Excess Deaths

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

We've all come down with COVID symptoms since we were in Edinburgh last weekend, I've not tested and my symptoms are pretty mild but my son has it bad, does anyone test now?

The Mrs tested positive today. She's becoming more ill by the hour. I've been fecked since December the 3rd. Only started to recover the last week and now I'll probably have covid.

 

Due back at work, Monday.

[Gizmo]

4 hours ago, Day@theraces said:

 

Glad you haven't then. A vaccine rolled out within a year gave me the fear and I assume others. But as long as it works then we are all happy.

 

If you thought the testing and manufacturing were quick, the actual vaccine candidate for the AstraZeneca vaccine was reportedly created within a day of receiving the SARS-CoV-2 sequence.

[AlimOzturk]

I was badly abused, laughed at and called a vaccine denier/covid denier by several prominent posters on this forum. Simply for daring to question the validity of constantly locking down an entire nation and forcing vaccines on them. 
 

Fat first when the virus first appeared j felt locking down was a sensible approach as we simply had no idea what we were dealing with. We seen folk literally collapsing and dying in the streets of China and deaths piling up in Italy and their health system being overwhelmed. It seemed sensible to lock down initially and get a grip of what was happening. 
 

What then transpired was a whole heap of corruption and mismanagement. It was very evident early on that the folk effected by this virus and most at risk of dying was the elderly and vulnerable in society. The young and healthier folk weren’t nearly as likely to die or suffer terribly from this. Thus by this point locking down an entire nation seemed completely unnecessary; it almost felt like agendas being were pushed. Sadly, lots of folk were more than happy sitting at home, drinking wine collecting their furlough whilst forfeiting their freedoms. 

Then the corruption. PPE scandals, 40 billion pounds on a completely ineffective test and trace app, businesses collapsing due to lockdowns, MPs partying away laughing at the plebs adhering to the rules…mental health issues on the rise, NHS waiting list on the rise, cancer deaths on the rise, heart attacks on the rise..

 

Then the vaccine extremism came. Everyone and their dug pushed this and treated folk who didn’t want to put experimental drugs into their systems like some mad vaccine denier. Such to the extent of threats of social exclusion. You couldn’t even get into a Hearts game without a ****ing vaccine certificate. Despite being young and healthy. They even wanted to vaccine young kids who didn’t even get effected by the virus ffs. 
 

The media reaction to covid 19 was nothing short of scaremongering. Despite never being depressed before or since, I suffered terribly due to the constant negativity and media reporting about how everything was ****ed. Such to the extent I have attempted to block this period out from my mind. 
 

What is funny is you hear nothing about it now. As if it never happened. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

5 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I've never met anyone who regrets getting the Covid-19 vaccine.  I've never met anyone who regrets getting any vaccine.

there was one poster on here who posted that their son was having an adverse experience post-vaccine

 

ive never actually met them tho and they didn’t explicitly state they or their son regretted getting it 

 

I have met in the real life one or two who have regretted getting the covid vaccine one of who were at the front of the queue beating the let’s all get the vaccine to save the world drum 

 

significant neurological issues now albeit thankfully (very slowly) improving

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

the ‘it’s covid or after affects of covid that causing excess deaths’ falls on its arse for the countries who had low incidence of covid but still have high excess deaths now

 

similarly while it doesn’t prove anything without further investigation - the countries who had lower take up of the vaccine have lower/no excess deaths now

 

the line about nhs delays etc causing excess deaths falls on it arse for the younger age groups who generally wouldn’t be ill so generally wouldn’t need the nhs so a delay of 5 years wouldn’t matter to them as they wouldn’t normally be ill - but still excess deaths in these younger age groups - fair enough in the slightly older age groups where people are starting to get ill and losing the early intervention they would normally have 

 

all subject to proper and consistent reporting of numbers obviously

 

 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

8 hours ago, escobri said:

We need more dancing NHS workers imo.

not sure I agree mate

 

a key indicator of the nhs being overwhelmed is a tsunami of dancing nurses on Tiktok so the relative absence of this means everything’s all under control now 😃👍

 

 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

35 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I was badly abused, laughed at and called a vaccine denier/covid denier by several prominent posters on this forum. Simply for daring to question the validity of constantly locking down an entire nation and forcing vaccines on them. 
 

Fat first when the virus first appeared j felt locking down was a sensible approach as we simply had no idea what we were dealing with. We seen folk literally collapsing and dying in the streets of China and deaths piling up in Italy and their health system being overwhelmed. It seemed sensible to lock down initially and get a grip of what was happening. 
 

What then transpired was a whole heap of corruption and mismanagement. It was very evident early on that the folk effected by this virus and most at risk of dying was the elderly and vulnerable in society. The young and healthier folk weren’t nearly as likely to die or suffer terribly from this. Thus by this point locking down an entire nation seemed completely unnecessary; it almost felt like agendas being were pushed. Sadly, lots of folk were more than happy sitting at home, drinking wine collecting their furlough whilst forfeiting their freedoms. 

