Excess Deaths

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Many heads were buckled during the covid pandemic.

 

Reading through this it appears many heads are still buckled.

 

Keep bleaching those messages you crazy cats 👍

 

My liver was buckled during the covid pandemic.

[i wish jj was my dad]

59 minutes ago, Bret the Hitman Hearts said:

 

Sorry - I didn't necessarily mean you. I just get amused by how it's (still) possible to come onto a forum, state a fact like "the Astra Zeneca vaccine killed people" and people still immediately jump on it as a "conspiracy theory".

 

Like this:
 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said there. I just remain a bit bitter that it's apparent that these vaccines were rushed through - understandably so, given the situation we were in. But no one can tell me that they weren't rushed - otherwise the side-effects would have come to light earlier, rather than during the actual rollout. Off the top of my head, I remember a lot of debate around what age groups it actually made sense to vaccinate. America was jabbing infants while we never did here - so there wasn't exactly consensus across the board. I'm suspicious of the desire to vaccinate everyone multiple times - especially in America, due to the fact that it's a profit-making exercise over there. That argument doesn't really apply here, thankfully.

 

You're right though - I should probably try to move on since it's all in the past now 😅

 

Btw, since you asked, they dropped the Astra Zeneca vaccine later on, with the official explanation that the MRNA ones were more effective but I always had my personal suspicions that they just quietly shelved it due to the blood clot issues. I remember during the rollout when the time came for my age group to get vaccinated, no one wanted "the blood clots one" - which again, didn't exactly fill me with confidence!

Having now read the article and the link to the UK health security agency I'm still no closer to believing any conspiracy theories.

As with most topics, I've got limited knowledge or appreciation of detail but I suspect there is an element of reaction / risk to most vaccine programmes and as covid was the most pressing medical emergency of our life times, I think that on balance the risk of fast tracking astra zeneca and other covid vaccines was worth taking at the time.  For me, it falls into the category of making the best of the shite options available. The vaccination programmes were probably the main reason we got out of the lockdown cycles that were probably the biggest threat to national wellbeing since the battle of Britain so I won't be using them as any stick to beat the governments. 

[TheOak88]

On 06/01/2024 at 10:29, hughesie27 said:

You pretty much got it in 1. It reduced the severity of your symptoms/hospital admissions and fie the young who are better equipped to handle the harsher symptoms it reduced your chance of getting it in the first place and as a result reduced the spread to those more at risk. 

The boosters are still being dished out. They're given alongside the Flu jab for various age groups and higher risk folk. 

I can get them through my work but never bothered this year. As tbh like you suggest the Xovid thing seems to have passed/been forgotten about. 

That said my uncle got all the boosters up until this year and had covid twice during that time with minimal symptoms. A few weeks ago he was taken into Hospital for 3 or 4 days as a result of Covid. He hadn't had his jags this year for it.  All anecdotal stories but I'm not really up for churning through the latest biased (from both sides) research on Covid in 2024.

 

I will say though that during Covid a lot was said about the mental health impact on people and that suicide rates would sky rocket because of Lockdowns. At the time it was found that it had 0 impact on the number of suicides.

I am still unsure about this point about the vaccine reducing the spread (amongst young people or otherwise). Take up of the vaccine was incredibly high, and it continues to spread. 
 

My understanding of the vaccine was to reduce the severity of symptoms, but agree with @Taffin the messaging seemed to be totally mixed on the purpose of the vaccine. 

[Ron Burgundy]

Covid came along and the mega rich saw it as an opportunity. That is why it was handled the way it was IMO.

[hughesie27]

39 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

I am still unsure about this point about the vaccine reducing the spread (amongst young people or otherwise). Take up of the vaccine was incredibly high, and it continues to spread. 
 

My understanding of the vaccine was to reduce the severity of symptoms, but agree with @Taffin the messaging seemed to be totally mixed on the purpose of the vaccine. 

The first batch of vaccines coincided with a significant reduction in cases if i remember right. But its not a one and done, its effectiveness probably only lasted a couple of months and the majority of folk won't still be getting vaccinated now so it will spread easily.

[i wish jj was my dad]

58 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Covid came along and the mega rich saw it as an opportunity. That is why it was handled the way it was IMO.

