south morocco Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 3 minutes ago, Ked said: Touché mate I'm guilty. I wis referring to someone else😍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 minutes ago, Ked said: He didn't ask for the usual pish. Can we not talk pish without the usual pish mate ffs. No I gave an honest answer . The Scottish govt not governing the way it should be . IMO its priorities are all Wrong . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I read that grandparents around the house improve actual physical health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 5 minutes ago, Ked said: Touché mate I'm guilty. The conversation has naturally deviated into various areas . What’s wrong with that ? Still at its core was the issue of violence and why it occurs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, Ked said: Ffs judy eh? Honest tae fek man Some people are just damaged, Ked, and that can't be helped. Something happens at one (or more) of those key inflection moments in one's life, and the bruising happens and never goes away. What can a fella do except keep plugging away, eh? When families fail, all that's left is the community, or we might call that the State. It can do a good job, or a bad job, but at least it can spend a bit of time and money to intervene. It's the State that pays the teachers, the childcare workers, and so on. They might made a bollix of things, but they can also be saviours. Many years ago I was on a project group with a social worker who specialised in early childhood, and we got to spend a fair bit of time talking about her area of specialisation. It was ****ing tough, and I have no idea how she hadn't burned out. I asked her once why she kept persisting through failure after failure, and her reply sometimes haunts me. I mean that; I've never forgotten it. She said "the smallest thing can save a child." Years later, the poor woman is still plugging away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the posh bit Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, Ked said: I read that grandparents around the house improve actual physical health. My gran was my favourite person ever however she smoked 60 fags a day when I was wee, so I will respectfully challenge your research 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, JudyJudyJudy said: No I gave an honest answer . The Scottish govt not governing the way it should be . IMO its priorities are all Wrong . I'd like one example of anywhere that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: No I gave an honest answer . The Scottish govt not governing the way it should be . IMO its priorities are all Wrong . I live in Ireland. Do you not read my posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, Ked said: I'd like one example of anywhere that is. None of us intervene early enough, as far as I can see. If we let kids get to 5 years of age without proper support then the overwhelming majority of them are goosed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the posh bit Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 26 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Yeah, but... What institution do you think employs and pays the teachers, childcare workers, social workers, psychologists, and the like? The victim grew up in Royston, an area of Edinburgh that the council let down badly at a time when it needed a lot of support. Shutting the primary school and basically everything else that had the word Royston in it aggravated a lot of the local territorial issues, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, Ulysses said: Some people are just damaged, Ked, and that can't be helped. Something happens at one (or more) of those key inflection moments in one's life, and the bruising happens and never goes away. What can a fella do except keep plugging away, eh? When families fail, all that's left is the community, or we might call that the State. It can do a good job, or a bad job, but at least it can spend a bit of time and money to intervene. It's the State that pays the teachers, the childcare workers, and so on. They might made a bollix of things, but they can also be saviours. Many years ago I was on a project group with a social worker who specialised in early childhood, and we got to spend a fair bit of time talking about her area of specialisation. It was ****ing tough, and I have no idea how she hadn't burned out. I asked her once why she kept persisting through failure after failure, and her reply sometimes haunts me. I mean that; I've never forgotten it. She said "the smallest thing can save a child." Years later, the poor woman is still plugging away. 100%. The resilience of genuine people gives me hope and it's so simple to just be kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 3 minutes ago, Ulysses said: None of us intervene early enough, as far as I can see. If we let kids get to 5 years of age without proper support then the overwhelming majority of them are goosed. Maybe . But we can all turn it round. I'm always trying to be a better man buddy . Tbf I started of horrible so plenty scope. 😅 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 8 minutes ago, the posh bit said: My gran was my favourite person ever however she smoked 60 fags a day when I was wee, so I will respectfully challenge your research 😁 And buddy I know from yer posting how you feel about the bairn. That sense of responsible giving a **** comes fae yes granny chavi. That's the posh bit . ❤️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 minutes ago, Ulysses said: None of us intervene early enough, as far as I can see. If we let kids get to 5 years of age without proper support then the overwhelming majority of them are goosed. Yes this is why there is now far more early interventions in families ( ie having to remove the child either permanently or for a significant time ) due to the damage done to their brain development from birth to 5 . Bruce Perry neuro brain science is fascinating stuff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 minutes ago, the posh bit said: The victim grew up in Royston, an area of Edinburgh that the council let down badly at a time when it needed a lot of support. Shutting the primary school and basically everything else that had the word Royston in it aggravated a lot of the local territorial