Then the corruption. PPE scandals, 40 billion pounds on a completely ineffective test and trace app, businesses collapsing due to lockdowns, MPs partying away laughing at the plebs adhering to the rules…mental health issues on the rise, NHS waiting list on the rise, cancer deaths on the rise, heart attacks on the rise..

 

Then the vaccine extremism came. Everyone and their dug pushed this and treated folk who didn’t want to put experimental drugs into their systems like some mad vaccine denier. Such to the extent of threats of social exclusion. You couldn’t even get into a Hearts game without a ****ing vaccine certificate. Despite being young and healthy. They even wanted to vaccine young kids who didn’t even get effected by the virus ffs. 
 

The media reaction to covid 19 was nothing short of scaremongering. Despite never being depressed before or since, I suffered terribly due to the constant negativity and media reporting about how everything was ****ed. Such to the extent I have attempted to block this period out from my mind. 
 

What is funny is you hear nothing about it now. As if it never happened. 

I think it was you who selfishly put everyone’s granny at risk by going out for an ‘extra’ run one day and then ended up falling during it

 

fair play for confessing and taking it in good spirits and a lesson not to be so selfish and reckless - the actions of the scum of the earth and an absolute covidiot

Yup all these posters who were beside themselves with grief trying to ‘save even just one life’ don’t seem that bothered about the excess deaths - pretty much a total absence of spreadsheets and graphs

 

all while Matt Hancock was discussing with his mates how next ‘to scare the pants off the public’ or words to that affect and when the optimal time would be to release the next variant 

 

    ☹️
 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

6 hours ago, Ked said:

 

 

I've never been right since my booster.

 

Presumably you don’t regret getting it though - right ?

 

some conspiracy nut jobs grifters etc made up some figures about people with sounding like a similar experience to you

 

get the vaccine / booster = f****d

 

followed up by a dose of the covid = double-f****d

 

as I say the sources just grifters trying to take money off the weak-willed and feckless so probably just a coincidence

 

 

[AlimOzturk]

38 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

I think it was you who selfishly put everyone’s granny at risk by going out for an ‘extra’ run one day and then ended up falling during it

 

fair play for confessing and taking it in good spirits and a lesson not to be so selfish and reckless - the actions of the scum of the earth and an absolute covidiot

Yup all these posters who were beside themselves with grief trying to ‘save even just one life’ don’t seem that bothered about the excess deaths - pretty much a total absence of spreadsheets and graphs

 

all while Matt Hancock was discussing with his mates how next ‘to scare the pants off the public’ or words to that affect and when the optimal time would be to release the next variant 

 

    ☹️
 

 

 

This was me. I actually broke my iPhone in the process. Suppose i got what I deserved eh? 😂

 

The same folk who will be roaming about the street now, no vaccine boosters, no masks, no ****s given about social distancing ect called me and others selfish for having the audacity to question what was going on at the time. Most likely frightened that we could ruin their cozy little furlough scheme. 
 

Has covid suddenly disappeared?

[i wish jj was my dad]

6 hours ago, Ked said:

 

44% increase in excess deaths.

That's worth talking about.

And there could be many reasons.

Rationality Uly ffs .

Subtle but vulgar .

There's so many pointers to bullshit and any questioning of it you try to frame like it's ufo shit.

Snide c9mments is a bit pish

Why wouldn't you look at with rationality, particularly if you want to understand and learn?

It was shit and all decisions had consequences but when it came down to it they had to stop the NHS being overwhelmed and the prospect of many, many more becoming ill and dying. 

As has been pointed out, the number of times that govts opened up and then had to retreat because infections were increasing shows how difficult a balancing act it was. It's easy for folk who had no responsibility to throw shite and even identify examples of how it adversely affected individuals but literally hundreds of thousands died and I'd dread to think how many more it actually could have been. And I say that as someone who was never worried about becoming ill myself. 

Of course the pharmaceutical companies will have made a wedge out of it all but if you have evidence to say it was all some big conspiracy put it out there.  

 

[Taffin]

COVID was the absolute swindle of our ages.

 

[mrcrisps]

Rarely has a thread been so effective at sorting posters into 2 quite distinct groups.

[i wish jj was my dad]

16 minutes ago, mrcrisps said:

Rarely has a thread been so effective at sorting posters into 2 quite distinct groups.

What are the groups out of interest? 

I think govts in UK fecked up, UKG was dysfunctional, constitutional spats between WM and devolved administrations was unforgiveable, decisions such as two hour time slots in pubs and emptying them at 10.00 showed no grasp of actual human behaviour and a load of chancers cashed in on the opportunity to get rich. 

