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So was it someone on this site who done it?

 

Its disgusting who has ever done this and I hope they get their season ticket shreaded and banned for life and thrown in the jail and giving th beating of his life.

 

Sick ****ing paedo.

 

Gad, makes me sick.

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Well that is your opinion. Whilst 14 is a very young age to be doing these sort of things I personally would class what happened here as very very different to someone abusing an 8 year old.

 

We all agree that what he did was wrong. But the fact that the female in question had no problems with it and is actually wanting to get back with him after his release SHOULD mean people can see this for what it is.

 

IMO (From the facts I have heard) this was not a case of a person 'grooming a child'. Some may argue that for a 20 year old man to act in this way he could be classed as quite 'childlike' himself.

 

But we all have different opinions.

 

Whether or not she was "ok" with it is not the issue. However you look at it, its wrong. Wrong on a number of levels.

 

Your saying that this "consent" somewhat takes away from the severity of it. What would happen if it HAD been an 8 year old who happened to be "ok" with it all?? How would you feel about it then?

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Walter Payton
Where is the evidence that he was grooming anyone...and not that she was fully compliant about the whole thing?

 

Obviously the majority of the media will be leading the "hang him high" charge and shouldn't be taken as a 100% percent accurate source, but the Metro report yesterday definitely reported the girl as never even having kissed anybody. She might have been compliant, but Freeman himself admitted manipulating the relationship and working the situation until she had sex with him.

 

There's no excuse for a 20 year old to even allow the subejct of sex to even come up in a conversation with a non-related 13 year old (there are obvious professional exceptions), let alone flirting to the point physical meets are arranged. I've said in another post, the fact she was willing means nothing- if she wasn't, it wouldn't just be statutory rape charges he'd be looking at.

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Prince Buaben
So was it someone on this site who done it?

 

Its disgusting who has ever done this and I hope they get their season ticket shreaded and banned for life and thrown in the jail and giving th beating of his life.

 

Sick ****ing paedo.

 

Gad, makes me sick.

 

 

Slow News day in dumfries?;)

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boabyarsebiscuit
Where is the evidence that he was grooming anyone...and not that she was fully compliant about the whole thing?

 

Look just because you can't get a girlfriend, you shouldn't let that manifest itself as hatred towards all women, or in this case a female child.

 

With people like you around, I'm glad police monitor internet sites like this.

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I P Knightley
Well that is your opinion. Whilst 14 is a very young age to be doing these sort of things I personally would class what happened here as very very different to someone abusing an 8 year old.

 

We all agree that what he did was wrong. But the fact that the female in question had no problems with it and is actually wanting to get back with him after his release SHOULD mean people can see this for what it is.

 

IMO (From the facts I have heard) this was not a case of a person 'grooming a child'. Some may argue that for a 20 year old man to act in this way he could be classed as quite 'childlike' himself.

 

But we all have different opinions.

 

It's easy to distinguish between, say, 15 (where the stats would have us believe that many girls are sexually active) and 8. When you start to narrow the range, it becomes more difficult.

 

14 vs 8? 13 vs 9? 12 vs 10... ?

 

Whatever, if you're told it's wrong; you know it's wrong yet you do it, the consequence should be the same.

 

The bit in maroon may read to you that it's all a little bit more kosher (if that's what you intended to imply - apologies if not). To me, it reads that there's a young lass out there who is struggling to grow into adulthood and may, as a result of this guy's attentions, struggle for some time yet.

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Walter Payton
So was it someone on this site who done it?

 

Its disgusting who has ever done this and I hope they get their season ticket shreaded and banned for life and thrown in the jail and giving th beating of his life.

 

Sick ****ing paedo.

 

Gad, makes me sick.

 

Kearney, someday you'll really look stupid or cause real offence asking questions or making statements about threads when you've obviously not even read them. If you have read it, read it again until you actually assimilate the information.

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Whether she was compliant or not is irrelevant - it's still grooming. Even if she was totally infatuated with him (which I doubt, he was a fat ugly ****), he's still taking advantage of her immaturity to get her to meet him from the internet, so it was still grooming.

 

People are going on about "pervert, not paedophile" here, but that's a purely pedantic point which is really of no relevance. She was, by all accounts, 13 years old when he started grooming her - at 13, you're still very much a child, physically and mentally.