issues, sadly. Here we just keep plugging away. A few weeks ago you might recall that the North-East Inner City of Dublin was in the news. For all that has gone wrong there over generations, the State and the public service stick at the job, do their best, and have never abandoned the area or the people. But there isn't enough investment, and what is being spent is not (IMO) being spent on the right services for children. We keep saying our interventions are about "families and children". They're not, or at least they shouldn't be. If we want to break cycles and give the next generation any chance of escaping the fate that's in store for them, our priority has to be the kids. Yes, help the parents and guardians as well if we can, but children have to come first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, Ulysses said: Here we just keep plugging away. A few weeks ago you might recall that the North-East Inner City of Dublin was in the news. For all that has gone wrong there over generations, the State and the public service stick at the job, do their best, and have never abandoned the area or the people. But there isn't enough investment, and what is being spent is not (IMO) being spent on the right services for children. We keep saying our interventions are about "families and children". They're not, or at least they shouldn't be. If we want to break cycles and give the next generation any chance of escaping the fate that's in store for them, our priority has to be the kids. Yes, help the parents and guardians as well if we can, but children have to come first. Children are last in reality. We borrow against their future . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the posh bit Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, Ulysses said: Here we just keep plugging away. A few weeks ago you might recall that the North-East Inner City of Dublin was in the news. For all that has gone wrong there over generations, the State and the public service stick at the job, do their best, and have never abandoned the area or the people. But there isn't enough investment, and what is being spent is not (IMO) being spent on the right services for children. We keep saying our interventions are about "families and children". They're not, or at least they shouldn't be. If we want to break cycles and give the next generation any chance of escaping the fate that's in store for them, our priority has to be the kids. Yes, help the parents and guardians as well if we can, but children have to come first. As I mentioned earlier, I do believe things are getting better for vulnerable kids here but when, for example, large numbers of adults lose their shit about kids getting a free hot lunch at school every day, you can tell we have a lot more to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 9 minutes ago, Ked said: 100%. The resilience of genuine people gives me hope and it's so simple to just be kind. Have a read of this if you get the time. Katriona O'Sullivan is quite some woman, and her story is remarkable. And what she always says is that if it wasn't for some of those "state-funded" people, she'd never have escaped the fate that awaited her. You'll see it in the article. She mentions her own motivation, but she puts it way down the list of factors that helped her, compared with the teachers, the youth workers, a university's access programme for people like her, and state-funded education grants and childcare services. IMO she underestimates her own motivation and her own talent, but I think that only reinforces her point. Most youngsters won't be as talented or as tough as she is, so they need the help even more than she did. Raised by addicts, abused, neglected, broke: how Katriona O’Sullivan escaped her fate | Poverty | The Guardian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 minute ago, the posh bit said: As I mentioned earlier, I do believe things are getting better for vulnerable kids here but when, for example, large numbers of adults lose their shit about kids getting a free hot lunch at school every day, you can tell we have a lot more to do. The oul' cynic in me wonders if we're all programmed to love our own kids and to detest everyone else's, especially if they're not "like us". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 12 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Yes this is why there is now far more early interventions in families ( ie having to remove the child either permanently or for a significant time ) due to the damage done to their brain development from birth to 5 . Bruce Perry neuro brain science is fascinating stuff . Yep - the way a child's brain can be built better or damaged by early life experiences is of enormous consequence. I got to spend some time working with early childhood care and education workers and experts from several European countries; it was a real eye-opener for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 17 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Have a read of this if you get the time. Katriona O'Sullivan is quite some woman, and her story is remarkable. And what she always says is that if it wasn't for some of those "state-funded" people, she'd never have escaped the fate that awaited her. You'll see it in the article. She mentions her own motivation, but she puts it way down the list of factors that helped her, compared with the teachers, the youth workers, a university's access programme for people like her, and state-funded education grants and childcare services. IMO she underestimates her own motivation and her own talent, but I think that only reinforces her point. Most youngsters won't be as talented or as tough as she is, so they need the help even more than she did. Raised by addicts, abused, neglected, broke: how Katriona O’Sullivan escaped her fate | Poverty | The Guardian Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25214140/marc-webley-edinburgh-shot-dead-granton/ Holy shit. His enemy’s don’t **** about eh? Telling them where he is, goading them, and being drunk while all the police resource is at the street party. Not his best move I guess. So, what and who next for the gangland scene? There should be a gangland family tree so we can track each side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 30 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Yep - the