But I don't believe any of it was premeditated or some grand conspiracy. Just shit politicians completely out of their depth and often unable to help themselves from making decisions based ideology and opportunism. 

[Craig_]

Pretty sure a decent chunk of those excess deaths will be as a result of the f-ing nick of people these days. Enormous land whales waddling around in leisure wear, vapes, energy drinks, McDonald's delivered to the house, shitey sugary alcohol, processed foods, zero exercise, Qashqai on the motability. 

 

Not to mention the utter neglect of the health service, social care, mental health provision etc. 

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

Pretty sure a decent chunk of those excess deaths will be as a result of the f-ing nick of people these days. Enormous land whales waddling around in leisure wear, vapes, energy drinks, McDonald's delivered to the house, shitey sugary alcohol, processed foods, zero exercise, Qashqai on the motability. 

 

Not to mention the utter neglect of the health service, social care, mental health provision etc. 

 

I still think getting folk into shape between the start of COVID and the go-live of the vaccines would have done far more good for the country both in terms of health, and wealth rather than lockdowns and furlough.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but using it. I'd have gone:

 

- immediate lockdown and furlough for 2 weeks for everyone to see what was going on

 

- Everyone back to work, a basic free exercise plan and kit issues to every household. Anyone who was at risk due to weight advised to take extreme care until they'd reduced that.

 

- Focus far more resource on those vulnerable due to illness

 

- Continue as we were

 

(Yes, I know, if only it were that easy)

Edited January 6 by Taffin

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 hours ago, Day@theraces said:

Wasn't cancer screening down during lockdowns.perhaps a good number of people being diagnosed too late.

 

Wasn't only cancer screening but near enough everything.

I went 2 years without any heart or diabetic check-ups, fortunately my heart was ok but my diabetes was all over the place and it took a while before my blood glucose levels came back down.

 

There must have been thousands of other people who weren't as fortunate and their heart, lung, liver, kidney or whatever condition worsened over lockdowns to the point that there was nothing more could be done for them.

[flogel41]

9 hours ago, Ked said:

Mmm.

Yes I could understand that if it was excess deaths amongst the poor the elderly or those who were on benefits mate.

The data show younger healthy males heart attacks rose 44%.

That just one of the stats.

It's worth reading and I'm not going to post my readings of the report and that is why I just posted the link.

It's the lancet .

I'd prefer to hear others interpretation just because I'm prone to a mindset of what's seen as rightbwing.

 

I’ve read the report but not all the comments on the thread, I also don’t really know if you are right wing or if that’s really relevant. I would say this is a very high level summary of data and even the writers themselves advise more in depth study before drawing conclusions.

 

i would say that it doesn’t say 44% of “young, healthy “ people that’s your interpretation.

 

There is an increase in excess deaths every winter across all age groups, the figures are not corrected for this which is also worth noting given the period used in the data. 
 

Ultimately the cause will be multi factorial as stated and pressure on NHS services likely significant factor. Not just cancer screening and hospital services but GP availability also. Monitoring and treatment of cardiovascular risk factors is hugely important in preventing excess deaths from cardiovascular causes and i think we probably all have some experience of how hard it is to get a GP appointment.

 

its also worth noting that the ONS has been publishing a paper regularly on the effects of socioeconomic deprivation on mortality for years, long before covid, and the deaths due to cardiovascular disease etc in these groups has been increasing since around 2004 I think.

 

if you want more details go to ONS, they openly publish all their data and you can submit requests under freedom of info if there is specific info you want.

 

sorry this is now too long but I guess my point is whilst covid in one way or another is definitely a factor it has accelerated a trend that was already there which is the real scandal.

[indianajones]

4 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I was badly abused, laughed at and called a vaccine denier/covid denier by several prominent posters on this forum. Simply for daring to question the validity of constantly locking down an entire nation and forcing vaccines on them. 
 

Fat first when the virus first appeared j felt locking down was a sensible approach as we simply had no idea what we were dealing with. We seen folk literally collapsing and dying in the streets of China and deaths piling up in Italy and their health system being overwhelmed. It seemed sensible to lock down initially and get a grip of what was happening. 
 

What then transpired was a whole heap of corruption and mismanagement. It was very evident early on that the folk effected by this virus and most at risk of dying was the elderly and vulnerable in society. The young and healthier folk weren’t nearly as likely to die or suffer terribly from this. Thus by this point locking down an entire nation seemed completely unnecessary; it almost felt like agendas being were pushed. Sadly, lots of folk were more than happy sitting at home, drinking wine collecting their furlough whilst forfeiting their freedoms. 

Then the corruption. PPE scandals, 40 billion pounds on a completely ineffective test and trace app, businesses collapsing due to lockdowns, MPs partying away laughing at the plebs adhering to the rules…mental health issues on the rise, NHS waiting list on the rise, cancer deaths on the rise, heart attacks on the rise..

