Excess Deaths

January 6

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I said it reduced transmission, not stopped outright. You replied to me saying it never.

Where’s the evidence it reduced transmission. ?

January 6

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

Fair enough I’ll take this at face value. Still doesn’t exclude the behaviour of the vaccine nazis when folk didn’t want to put foreign substances into their bodies. The derision and social stigma they received was rank rotten behaviour and something I’ll never forget.

Plenty “pals” of mine haven’t and will never get spoken to again after they tried to socially embarrass me.

Absolutely. I was always and will always be against any mandatory vaccination.

January 6

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Where’s the evidence it reduced transmission. ?

The link I posted from the CDC.

Or this one actual paper from America.

Our results indicate that vaccination can have a substantial impact on mitigating COVID-19 outbreaks, even with limited protection against infection. However, continued compliance with non-pharmaceutical interventions is essential to achieve this impact.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7929033/

January 6

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No my point was that it stopped transmission . It didn’t

That will be bullet-point 2 that you want then...

As I remember the main purpose of the vaccine was to survive Covid not to eradicate it like polio. It was to reduce the numbers dying because it was killing people with weakened immunity even if young and fat adults and old people.

I was not convinced there was any justification for giving the vaccine to children. That is the only area of contention IMO. Adults could choose but unfortunately as controlling people are wont to do, it became a very loud argument of people trying to tell each other what to do, whether the controlling people are politicians, medically-trained or mere stupid people on social media

January 6

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Fair enough I’ll take this at face value. Still doesn’t exclude the behaviour of the vaccine nazis when folk didn’t want to put foreign substances into their bodies. The derision and social stigma they received was rank rotten behaviour and something I’ll never forget.

Plenty “pals” of mine haven’t and will never get spoken to again after they tried to socially embarrass me.

This whole thread is bringing my rage at the situation back and I Might have to bail out for my own sanity.

Me too ! 😎 it’s just going over the sand stuff as before . You have made decent points ! I will still say that we should have the immunosuppressant and vulnerable shielded and the rest got on with it , yes easy to say now , but that’s how I feel . Also the social derision and exclusion ( even on this ) of vaccine refusers was despicable too .

January 6

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

children. That is the only area of contention IMO. Adults could choose but unfortunately as controlling people are wont to do, it became a very loud argument of people trying to tell each other what to do, whether the controlling people are politicians, medically-trained or mere stupid people on social media

Yes this was beyond the pale . A massive over reach , of an already massive over reach of govt .

January 6

21 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Boosters are still being given to people most at risk. It's likely only been scaled back due to the costs involved.

2 of my friends (30s and 40s) have caught covid recently and been absolutely floored by it this time after not having had a booster for 2 years.

My colleague's sister (mid 60s) refused a booster this time and ended up in hospital.

So now cost is important? In your 30s, 40s...let the bodies pile high?

Or a recognition that the previous approach was a ridiculous overreaction and those people never needed them?

January 6

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

So now cost is important? In your 30s, 40s...let the bodies pile high?

Or a recognition that the previous approach was a ridiculous overreaction and those people never needed them?

A combination of costs plus a lower necessity to get a rampant virus under control now that numbers aren't as prevalent and our health service isn't on its knees to the same extent.

January 6

17 minutes ago, Taffin said:

So now cost is important? In your 30s, 40s...let the bodies pile high?

Or a recognition that the previous approach was a ridiculous overreaction and those people never needed them?

Nobody knew at the time. I'm sure it was hoped that the vaccines might reduce transmission, but the main purpose was to help people not die. It was months before people realised that other than the old and weak many of the younger people being hospitalised were fatties, but importantly by no means all. I know one person who died of Covid and he had other health problems. I also know just one who was hospitalised and she was not even overweight (but she was unvaccinated)...

I remember writing on here that it is a pretty stupid virus which kills its host. A virus does not want to kill its host because it then cannot spread. Natural biological behaviour is that more virulent viruses end up wiping themselves out and milder strains prosper. Mutations occur though and sometimes the nasty strains will develop again which is why we need vaccines to see us through...

Edited January 6 by Spellczech

January 6

15 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes this was beyond the pale . A massive over reach , of an already massive over reach of govt .