I don't think anybody can doubt that some pricks seized on the opportunity and the gangsters running the show in Whitehall were only too happy to enable them but I don't think the strategy was driven on that basis.

[periodictabledancer]

25 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I don't think anybody can doubt that some pricks seized on the opportunity and the gangsters running the show in Whitehall were only too happy to enable them but I don't think the strategy was driven on that basis.

With Bunter "in  charge ", a guy who couldn't run a school tuck shop, it's no wonder the whole episode was a fiasco. Weird how folk would spin the well documented incompetence of imbeciles like Johnson & Hancock into a yet another Covid conspiracy theory though. I mean , if you're gonna "conspire" you need a plan and a group of people capable of conspiring, not some complete idiots who couldn't find their arses in the dark. 

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Bret the Hitman Hearts said:

 

Sorry - I didn't necessarily mean you. I just get amused by how it's (still) possible to come onto a forum, state a fact like "the Astra Zeneca vaccine killed people" and people still immediately jump on it as a "conspiracy theory".

 

Like this:
 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said there. I just remain a bit bitter that it's apparent that these vaccines were rushed through - understandably so, given the situation we were in. But no one can tell me that they weren't rushed - otherwise the side-effects would have come to light earlier, rather than during the actual rollout. Off the top of my head, I remember a lot of debate around what age groups it actually made sense to vaccinate. America was jabbing infants while we never did here - so there wasn't exactly consensus across the board. I'm suspicious of the desire to vaccinate everyone multiple times - especially in America, due to the fact that it's a profit-making exercise over there. That argument doesn't really apply here, thankfully.

 

You're right though - I should probably try to move on since it's all in the past now 😅

 

Btw, since you asked, they dropped the Astra Zeneca vaccine later on, with the official explanation that the MRNA ones were more effective but I always had my personal suspicions that they just quietly shelved it due to the blood clot issues. I remember during the rollout when the time came for my age group to get vaccinated, no one wanted "the blood clots one" - which again, didn't exactly fill me with confidence!

 

I'm not sure what exactly your concern with side effects is.  All vaccines have side effects, and indeed all drugs have side effects.  But if we blocked distribution of vaccines or drugs because they have side effects we'd have no drugs, and more illness and disease. That would be incredibly bad - much, much worse than where we are now.

 

People go on about the vaccines being "rushed", but I'm still waiting for one person to tell me why it would have been better to slow things down, wait another two years to release vaccines, and then...

 

...spend all of 2021 and 2022 with Covid-19 illnesses and deaths, government restrictions, and all the social and economic damage that went with that.

 

You wouldn't have put up with that, and neither would most of us.

 

I've already posted the links that show that the side effects of Covid-19 vaccines in terms of heart inflammation conditions was far, far lower than Covid-19 itself, and that for any age group getting the vaccine was safer than getting the illness.  There might be other reasons why a young person would say "I'm not gonna bother", but safety isn't one of them.

 

Initially, the data showed that the mRNA vaccines didn't perform any better than AstraZeneca's viral vector vaccine.  However, subsequent data shows that mRNA vaccines were more effective against Covid-19 variants. That, rather than safety, seems to explain why AstraZeneca's vaccine is still authorised but no longer distributed in the UK and the EU.

 

Here's what the British Heart Foundation has on its website about Covid-19 vaccines and heart health.

 

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

With Bunter "in  charge ", a guy who couldn't run a school tuck shop, it's no wonder the whole episode was a fiasco. Weird how folk would spin the well documented incompetence of imbeciles like Johnson & Hancock into a yet another Covid conspiracy theory though. I mean , if you're gonna "conspire" you need a plan and a group of people capable of conspiring, not some complete idiots who couldn't find their arses in the dark. 

 

Only in the dark?  Aren't you being a bit charitable there?

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

With Bunter "in  charge ", a guy who couldn't run a school tuck shop, it's no wonder the whole episode was a fiasco. Weird how folk would spin the well documented incompetence of imbeciles like Johnson & Hancock into a yet another Covid conspiracy theory though. I mean , if you're gonna "conspire" you need a plan and a group of people capable of conspiring, not some complete idiots who couldn't find their arses in the dark. 

The truth is generally more boring than some would like but this nails it

[periodictabledancer]

Just now, Ulysses said:

 

Only in the dark?  Aren't you being a bit charitable there?

