Gundermann Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Just now, kingantti1874 said: Dont agree we have the same scale of problem. Haven’t witnessed missile throwing of that extent or anywhere close to it How do we measure that? I can mind a few years ago that someone's granny was hit with a bottle thrown by a fellow Hearts fan. Then there is the persistent minority with their Hun song book. We, all, should have moved on from the 1980s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerryJambo81 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Push comes to shove, reducing allocation does nothing to stop the problem. Actively police, CCTV watched live and people throwing things arrested there and then. No reason that can't be communicated between cctv and police. Enough arrests and suddenly there's consequence which in turn discourages most. The problem is there is no consequence as its rare people are arrested, followed by getting mugs in paper as football...whatever word you cared to add next. Reducing allocation means the majority suffer. Let's be honest, 3500 or so in stand and will likely be less than 50 - 100 (finger in air number) actively throwing things. I just don't think it's the right approach but hey ho, we all see things differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobskeldon Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 It looked to me last night that they had managed to do what Celtic have been doing for years…getting more people in than seats! I couldn’t see too many empty seats but the entire concourse was rammed for 90 mins! Hearts need to sort this out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Gundermann said: Sadly, we have these morons too. If we cut and Hibs reciprocate then so be it. Morons ruining it for others again. We do, but I still don't think reducing it would matter. We should each have the full stand, it adds to the atmosphere and makes the game what it is. It really shouldn't be that difficult to identify the culprits with all the security and technology we have these days. Find them and make sure they receive a ban. That would be more of a deterrent than cutting their allocation IMO. Edited February 29 by Chimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboT Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 6 minutes ago, Tiro said: Can someone who voted no, please explain why. I am genuinely interested for the sake of taking a balanced view. For me Health and Safety takes priority but I would be interested to hear the counter arguments. If we were to reduce them to one or two sections, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that what happened last night wouldn't still happen. If H&S is your priority then the only way you could guarantee that would be to go the same way as the Old Firm and not have any away fans. If we did ban Hibs fans, they would then reciprocate and Hearts fans who regularly attend East Road would miss out. Also, having watched some of the Old Firm games without fans, it's awful!! We should be selling Scottish Football and making it as good a spectacle as we can, not looking for ways to make it worse. The behaviour last night was awful, but punish the culprits not the vast majority who were law abiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, FerryJambo81 said: Push comes to shove, reducing allocation does nothing to stop the problem. Actively police, CCTV watched live and people throwing things arrested there and then. No reason that can't be communicated between cctv and police. Enough arrests and suddenly there's consequence which in turn discourages most. The problem is there is no consequence as its rare people are arrested, followed by getting mugs in paper as football...whatever word you cared to add next. Reducing allocation means the majority suffer. Let's be honest, 3500 or so in stand and will likely be less than 50 - 100 (finger in air number) actively throwing things. I just don't think it's the right approach but hey ho, we all see things differently. How does it do nothing? Policing 600 hibs fans is easier than 3800. It concentrates the problem into a smaller section and makes them easier to police. I'd be asking hibs about who they are selling tickets too aswell. They sell to any of the support so all the wee dicks turn up for the derby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 3 minutes ago, Gundermann said: How do we measure that? I can mind a few years ago that someone's granny was hit with a bottle thrown by a fellow Hearts fan. Then there is the persistent minority with their Hun song book. We, all, should have moved on from the 1980s. how do we measure it? Well it took about 5 mins for the penalty to be taken. Coins, pies, bottle openers AirPods, pies and a football all being thrown at our player is a good measure. has an opposition penalty ever been delayed by missiles from the hearts end? Nope. so there you go - measured! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, Chimp said: We do, but I still don't think reducing it would matter. We should each have the full stand, it adds to the atmosphere and makes the game what it is. It really shouldn't be that difficult to identify the culprits with all the security and technology we have these days. Find them and make sure they receive a ban. That would be more of a deterrent than cutting their allocation IMO. I don't know why this isn't done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_1874 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Long term solution is a perplex screen like they do in Europe, at the front of the allocation and the sides. Gets rid of those eyesore security banners and can sell more seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye1874 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Think has to be done. Although that behaviour doesn’t just happen at Tynecastle - they were throwing stuff at our players at Easter road too and to my knowledge remain unpunished. Disgraceful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) . Edited February 29 by Chimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Previously