 

Then the vaccine extremism came. Everyone and their dug pushed this and treated folk who didn’t want to put experimental drugs into their systems like some mad vaccine denier. Such to the extent of threats of social exclusion. You couldn’t even get into a Hearts game without a ****ing vaccine certificate. Despite being young and healthy. They even wanted to vaccine young kids who didn’t even get effected by the virus ffs. 
 

The media reaction to covid 19 was nothing short of scaremongering. Despite never being depressed before or since, I suffered terribly due to the constant negativity and media reporting about how everything was ****ed. Such to the extent I have attempted to block this period out from my mind. 
 

What is funny is you hear nothing about it now. As if it never happened. 

 

People don't like admitting they were wrong Alim and the vast majority of folk like you and I aren't folk to say 'I told you so'. 

 

Biggest sweep under the carpet in history. Zero accountability for failed leadership and even worse, the reason the virus exists in the first place. 

 

Very little accountability from those vaccine militiants too. 

[hughesie27]

4 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I was badly abused, laughed at and called a vaccine denier/covid denier by several prominent posters on this forum. Simply for daring to question the validity of constantly locking down an entire nation and forcing vaccines on them. 
 

Fat first when the virus first appeared j felt locking down was a sensible approach as we simply had no idea what we were dealing with. We seen folk literally collapsing and dying in the streets of China and deaths piling up in Italy and their health system being overwhelmed. It seemed sensible to lock down initially and get a grip of what was happening. 
 

What then transpired was a whole heap of corruption and mismanagement. It was very evident early on that the folk effected by this virus and most at risk of dying was the elderly and vulnerable in society. The young and healthier folk weren’t nearly as likely to die or suffer terribly from this. Thus by this point locking down an entire nation seemed completely unnecessary; it almost felt like agendas being were pushed. Sadly, lots of folk were more than happy sitting at home, drinking wine collecting their furlough whilst forfeiting their freedoms. 

Then the corruption. PPE scandals, 40 billion pounds on a completely ineffective test and trace app, businesses collapsing due to lockdowns, MPs partying away laughing at the plebs adhering to the rules…mental health issues on the rise, NHS waiting list on the rise, cancer deaths on the rise, heart attacks on the rise..

 

Then the vaccine extremism came. Everyone and their dug pushed this and treated folk who didn’t want to put experimental drugs into their systems like some mad vaccine denier. Such to the extent of threats of social exclusion. You couldn’t even get into a Hearts game without a ****ing vaccine certificate. Despite being young and healthy. They even wanted to vaccine young kids who didn’t even get effected by the virus ffs. 
 

The media reaction to covid 19 was nothing short of scaremongering. Despite never being depressed before or since, I suffered terribly due to the constant negativity and media reporting about how everything was ****ed. Such to the extent I have attempted to block this period out from my mind. 
 

What is funny is you hear nothing about it now. As if it never happened. 

4 years on and still doesn't understand what the purpose of the vaccine was. Impressive.

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

10 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

People don't like admitting they were wrong Alim and the vast majority of folk like you and I aren't folk to say 'I told you so'. 

 

Biggest sweep under the carpet in history. Zero accountability for failed leadership and even worse, the reason the virus exists in the first place. 

 

Very little accountability from those vaccine militiants too. 

There are public inquiries in motion which are showing up the leadership for what it was and should hopefully avoid some similar feck ups when the next public health emergency inevitably arrives. 

I can't imagine what it was like for the public health officials who were trying to advise their political masters and copping flak and abuse from the public for their efforts. Right or wrong those guys did their best, just the same as the ordinary Joe in the wards or dishing out vaccines did. 

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

4 years on and still doesn't understand what the purpose of the vaccine was. Impressive.

 

 

What was the purpose?

 

In fairness the messaging was mixed; it started as being presented as making your symptoms less severe and then became about reducing the spread.

 

It was also critical (to the point of coercion) to get the boosters to stop those effects diminishing.

 

And yet, COVID hasn't gone anywhere but the boosters and passes have? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

What was the purpose?

 

In fairness the messaging was mixed; it started as being presented as making your symptoms less severe and then became about reducing the spread.

 

It was also critical (to the point of coercion) to get the boosters to stop those effects diminishing.

 

And yet, COVID hasn't gone anywhere but the boosters and passes have? 🤷🏻‍♂️

You pretty much got it in 1. It reduced the severity of your symptoms/hospital admissions and fie the young who are better equipped to handle the harsher symptoms it reduced your chance of getting it in the first place and as a result reduced the spread to those more at risk. 

The boosters are still being dished out. They're given alongside the Flu jab for various age groups and higher risk folk. 

I can get them through my work but never bothered this year. As tbh like you suggest the Xovid thing seems to have passed/been forgotten about. 