Yes, probably. 😄

[Footballfirst]

6 hours ago, windsor1874 said:

Cool so the statement that young males had 44% more issues now than before COVID wasn't actually even in the Lancet article being discussed. But you tried to dress it up as such. Glad we've cleared that up.

 

Have you got the article from the CDC which says that btw? I've had a Google but can't seem to find it.

I haven't looked at the information relied upon re the 44%, but it sounds like playing with statistics.

 

e.g. If there was a 0.1% chance of an event previously and that percentage had gone up to 0.144%, then it could be stated to represent a 44% increase in the likelihood of the event occurring. In reality, however, it has only gone from extremely unlikely, to still extremely unlikely.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

Not everyone who had reservations about lockdowns and vaccine was a conspiracy theorist.  Like I’ve said before many govt used it to further their own political agendas and grievances against other govt . Elsie being the main culprit . History will not be kind about her 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

47 minutes ago, windsor1874 said:

Definitely sounds like massaging stats from a base of pretty much zero. But I was just toying with the guy, to see what unsubstantiated rubbish he would come up with next.

 

Always the way with conspiracy theorists. You ask them for further explanation of something they've said, or correct their wrong facts, and they disappear. They don't want to know.

unless you quantify the number of deaths from certain types of heart disease amongst the middle-aged population as “a base of pretty much zero” your “definitely sounds …” is good bit off the mark mate

im assuming you’re not a statistician or a mortality expert or something so it’s easy to get crossed wires so to speak in general football forum chat

but I think that’s what the original poster / conspiracy theorist was talking about

 

 

 

 

 

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

Goalposts move all the time but it does look like there we less people wrapping their heids up with tinfoil for a wee while at least. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

13 minutes ago, windsor1874 said:

He said a stat that was in the link attached.

I called him out and said it wasn't.

He said it was somewhere else.

I asked for that source so I could read it for myself.

He never produced the facts.

 

That about sums it up.

to fully sum it up - you’ve missed the bit about you then making a wrong assumption and then referring to the poster as a conspiracy theorist

 

 

only joking mate but that did also happen

 

 

[Day@theraces]

42 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Goalposts move all the time but it does look like there we less people wrapping their heids up with tinfoil for a wee while at least. 

 

Not being trusting or overly trusting of those in power is not quite tinfoil hat material.

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 minutes ago, Day@theraces said:

 

Not being trusting or overly trusting of those in power is not quite tinfoil hat material.

I don't trust the powers that be either but I think we have seen enough to debunk the suggestion that lockdown and vaccines were some dark attempt to control the masses. At least for now.

The whole period was shite. Governments not just ours made an arse of it and Tory cronies exploited the opportunity to become filthy rich. 

[That thing you do]

On 05/01/2024 at 17:16, Day@theraces said:

 

The vaccine is 100% safe though 😔

My greatest regret is having the covid jab but travelling meant having it. None of them have had the testing needed to be fully safe and so the increase in deaths doesnt surprise me.

 

The refusers made the right call if they isolated from the vulnerable.

[ri Alban]

11 hours ago, windsor1874 said:

Definitely sounds like massaging stats from a base of pretty much zero. But I was just toying with the guy, to see what unsubstantiated rubbish he would come up with next.

 

Always the way with conspiracy theorists. You ask them for further explanation of something they've said, or correct their wrong facts, and they disappear. They don't want to know.

I'll say one thing. Rishi deliberately pit people in danger, so he could make money off his shares in his vaccine. Moderna. Eat out to make them a fortune. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

I'll say one thing. Rishi deliberately pit people in danger, so he could make money off his shares in his vaccine. Moderna. Eat out to make them a fortune. 

Now, I have as much contempt for him as anybody but I seriously doubt eat out to help out was some elaborate plot to make that wee spiv even more money.

It was a headline grabber from a government who were desperate to increase popularity. Short sighted, ill considered and stupid like a lot of what they do but I doubt even he was that evil. 

[escobri]

6 hours ago, That thing you do said:

My greatest regret is having the covid jab but travelling meant having it. None of them have had the testing needed to be fully safe and so the increase in deaths doesnt surprise me.

 

The refusers made the right call if they isolated from the vulnerable.

I've yet to meet anyone who regrets not getting the jabs(maybe because they are dead though 🤣). Sometimes, being a so-called conspirator has its benefits.