I was all for the full allocation, think last night was the last straw, I have no issue now with never setting foot in their shithole ever again. Their moronic manager saying he feels sorry for them and hopes they get an apology whilst this morning they talk about cutting OF allocation for pyro, you can't make this shit up. Get rid Hearts. Why prevent our own fans admission to allow this lot in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 3 minutes ago, Gundermann said: I don't know why this isn't done. Baffling. You see it with other offences, for example the scumbags who do racist gestures towards players etc, they always seem to find them no bother and rightfully ban them. No idea how this is so difficult or any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjack Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I've votes no, but I feel we should erect some netting in front of the stand. I wouldn't want the reduced allocation at the sangiro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queensferryjambo Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 59 minutes ago, martoon said: The Roseburn was like the chimps enclosure last night. The large ned element in there have behaved poorly for years. Last night was the worst. I agree with everything you said apart from the fact that last night was the worst. They have done the same shit since the relegation derby match where coins, lighters, pies drinks, a drumstick, a seat and a shoe were aimed at Jamie MacDonald. I put that game as being worse along with spitting on the ball boy game and hitting Zlamal game. They are the absolute tramps of the Hibs support who are getting tickets for Tynecastle. They will be chuffed to bits with their efforts last night. Glad they guys who throw the thunder bangers after the game was finished seemed to get identified and grabbed by the Police. Idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I voted no because I think you could solve the issue by not selling tickets for the lower Roseburn and putting the black nets up all along the front. I personally don't want to see us follow the Old Firm into a petty tit-for-tat with only a few hundred at each derby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Mugabe Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I want as little of their support at Tynecastle as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Lucky none of our players were hit by that corkscrew. That could have blinded someone 😡😡 Absolute scum. Hearts really need to take a stance on this and ban the lot of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daktari Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 6 minutes ago, Bender said: I voted no because I think you could solve the issue by not selling tickets for the lower Roseburn and putting the black nets up all along the front. I personally don't want to see us follow the Old Firm into a petty tit-for-tat with only a few hundred at each derby. It's them that would look petty though. We reduce or withdraw their supporters because of well documented and evidence relating to safety of players, and they do the same 'just because'.. ? It's a pretty shaky basis unless we took the decision purely on a numbers basis, in which case I could see it. The simple fact is they don't have the evidence to reciprocate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 3 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Bongo even nicking pictures from the other thread to post on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Clearly a case of needing clear communication with Hibs on this. We as a club are responsible for Hibs fans safety. Hibs are responsible for their fans behaviour at away games. I would be sitting down with the powers that be from ER and saying “ this has happened. It’s unacceptable. The reasons are A,B,C etc. What are you going to do about it? If it happens again this is what we will are prepared to do. Fire the problem which is fundamentally theirs back at them to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Vallance Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, Chimp said: Reducing their allocation won't stop idiots from throwing things. There's idiots in every support and that won't make any difference. Identifying the offenders and banning them for life is the solution. It would be an awful lot easier to identify them if there was only one section to police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 4 minutes ago, been here before said: Bongo even nicking pictures from the other thread to post on this one. Can you justify that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sac Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Give same as everyone else, then there’s no argument. 600, easier to police & much easier to identify culprits no matter what direction they chuck stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queensferryjambo Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, Bender said: I voted no because I think you could solve the issue by not selling tickets for the lower Roseburn and putting the black nets up all along the front. I personally don't want to see us follow the Old Firm into a petty tit-for-tat with only a few hundred at each derby. The missiles were coming from high up in the Roseburn it wasn't limited to the lower Roseburn. Not sure nets are the answer either. Ajax used to have a 'bullet proof' glass cage for away fans (extreme I know but Feyenoord fans etc were nuts back then) in their stadium when it first opened, they certainly did when I visited in 1997. They also had a huge tube bridge thing that ran for ages into the ground so the away fans couldn't even meet the home fans until they were in the cage. Not sure if it is the same nowadays - you can see it in the upper right of this picture. Either way maybe some temporary large perspex barriers placed at the front of the Roseburn is the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 6 minutes ago, been here before said: Bongo even nicking pictures from the other thread to post on this one. Some big tough guys that they have to,use weapons, not at all trying to promote violence, the majority of these offenders,couldn't fight sleep,but that's today generation I'm afraid. How many would step into a cage or a boxing ring,none why ? Because they would get shown up, for what they really are. Seems you think its right to carry though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 No brainer. Money in the bank 🏦 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 6 minutes ago, Fort Vallance said: It would be an awful lot easier to identify them if there was only one section to police. There's cameras everywhere? Look where object is thrown from, trace back to culprit where you can see said object leaving their hand. Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiro Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 14 minutes ago, TurboT said: If we were to reduce them to one or two sections, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that what happened last night wouldn't still happen. If H&S is your priority then the only way you could guarantee that would be to go the same way as the Old Firm and not have any away fans. If we did ban Hibs fans, they would then reciprocate and Hearts fans who regularly attend East Road would miss out. Also, having watched some of the Old Firm games without fans, it's awful!! We should be selling Scottish Football and making it as good a spectacle as we can, not looking for ways to make it worse. The behaviour last night was awful, but punish the culprits not the vast majority who were law abiding. I respect your views and totally agree that if H&S is the priority then a total ban is required and that is what I am advocating. I have enjoyed derby games for over 55 years and I loved the atmosphere these games generated. There were occasions, such as the Mercer derby, when things were OTT but such events were followed by games where it was solely about honest rivalry. In recent times however the atmosphere has become more and more poisonous without respite. In view of this I feel it's now reached the point where we have to act before someone is seriously injured. My view is corroborated by many decent Hibs fans who report a large element of their own support causing problems at their home games. Their own board won't tackle this which is no surprise given their silence over last night's events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 The Police/Stewards need to set-up an outer perimeter on Russell Road where they check tickets, before they get near the turnstile like they did in Florence. It will ensure that anyone without a ticket can't get near the ground and tailgate in behind a ticket holder. Plus there can't be that many turnstiles at the away end. Put a Cop on each one and stop them going through 2 at a time. Better still, just cut their allocation and save us all the bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 18 minutes ago, Daktari said: It's them that would look petty though. We reduce or withdraw their supporters because of well documented and evidence relating to safety of players, and they do the same 'just because'.. ? It's a pretty shaky basis unless we took the decision purely on a numbers basis, in which case I could see it. The simple fact is they don't have the evidence to reciprocate. Hibs would absolutely bow to fan pressure to cut our allocation to the bare minimum if we were to do similar. The fact we would be doing it to guarantee player safety wouldn't matter a jot. Fans in the East Stand regularly throw objects at players, with one even jumping the barrier to go after James Tavernier a few years back. They clearly don't care about safety. 10 minutes ago, queensferryjambo said: The missiles were coming from high up in the Roseburn it wasn't limited to the lower Roseburn. Not sure nets are the answer either. Ajax used to have a 'bullet proof' glass cage for away fans (extreme I know but Feyenoord fans etc were nuts back then) in their stadium when it first opened, they certainly did when I visited in 1997. They also had a huge tube bridge thing that ran for ages into the ground so the away fans couldn't even meet the home fans until they were in the cage. Not sure if it is the same nowadays - you can see it in the upper right of this picture. Either way maybe some temporary large perspex barriers placed at the front of the Roseburn is the answer? I'm not just looking at the missile throwing, although the aforementioned net would make it far harder to lob vapes, lighters, coins, etc at our players. It would also prevent the pitch invasions, the attacks on our players and chucking fireworks at ballboys. I don't disagree with the principle of cutting their allocation, however I don't want to see it reduced to 576. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 9 minutes ago, Chimp said: There's cameras everywhere? Look where object is thrown from, trace back to culprit where you can see said object leaving their hand. Simple. These neds all have hoodies on and scarfs over their faces, so it is very difficult to identify them. Not that simple unfortunately. Unless someone was seriously injured, the Cops will not put much or any effort into finding them. They'll get no help from H1b5 FC either, in identifying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 17 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Can you justify that? What is it thats confusing you about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyces beard Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I have always been on the side of a full stand at both grounds but after last night i now think **** them, give them the 560 everyone else gets and get full season tickets sold to our own fans in the Roseburn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daktari Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, Bender said: Hibs would absolutely bow to fan pressure to cut our allocation to the bare minimum if we were to do similar. The fact we would be doing it to guarantee player safety wouldn't matter a jot. Fans in the East Stand regularly throw objects at players, with one even jumping the barrier to go