That said my uncle got all the boosters up until this year and had covid twice during that time with minimal symptoms. A few weeks ago he was taken into Hospital for 3 or 4 days as a result of Covid. He hadn't had his jags this year for it.  All anecdotal stories but I'm not really up for churning through the latest biased (from both sides) research on Covid in 2024.

 

I will say though that during Covid a lot was said about the mental health impact on people and that suicide rates would sky rocket because of Lockdowns. At the time it was found that it had 0 impact on the number of suicides.

[Cade]

Do we have breakdowns by age group?

How many of these excess deaths are baby boomers? The figures could be just the natural ending of that generation who are now all in their 70s/80s.

If the excess deaths are people in their 50s/60s then it could be the result of living it large in the 1970/80s when heavy drinking and smoking were commonplace.

Also in that age bracket are the first major wave of hard drug users.

If the excess deaths are people in their 40s then it could very well be the long term effects of the 90's drug culture.

 

We need much more context.

Statistics are blind. They only count things and do not provide context.

As a famous man once said: "there are lies, damned lies and statistics"

[Rupert Pupkin]

Now I’m not saying it’s the cause as pretty much anything could have happened,but it doesn’t sit right with me..

A friend from the racing complained about never feeling right a couple of weeks after his 2nd jab…. He died a few months later, cancer..

My best mate, got his booster to go on holiday, he had a heart attack and died on that holiday..

🥲🥲🥲

Edited January 6 by Rupert Pupkin

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

You pretty much got it in 1. It reduced the severity of your symptoms/hospital admissions and fie the young who are better equipped to handle the harsher symptoms it reduced your chance of getting it in the first place and as a result reduced the spread to those more at risk. 

The boosters are still being dished out. They're given alongside the Flu jab for various age groups and higher risk folk. 

I can get them through my work but never bothered this year. As tbh like you suggest the Xovid thing seems to have passed/been forgotten about. 

That said my uncle got all the boosters up until this year and had covid twice during that time with minimal symptoms. A few weeks ago he was taken into Hospital for 3 or 4 days as a result of Covid. He hadn't had his jags this year for it.  All anecdotal stories but I'm not really up for churning through the latest biased (from both sides) research on Covid in 2024.

 

I will say though that during Covid a lot was said about the mental health impact on people and that suicide rates would sky rocket because of Lockdowns. At the time it was found that it had 0 impact on the number of suicides.

 

Good post, cheers. Good that the majority no longer need their risk of severe illness or of passing it on reduced. Or at least the cost-benefit has swung it favour of that 👍

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Do we have breakdowns by age group?

How many of these excess deaths are baby boomers? The figures could be just the natural ending of that generation who are now all in their 70s/80s.

If the excess deaths are people in their 50s/60s then it could be the result of living it large in the 1970/80s when heavy drinking and smoking were commonplace.

Also in that age bracket are the first major wave of hard drug users.

If the excess deaths are people in their 40s then it could very well be the long term effects of the 90's drug culture.

 

We need much more context.

Statistics are blind. They only count things and do not provide context.

As a famous man once said: "there are lies, damned lies and statistics"

 

I'm still waiting for those for that context from the COVID years

[indianajones]

14 minutes ago, Cade said:

Do we have breakdowns by age group?

How many of these excess deaths are baby boomers? The figures could be just the natural ending of that generation who are now all in their 70s/80s.

If the excess deaths are people in their 50s/60s then it could be the result of living it large in the 1970/80s when heavy drinking and smoking were commonplace.

Also in that age bracket are the first major wave of hard drug users.

If the excess deaths are people in their 40s then it could very well be the long term effects of the 90's drug culture.

 

We need much more context.

Statistics are blind. They only count things and do not provide context.

As a famous man once said: "there are lies, damned lies and statistics"

 

Statistics are blind. 

 

They are still VERY unexplained from the covid years if people are being very honest about it. The death and infection rates were hugely questionable.  

[escobri]

13 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

You pretty much got it in 1. It reduced the severity of your symptoms/hospital admissions and fie the young who are better equipped to handle the harsher symptoms it reduced your chance of getting it in the first place and as a result reduced the spread to those more at risk. 

The boosters are still being dished out. They're given alongside the Flu jab for various age groups and higher risk folk. 

I can get them through my work but never bothered this year. As tbh like you suggest the Xovid thing seems to have passed/been forgotten about. 

That said my uncle got all the boosters up until this year and had covid twice during that time with minimal symptoms. A few weeks ago he was taken into Hospital for 3 or 4 days as a result of Covid. He hadn't had his jags this year for it.  All anecdotal stories but I'm not really up for churning through the latest biased (from both sides) research on Covid in 2024.

 

I will say though that during Covid a lot was said about the mental health impact on people and that suicide rates would sky rocket because of Lockdowns. At the time it was found that it had 0 impact on the number of suicides.