 

I remember one of the points several people made during the Rix debates was that a lot of girls under 16 look substantially older. This is true to an extent, but at 13? I doubt it. Either way, even when they have looked older, I've never met a girl that age who wasn't still a child in terms of behaviour.

 

The guy's a beast. Whether or not, in terms of semantics, he'd be classed as a paedophile as opposed to a pervert is irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

Nah.

 

Dont think the level of vitriol you use is neccesary.

 

He is just a silly young lad who did something stupid, and didnt really think about or understand the real level of the consequences.

 

She is the same, just younger.

 

They did something stupid.

They did something that has very serious repercusions.

He should have known better.

In fact he shouldnt have done it at all.

He'll have to deal with the consequences.

 

But did he groom someone? no. (well ive not read anywhere that he did)

 

Did he make an enormous mistake yes.

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Look just because you can't get a girlfriend, you shouldn't let that manifest itself as hatred towards all women, or in this case a female child.

 

With people like you around, I'm glad police monitor internet sites like this.

 

 

hahhhahahaa your funny.

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boabyarsebiscuit
But did he groom someone? no.

Evidence please?

 

We've had a "friend of the family" on this thread saying the opposite. How come you know better?

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Evidence please?

 

We've had a "friend of the family" on this thread saying the opposite. How come you know better?

 

While winding your neck in.

 

Feel free to read my edited post again.

 

(edited before your reply I might add)

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Walter Payton
Nah.

 

Dont think the level of vitriol you use is neccesary.

 

He is just a silly young lad who did something stupid, and didnt really think about or understand the real level of the consequences.

 

She is the same, just younger.

 

They did something stupid.

They did something that has very serious repercusions.

He should have known better.

In fact he shouldnt have done it at all.

He'll have to deal with the consequences.

 

But did he groom someone? no.

 

Did he make an enormous mistake yes.

 

What would you call grooming then Baps? If we're talking about ages of culpability, at what age would the culprit not be considered as a "silly young lad"? (I know you're not saying that that constitutes a defence).

 

I made mistakes when I was 20 that I'd hope with the maturity I've gained in the years since then I wouldn't make now that I'm 26. Having said that, 20 is old enough to take full responsibility for your actions and the impact they have on others. A 20 year old will not be as mature as a 30 year old, but in cases like this they should be no less culpable.

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What would you call grooming then Baps? If we're talking about ages of culpability, at what age would the culprit not be considered as a "silly young lad"? (I know you're not saying that that constitutes a defence).

 

I made mistakes when I was 20 that I'd hope with the maturity I've gained in the years since then I wouldn't make now that I'm 26. Having said that, 20 is old enough to take full responsibility for your actions and the impact they have on others. A 20 year old will not be as mature as a 30 year old, but in cases like this they should be no less culpable.

 

For a start, im not in anyway suggesting he was not culpable.

 

Nor making excuses for him.

 

He is old enough to know what he is doing, and therefore old enough to deal with the repercusions.

 

All Im saying was, on this thread and others, people are so moralistic and vitriolic about havign the guy strung up. When in fact, the girl (by all the accounts ive read or heard) was as much invovled as he.

 

Of course he being older, he has to be the one who is responsible.

 

But grooming suggest he co-erced her into something she normally would have been against or not have done.

 

Ive not seen that written anywhere.

 

From what i have seen, she was as compliant in it as he was.

 

However, my original posts asks where the evidence to the contrary is. Thats why I asked.

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Nah.

 

Dont think the level of vitriol you use is neccesary.

 

He is just a silly young lad who did something stupid, and didnt really think about or understand the real level of the consequences.

 

She is the same, just younger.

 

They did something stupid.

They did something that has very serious repercusions.

He should have known better.

In fact he shouldnt have done it at all.

He'll have to deal with the consequences.

 

But did he groom someone? no. (well ive not read anywhere that he did)

 

Did he make an enormous mistake yes.

 

At 20, he's hardly exactly that young and daft. It's not like he's only just over the age of consen himself. I'm 20 myself, and the thought of a 13 year old girl's just wrong on every level. They aren't in any way physically developed, and I don't see how anyone could say otherwise.