It worked both ways. I have no doubt that the idiots advocating bleach and random drugs instead caused the level of noise of the debate go through the roof. It is one thing to say "don't take a tested vaccine", it is quite another to say "here take this instead"...

Both Boris and Trump got totally found out by Covid - it revealed their idiocy and incompetency for all but the stupidest to see...

Edited January 6 by Spellczech

January 6

This thread is a good example of people now(better late than never) accepting the number of excess deaths, there is obviously lots of different factors for these deaths but the government and the main stream media are very quiet about it though, probably because they are responsible for a lot of these deaths. MP Andrew Bridgen has been trying to raise awareness and has had this matter discussed in parliament. Sadly, only a handful of MP's turned up. Do they really care about the health of the nation? I doubt it.

January 6

The vaccine stopped folk getting hospitalised and dying. It can't stop transmission, only isolation stops transmission.

January 6

2 minutes ago, escobri said:

This thread is a good example of people now(better late than never) accepting the number of excess deaths, there is obviously lots of different factors for these deaths but the government and the main stream media are very quiet about it though, probably because they are responsible for a lot of these deaths. MP Andrew Bridgen has been trying to raise awareness and has had this matter discussed in parliament. Sadly, only a handful of MP's turned up. Do they really care about the health of the nation? I doubt it.

Not to be flippant but what purpose would discussing the deaths serve? We know there are excess deaths and we know why. We no longer live with the issues that caused them and the existing Gov aren't going to hang out their dirty laundry anytime soon.

January 6

28 minutes ago, escobri said:

Why not bring Isreal into it aswell? Get the hat trick 🤣

I doubt you know it, but you make a good point. Leadership is all about communication - whether it be truth or lie is moot. Being convincing and clear is the key.

Edited January 6 by Spellczech

January 6

It's now like the flu. It can kill vulnerable people, unlike when pre vaccine, if fecked up every *****, given half the chance. And with muppets walking about, it was given this chance.

January 6

Bleach boy racking up the posting numbers again, I see.

January 6

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Bleach boy racking up the posting numbers again, I see.

Surprised you’re still around ? Tick tock 😎

January 6

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I doubt you know it, but you make a good point. Leadership is all about communication - whether it be truth or lie is moot. Being convincing and clear is the key.

Yes telling lies is great leadership.

January 6

33 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Where’s the evidence it reduced transmission. ?

31 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

The link I posted from the CDC.

Or this one actual paper from America.

Our results indicate that vaccination can have a substantial impact on mitigating COVID-19 outbreaks, even with limited protection against infection. However, continued compliance with non-pharmaceutical interventions is essential to achieve this impact.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7929033/

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Surprised you’re still around ? Tick tock 😎

Just incase you missed this Chief 👍🏼

January 6

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

It's now like the flu. It can kill vulnerable people, unlike when pre vaccine, if fecked up every *****, given half the chance. And with muppets walking about, it was given this chance.

Aye when pre vaccine nobody recovered from it 🤣🤣 dead bodies everywhere ⚰️ ⚰️

January 6

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Hmmm

Was there lockdowns in those other years witg spikes?

Also why are "the Covid years" emitted from your otherwise pointless post? :lol:

People die.

January 6

2 minutes ago, 151 said:

Was there lockdowns in those other years witg spikes?

Also why are "the Covid years" emitted from your otherwise pointless post?

People die.

Those were wars mate, so yeah.

😉

Edited January 6 by Lovecraft

January 6

Just now, Lovecraft said:

Those were wars mate.

😉

There was a war in 2017? Tell me about that.

January 6

7 minutes ago, escobri said:

Yes telling lies is great leadership.

I was writing about what constitutes leadership. I wasn't talking about good or bad leadership.

January 6

2 minutes ago, 151 said:

Was there lockdowns in those other years witg spikes?

Also why are "the Covid years" emitted from your otherwise pointless post?

People die.

Naw people die ? Say it isn’t so ? 😂👍

January 6

1 minute ago, 151 said:

Was there lockdowns in those other years witg spikes?

Also why are "the Covid years" emitted from your otherwise pointless post?