[escobri]

14 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Not everyone who had reservations about lockdowns and vaccine was a conspiracy theorist.  Like I’ve said before many govt used it to further their own political agendas and grievances against other govt . Elsie being the main culprit . History will not be kind about her 

Folk just throw the tin foil chat about as a cheap insult to those who went against the official narrative/lies, The jkb intellectuals or sheep as I think of them. It was obvious from the start that the majority did not need these injections, and folk like Elsie should be getting the jail. Hopefully, the investigation of the excess deaths around care homes brings some justice.

[John Findlay]

One can only see peak from personal experience. I've had Four COVID-19 vaccines in total. This winter only took my flu vaccine. I have never tested positive for COVID. Done around Ten tests in total.

March last year I was diagnosed with a Hernia in my unbilical tract. Hernia was protruding right above my naval.

The NHS just to make sure it was a Hernia only. Subjected me to 3 x CT scans, 1 x MRI scan, and a Colonoscopy. I had 3 minute pollits removed during the colonoscopy all tested negative for anything nasty.

I had my Hernia correcting Op at the Western General on the 13th of November last year. I have been off work since then. 

Though I do return to work on Monday the 15th of January.

I have been taken aback quite abit on how long it has taken me to recover from the surgery as I was expecting in myself Four weeks off work maximum.

Then as has been pointed out to me by several friends. I'm not a young man anymore, I will be 61 this April coming, the older you get the longer it takes the body to heal. 

My job involves alot of walking at Waverley station. I normally walk between 10-12 miles a shift.

 

What I will say is that for the NHS I was dealt with very professionally from start to finish. Compared to a lot of people quickly too. Eight months from diagnosis by my GP to being operated by the consultant I personally thought was very good.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, escobri said:

Folk just throw the tin foil chat about as a cheap insult to those who went against the official narrative/lies, The jkb intellectuals or sheep as I think of them. It was obvious from the start that the majority did not need these injections, and folk like Elsie should be getting the jail. Hopefully, the investigation of the excess deaths around care homes brings some justice.

 

Folk actually just use the tinfoil chat as a shorthand for describing poor eejits who seem to think that watching a few videos is the same as getting and using an education. There are few things that are as simultaneously amusing and annoying as reading fellas online going on about some complex medical or scientific phenomenon when most of them probably couldn't tell you the proper names for their own body parts. 

 

People can't be "getting the jail" just because you don't agree with them.  Just vote for someone else next time.  Apparently that's what lots of people plan to do, so that ought to get you a result.

 

On the other hand, I think the way Covid-19 was handled in care homes deserves closer scrutiny.  I think something like 20-25% of Covid-19 deaths here happened in care home outbreaks, and I imagine it was a similar story in the UK.

 

 

[escobri]

31 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Folk actually just use the tinfoil chat as a shorthand for describing poor eejits who seem to think that watching a few videos is the same as getting and using an education. There are few things that are as simultaneously amusing and annoying as reading fellas online going on about some complex medical or scientific phenomenon when most of them probably couldn't tell you the proper names for their own body parts. 

 

People can't be "getting the jail" just because you don't agree with them.  Just vote for someone else next time.  Apparently that's what lots of people plan to do, so that ought to get you a result.

 

On the other hand, I think the way Covid-19 was handled in care homes deserves closer scrutiny.  I think something like 20-25% of Covid-19 deaths here happened in care home outbreaks, and I imagine it was a similar story in the UK.

 

 

I never said i want her to go to jail because i disagree with her, thats your take on my post. Anyhoo

It's a football forum, not an only post on subjects that you've studied for 5 years plus. The so called foil heads knew something was wrong from the beginning and most definitely have not been proven wrong thus far.

As for scrutiny for the care home deaths, what punishment if any would you find suitable If  negligent decisions were made? Jail  perhaps 🤔 An investigation is underway here  but who knows what will come of it, probably find out in about 20 years.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

8 minutes ago, escobri said:

I never said i want her to go to jail because i disagree with her, thats your take on my post. Anyhoo

It's a football forum, not an only post on subjects that you've studied for 5 years plus. The so called foil heads knew something was wrong from the beginning and most definitely have not been proven wrong thus far.

