HCA

[Threedoorsdown]

Someone’s literally put your granny saying if you’ve nothing nice to say don’t say anything at all and turned it into a law?

 

I’m ****ed.

[If carlsberg did rivals...]

8 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

Forget sectarianism for a second...... If its the Edinburgh derby, would I get lifted for singing "all the hibees are gay"? Would my pal next to me get lifted for calling an Aberdeen fan a sheepsh*****  

 

At least one of those statements is factual, so surely you can't get lifted for telling the truth?

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

What don’t you like about unionist , female , self made billionaire JK Rowling ? 

 

Thought I made myself clear.

 

She's not in this to defend women. Don't hear much from you about the Rape Clause or Bedroom Tax. Or about Brian Spanner. What is it about him that you, and her, like?

 

Suffice to say, the law's been here a day and the usual attention seekers and obsessives and still frothing - and who would want to shut Rowling and Judy up? Keep them talking please. Thought police haven't arrived. Kickback hasn't been closed down. World is still turning. Israel still murdering innocents. Etc...

Edited April 2 by Gundermann

[Bazzas right boot]

Always surprised why the Glasgow free speech brigade stop at racism, but not bigotry. 

 

If it's about free speech then why are racist songs not OK, but fenian ones are?

 

Why are both not frowned upon by the likes of happy chappy Ally?

 

If it's about free speech, then why can't we all be racist,  sexist and homphobic, why are theses types red lines always at bigotry and sectarianism and that's when it's about free speech. 

 

Is it  because it suits them and their clubs, it also suits Doncaster etc as they need the bigotry and hate to promote the fixture and it's what these clubs market themselves on?

 

I ****ing hate them.

 

 

Edited April 2 by Bazzas right boot

[Spellczech]

it is a very bad idea to make laws that will not or cannot be enforced... 

[luckydug]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Yip.  People didn't generally get arrested for doing or saying previously illegal things so not much will change. It's Hearts and Minds that need changed. 

Correct .

It's just a pity that it's deemed necessary that we need a law to get people to act like decent human beings. 

[davemclaren]

Just now, luckydug said:

Correct .

It's just a pity that it's deemed necessary that we need a law to get people to act like decent human beings. 

Indeed. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just your typical Hun *****, never been fooled by the cheeky chappy crap and his repertoire when commentating is of an 10 yo. 

[John Findlay]

43 minutes ago, jamboozy said:

He’s basically saying the Huns can do whatever they want and no one will do a thing about it.🤷‍♂️

  Totally hate what those two clubs represent.

He is not wrong though.

The game at Ibrox this Sunday will pass with no-one getting arrested under this new law. Remember officially no Celtic supporters in attendance.

After the split the return fixture at Celtic Park, when officially there are no Sevco supporters in attendance, no-one will get arrested under this new law.

Imo the law is an ass.

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Always surprised why the Glasgow free speech brigade stop at racism, but not bigotry. 

 

If it's about free speech then why are racist song not OK, but fenian ones are?

 

Why are both not frowned upon by the likes of happy chappy Ally?

 

If it's about free speech, then why can't we all be racist,  sexist and homphobic, why are theses types red lines always at bigotry and sectarianism and that's when it's about free speech. 

 

Is it  because it suits them and their clubs, it also suits Doncaster etc as they need the bigotry and hate to promote the fixture and it's what these clubs market themselves on?

 

I ****ing hate them.

 

 

I would guess they would regard religion as a choice whereas colour is not?

 

The obvious problem with this counter is provided by the Jews - is Judaism a race or a religion? 

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

Forget sectarianism for a second...... If its the Edinburgh derby, would I get lifted for singing "all the hibees are gay"? Would my pal next to me get lifted for calling an Aberdeen fan a sheepsh*****  

 

Yes, have a look at your calendar it’s 2024 ffs. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Someone’s literally put your granny saying if you’ve nothing nice to say don’t say anything at all and turned it into a law?

 

I’m ****ed.

 

Where's you red line?

 

11 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

It won't be enforced, have a look at how old firm fans act every time they come to Tynecastle

 

It can be, racist songs and actions have largely disappeared and will now be called out by most fans, taken 20/ 30 years but we've moved on, even in football. 

 

Why can't we do the same with bigotry/ sectarianism.

 

The answer is all clubs United to eradicate racism and still are, however in Scotland at least 2 clubs need the bigotry and hate to continue so they are relevant and attract a large fan base.

 

Unfortunately folk fall for it and jump on the free speech bandwagon and seem to want to be allowed to spread religious and political hate.

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Correct .

It's just a pity that it's deemed necessary that we need a law to get people to act like decent human beings. 

I think most laws are an attempt to get people to do that, doesn’t usually work as most of us break the law every day somehow. 