 

As for her, going by what's in the papers alone, it'd look as though what she'd done was daft - but then again, she's just a wee girl, a 20 year old's old enough to know better. What the guy who said he knew her earlier on in the thread was saying, though, casts doubt upon this and makes it look like very predatory behaviour on this Airdrie Jambo's part (although it's obviously unconfirmed).

 

As for the bit about grooming, I'm not quite sure of what you'd mean by the term - to me, regardless of whether or not she was consensual, chatting up a 13 year old girl (fully in the knowledge of her being 13) before convincing her to meet up with and have sex with him would count as grooming.

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But grooming suggest he co-erced her into something she normally would have been against or not have done.

 

You think she would "normally" have been at it in the public toilets do you?

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You think she would "normally" have been at it in the public toilets do you?

 

No, but are you assuming he co-erced her in..forced her in...or that she went in willingly of her own accord?

 

I dont know the answers.

 

Do you?

 

If you dont, then i fail to see how you can side with one option or the other?

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Walter Payton
For a start, im not in anyway suggesting he was not culpable.

 

Nor making excuses for him.

 

He is old enough to know what he is doing, and therefore old enough to deal with the repercusions.

 

All Im saying was, on this thread and others, people are so moralistic and vitriolic about havign the guy strung up. When in fact, the girl (by all the accounts ive read or heard) was as much invovled as he.

 

Of course he being older, he has to be the one who is responsible.

 

But grooming suggest he co-erced her into something she normally would have been against or not have done.

 

Ive not seen that written anywhere.

 

From what i have seen, she was as compliant in it as he was.

 

However, my original posts asks where the evidence to the contrary is. Thats why I asked.

 

As I said, the media are definitely reporting her as having been a virgin, and the metro reported that she'd never even kissed a guy.

 

It's not a question of compliance that people are outraged over- personally speaking, it's the fact that a 20 year old initiated a sexual relationship with a 13 year old that has provoked my reaction.

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As I said, the media are definitely reporting her as having been a virgin, and the metro reported that she'd never even kissed a guy.

 

It's not a question of compliance that people are outraged over- personally speaking, it's the fact that a 20 year old initiated a sexual relationship with a 13 year old that has provoked my reaction.

 

Her previous experience has little or no bearing on her recent exploits if she was fully compliant and happy to go along with things.

 

Thats the issue.

 

That and the fact he shoud simply have known better.

 

People will argue that at 14 she could not have really known what she was doing...(but neither could a virgin of any age)....but anyway, this then comes back to him taking the responsibility and NOT going ahead.

 

Which he didnt do.

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No, but are you assuming he co-erced her in..forced her in...or that she went in willingly of her own accord?

 

I dont know the answers.

 

Do you?

 

If you dont, then i fail to see how you can side with one option or the other?

 

Ok, you have a 20 year old guy. And you have a 14 year old virgin who's never even kissed someone.

 

Both end up having sex in a public toilet.

 

I know firmly which of the two I believe instigated that. I'm not saying he forced her - i'm saying he put the idea in to her head, an idea that otherwise wouldnt of been there.

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Ok, you have a 20 year old guy. And you have a 14 year old virgin who's never even kissed someone.

 

Both end up having sex in a public toilet.

 

I know firmly which of the two I believe instigated that. I'm not saying he forced her - i'm saying he put the idea in to her head, an idea that otherwise wouldnt of been there.

 

Again, you may be right.

 

Id probably think as you do.

 

But as you dont know for sure, you cant make conclusions or act on those assumptions. As they are not based in any fact.

 

Its also not strictly true to suggest 14 year old girls these days are not invovled or thinking about sex in anyway.

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boabyarsebiscuit
Its also not strictly true to suggest 14 year old girls these days are not invovled or thinking about sex in anyway.

How do you know this?

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Walter Payton
Her previous experience has little or no bearing on her recent exploits if she was fully compliant and happy to go along with things.

 

Thats the issue.

 

That and the fact he shoud simply have known better.

 

People will argue that at 14 she could not have really known what she was doing...(but neither could a virgin of any age)....but anyway, this then comes back to him taking the responsibility and NOT going ahead.

 

Which he didnt do.

 

We might be going on about different issues here Baps...