As for scrutiny for the care home deaths, what punishment if any would you find suitable If  negligent decisions were made? Jail  perhaps 🤔 An investigation is underway here  but who knows what will come of it, probably find out in about 20 years.

 

Good point.

I'm sure for a more in depth discussion there are plenty of forums that specialise in certain categories only.

Some people forget that for the vast majority Kickback is first and foremost a place to meet for the common love of one thing only. Most posters will be working class guys who don't sit and sift through articles on every subject before posting an opinion.

It's snobbery from certain posters that spoil the chat IMO.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

One can only see peak from personal experience. I've had Four COVID-19 vaccines in total. This winter only took my flu vaccine. I have never tested positive for COVID. Done around Ten tests in total.

March last year I was diagnosed with a Hernia in my unbilical tract. Hernia was protruding right above my naval.

The NHS just to make sure it was a Hernia only. Subjected me to 3 x CT scans, 1 x MRI scan, and a Colonoscopy. I had 3 minute pollits removed during the colonoscopy all tested negative for anything nasty.

I had my Hernia correcting Op at the Western General on the 13th of November last year. I have been off work since then. 

Though I do return to work on Monday the 15th of January.

I have been taken aback quite abit on how long it has taken me to recover from the surgery as I was expecting in myself Four weeks off work maximum.

Then as has been pointed out to me by several friends. I'm not a young man anymore, I will be 61 this April coming, the older you get the longer it takes the body to heal. 

My job involves alot of walking at Waverley station. I normally walk between 10-12 miles a shift.

 

What I will say is that for the NHS I was dealt with very professionally from start to finish. Compared to a lot of people quickly too. Eight months from diagnosis by my GP to being operated by the consultant I personally thought was very good.

Tbh I’ve had hardly any issues with the NHS either . I was quite ill at the peak of covid in 2020 and was seen “ urgently “ and given the appropriate treatment . I noted that at the time , however there def seemed to be Delays etc for some , and ofcourse some delayed going to doc thinking they might not be seen . Glad your on the mend 👋👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, escobri said:

Folk just throw the tin foil chat about as a cheap insult to those who went against the official narrative/lies, The jkb intellectuals or sheep as I think of them. It was obvious from the start that the majority did not need these injections, and folk like Elsie should be getting the jail. Hopefully, the investigation of the excess deaths around care homes brings some justice.

It is a cheap insult to demean and discredit a view . Everyone is allowed their view and opinions . And everyone has the right to disagree and counter argue their view , if they wish . That’s why it’s a forum . 

[Ulysses]

14 minutes ago, escobri said:

I never said i want her to go to jail because i disagree with her, thats your take on my post. Anyhoo

It's a football forum, not an only post on subjects that you've studied for 5 years plus. The so called foil heads knew something was wrong from the beginning and most definitely have not been proven wrong thus far.

As for scrutiny for the care home deaths, what punishment if any would you find suitable If  negligent decisions were made? Jail  perhaps 🤔 An investigation is underway here  but who knows what will come of it, probably find out in about 20 years.

 

 

I haven't studied medicine for five years plus.  What are you on about? 

 

If you look at the history of things like Hillsborough or Horizon, you know well that it can take years to establish responsibility and liability when things like that go wrong.  However, I'm sure you'll agree that we don't need a legal or medical qualification to know that whoever was responsible for the care home outbreaks in Ireland, or England, or Sweden, France, Spain and Italy, it wasn't the SNP. 

[Ulysses]

11 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It is a cheap insult to demean and discredit a view . Everyone is allowed their view and opinions . And everyone has the right to disagree and counter argue their view , if they wish . That’s why it’s a forum . 

 

Sheep.

 

That's not me calling you that, by the way.

 

I just saw it being used to discredit and demean people on JKB, so it was on my mind.  I'd call it a cheap insult, but have you seen the price of a leg of lamb these days?

[escobri]

5 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I haven't studied medicine for five years plus.  What are you on about? 

 

If you look at the history of things like Hillsborough or Horizon, you know well that it can take years to establish responsibility and liability when things like that go wrong.  However, I'm sure you'll agree that we don't need a legal or medical qualification to know that whoever was responsible for the care home outbreaks in Ireland, or England, or Sweden, France, Spain and Italy, it wasn't the SNP. 

Is health not devolved in Scotland? 

[escobri]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Sheep.

 

That's not me calling you that, by the way.