People die.

I've no idea other than 1918 what caused the spikes. I just know that there were more deaths during the Covid years, and a substantial jump from the years immediately preceding than any other time since 1918. So to counter your point, no the number of deaths were not the same as every other year.

The Covid years are on the chart FFS :facepalm: .

January 6

7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Just incase you missed this Chief 👍🏼

I wouldn’t be holding my breath waiting on an answer.

January 6

Just now, Tazio said:

I wouldn’t be holding my breath waiting on an answer.

@AlimOzturk acknowledged my point and took it at face value. Respect for that and I felt it was a positive debate.

January 6

11 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Not to be flippant but what purpose would discussing the deaths serve? We know there are excess deaths and we know why. We no longer live with the issues that caused them and the existing Gov aren't going to hang out their dirty laundry anytime soon.

5 pages in about 15 hours from a small section of the community( all arsholes though 🤣) shows there is a lot to talk about, I only have listened to small snippets from the enquiries and the consensus seemed to be that we never locked down quick or hard enough. The thought of those in power trying lockdowns and school closures again upsets me. Especially as we now are seeing and paying for the consequences of covid lockdowns.

January 6

1 minute ago, 151 said:

There was a war in 2017? Tell me about that.

That spike is covid ffs.

If you look at the chart, you will see that the years on it are only a guideline. 2017 isn't the last year.

January 6

1 minute ago, escobri said:

5 pages in about 15 hours from a small section of the community( all arsholes though 🤣) shows there is a lot to talk about, I only have listened to small snippets from the enquiries and the consensus seemed to be that we never locked down quick or hard enough. The thought of those in power trying lockdowns and school closures again upsets me. Especially as we now are seeing and paying for the consequences of covid lockdowns.

Sure, but, we can't change any of that. And until the next Pandemic we can't show what we learned from it.

January 6

10 hours ago, Ulysses said:

I'm not sure if you did or didn't, to be honest, but there wasn't any offence meant - at least not towards you. Any analysis or reports I've ever seen of the efficacy of these chemicals on Covid-19 patients says "run away", only not in so few words. I've seen different opinions expressed by others out there on the socials, and whenever they offer their sources they're always unsound, or unreliable, or untested by suitably-qualified peer review, or not subject to open research protocols or other research integrity standards, or sometimes a combination of all those things that mean something simply isn't genuine medical research. Frequently, the sources are no more and no less than the video or blog editorialising and opinions of people who actually don't have the qualifications to comment on the subject at all. You may well have found something different, but I've not seen anything different yet, so I'm expecting more of the same.

If you're sticking with the MSM or the major social media avenues such as Google or YouTube, you won't find anything positive about them as they are all players in maintaining the narrative. There are platforms out there such as Telegram which, for now at least, isn't subject to the censorship. You will find many highly qualified, highly respected scientists and physicians who are posting there precisely because it remains free from censorship and there is no genuine, informed debate about related topics anywhere on the MSM etc. There's a lot of crap there, granted, but that applies pretty much to any platform, mainstream or otherwise. It's about separating the wheat from the chaff.

What you will find there though, are studies into HCQ and IV which have been conducted properly, are published and peer reviewed, and which show that they are highly effective. Are you aware, for example, that IV itself won a Nobel Prize in 2015?

January 6

4 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I've no idea other than 1918 what caused the spikes. I just know that there were more deaths during the Covid years, and a substantial jump from the years immediately preceding than any other time since 1918. So to counter your point, no the number of deaths were not the same as every other year.

The Covid years are on the chart FFS .

😆

January 6

People can debate the leadership of the government, and the death rate of Covid etc and post shit from various websites and debate about who is better qualified to write it all they want.

The fact remains that the way folk were treated for not getting a vaccine for something they were admittedly inflating the deathrate of was literally disgusting. Some of it on here aswell about the vaccine passport to get in to Tynecastle and stuff was horrible and I can guarantee a lot of it was from folk who take drugs, drink every weekend, smoke, eat shite food and do no exercise whatsoever. But now all of a sudden they are now the health experts and rely on a person on TV to talk them through life.

