requirement of eligibility. It is an SPL rule, too, and is therefor not within the remit of Sandy Bryson of the SFA to find an excuse to ignore. It matters not whether or not the payments themselves were legal. It is crystal clear, though, that they, the  executed originals of all Contracts of Service and amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements providing for payment, must be delivered for the player(s) to be eligible to play in the SPL. There is absolutely no dispute that 'all other agreements providing for payment' were not delivered in accordance with Rule D1.13, therefor, under the SPL's rules, the players were not eligible. 

 

You might question why there was even the need for the LNS enquiry when such an unequivocal rule existed. You might also question how it could be that Sandy Bryson's evidence was considered ahead of the actual SPL rules! There were a lot of things about the LNS findings that should have been questioned by those in a position to get answers, or at least let the wider public know were going unanswered.

 

I remember reading, a month or so after the LNS decision was announced, that, as well as changing the start date of the enquiry's investigations to exclude the DOS scheme (of which illegality had already been accepted by the club), the SPL's original charge of playing ineligible players (under rule D1.13)  was amended, without announcement, to a charge of the players being improperly registered.

[Dutchmul]

One other fact about the ebt case that has been completely ignored by both the smsm and the rangers fans is that rangers ADMITTED liability for tax and ni payments on several of the ebts at the start of all this, the various appeals only covered the cases they did not admit liability for.

 

And thats before you factor in the DOS case(or wee tax case as it's known) which rangers lost and did not appeal.

[Dutchmul]

What astonishes me about triggersbroom and other rangers fans is their complete lack of knowledge about the tax cases and the purchase of assets by sevco and why they played in the 3rd division in 2012/13(hint - you weren't relegated), it's almost as if they live in a bubble.

 

All of the information is available if you want to do some searching but as the truth does not fit in with your "everybody hates us, it's a catholic conspiracy, all clubs are jealous of us" narrative, I don't expect you will search out the facts, and that is partly why no one likes rangers/sevco.

 

A classic example was the daily records reporting of thursdays court case re greens legal fees, green's barrister stated that sevco bought the assets of rangers, the players play for sevco, sevco pay the players, sevco own the stadium, sevco are not rangers. this was not challenged by rangers/sevco's barrister but that was not mentioned in the daily records reporting of the proceedings. Now why do you think that was?

[Riccarton3]

They were ineligible, the SPL rules were quite clear on that:

 

Rule D1.13: A Club must, as a condition of Registration and for a Player to be eligible to Play in Official Matches, deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements providing for payment, other than for reimbursement of expenses actually incurred, between that Club and Player, to the Secretary, within fourteen days of such Contract of Service or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or, as the case may be, extended.

 

You will see from the rule that there is no wriggle-room, the information must be provided. This is one of those rarities, too, it's not left to anyone's discretion as to whether or not the rule applied to Rangers! It doesn't refer to it as a condition of registration, but is quite a concise requirement of eligibility. It is an SPL rule, too, and is therefor not within the remit of Sandy Bryson of the SFA to find an excuse to ignore. It matters not whether or not the payments themselves were legal. It is crystal clear, though, that they, the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements providing for payment, must be delivered for the player(s) to be eligible to play in the SPL. There is absolutely no dispute that 'all other agreements providing for payment' were not delivered in accordance with Rule D1.13, therefor, under the SPL's rules, the players were not eligible.

 

You might question why there was even the need for the LNS enquiry when such an unequivocal rule existed. You might also question how it could be that Sandy Bryson's evidence was considered ahead of the actual SPL rules! There were a lot of things about the LNS findings that should have been questioned by those in a position to get answers, or at least let the wider public know were going unanswered.

 

I remember reading, a month or so after the LNS decision was announced, that, as well as changing the start date of the enquiry's investigations to exclude the DOS scheme (of which illegality had already been accepted by the club), the SPL's original charge of playing ineligible players (under rule D1.13) was amended, without announcement, to a charge of the players being improperly registered.

It's a pity the authorities can't be as creative in helping the game here, generally. Remind me of criminals whose creative skills could serve the government or business well if chanelled appropriately.

[SUTOL]

 I definitely believe that everyone hates us.

 

 

But you don't care...

 

 

[Jamdub]

I don't think everyone does hate rangers, although many do.

 

I do think rangers fans used to think they were loved by others, or at least liked by proddies, and reality has hit them hard- only rangers care about rangers

 

PHM do !!!!!

[BRAVEHEART1874]

Sevco fans all said but we were never found guilty of anything when the first cases happened wrong see 87120

Sevco fans all said we were proven innocent in a court of law and we should never have been liquidated wrong as it stands you have been found guilty in a higher court of law!

Now Sevco fans all just say EBT's are legal and deny they used them in any way wrongly!

And now jump on other fans forums no doubt helped by the daily Rangers debt deflection both trying to enforce their view.

Maybe they could state why they say the EBT's were indeed used 100 % legally and if so why did they not simply tell their governing bodies all about them ? King / trig/ sympathisers / daily Rangers / Anyone ? Or is this 87119 indeed yet another wrong to add to the list

Edited November 14, 2015 by BRAVEHEART1874

[heartstastic]

What astonishes me about triggersbroom and other rangers fans is their complete lack of knowledge about the tax cases and the purchase of assets by sevco and why they played in the 3rd division in 2012/13(hint - you weren't relegated), it's almost as if they live in a bubble.

 

The term 'Cognitive dissonance' springs to mind.

[Armageddon]

Where's PMGbliggahhrannn these days.

 

 

Missed his

 

 

Big spaced out

 

 

Ramblings, dear readers.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

What was TBs old kickback moniker?