Good post and it shows how people remember the past in different ways. Can't believe you and your uncle are putting other people's life's at risk by not getting boosted

You are like a walking serial killer 🤣

[Bret the Hitman Hearts]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

No, I'm saying what I said in my post above.  When people start talking about government conspiracies to control people, and psyops and the like, then they part company with rationality.  Sorry if you perceive that as a go at you rather than the words.

 

Calling it a psyop was maybe a bit dramatic of me, but the "nudge unit" is real. It's not about mind-control - more like subtly influencing people's behaviour.  I personally feel like I was psychologically manipulated into taking the first two covid vaccines. I was adamant that I wasn't going to, and then they started all the "if you don't, you'll be more likely to spread covid and kill people" stuff. If I had to guess what the "Behavioural Insights Team" are working on these days... probably how to get people to walk to the shops instead of drive, or how to encourage people to install heat pumps in their homes.

[escobri]

19 minutes ago, Cade said:

Do we have breakdowns by age group?

How many of these excess deaths are baby boomers? The figures could be just the natural ending of that generation who are now all in their 70s/80s.

If the excess deaths are people in their 50s/60s then it could be the result of living it large in the 1970/80s when heavy drinking and smoking were commonplace.

Also in that age bracket are the first major wave of hard drug users.

If the excess deaths are people in their 40s then it could very well be the long term effects of the 90's drug culture.

 

We need much more context.

Statistics are blind. They only count things and do not provide context.

As a famous man once said: "there are lies, damned lies and statistics"

A breakdown of vaccination status perhaps or is that not possible after the "winter of death".

[escobri]

3 minutes ago, Bret the Hitman Hearts said:

 

Calling it a psyop was maybe a bit dramatic of me, but the "nudge unit" is real. It's not about mind-control - more like subtly influencing people's behaviour.  I personally feel like I was psychologically manipulated into taking the first two covid vaccines. I was adamant that I wasn't going to, and then they started all the "if you don't, you'll be more likely to spread covid and kill people" stuff. If I had to guess what the "Behavioural Insights Team" are working on these days... probably how to get people to walk to the shops instead of drive, or how to encourage people to install heat pumps in their homes.

People were coerced into to taking them without informed consent given. I still remember wee nippy getting a hard on when she announced the decision to experiment with the little ones. 🤬🤬

 

[151]

5 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I was badly abused, laughed at and called a vaccine denier/covid denier by several prominent posters on this forum. Simply for daring to question the validity of constantly locking down an entire nation and forcing vaccines on them. 
 

Fat first when the virus first appeared j felt locking down was a sensible approach as we simply had no idea what we were dealing with. We seen folk literally collapsing and dying in the streets of China and deaths piling up in Italy and their health system being overwhelmed. It seemed sensible to lock down initially and get a grip of what was happening. 
 

What then transpired was a whole heap of corruption and mismanagement. It was very evident early on that the folk effected by this virus and most at risk of dying was the elderly and vulnerable in society. The young and healthier folk weren’t nearly as likely to die or suffer terribly from this. Thus by this point locking down an entire nation seemed completely unnecessary; it almost felt like agendas being were pushed. Sadly, lots of folk were more than happy sitting at home, drinking wine collecting their furlough whilst forfeiting their freedoms. 

Then the corruption. PPE scandals, 40 billion pounds on a completely ineffective test and trace app, businesses collapsing due to lockdowns, MPs partying away laughing at the plebs adhering to the rules…mental health issues on the rise, NHS waiting list on the rise, cancer deaths on the rise, heart attacks on the rise..

 

Then the vaccine extremism came. Everyone and their dug pushed this and treated folk who didn’t want to put experimental drugs into their systems like some mad vaccine denier. Such to the extent of threats of social exclusion. You couldn’t even get into a Hearts game without a ****ing vaccine certificate. Despite being young and healthy. They even wanted to vaccine young kids who didn’t even get effected by the virus ffs. 
 

The media reaction to covid 19 was nothing short of scaremongering. Despite never being depressed before or since, I suffered terribly due to the constant negativity and media reporting about how everything was ****ed. Such to the extent I have attempted to block this period out from my mind. 
 

What is funny is you hear nothing about it now. As if it never happened. 

 

It was when they started inflating the death figures that it was clear it was scaremongering. 

 

Also, there were no flu deaths recorded but now there were Covid deaths in it's place.

 

We lost 2 years of our lives because the same number of people died as every other year on record.

 

It honestly baffles me there are still people walking about with masks on, still worried about Covid and being ill. Folk do realise we are dying? Look after your body and stop relying on some pompous arsehole on the TV to tell you what is best for your health.