If you are/were vaccinated then you should be safe. Upto every individual what they do with their own body. I got Covid and it was brutal, like genuinely brutal I thought I was goosed if I'm honest and I'm never ill really.

Did it make me a think I need to be vaccinated? No my body created anti-bodies and fought it. I did the isolation to not spread it etc and recovered.

January 6

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

@AlimOzturk acknowledged my point and took it at face value. Respect for that and I felt it was a positive debate.

The point that it wasn’t just the vaccine which apparently reduced transmission , it was also “ other interventions “

Anyway I’ve had enough of this thread too . It’s just another repeat rinse of the Covid thread .

January 6

5 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

I've no idea other than 1918 what caused the spikes. I just know that there were more deaths during the Covid years, and a substantial jump from the years immediately preceding than any other time since 1918. So to counter your point, no the number of deaths were not the same as every other year.

The Covid years are on the chart FFS .

Read it wrong. Apologies.

What is the metric on the chart? As in how big are the spikes? Hundreds of thousands?

January 6

4 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

That spike is covid ffs.

If you look at the chart, you will see that the years on it are only a guideline. 2017 isn't the last year.

Apologies I read the chart wrong. I thought it went up to 2017 admittedly taking a quick glance.

January 6

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

The point that it wasn’t just the vaccine which apparently reduced transmission , it was also “ other interventions “

Anyway I’ve had enough of this thread too . It’s just another repeat rinse of the Covid thread .

So the summarise your morning:

I said the vaccine reduced the chance of infection.

You said it never.

You asked for evidence.

I gave you 2 sources.

You now concede that it actually does help prevent infection, and so did the other interventions (Lockdowns).

I dont know about you but I feel we have all grown as individuals today.

January 6

5 minutes ago, 151 said:

Read it wrong. Apologies.

What is the metric on the chart? As in how big are the spikes? Hundreds of thousands?

Here are the actual figures for the last 25 years.

And a link to the chart

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281488/number-of-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

January 6

6 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

If you're sticking with the MSM or the major social media avenues such as Google or YouTube, you won't find anything positive about them as they are all players in maintaining the narrative. There are platforms out there such as Telegram which, for now at least, isn't subject to the censorship. You will find many highly qualified, highly respected scientists and physicians who are posting there precisely because it remains free from censorship and there is no genuine, informed debate about related topics anywhere on the MSM etc. There's a lot of crap there, granted, but that applies pretty much to any platform, mainstream or otherwise. It's about separating the wheat from the chaff.

What you will find there though, are studies into HCQ and IV which have been conducted properly, are published and peer reviewed, and which show that they are highly effective. Are you aware, for example, that IV itself won a Nobel Prize in 2015?

The thing is that most peoples ‘research’ doesn’t extend much beyond finding a link on the internet which agrees with what they think

as it’s possible to find a link on just about any side of any argument then there’s no need to look into it beyond that

everyone’s a winner / everyone’s right

😃👍

January 6

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

Here are the actual figures for the last 25 years.

And a link to the chart

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281488/number-of-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

Ok so for me, especially when you take in to account the population growth, those figures are nowhere near what I thought they would be and also makes me wonder even more about the reaction.

Is the population ageing? As in, in those years were they more people in their 80s/90s and then even more so now?

January 6

1 minute ago, 151 said:

Ok so for me, especially when you take in to account the population growth, those figures are nowhere near what I thought they would be and also makes me wonder even more about the reaction.

Is the population ageing? As in, in those years were they more people in their 80s/90s and then even more so now?

I've looked into it and I reckon there is an argument to be made that the 12+% year on year increase in deaths may be linked to the global pandemic that spread pretty quickly across the UK without any vaccination available.

January 6

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

I've looked into it and I reckon there is an argument to be made that the 12+% year on year increase in deaths may be linked to the global pandemic that spread pretty quickly across the UK without any vaccination available.

The year on year increase that dropped between 2018-2019 and then again between 2020 and 2021?

Or I take it the drop betweem 2020 and 2021 was because the vaccine?

Listen mate, you believe what you believe and aren't going to see anyone elses perspective on it. At least the majority of folk I've met who haven't taken the vaccine are able to say each to their own - if you are vaccinated then great you are the pinnacle of health.