way a child's brain can be built better or damaged by early life experiences is of enormous consequence. I got to spend some time working with early childhood care and education workers and experts from several European countries; it was a real eye-opener for me. Yep it’s actually revolutionised child care practice in so many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day@theraces Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 So which Glasgow family were the Webleys subordinates to. Lyons or Daniels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 8 hours ago, Ulysses said: The oul' cynic in me wonders if we're all programmed to love our own kids and to detest everyone else's, especially if they're not "like us". What happens when you don't have any kids? Do you just hate everybody? As much as I think this thread has helped take apart any argument that the state has no business interfering in family life or child welfare, I suspect that there will always be bams in all parts of society who are attracted to the glamour of firearms and violent crime and social services won't ever prevent that. Some interventions might work and certainly doing more to support families and or kids growing up in communities like these might help steer more kids away from the wrong path if the opportunities are there but it is inevitable that living like a modern day Ronnie/Reggie Kray with the wealth and status that seems to bring will always have some sort of an appeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Town Loafer Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 11 hours ago, John Findlay said: You are an excuse maker. You blame every I'll on poverty. This is very personal I was physically abused as a child. By my mother who was an alcoholic. She on occasion burst my nose and bruised my body severely. When I was just aged Eight my parents split up. I was asked to choose between Father and Mother. I chose my Father as he didn't physically abuse me. By the time I was aged Eleven I had attended Six different primary schools. In order. Royston, Almond Bank(Livingston), Dalmuir West(Dalmuir), Pirniehall, St Catherine's, and St Peter's. The last one whilst I was in the children's home, Canaan Lodge in Canaan Lane, Morningside. I was still in the home when I started secondary school at St Thomas's, which turned out to be my only secondary school. Here's the thing I could read and count before I left Royston. Why was that, because even that young I knew I was at school to learn and more importantly I knew right from wrong and how to behave. I have known hunger, and cold as a child and wearing the same clothes for a week. Having very bad head lice as a child that I had to go to a place on the high street to have a nit nurse wash my hair thoroughly, and get rid of the lice. Unlike you I don't use it as an excuse for the times when I have been brassic and hungry, admittedly far more often as a child than an adult. I have never turned to crime, as that was the easy option. I have never had a police record and never will. I have had 6pts on my driving licence for Two speeding offences, and the only person responsible for them was myself. I could tell you far more, but you would think it was so far fetched and wouldn't believe me. Good luck in your work. Great post, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said: What happens when you don't have any kids? Do you just hate everybody? As much as I think this thread has helped take apart any argument that the state has no business interfering in family life or child welfare, I suspect that there will always be bams in all parts of society who are attracted to the glamour of firearms and violent crime and social services won't ever prevent that. Some interventions might work and certainly doing more to support families and or kids growing up in communities like these might help steer more kids away from the wrong path if the opportunities are there but it is inevitable that living like a modern day Ronnie/Reggie Kray with the wealth and status that seems to bring will always have some sort of an appeal There's quite a bit of sound psychological and sociological science that explains the reasons why kids (particularly fellas) start getting attracted to the "gangland" world, how that happens in practice, and how criminals groom them and draw them in. However, while it's inevitable that the "gangland" lifestyle will have some appeal, it isn't inevitable that big numbers of kids have to be drawn in, or that any particular young person will get caught up in it. But preventive action takes a lot of work by various services, and it's an uphill struggle if agencies are under-funded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 It's an interesting question about responsibility (and blame). Some cultures put an age on it. Under 16 for example. Some people believe everyone deserves support. Others choose to blame people. Makes them feel superior maybe. I would agree that its the choices that are made that lead to things happening. Children make these choices so they are responsible for them when their lives as adults take all their events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 minutes ago, Ulysses said: There's quite a bit of sound psychological and sociological science that explains the reasons why kids (particularly fellas) start getting attracted to the "gangland" world, how that happens in practice, and how criminals groom them and draw them in. However, while it's inevitable that the "gangland" lifestyle will have some appeal, it isn't inevitable that big numbers of kids have to be drawn in, or that any particular young person will get caught up in it. But preventive action takes a lot of work by various services, and it's an uphill struggle if agencies are under-funded. I'm all for preventative action and am glad that the past few pages have demolished the bollocks that state support (or intervention) is somehow interference. I know one lassie I worked with who is from that neck of the woods and she has been running around with a whole host of similar types of bams as this guy. She had an opportunity to have a decent career and lifestyle but couldn't look beyond what she saw as glamour rather than the prospect of a meaningful career. A tragedy in itself but I eventually ran out of sympathy for her. I'm not sure if things would