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Thought I made myself clear.

 

She's not in this to defend women. Don't hear much from you about the Rape Clause or Bedroom Tax. Or about Brian Spanner. What is it about him that you, and her, like?

 

Suffice to say, the law's been here a day and the usual attention seekers and obsessives and still frothing - and who would want to shut Rowling and Judy up? Keep them talking please. Thought police haven't arrived. Kickback hasn't been closed down. World is still turning. Israel still murdering innocents. Etc...

womens safety from men is her "thing"

not cruel comments or clumsy humour.

I am not a free speech absolutist, but when speech is curtailed it must be only in extremis, not for upset/ offence/ rudeness.

It should not be used to silence legitimate debate.

Uniformity of opinion is not a good thing.

we should be free to speak and criticize and yes to offend

Villify the tories if you want because you disagree with them, or israel, that is fine and its important to do so.

though that means you must accept criticism of things you may believe and support.

you cannot criminalize certain beliefs to force compliance

[jimbojambo]

No doubt it's well intentioned but unenforceable. Bigotry has been an offence in Scotland for years and has only been prosecuted on a small number of occasions. Still not sure the difference between hurtful which is OK and hateful which isn't? 

[il Duce McTarkin]

Is Gundermann Owen Jones?

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I would guess they would regard religion as a choice whereas colour is not?

 

The obvious problem with this counter is provided by the Jews - is Judaism a race or a religion? 

 

Would be a point to argue on, although a convenient technicality.

No Idea on the jew thing tbh.

 

If racism can be slowly eradicated from football  the religious hate can be too,  there needs to be a will  from the government,  footballing bodies and the clubs.

 

In this case,  the clubs and cheerleaders  in the media seem to be against it and will go to extra measures to actually show case their hate, they will willingly and openly  defy it.

 

 

It's Scotlands shame, it's a cancer on our society. 

 

 

[brownkg]

1 hour ago, boag1874 said:

Just want to prefix this by saying I’m not looking to get into a debate about the wider hate crime bill, that’s more for the Shed, this is just an observation on a specific comment by Ally McCoist.

..............

That as ever on here was a forlorn hope at the best of times

[boag1874]

3 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Where's you red line?

 

 

It can be, racist songs and actions have largely disappeared and will now be called out by most fans, taken 20/ 30 years but we've moved on, even in football. 

 

Why can't we do the same with bigotry/ sectarianism.

 

The answer is all clubs United to eradicate racism and still are, however in Scotland at least 2 clubs need the bigotry and hate to continue so they are relevant and attract a large fan base.

 

Unfortunately folk fall for it and jump on the free speech bandwagon and seem to want to be allowed to spread religious and political hate.

 

 

 

This is spot on and it’s stupid statements like McCoist is making that don’t help matters - if a Rangers icon can go on the air and admit that he’ll be shouting sectarian abuse with nothing being done about it then what hope is there that any normal OF fan will think twice about it?

[boag1874]

Just now, brownkg said:

That as ever on here was a forlorn hope at the best of times

I know but I thought it’s worth mentioning 😅

[Polonia Gorgie]

6 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Where's you red line?

 

 

It can be, racist songs and actions have largely disappeared and will now be called out by most fans, taken 20/ 30 years but we've moved on, even in football. 

 

Why can't we do the same with bigotry/ sectarianism.

 

The answer is all clubs United to eradicate racism and still are, however in Scotland at least 2 clubs need the bigotry and hate to continue so they are relevant and attract a large fan base.

 

Unfortunately folk fall for it and jump on the free speech bandwagon and seem to want to be allowed to spread religious and political hate.

 

 

 

Scotland just seems to be different in that we can get rid of racism in football but getting rid of bigotry is all down to two clubs!! As sad as it is though if we can remove religious diversity from Scottish football we would probably end up with no money and TV revenue as our entire league is sold with the most hated derby in world football. I can't ever see religion being removed from Scottish football so long as rangers and celtic have a duopoly over the sfa

[Threedoorsdown]

10 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Where's you red line?

 

Isn’t part of the issue that it doesn’t matter what my red lines are?

 

History tells me censorship doesn’t work and of anything plays into the hands of people looking to profit from hate and being an arsehole in general. 
 

It’s better to show these people up as knuckledraggers and silly people than to give them some air of authenticity by outlawing what they have to say.

 

We have protected classes already and things you can say and can’t say which are pretty sensible. I think anything further is wrong and unproductive.

[Polonia Gorgie]

Rangers and Celtic profit from religion, religious divisions, bigotry and hatred, get rid of them then this new bill can go with them

[Shooter McGavin]

On the bill, do folk seriously think police are going to attend to reports that someone has been called a specky b******, fat ^^^^ or a coffin dodger?