 

I was responding to your suggestion people were being overly "moralistic" or "vitriolic". Those wouldn't have been the words I would have chosen, but I think the reaction isn't because people doubt the girl's compliance, but because a 20 year old initiated a sexual relationship with a 13 year old. That alone, no matter how compliant she was, makes any outrage justifiable IMO.

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Ok, you have a 20 year old guy. And you have a 14 year old virgin who's never even kissed someone.

 

Both end up having sex in a public toilet.

 

I know firmly which of the two I believe instigated that. I'm not saying he forced her - i'm saying he put the idea in to her head, an idea that otherwise wouldnt of been there.

 

Dear dear. How are the pink fluffy clouds in this place that you live? :wavey:

 

If you truly believe that 14 year old girls are not having thoughts about having sex with 20 ( Or older ) year old men then you need to open your eyes.

 

PS. The above does not make what he did right. I just agree with DR Bapswent here that some of the chat about this guy is over the top. The guy had sex with a gril who was too young. No argument about that. But she was too young by a maximum of 24 months. Not a huge amount. I think some posters on this site have a picture of some guy dragging a baby into some toilets. Clearly what happened was far from this.

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We might be going on about different issues here Baps...

 

I was responding to your suggestion people were being overly "moralistic" or "vitriolic". Those wouldn't have been the words I would have chosen, but I think the reaction isn't because people doubt the girl's compliance, but because a 20 year old initiated a sexual relationship with a 13 year old. That alone, no matter how compliant she was, makes any outrage justifiable IMO.

 

All I am suggesting is that the wit***** attitude of some on here is totally cursade like, to be seen to jump on the politically correct bandwagon withuo actually thinking about what really happened. (im not suggesting you have doen this).

 

People are quick to be judge jury and executioner here.

 

The facts WE KNOW are he did wrong, very wrong. And he will be punished accordingly. no-one says otherwise.

 

its the surrounding issues that everyone else is goes mental about that are the problem. People are screaming and shouting beause they think they should, not because its right to do so.

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Again, you may be right.

 

Id probably think as you do.

 

But as you dont know for sure, you cant make conclusions or act on those assumptions. As they are not based in any fact.

 

Its also not strictly true to suggest 14 year old girls these days are not invovled or thinking about sex in anyway.

 

Wait until you grow up, get a girlfriend, Maybe have a daughter...If this (God Forbid) happens to her, Let's see what your feeling towards such people are then!! :mad:

 

Until then GTF and stop the wind up, This, believe it or Not is WRONG, The Guy's a F****** Peado and should, hopefully be Jailed and while in Jail, Should be beaten to **** at every opportunity...:Bazooka:

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Wait until you grow up, get a girlfriend, Maybe have a daughter...If this (God Forbid) happens to her, Let's see what your feeling towards such people are then!! :mad:

 

Until then GTF and stop the wind up, This, believe it or Not is WRONG, The Guy's a F****** Peado and should, hopefully be Jailed and while in Jail, Should be beaten to **** at every opportunity...:Bazooka:

 

I dont need to embarrass you here.

 

Youv done a rather good job of it yourself.

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I dont need to embarrass you here.

 

Youv done a rather good job of it yourself.

 

No point trying to groom me son, I'm male and 43!!

 

Try another site, You obviously don't think it's wrong!! :mad:

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No point trying to groom me son, I'm male and 43!!

 

Try another site, You obviously don't think it's wrong!! :mad:

 

Really.

 

Can you point out where I said that?

 

If your going to get into an argument with someone, at least make sure you have a clue what your on about when you do.

 

Otherwise you just come across as bitter and stupid.

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Walter Payton
All I am suggesting is that the wit***** attitude of some on here is totally cursade like, to be seen to jump on the politically correct bandwagon withuo actually thinking about what really happened. (im not suggesting you have doen this).

 

People are quick to be judge jury and executioner here.

 

The facts WE KNOW are he did wrong, very wrong. And he will be punished accordingly. no-one says otherwise.

 

its the surrounding issues that everyone else is goes mental about that are the problem. People are screaming and shouting beause they think they should, not because its right to do so.

 

Fair enough- I think your stance has been completely vindicated anyway since the time you wrote this post!