[151]

7 minutes ago, Bret the Hitman Hearts said:

 

Calling it a psyop was maybe a bit dramatic of me, but the "nudge unit" is real. It's not about mind-control - more like subtly influencing people's behaviour.  I personally feel like I was psychologically manipulated into taking the first two covid vaccines. I was adamant that I wasn't going to, and then they started all the "if you don't, you'll be more likely to spread covid and kill people" stuff. If I had to guess what the "Behavioural Insights Team" are working on these days... probably how to get people to walk to the shops instead of drive, or how to encourage people to install heat pumps in their homes.

 

So you believed what someone on the TV told you and went and put something into your body, to help someone else? 

 

I wouldn't really blame anyone else for that mate tbh. 

 

If someone else is vaccinated they are 'protected'.

[hughesie27]

4 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

 

We lost 2 years of our lives because the same number of people died as every other year on record.

 

 

Hmmm

[Ray Gin]

46 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What was the purpose?

 

In fairness the messaging was mixed; it started as being presented as making your symptoms less severe and then became about reducing the spread.

 

It was also critical (to the point of coercion) to get the boosters to stop those effects diminishing.

 

And yet, COVID hasn't gone anywhere but the boosters and passes have? 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Boosters are still being given to people most at risk. It's likely only been scaled back due to the costs involved.

 

2 of my friends (30s and 40s) have caught covid recently and been absolutely floored by it this time after not having had a booster for 2 years. 

 

My colleague's sister (mid 60s) refused a booster this time and ended up in hospital.

[AlimOzturk]

59 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

4 years on and still doesn't understand what the purpose of the vaccine was. Impressive.

 

I absolutely do know what the purpose of vaccines are. You clearly don’t know what the purpose and point of my post was.

Forcing, fear mongering and socially excluding folk who didn’t want it was disgusting and you know it. 
 

 

[Spellczech]

20 minutes ago, Bret the Hitman Hearts said:

 

Calling it a psyop was maybe a bit dramatic of me, but the "nudge unit" is real. It's not about mind-control - more like subtly influencing people's behaviour.  I personally feel like I was psychologically manipulated into taking the first two covid vaccines. I was adamant that I wasn't going to, and then they started all the "if you don't, you'll be more likely to spread covid and kill people" stuff. If I had to guess what the "Behavioural Insights Team" are working on these days... probably how to get people to walk to the shops instead of drive, or how to encourage people to install heat pumps in their homes.

A friend of mine refused to get the jabs and the only thing he is resentful about is that other countries wouldn't let him visit without a Covid test etc when the rest of us just had to present our covid passport to show jabs. 

 

Personally I regard it as usual Govt bumbling - they were slow to react initially which made them over-react latterly. 

 

I have had breathlessness since Covid and the NHS did some testing on me, but I have no idea if it was the jabs, of which I had 3 or Covid which I've had 3 times...

 

My mate who is unjabbed has also had Covid 3 times and he had it far worse than me on each occasion, but again that could just be his physiology. I'm not going to start making up conspiracy theories about it...

Edited January 6 by Spellczech

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I was badly abused, laughed at and called a vaccine denier/covid denier by several prominent posters on this forum. Simply for daring to question the validity of constantly locking down an entire nation and forcing vaccines on them. 
 

Fat first when the virus first appeared j felt locking down was a sensible approach as we simply had no idea what we were dealing with. We seen folk literally collapsing and dying in the streets of China and deaths piling up in Italy and their health system being overwhelmed. It seemed sensible to lock down initially and get a grip of what was happening. 
 

What then transpired was a whole heap of corruption and mismanagement. It was very evident early on that the folk effected by this virus and most at risk of dying was the elderly and vulnerable in society. The young and healthier folk weren’t nearly as likely to die or suffer terribly from this. Thus by this point locking down an entire nation seemed completely unnecessary; it almost felt like agendas being were pushed. Sadly, lots of folk were more than happy sitting at home, drinking wine collecting their furlough whilst forfeiting their freedoms. 

Then the corruption. PPE scandals, 40 billion pounds on a completely ineffective test and trace app, businesses collapsing due to lockdowns, MPs partying away laughing at the plebs adhering to the rules…mental health issues on the rise, NHS waiting list on the rise, cancer deaths on the rise, heart attacks on the rise..

 

Then the vaccine extremism came. Everyone and their dug pushed this and treated folk who didn’t want to put experimental drugs into their systems like some mad vaccine denier. Such to the extent of threats of social exclusion. You couldn’t even get into a Hearts game without a ****ing vaccine certificate. Despite being young and healthy. They even wanted to vaccine young kids who didn’t even get effected by the virus ffs. 
 

The media reaction to covid 19 was nothing short of scaremongering. Despite never being depressed before or since, I suffered terribly due to the constant negativity and media reporting about how everything was ****ed. Such to the extent I have attempted to block this period out from my mind. 
 

What is funny is you hear nothing about it now. As if it never happened. 