Half of Scotland would be locked up

[Taffin]

35 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

Need to protect the people that identify as cats, dogs and unicorns 

 

But if that makes them actually cats and dogs...they then would be protected by existing legislation (just don't choose to be an XL bully!)

[kingantti1874]

The most laughable policy in the history of this laughable government.

 

Free speech is sacrosanct.  This is a policy that wouldn’t seem out of place in North Korea or some other totalitarian state.

 

[Polonia Gorgie]

3 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

On the bill, do folk seriously think police are going to attend to reports that someone has been called a specky b******, fat ^^^^ or a coffin dodger?

Half of Scotland would be locked up

I've got ginger hair........ Most my pals could be part of a chain gang for the crap I've had to listen to over the years 😔😂😂

[Polonia Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

But if that makes them actually cats and dogs...they then would be protected by existing legislation (just don't choose to be an XL bully!)

Would the SSPCA protect them?? I laughed out loud at the XL Bully 😂

[Doc Rob]

47 minutes ago, 1953 said:

I can't see how this new law is in anyway enforceable at a football match. It will be hate, sectairenism and abuse as normal next week. Some of our lot won't be any different the next time we play hibs or the OF. 

It isn’t. ScotGov tried to do something about it a few years ago with the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, which was flawed legislation, but was the first real attempt to actually address the problem. Unfortunately it was eventually repealed, which had little to do with the bill itself and much to

do with giving the SNP a bloody nose.

 

The behaviour will be ignored at the football, as it always has been before.

 

One thing that isn’t getting enough coverage is that this legislation mirrors almost identical legislation already in place in England and Wales. Only in Scotland is it being made out to be controversial.

[May one-six]

A Hun wallowing in hate? Who'd have thunk it. 

[Section Q]

Scotland is rife with religious hatred/bigotry. Can't see this new law making a dent in it.

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

Would the SSPCA protect them?? I laughed out loud at the XL Bully 😂

 

I would guess so...and if they didn't I'm assuming they'd be considered bigots these days.

 

I'm of course being flippant to make a point; but if I identify as a student it doesn't mean I get 10% in shops and access to the uni library, unless I am actually a student. If identifying as something truly makes you that thing, then 99 times out of 100 there's already legislation in place.

 

The issue here, imo, is that far too many people are complete dicks. If you hate people, keep it to yourself in my view. Trying to legislate on it in this way is just the SNP playing politics...and as usual these days making a complete hash of it.

 

The above is directed at you obviously, I'm now just letting my belly rumble on the topic 😂

Edited April 2 by Taffin

[Sherbet]

52 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

It won't be enforced, have a look at how old firm fans act every time they come to Tynecastle

Old firm fans are allowed to    we won't be

[Spellczech]

7 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

It isn’t. ScotGov tried to do something about it a few years ago with the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, which was flawed legislation, but was the first real attempt to actually address the problem. Unfortunately it was eventually repealed, which had little to do with the bill itself and much to

do with giving the SNP a bloody nose.

 

The behaviour will be ignored at the football, as it always has been before.

 

One thing that isn’t getting enough coverage is that this legislation mirrors almost identical legislation already in place in England and Wales. Only in Scotland is it being made out to be controversial.

But what has changed to make it necessary? Can surely only be the advent of social media? But this is not about social media....

[dannymack]

1 hour ago, boag1874 said:

Just want to prefix this by saying I’m not looking to get into a debate about the wider hate crime bill, that’s more for the Shed, this is just an observation on a specific comment by Ally McCoist.

 

Not exactly a great look when we should be trying to stamp out sectarianism in Scottish Football for one of our most prominent media figures to essentially encourage it at Ibrox.
 

I generally find the guy pretty likeable especially on co-comms but this is poor imo & shows him up as a bit of a fud.

 

https://x.com/football_scot/status/1775088376263139463?s=46&t=SrqSNwJR3cnKo5Ytt-xW5A

 

He's only telling the truth... " Get into these celtic *******s ! " 

 

Your under arrest son. 

[Jim_Duncan]

53 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

Need to protect the people that identify as cats, dogs and unicorns 

And has anybody asked cats, dogs and unicorns whether they identify as people? Will this hatred ever end?

[Jim_Duncan]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

I only stated a fact . Lots of places have shared uni sex facilities.

Public swimming pools,trains and aircraft.

 

Don't see the need for such aggression.

You need to calm down.

You don't share a toilet on a plane with someone of the opposite sex unless you're really winning.

[Jim_Duncan]

7 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

But what has changed to make it necessary? Can surely only be the advent of social media? But this is not about social media....

Which is a shame. Everyone should be free to say what they want, but also be responsible for it.