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Dear dear. How are the pink fluffy clouds in this place that you live? :wavey:

 

If you truly believe that 14 year old girls are not having thoughts about having sex with 20 ( Or older ) year old men then you need to open your eyes.

 

Dont try and patronise me pal.

 

I merely said that when a "never been kissed" 14 year old virgin ends up in a toilet with a 20 year old guy - theres no doubting who the instigator was.

 

Would she have been there without his intervention?

 

Would it have been her who suggested the act?

 

Was it her who asked to "take things to the next level"??

 

He influenced her. If it was as much her decision as it was his, then he wouldnt have had to ASK her to take it to the next level, it would have happened naturally.

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boabyarsebiscuit

God, they'll be having a field day on Hibs.net what with all the support the pervert is getting on here from the likes of Dr Burdswent and the guy who likes to tell everybody he's been to university.

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Totally disagree. Thirteen year olds are very much still children, regardless of whether or not they've got hair on their *****. At 20, it's not like he was only a couple of years older - if he was even, say, 16, I'd agree with you.

 

I don't understand how you can disagree on the basis of detail about her, and then counter that on the basis of his age...

 

A few centuries ago plenty of girls as young as 12 were being married off to old men. We later went through the prudishness of the Victorian era and nowadays people that age are accepted as children. Most normal, mature people over (as you say 16-17) would have no interest but I suspect we are discussing an individual who is not mature, and may as some claim, not be normal.

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No point trying to groom me son, I'm male and 43!!

 

Try another site, You obviously don't think it's wrong!! :mad:

 

Ridiculous, embarrassing comment.

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God, they'll be having a field day on Hibs.net what with all the support the pervert is getting on here from the likes of Dr Burdswent and the guy who likes to tell everybody he's been to university.

 

LOL

 

support.

 

priceless.

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We might be going on about different issues here Baps...

 

I was responding to your suggestion people were being overly "moralistic" or "vitriolic". Those wouldn't have been the words I would have chosen, but I think the reaction isn't because people doubt the girl's compliance, but because a 20 year old initiated a sexual relationship with a 13 year old. That alone, no matter how compliant she was, makes any outrage justifiable IMO.

 

She wasn't 13: she was 14. Still wrong? You bet. Should he be punished with a custodial sentence? Absolutely. Did he 'groom' her, initiate things, or persuade her to do something against her better judgement? Actually, there is no way we can possibly know.

 

The person in question is almost certainly a pretty sad individual, lacking in social skills and probably any kind of emotional maturity himself - but then, that probably means he needs help as much as punishment. But coppercrutch is again right: plenty of 14 year-old girls fantasise about sex with older men, plenty are already sexually active. Certainly not all - among males and females, a good number aren't actually ready for a sexual relationship until they're way past 16 - but it's patronising to argue that some are not.

 

Another question for anyone reading this. The age of consent in this country is 16 - yet the last I checked, the average age at which people lose their virginity is 15. On that basis, there must be plenty of people reading this who had sex before it was legally permissable - and of those, surely a good number did so with someone who was 16 or over. Does that make the person you had this relationship/experience with a 'beast'? If not, why not?

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Did he 'groom' her, initiate things, or persuade her to do something against her better judgement? Actually, there is no way we can possibly know.

 

He had to ask her to "take things to the next level".

 

That tells me all I need to know.

 

Of all the folk i've ever been with, i've not once had to ask to "take things to the next level". If both parties want it, it happens. If someone has to ask for it to happen, one party is at best, unsure.

 

If she initiated it, it certainly wouldnt be him asking to take things further would it.

 

The fact he asked her IS persuading her.

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She wasn't 13: she was 14. Still wrong? You bet. Should he be punished with a custodial sentence? Absolutely. Did he 'groom' her, initiate things, or persuade her to do something against her better judgement? Actually, there is no way we can possibly know.

 

The person in question is almost certainly a pretty sad individual, lacking in social skills and probably any kind of emotional maturity himself - but then, that probably means he needs help as much as punishment. But coppercrutch is again right: plenty of 14 year-old girls fantasise about sex with older men, plenty are already sexually active. Certainly not all - among males and females, a good number aren't actually ready for a sexual relationship until they're way past 16 - but it's patronising to argue that some are not.

