il Duce McTarkin Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 19 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Out of curiosity, did you ever meet or know any of the people who were making the decisions during that crazy period from 2020 until the vaccine rollout? Can I plead the fifth here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 5 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: I was wondering where the JKB brain trust were hanging about. Place to be especially if you're chilling out spraffing shite . 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Talking about the brains trust… https://www.politico.eu/article/hydroxychloroquine-could-have-caused-17000-deaths-during-covid-study-finds/?fbclid=IwAR156T4_P6h1b2mVSJ7B2jTyELuOPOK-5E8qKhP3wK2jRes1hWp7tpnsRQM_aem_AQWnRm21ahTserrxOvbEw9YgDvVTo_hdQhuJaUj2JwrzZOgEqw6iLyj4UEP_9AKXeaQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: As it happens, I do know someone who was an advisor but not on health issues. And all joking apart there is no money in the world would I have wanted that responsibility. I wouldn't have wanted it either. We had a national public health emergency committee advising the Government. It was a big group, and as chance would have it I happened to know a handful of people who were on it, including a public health specialist or two. They were about as far from the idea of cloak and dagger government conspiracy as you could imagine. These were regular people with social lives who hated the restrictions and their effects on themselves, their mates and their families. They were advising the government to put in place restrictions that had a direct negative effect on them and their friends and families, and they didn't want to do it, but based on the data and the research they were seeing they were making the recommendations they felt had to be made. Sometimes, the politicians here accepted those recommendations, sometimes they pushed back, and in the end the advisers always accepted that the final decisions on this stuff rested with the elected government. And a lot of the time the government here imposed restrictions that it didn't want to impose, for the simple reason that it didn't want to do put in place unpopular restrictions. But in Ireland, every time we relaxed restrictions the illness, hospitalisation and death rates mushroomed - and politicians knew that if they let death rates grow they'd be booted out of office anyway. So they figured it was better to be unpopular for trying to play things safe than be unpopular for letting people fall ill and die. People can argue all day about whether the restrictions were the right or wrong way to do things if they like, but when they start going on about government conspiracy and control stuff they simply part company with rationality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 3 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: Can I plead the fifth here? Yes. I'm pleading it in a limited way, as you can see above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 46 minutes ago, Day@theraces said: Glad you haven't then. A vaccine rolled out within a year gave me the fear and I assume others. But as long as it works then we are all happy. Well as long as it works surely we are all happy? Are you not happy a vaccine works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 12 minutes ago, Bret the Hitman Hearts said: You've lost me. Are you disputing that the nudge unit is a real thing? No, I'm saying what I said in my post above. When people start talking about government conspiracies to control people, and psyops and the like, then they part company with rationality. Sorry if you perceive that as a go at you rather than the words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said: Well as long as it works surely we are all happy? Are you not happy a vaccine works? I think he's saying it's good that it works but it's not something he'd want to take or would regard as necessary for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 5 minutes ago, Ulysses said: I wouldn't have wanted it either. We had a national public health emergency committee advising the Government. It was a big group, and as chance would have it I happened to know a handful of people who were on it, including a public health specialist or two. They were about as far from the idea of cloak and dagger government conspiracy as you could imagine. These were regular people with social lives who hated the restrictions and their effects on themselves, their mates and their families. They were advising the government to put in place restrictions that had a direct negative effect on them and their friends and families, and they didn't want to do it, but based on the data and the research they were seeing they were making the recommendations they felt had to be made. Sometimes, the politicians here accepted those recommendations, sometimes they pushed back, and in the end the advisers always accepted that the final decisions on this stuff rested with the elected government. And a lot of the time the government here imposed restrictions that it didn't want to impose, for the simple reason that it didn't want to do put in place unpopular restrictions. But in Ireland, every time we relaxed restrictions the illness, hospitalisation and death rates mushroomed - and politicians knew that if they let death rates grow they'd be booted out of office anyway. So they figured it was better to be unpopular for trying to play things safe than be unpopular for letting people fall ill and die. People can argue all day about whether the restrictions were the right or wrong way to do things if they like, but when they start going on about government conspiracy and control stuff they simply part company with rationality. I'll mostly plead the fifth too but I know first hand that you're absolutely spot on here. My favourite part of conspiracy nuts is the level of competency they infer on governments when most of the weird decisions or actions the public becomes aware of is almost always down to simple human incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 minute ago, Ulysses said: I think he's saying it's good that it works but it's not something he'd want to take or would regard as necessary for him. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 8 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: Can I plead the fifth here? Is that because everyone you know the vast majority say fek that. Smells like a rat etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day@theraces Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 6 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said: Well as long as it works surely we are all happy? Are you not happy a vaccine works? How can you make that assumption from my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day@theraces Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Bit ridiculous they were having a piss up in Downing street during lockdown when we were in a pandemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 4 minutes ago, Ulysses said: No, I'm saying what I said in my post above. When people start talking about government conspiracies to control people, and psyops and the like, then they part company with rationality. Sorry if you perceive that as a go at you rather than the words. 