Good summary 

5 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

the ‘it’s covid or after affects of covid that causing excess deaths’ falls on its arse for the countries who had low incidence of covid but still have high excess deaths now

 

similarly while it doesn’t prove anything without further investigation - the countries who had lower take up of the vaccine have lower/no excess deaths now

 

the line about nhs delays etc causing excess deaths falls on it arse for the younger age groups who generally wouldn’t be ill so generally wouldn’t need the nhs so a delay of 5 years wouldn’t matter to them as they wouldn’t normally be ill - but still excess deaths in these younger age groups - fair enough in the slightly older age groups where people are starting to get ill and losing the early intervention they would normally have 

 

all subject to proper and consistent reporting of numbers obviously

 

 

 

 

Yep 👍 

12 minutes ago, escobri said:

People were coerced into to taking them without informed consent given. I still remember wee nippy getting a hard on when she announced the decision to experiment with the little ones. 🤬🤬

 

Yep mass coercion . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

43 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

it reduced your chance of getting it in the first place

No it did not 

[AlimOzturk]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No it did not 

He claims I know nothing about vaccines and comes out with this nonsense

 

It certainly didn’t stop me from catching covid. It might have dulled the symptoms but I still felt like shit. 
 

There is no proof that it stopped transmission. 

[hughesie27]

6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No it did not 

The CDC disagrees.

 

• COVID-19 vaccines provide sustained protection against severe disease and death, the purpose of the vaccine.
• The protection against infection tends to be modest and sometimes short-lived, but the vaccines are very effective at protecting against severe illness.

https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/whats-new/5-things-you-should-know.html

Edited January 6 by hughesie27

[Spellczech]

20 minutes ago, escobri said:

People were coerced into to taking them without informed consent given. I still remember wee nippy getting a hard on when she announced the decision to experiment with the little ones. 🤬🤬

 

Are people that malleable? If they were then the UK would not have voted for Brexit, they'd have gone for the status quo. 

 

Russians vote for strongman despots because stability is preferable to anarchy even for those who don't have a huge amount to lose...

 

People took the vaccines for all sort of reasons but I would suspect the main one was simply that "it might help".

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

The CDC disagrees.

 

• COVID-19 vaccines provide sustained protection against severe disease and death, the purpose of the vaccine.
• The protection against infection tends to be modest and sometimes short-lived, but the vaccines are very effective at protecting against severe illness.

https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/whats-new/5-things-you-should-know.html

No my point was that it stopped transmission . It didn’t 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

He claims I know nothing about vaccines and comes out with this nonsense

 

It certainly didn’t stop me from catching covid. It might have dulled the symptoms but I still felt like shit. 
 

There is no proof that it stopped transmission. 

Yep 👍 

[henrysmithsgloves]

COVID coming over here, stealing jobs from flu/cold viruses.....

[hughesie27]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No my point was that it stopped transmission . It didn’t 

 

11 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No it did not 

I said it reduced transmission, not stopped outright. You replied to me saying it never.

[escobri]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Are people that malleable? If they were then the UK would not have voted for Brexit, they'd have gone for the status quo. 

 

Russians vote for strongman despots because stability is preferable to anarchy even for those who don't have a huge amount to lose...

 

People took the vaccines for all sort of reasons but I would suspect the main one was simply that "it might help".

Why not bring Isreal into it aswell? Get the hat trick 🤣

[AlimOzturk]

7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

The CDC disagrees.

 

• COVID-19 vaccines provide sustained protection against severe disease and death, the purpose of the vaccine.
• The protection against infection tends to be modest and sometimes short-lived, but the vaccines are very effective at protecting against severe illness.

Fair enough I’ll take this at face value. Still doesn’t exclude the behaviour of the vaccine nazis when folk didn’t want to put foreign substances into their bodies. The derision and social stigma they received was rank rotten behaviour and something I’ll never forget. 
 

Plenty “pals” of mine haven’t and will never get spoken to again after they tried to socially embarrass me. 
 

This whole thread is bringing my rage at the situation back and I Might have to bail out for my own sanity. 
 

Edited January 6 by AlimOzturk

[hughesie27]

14 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I absolutely do know what the purpose of vaccines are. You clearly don’t know what the purpose and point of my post was.

Forcing, fear mongering and socially excluding folk who didn’t want it was disgusting and you know it. 
 

 

To what end? What did they achieve by forcing folk to get vaccinated and I to lockdowns which destroyed the economy. Something the Tories ****ing love.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Craig_ said:

Pretty sure a decent chunk of those excess deaths will be as a result of the f-ing nick of people these days. Enormous land whales waddling around in leisure wear, vapes, energy drinks, McDonald's delivered to the house, shitey sugary alcohol, processed foods, zero exercise, Qashqai on the motability. 

 

Not to mention the utter neglect of the health service, social care, mental health provision etc. 

and this is why the uk had higher death rates than most western countries . Obesity was one of the most frequent co morbidities and smoking too which ensured death