 

Another question for anyone reading this. The age of consent in this country is 16 - yet the last I checked, the average age at which people lose their virginity is 15. On that basis, there must be plenty of people reading this who had sex before it was legally permissable - and of those, surely a good number did so with someone who was 16 or over. Does that make the person you had this relationship/experience with a 'beast'? If not, why not?

 

Pfft,

 

Shaun, that sort of sense will only have you labelled as a supporter of the 'beast'.

 

Its ok to eat puppies to, isnt it?

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He had to ask her to "take things to the next level".

 

That tells me all I need to know.

 

Of all the folk i've ever been with, i've not once had to ask to "take things to the next level". If both parties want it, it happens. If someone has to ask for it to happen, one party is at best, unsure.

 

If she initiated it, it certainly wouldnt be him asking to take things further would it.

 

The fact he asked her IS persuading her.

 

No

 

Its a question.

 

 

Hello sir, would you like to try some of our new cheese.

 

Stop persuading me to buy cheese.

 

STOP PERSUADING ME!!

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No

 

Its a question.

 

 

Hello sir, would you like to try some of our new cheese.

 

Stop persuading me to buy cheese.

 

STOP PERSUADING ME!!

 

I'm done with you. Muppet.

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Stop persuading me to be a muppet

 

STOP PERSUADING ME!!

 

Ok, i'll humour you.

 

Theres a difference between someone saying "would you like to try some cheese" and "I think you should have some of this cheese".

 

Pretty lame comparison none the less.

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She wasn't 13: she was 14. Still wrong? You bet. Should he be punished with a custodial sentence? Absolutely. Did he 'groom' her, initiate things, or persuade her to do something against her better judgement? Actually, there is no way we can possibly know.

 

The person in question is almost certainly a pretty sad individual, lacking in social skills and probably any kind of emotional maturity himself - but then, that probably means he needs help as much as punishment. But coppercrutch is again right: plenty of 14 year-old girls fantasise about sex with older men, plenty are already sexually active. Certainly not all - among males and females, a good number aren't actually ready for a sexual relationship until they're way past 16 - but it's patronising to argue that some are not.

 

Another question for anyone reading this. The age of consent in this country is 16 - yet the last I checked, the average age at which people lose their virginity is 15. On that basis, there must be plenty of people reading this who had sex before it was legally permissable - and of those, surely a good number did so with someone who was 16 or over. Does that make the person you had this relationship/experience with a 'beast'? If not, why not?

 

Shaun,

 

Returning to your teenage dilemma I have synthesised the knowledge of our greatest philosphers, arriving at the most ethical way to have dealt with your au pair: You should have engaged your eurostar and subsequently bribed the deviant for many years thereafter.

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Ok, i'll humour you.

 

Theres a difference between someone saying "would you like to try some cheese" and "I think you should have some of this cheese".

 

Pretty lame comparison none the less.

 

Hardly.

 

As one is a question.

 

One is a statment.

 

One allows the respondent to make their mind up.

 

The other states the speakers own thoughts and desires.

 

They are as different as muppets and cheese.

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boabyarsebiscuit
Ok, i'll humour you.

 

Theres a difference between someone saying "would you like to try some cheese" and "I think you should have some of this cheese".

 

Pretty lame comparison none the less.

 

Burdswent came onto an earlier version of JKB in tears one night and posted a hilarious thread about his burd dumping him and lamenting the fact he couldn't find and keep a woman. Oh how I wish I'd saved it, it was truly pathetic.

 

I reckon his inability to engage with the opposite sex is clouding his judgement on this issue. He needs to move on, and realise that not all women are "evil" as he sees it.

 

He's a disturbing individual.

 

Don't humour him, mate.

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Burdswent came onto an earlier version of JKB in tears one night and posted a hilarious thread about his burd dumping him and lamenting the fact he couldn't find and keep a woman. Oh how I wish I'd saved it, it was truly pathetic.

 

I reckon his inability to engage with the opposite sex is clouding his judgement on this issue. He needs to move on, and realise that not all women are "evil" as he sees it.

 

He's a disturbing individual.

 

Don't humour him, mate.

 

 

Oh the irony...talking about needing to move on.

 

Your a thing of beauty, really you are.

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