44% increase in excess deaths. That's worth talking about. And there could be many reasons. Rationality Uly ffs . Subtle but vulgar . There's so many pointers to bullshit and any questioning of it you try to frame like it's ufo shit. Snide c9mments is a bit pish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 6 minutes ago, Day@theraces said: How can you make that assumption from my post. Looking back I can't from the post to be fair. I suppose it depends on the degree of trust you have in the vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 5 minutes ago, Day@theraces said: Bit ridiculous they were having a piss up in Downing street during lockdown when we were in a pandemic. Absolutely ****in ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Day@theraces said: The vaccine is 100% safe though 😔 Not according to the Surgeon General of Florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irufushi Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, Spellczech said: Everybody gotta die sometime...Only the Daily Mail seems to think that we all want to live to 100 Hopefully it’s soon, right old slog this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 minutes ago, Ked said: 44% increase in excess deaths. That's worth talking about. And there could be many reasons. Rationality Uly ffs . Subtle but vulgar . There's so many pointers to bullshit and any questioning of it you try to frame like it's ufo shit. Snide c9mments is a bit pish I've already said that if people want to discuss what happened or is happening that's sensible, even when they disagree with each other, but once they start banging on about conspiracies to control people they're in irrational territory. That's not my opinion, that's how it actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said: Not according to the Surgeon General of Florida. What about the other 49 Surgeon Generals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, Tazio said: What about the other 49 Surgeon Generals? They'll get there. Patience my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 15 minutes ago, Day@theraces said: Bit ridiculous they were having a piss up in Downing street during lockdown when we were in a pandemic. In fairness, that's a poor reflection on the political classes who were having the piss-up, rather than the public health and scientific experts who were giving the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day@theraces Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said: Not according to the Surgeon General of Florida. I was being sarcastic, although you may also be sarcastic, hard to tell online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day@theraces Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, Ulysses said: In fairness, that's a poor reflection on the political classes who were having the piss-up, rather than the public health and scientific experts who were giving the advice. The ones dishing out the rules with the experts in their ears. Think that should say enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 7 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said: Not according to the Surgeon General of Florida. Who also promoted that thing that would have killed 17,000 people, hydroxychloroquine. At least he didn't recommend injecting people with bleach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 minute ago, Day@theraces said: Think that should say enough. It does. About them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, Ulysses said: Who also promoted that thing that would have killed 17,000 people, hydroxychloroquine. At least he didn't recommend injecting people with bleach. Suggest you do some proper research into hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin and something called Remdesevir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, N Lincs Jambo said: Suggest you do some proper research into hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin and something called Remdesevir. I posted a link further up the thread that Uly got the 17,000 figure from. A report from medical professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 6 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said: Suggest you do some proper research into hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin and something called Remdesevir. Sorry, I went off YouTube when they started bombarding me with ads. I presume watching videos is what you meant by doing proper research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 Just now, Ulysses said: I've already said that if people want to discuss what happened or is happening that's sensible, even when they disagree with each other, but once they start banging on about conspiracies to control people they're in irrational territory. That's not my opinion, that's how it actually is. But it's evident. We were controlled Uly no? Masks, lockdown . I loved the 6 weeks I had off. It showed me how much of my life I worked . That got me thinking too. Off course we are at least manipulated. It's not conspiracy it's just fact . And the excess death rates cannot be disassociated from covid policy side effects. It doesn't matter if you say it's fair enough to discuss bit what exactly is conspiracy theory ? Is it to suppose pharmaceutical and corrupt politicians colluded? I suppose that's a bit far fetched. Is it to wonder how a crook who conned his product as market leader now has a platform for workd health? Just wondering if you think that's up for fair debate or just ramblings ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Not seen that tbf. What I can say is that there have been some amazing results from doctors who decided early on to treat with existing medications rather than wait for some "vaccine". Problem was that the success they had clearly negated the need for EUA for experimental vaccines which were going to make fortunes for their manufacturers unlike the existing, tried, tested and fully authorised drugs such as the ones I mentioned earlier. To make that totally clear, had it been clearly established that existing medications were effective, the whole case for vaccinating the entire globe would have died at the outset. Too many billions of dollars at risk for that outcome I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 minute ago, Ulysses said: Sorry, I went off YouTube when they started bombarding me with ads. I presume watching videos is what you meant by doing proper research. Well if you're relying on YouTube...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, Ked said: I suppose that's a bit far fetched. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, N Lincs Jambo said: Well if you're relying on YouTube...... Isn't that what most slackers use for their "own research"? I wouldn't actually know; I tend to read a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, Ulysses said: Isn't that what most slackers use for their "own research"? I wouldn't actually know; I tend to read a lot. Exactly, me too Uly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 minute ago, N Lincs Jambo said: Not seen that tbf. What I can say is that there have been some amazing results from doctors who decided early on to treat with existing medications rather than wait for some "vaccine". Problem was that the success they had clearly negated the need for EUA for experimental vaccines which were going to make fortunes for their manufacturers unlike the existing, tried, tested and fully authorised drugs such as the ones I mentioned earlier. To make that totally clear, had it been clearly established that existing medications were effective, the whole case for vaccinating the entire globe would have died at the outset. Too many billions of dollars at risk for that outcome I'm afraid. Even if, and it’s a big if, that was the case prevention is always a better course than treatment. The link is on the thread so easy to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 34 minutes ago, Ulysses said: I wouldn't have wanted it either. We had a national public health emergency committee advising the Government. It was a big group, and as chance would have it I happened to know a handful of people who were on it, including a public health specialist or two. They were about as far from the idea of cloak and dagger government conspiracy as you could imagine. These were regular people with social lives who hated the restrictions and their effects on themselves, their mates and their families. They were advising the government to put in place restrictions that had a direct negative effect on them and their friends and families, and they didn't want to do it, but based on the data and the research they were seeing they were making the recommendations they felt had to be made. Sometimes, the politicians here accepted those recommendations, sometimes they pushed back, and in the end the advisers always accepted that the final decisions on this stuff rested with the elected government. And a lot of the time the government here imposed restrictions that it didn't want to impose, for the simple reason that it didn't want to do put in place unpopular restrictions. But in Ireland, every time we relaxed restrictions the illness, hospitalisation and death rates mushroomed - and politicians knew that if they let death rates grow they'd be booted out of office anyway. So they figured it was better to be unpopular for trying to play things safe than be unpopular for letting people fall ill and die. People can argue all day about whether the restrictions were the right or wrong way to do things if they like, but when they start going on about government conspiracy and control stuff they simply part company with rationality. Yip. Some awful decisions were made but they had to decide what the least worst option was. Of course there were political and other motivations at play, with some absolute arseholes making decisions but I can't take seriously any suggestion that state machinery was actively deploying strategies to exercise control over free thinking, libertarians. In the UK we were just unlucky enough to have the worst possible administration in place and a petty turf war between WM and devolved administrations. A feck up beyond recognition but no need to wrap the tinfoil around your heid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, N Lincs Jambo said: Exactly, me too Uly If you say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 2 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Yep. 🤣 Quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, Ulysses said: If you say so. I hope you're not trying to insinuate anything Uly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, Ked said: 🤣 Quality. I cut out the fluff and got to the point. What else d'ya expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, N Lincs Jambo said: I hope you're not trying to insinuate anything Uly? Nah, no need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, Ulysses said: Nah, no need. Tut, tut, tut, thought you were better than that...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, N Lincs Jambo said: Tut, tut, tut, thought you were better than that...... Better than what? There's no need to insinuate anything, is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day@theraces Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 18 minutes ago, Ulysses said: It does. About them. That they didn't have a care in the world about a global pandemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, Ulysses said: Better than what? There's no need to insinuate anything, is there? Hopefully not, and if I have read what you wrote incorrectly, I apologise unreservedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day@theraces Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 minute ago, Day@theraces said: That they didn't have a care in the world about a global pandemic. Or they had to let off steam, being in such a stressful situation. Understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 5 minutes ago, Ulysses said: I cut out the fluff and got to the point. What else d'ya expect? Tbh a bit more than the usual shutdowns. Seems as if its all just dismissed by a few. Where do you think you're information comes from. ? Most people don't like what happened. That's my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, N Lincs Jambo said: Hopefully not, and if I have read what you wrote incorrectly, I apologise unreservedly. I'm not sure if you did or didn't, to be honest, but there wasn't any offence meant - at least not towards you. Any analysis or reports I've ever seen of the efficacy of these chemicals on Covid-19 patients says "run away", only not in so few words. I've seen different opinions expressed by others out there on the socials, and whenever they offer their sources they're always unsound, or unreliable, or untested by suitably-qualified peer review, or not subject to open research protocols or other research integrity standards, or sometimes a combination of all those things that mean something simply isn't genuine medical research. Frequently, the sources are no more and no less than the video or blog editorialising and opinions of people who actually don't have the qualifications to comment on the subject at all. You may well have found something different, but I've not seen anything different yet, so I'm expecting more of the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 minutes ago, Ked said: Most people don't like what happened. That's my experience. Why would they like what happened? The Irish government and politicians didn't like what happened, and didn't like having to do unpopular things. The people who advised them when to restrict and when to relax restrictions hated, and I mean hated, the restrictions, every bit as much as you did or I did - and I know that from personal experience. But for some reason there are people out there who need these conspiracy theories and weird stories. They actually feel more comfortable with the notion that stuff like this was a plot, scheme or scam of some kind. Why? What need does it satisfy for them? Is it because a conspiracy story is more entertaining than the boring truth that these stupid restrictions were put in place because governments had no plan B until a vaccine was developed? Is it because people feel more comfortable with the idea that government is doing some illuminati stuff than the fear that the evolution of a simple virus could stop us all in our tracks? Or is it something else? When it comes to conspiracy theories, or for that matter UFOs, or JFK, or 9-11, or all those other things, that's the real question. Why and how do such stories become so vital for some people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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