[Jim_Duncan]

1 hour ago, boag1874 said:

Just want to prefix this by saying I’m not looking to get into a debate about the wider hate crime bill, that’s more for the Shed, this is just an observation on a specific comment by Ally McCoist.

 

Not exactly a great look when we should be trying to stamp out sectarianism in Scottish Football for one of our most prominent media figures to essentially encourage it at Ibrox.
 

I generally find the guy pretty likeable especially on co-comms but this is poor imo & shows him up as a bit of a fud.

 

https://x.com/football_scot/status/1775088376263139463?s=46&t=SrqSNwJR3cnKo5Ytt-xW5A

Strange why he feels the need to get involved in this shite. Is he going to be singing about hating Fenians, Irish Catholics, or just Celtic fans in general?

[Ex member of the SaS]

Lets face it , if the polis won't enter a football stand to arrest someone for stealing from concession stands or attacking ball boys then how can this law be enforced? What will happen is nosy neighbours will call saying you abused them and you will be hauled up to court. Those who make up these laws have no idea of real life and think they can control the population. The police don't have the training or any common sense, so stupid trivial accusations will see then over run. They can't stop a pedo ring in Bradford so how will they stop 48,000 singing?

[Ex member of the SaS]

12 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

But what has changed to make it necessary? Can surely only be the advent of social media? But this is not about social media....

What changed is woke culture, where stupid people are easily offended. Can you imagine chubby Brown getting a whole new act just to perform in Scotland?

[Bazzas right boot]

27 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

On the bill, do folk seriously think police are going to attend to reports that someone has been called a specky b******, fat ^^^^ or a coffin dodger?

Half of Scotland would be locked up

 

You get charged for calling someone a black ******* or shouting  racist abuse at a player or a fan , so why not a orange/ fenian ******* and bringing up the history of that.

 

Someone will have to explain why one is a crime that society should work together and eradicate and even on here all in agreement,  while the other is OK and we should just let slide and is a bit of banter and is free speech.

 

In Scotland,  bigotry and sectarianism is a bigger problem than racism,  yet there is a reluctance to do anything about it. 

 

 

 

[Polonia Gorgie]

9 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

And has anybody asked cats, dogs and unicorns whether they identify as people? Will this hatred ever end?

 

9 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

You don't share a toilet on a plane with someone of the opposite sex unless you're really winning.

Can see the headlines now........ Cat and dog join mile high club 😳

[boag1874]

5 minutes ago, dannymack said:

 

He's only telling the truth... " Get into these celtic *******s ! " 

 

Your under arrest son. 

To be in breach of the hate bill he says he’s going to be in breach of, Ally McCoist would have to be using abusive or threatening language intended to stir up hatred relating to someones age, gender identity, race, religion, sexual orientation or disability - calling someone a Celtic ******* would not make him in breach of the hate bill, although use of certain other words often heard around ibrox related to the bit in bold would..

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

What changed is woke culture, where stupid people are easily offended. Can you imagine chubby Brown getting a whole new act just to perform in Scotland?

 

You don't even know what woke is, do you?

Look up the definition rather than taking it from the daily mail and then reflect a bit.

 

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

He's probably not wrong. There will also be thousands of other fans from all clubs doing the same thin week in week out. It all depends if there is a complaint made I suppose. 

Edited April 2 by Seymour M Hersh

[The Treasurer]

You can guarantee that when the sevco fans are going through their usual "songbook" on Sunday, the commentators will be drooling over the "fantastic atmosphere" with no mention of the actual content of the songs. 

Yet if you hear a "naughty word" they will be quick to apologise for "any offensive language that may have been picked up "

[Bazzas right boot]

11 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Which is a shame. Everyone should be free to say what they want, but also be responsible for it.

 

What does that mean, free ti say anything with no laws or police intervention?

 

Is it ok to go about in a gang,   about the street calling folk yellow or black *******s, do you think  people should be free to say this?

 

[Mikey1874]

14 hours ago, Cruyff said:

I think it's absolute nonsense  We shouldn't be censoring language or thought - no matter how offensive the language used or how unlikeable someone's opinion may be. An absurd piece of legislation and a slippery slope to further censorship. That itself should be a crime. Get all these idiot politicians in the sea. 

 

You need to focus on what people do.

 

I've said about sectarianism, are any of people singing songs actually discriminating against anyone. Stopping them get jobs etc. 

[May98]

3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

He's probably not wrong. There will also be thousands of other fans from all clubs doing the same thin week in week out. It all depends if there is a complaint made I suppose. 

Correct.  He’s not saying at all he’s going to be bigoted or sectarian.   He’s saying if you say a naughty word at the football from now on you could be arrested.