 

I just saw it being used to discredit and demean people on JKB, so it was on my mind.  I'd call it a cheap insult, but have you seen the price of a leg of lamb these days?

🤣

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, escobri said:

🤣

 

Succulent lamb, as Vlad would have said.

 

Wrapped in tinfoil.  

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, escobri said:

Is health not devolved in Scotland? 

 

Swedish health?  I'm pretty sure it isn't. Or French?  English?  Irish?

 

On that subject, which Tories in England are you wanting to "get the jail"?  I'm presuming here that your passionate desire to seek justice for the deaths of elderly people in care homes applies to English people too.

[escobri]

34 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Swedish health?  I'm pretty sure it isn't. Or French?  English?  Irish?

 

On that subject, which Tories in England are you wanting to "get the jail"?  I'm presuming here that your passionate desire to seek justice for the deaths of elderly people in care homes applies to English people too.

Hell yea, start with #MidazolamMatt.

[XB52]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Folk actually just use the tinfoil chat as a shorthand for describing poor eejits who seem to think that watching a few videos is the same as getting and using an education. There are few things that are as simultaneously amusing and annoying as reading fellas online going on about some complex medical or scientific phenomenon when most of them probably couldn't tell you the proper names for their own body parts. 

 

People can't be "getting the jail" just because you don't agree with them.  Just vote for someone else next time.  Apparently that's what lots of people plan to do, so that ought to get you a result.

 

On the other hand, I think the way Covid-19 was handled in care homes deserves closer scrutiny.  I think something like 20-25% of Covid-19 deaths here happened in care home outbreaks, and I imagine it was a similar story in the UK.

 

 

Good post but it will be ignored by our 'honest I'm not a conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorists, plus yet another chance for someone to prove that Sturgeon was worse than Hitler

[i wish jj was my dad]

If folk want to exercise their right to be edgy, free-thinking and better informed than the medical and other experts who studied this stuff for a living that's all right with me tbh. 

It has been quite an education knowing that if the ordinary Joe who generally stuck to the rules had followed the advice of the edgy, free thinkers it would really have helped get covid under control and made sure the restrictions ended much more quickly than they actually were. 

Can't thank them enough for their wisdom and selfless action 👍. 

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Can't thank them enough for their wisdom and selfless action 👍. 

 

Try harder, and you’ll get there. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

Try harder, and you’ll get there. 

Aye, I'm not quite expressing my gratitude as warmly as I should. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

46 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

If folk want to exercise their right to be edgy, free-thinking and better informed than the medical and other experts who studied this stuff for a living that's all right with me tbh. 

It has been quite an education knowing that if the ordinary Joe who generally stuck to the rules had followed the advice of the edgy, free thinkers it would really have helped get covid under control and made sure the restrictions ended much more quickly than they actually were. 

Can't thank them enough for their wisdom and selfless action 👍. 

the experts who studied this stuff for a living didn’t always agree 🤷🏻‍♂️the average joe and Jolene following rules which probably included plenty who didn’t agree with them were just following a chosen set of rules which became known as “the science”

 

as you I and others have said there weren’t many easy choices for the decision makers (in between breaking the rules of course - fair play they survived) but all these excess deaths and financial meltdown was all predicted by those experts who became known as “not the science” / “grifters” / “foil hatters” etc despite formerly being widely highly respected with qualifications and titles coming out their ears

 

And with medical error being the 3rd leading cause of death (apparently) just following the experts blindly can be a precarious route to go for the average joe / Jolene and the non-binary equivalents

 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

as “not the science” / “grifters” / “foil hatters” etc despite formerly being widely highly respected with qualifications and titles coming out their ears

Yep 👍 

[Dennis Reynolds]

9 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

And with medical error being the 3rd leading cause of death (apparently) just following the experts blindly can be a precarious route to go for the average joe / Jolene and the non-binary equivalents

 

Citation plz

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 minute ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Citation plz

[i wish jj was my dad]

21 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

the experts who studied this stuff for a living didn’t always agree 🤷🏻‍♂️the average joe and Jolene following rules which probably included plenty who didn’t agree with them were just following a chosen set of rules which became known as “the science”

 

as you I and others have said there weren’t many easy choices for the decision makers (in between breaking the rules of course - fair play they survived) but all these excess deaths and financial meltdown was all predicted by those experts who became known as “not the science” / “grifters” / “foil hatters” etc despite formerly being widely highly respected with qualifications and titles coming out their ears