I trust myself to look after my own body and feel like the hypocrisy during Covid of people who do all the things I have posted about twice, which I do none of, is staggering because the media told everyone what was best for them.

January 6

5 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

This was me. I actually broke my iPhone in the process. Suppose i got what I deserved eh? 😂

The same folk who will be roaming about the street now, no vaccine boosters, no masks, no ****s given about social distancing ect called me and others selfish for having the audacity to question what was going on at the time. Most likely frightened that we could ruin their cozy little furlough scheme.

Has covid suddenly disappeared?

broken iPhone - even worse ☹️

although the least you deserved obviously 😡

January 6

18 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

The thing is that most peoples ‘research’ doesn’t extend much beyond finding a link on the internet which agrees with what they think

as it’s possible to find a link on just about any side of any argument then there’s no need to look into it beyond that

everyone’s a winner / everyone’s right

😃👍

That's absolutely spot on and it's why I look for scientific studies which have been published and peer reviewed. There's a lot of them out there which are never going to see the light of day through the conventional channels or outlets sadly.

January 6

7 minutes ago, 151 said:

The year on year increase that dropped between 2018-2019 and then again between 2020 and 2021?

Or I take it the drop betweem 2020 and 2021 was because the vaccine?

Listen mate, you believe what you believe and aren't going to see anyone elses perspective on it. At least the majority of folk I've met who haven't taken the vaccine are able to say each to their own - if you are vaccinated then great you are the pinnacle of health.

I trust myself to look after my own body and feel like the hypocrisy during Covid of people who do all the things I have posted about twice, which I do none of, is staggering because the media told everyone what was best for them.

I have to disagree with the bit in bold.

January 6

53 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Not to be flippant but what purpose would discussing the deaths serve? We know there are excess deaths and we know why. We no longer live with the issues that caused them and the existing Gov aren't going to hang out their dirty laundry anytime soon.

for clarity the recent years excess deaths are a global observation so our (useless) government not particularly significant in a bigger-picture view

maybe you know that and have covered it in a different post - just wasn’t clear to me from this post

also if you know why there are excess deaths there are a big bunch of global multi-skilled professionals currently analysing so they would be happy to hear from you (or maybe not as you could do them out a job ☹️)

January 6

7 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

That's absolutely spot on and it's why I look for scientific studies which have been published and peer reviewed. There's a lot of them out there which are never going to see the light of day through the conventional channels or outlets sadly.

yeah wasting your time mate - I mean trying to debate it (on here)

😃👍

Edited January 6 by MoncurMacdonaldMercer

January 6

12 minutes ago, 151 said:

The year on year increase that dropped between 2018-2019 and then again between 2020 and 2021?

Or I take it the drop betweem 2020 and 2021 was because the vaccine?

Listen mate, you believe what you believe and aren't going to see anyone elses perspective on it. At least the majority of folk I've met who haven't taken the vaccine are able to say each to their own - if you are vaccinated then great you are the pinnacle of health.

I trust myself to look after my own body and feel like the hypocrisy during Covid of people who do all the things I have posted about twice, which I do none of, is staggering because the media told everyone what was best for them.

The death rate across the whole chart generally follows a fairly comparable rise and fall in figures each year. Until you reach the covid years. That year on year increase is not comparable to any other point in over 100 years of History. The drop from 2021 is still significantly higher than the average. And yes, the drop in 2021 highly likely to be because of the vaccine as well as general herd immunity kicking in.

I wasn't debating the uptake of the vaccine with you. You said there were no excess deaths from Covid compared to any other year amd that's just blatantly not true.

January 6

9 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

for clarity the recent years excess deaths are a global observation so our (useless) government not particularly significant in a bigger-picture view

maybe you know that and have covered it in a different post - just wasn’t clear to me from this post

also if you know why there are excess deaths there are a big bunch of global multi-skilled professionals currently analysing so they would be happy to hear from you (or maybe not as you could do them out a job ☹️)

Yes there’s a lot of wasted talent on this forum . They really should be working for various Govt institutions or medical ones . Hefty money too .

Excess Deaths

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