after James Tavernier a few years back. They clearly don't care about safety. I should have said 'they don't have the evidence to reciprocate with credibility'. I don't disagree with you that they may well bow to fan pressure, but with no other reason to do other than revenge, they would look silly and petty doing so. Ultimately, 'what they will or might do' isn't in our hands. Managing the situation inside Tynecastle is however and fear of what they might do shouldn't be used to compromise anything we do to look after our players while they're at their work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 5 minutes ago, Yoda said: These neds all have hoodies on and scarfs over their faces, so it is very difficult to identify them. Not that simple unfortunately. Unless someone was seriously injured, the Cops will not put much or any effort into finding them. They'll get no help from H1b5 FC either, in identifying them. I'm sure if it was a more serious incident they'd find them pretty easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, leipzig76 said: Agree Chimp.The tech in cameras available and coverage of that end should make it relatively easy to identify the seat number and purchaser of said ticket.Criminal charges not just a ban. Given they were all standing and many squeezed into the lower section I doubt the seat number would be relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 20 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Some big tough guys that they have to,use weapons, not at all trying to promote violence, the majority of these offenders,couldn't fight sleep,but that's today generation I'm afraid. How many would step into a cage or a boxing ring,none why ? Because they would get shown up, for what they really are. Seems you think its right to carry though. What the **** are you slavering about now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 1 minute ago, been here before said: What the **** are you slavering about now? The subject is about reducing hibs fans allocation, do you think hibs fans behaviour and that picture is acceptable. Edited February 29 by Bongo 1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daktari Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, Chimp said: I'm sure if it was a more serious incident they'd find them pretty easily. It doesn't make the identification any easier. It might though cause some of their fans with a bit of decency to speak up/call crime stoppers anonymously though. Too many people will see last night as just 'atmosphere'. Sadly it does take something serious to change virtue signalling to action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Just now, Bongo 1874 said: The subject is about reducing hibs allocation, do you think hibs behaviour and that picture is acceptable. You're having a conversation with someone else in your head arent you as opposed to reading what Ive written on here arent you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 53 minutes ago, Chimp said: We do, but I still don't think reducing it would matter. We should each have the full stand, it adds to the atmosphere and makes the game what it is. Our priority should be to our own fans so that Roseburn ST holders (like me) don't have to seek tickets elsewhere or - for the majority - sit at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 9 minutes ago, Yoda said: These neds all have hoodies on and scarfs over their faces, so it is very difficult to identify them. Not that simple unfortunately. Unless someone was seriously injured, the Cops will not put much or any effort into finding them. They'll get no help from H1b5 FC either, in identifying them. Police sit back and allow it to happen,this country has a two tiered policing system. Just now, been here before said: You're having a conversation with someone else in your head arent you as opposed to reading what Ive written on here arent you? Simple question, seems you are unprepared to answer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Simple question, seems you are unprepared to answer it. Tell you what daftie... go back to the thread you lifted the picture from and see who originally posted it... and why... Edited February 29 by been here before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, been here before said: Tell you what daftie... go back to the thread you lifted the picture from and see who originally posted it... and why... Ohh now we are getting personal, so let me get this right you posted it,and are upset that i posted it,**** me 😂😂😂 have a nice day mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerryJambo81 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 58 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said: How does it do nothing? Policing 600 hibs fans is easier than 3800. It concentrates the problem into a smaller section and makes them easier to police. I'd be asking hibs about who they are selling tickets too aswell. They sell to any of the support so all the wee dicks turn up for the derby. By not addressing the root cause, people being able to do things without personal repercussions. I just don't agree with punishing the many for the behaviour of a few. There needs to be targeted action, not a blanket ban on all...or the vast majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 My opinion changed last night. Derby at Tynecastle seems to attract the twat element of their support. And the idiots from our support are evident at Easter Road. And it’s only getting worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 3 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: Ohh now we are getting personal, so let me get this right you posted it,and are upset that i posted it,**** me 😂😂😂 have a nice day mate. Aye, aye thats it, bang on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_liam06 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, PTBCAL said: I’ve always wanted a reduced allocation. Nothing to do with last night which I don’t think was hugely out of order Mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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