 

And with medical error being the 3rd leading cause of death (apparently) just following the experts blindly can be a precarious route to go for the average joe / Jolene and the non-binary equivalents

 

 

 

 

That the authorities fecked up is beyond dispute and hypocrites like Dr Lockdown, Johnson, Mancock, Calderwood and Cummings were beneath contempt but ignoring restrictions, not taking vaccines, ridiculing folk who did and in some cases abusing the poor buggers who were trying to work within the rules in retail and service industries contributed tothe feck up in its own lesser way. 

Hardly selfless martyrs. 

[Ulysses]

57 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

as you I and others have said there weren’t many easy choices for the decision makers (in between breaking the rules of course - fair play they survived) but all these excess deaths and financial meltdown was all predicted by those experts who became known as “not the science” / “grifters” / “foil hatters” etc despite formerly being widely highly respected with qualifications and titles coming out their ears

 

 

 

The "foil hatters" aren't those who argued that things should be different, or that there might be excess deaths or financial problems.  There were plenty of people who did that, including those who were knowledgeable and who interpreted the data differently.  There were policy choices to be made, and debating which ones were right and which were wrong is all part of how to look at what happened and maybe learn something useful in case we're ever faced with something like this again.  The "foil hatters" are the ones whinging about the gubbmint having a conspiracy to control them.  Even the Chinese government were desperate to drop Covid-19 restrictions and get people back to work - and they actually have a sodding plan to control their population which operates in plain view of everyone. 

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

And with medical error being the 3rd leading cause of death (apparently) just following the experts blindly can be a precarious route to go for the average joe / Jolene and the non-binary equivalents

 

 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

 

published in a well known and respected journal - the fact that some of the data and assumptions were subsequently challenged in itself proves the point that just blindly believing experts (or what’s written in respected journals) is a precarious road to go down and that the comments section has a part to play also

 

my own situation non-covid related - blood taken told I needed to go on lifetime medication - my reaction - I’m not saying I disbelieve the results but I want another blood test checked as going on lifetime medication (harmless or not) is a big deal to me especially as I don’t have the relevant symptoms - oh no sir you’ve reading the comments section etc - ok I’ll pay for a retest - oh your wasting your money - next results absolutely fine and crucially the originally ****-up was explainable which to be fair not only were they polite about it ‘you were right to stick to your guns etc’ they learned that certain scenarios can ****-up the blood test results 

 

a real victory all around for the comments section (or as I say a simple double-check when the stakes merit it)

 

all these people I’ve saved from going on unnecessary medication (and the side-effects) by bringing about a change in practice (albeit possibly at a local level) by being a foil-hatter

 

 

 

 

 

 

my only slight disappointment was that the change in practice was not rolled-out via the medium of a TikTok dance 😡

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ulysses]

34 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

my own situation non-covid related - blood taken told I needed to go on lifetime medication - my reaction - I’m not saying I disbelieve the results but I want another blood test checked as going on lifetime medication (harmless or not) is a big deal to me especially as I don’t have the relevant symptoms - oh no sir you’ve reading the comments section etc - ok I’ll pay for a retest - oh your wasting your money - next results absolutely fine and crucially the originally ****-up was explainable which to be fair not only were they polite about it ‘you were right to stick to your guns etc’ they learned that certain scenarios can ****-up the blood test results 

 

 

 

But in fairness, you're not presenting me with something new here.  You didn't go to the comments section.  You got another professional test done.  I've done the same.  That's not tinfoil hat-wearing.

 

Tinfoil hat-wearing is when you persuade yourself that you can't trust the experts, so you'll trust someone instead who has no knowledge at all.  If you got a lump or a dodgy mole on your skin who would you consult?  Your GP and a dermatologist?  Or me, @Ked and @i wish jj was my dad?  You know the answer to that as well as I do.

 

By the way, here's the nearest you'll get to a conspiracy theory from me.  I'd bet a few quid that most of the ****ers pumping out their YouTube quackery are all quietly doing the same thing you did and I did, and not a tinfoil hat in sight while they're doing it.  It ain't about the conspiracy, or the politics.  It's about the clicks, the views and the earnings.  Follow the money.