have turned out better if there had been interventions at a much earlier stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 5 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: I'm all for preventative action and am glad that the past few pages have demolished the bollocks that state support (or intervention) is somehow interference. I know one lassie I worked with who is from that neck of the woods and she has been running around with a whole host of similar types of bams as this guy. She had an opportunity to have a decent career and lifestyle but couldn't look beyond what she saw as glamour rather than the prospect of a meaningful career. A tragedy in itself but I eventually ran out of sympathy for her. I'm not sure if things would have turned out better if there had been interventions at a much earlier stage. Interventions don't always work, but the more you do the more successes you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 5 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Interventions don't always work, but the more you do the more successes you get. Yeah. No argument on that score but shite as it is that lifestyle will always be attractive to some. That Hibbie lassie who won the lottery being an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 " What happens when you dont have kids ? Do you just hate everybody? As said by JJ Wow. just wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: It's an interesting question about responsibility (and blame). Some cultures put an age on it. Under 16 for example. Some people believe everyone deserves support. Others choose to blame people. Makes them feel superior maybe. I would agree that its the choices that are made that lead to things happening. Children make these choices so they are responsible for them when their lives as adults take all their events. Its now 25 in Scotland . Support for children is traditioanlly been seen as the most important group due to their levels of vulnerabilty . However there has been a gradual erosion of support for teenagers due to the demands placed on Social work services. Sadly it means that vulnerable teenagers who are are at risk getting involved in petty crime and " the wrong crowd" is tapering off now. Some are now written off by the time they are 12/13 or given the most minimal of interventions. They then get lost in the system. Babies and younger children under 12 are viewed as more of a priority. Edited January 2 by JudyJudyJudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 14 hours ago, the posh bit said: The victim grew up in Royston, an area of Edinburgh that the council let down badly at a time when it needed a lot of support. Shutting the primary school and basically everything else that had the word Royston in it aggravated a lot of the local territorial issues, sadly. Marc Webley was already in jail when Royston Primary closed, so not sure that's a mitigating circumstance for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said: It's an interesting question about responsibility (and blame). Some cultures put an age on it. Under 16 for example. Some people believe everyone deserves support. Others choose to blame people. Makes them feel superior maybe. I would agree that its the choices that are made that lead to things happening. Children make these choices so they are responsible for them when their lives as adults take all their events. The idea that children have genuine choices is a bit of an illusion, though. Some teenage fellas have choices that are quite different to the choices available to others. And if the only choices you can see in front of you are bad ones, you're probably going to make a bad choice. If we had that life, would we live it differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 15 hours ago, Ked said: What dogma ? Nate ffs You and others straight on it about the bill etc. Was a shit bill with no.thought to government agency track record or the intricacy of Such a scheme. What's needed is imo a back to basics where men are shamed for not being about their bairns and just a better family outlook. From Grandparent to grandchild. Shared street etc. I think we've lost value buddy. Strange thread 😄 Me and Judy's spraff ffs. Am just saying maybe we've forgot more than we know. I didn't mention the bill, only responded to another poster. These issues are beyond simplistic politics of any kind and no one party or government will solve them. As to men, I'm with you there. Too many men are just sperm doners and not fathers. But, if that's their reality as bairns, then that's what they'll more than likely learn and become later on. It's not new either. My auld dear's father was an utter **** - you're going back to WWII years here, old school Gorgie/ Saughton working class. She turned out well, her brother not. Where I work, many of the problems come from the mothers - hard as *** matriarchs, many of whom are regularly in court on assault on their menfolk or for abusing their own kids. As to Named Person or other schemes, we have that already in effect for the most at-risk kids - multiple agencies involved, both professionals and volunteers, many of us facing violence or abuse almost daily. It does work though for many kids to an extent. The problems really start in the teenage years when the extended families, big cousins whoever have a greater attraction and influence than teachers, social workers, health workers, police (no surprises there) or anyone else who's deemed to be authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 31 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Its now 25 in Scotland . Support for children is traditioanlly been seen as the most important group due to their levels of vulnerabilty . However there has been a gradual erosion of support for teenagers due to the demands placed on Social work services. Sadly it means that vulnerable teenagers who are are at risk getting involved in petty crime and " the wrong crowd" is tapering off now. Some are now written off by the time they are 12/13 or given the most minimal of interventions. They then get lost in the system. Babies and younger children under 12 are viewed as more of a priority. Good points and probably true. With younger kids, the brain does most of its formation - putting it crudely here - in the first few years, certainly before puberty. It's maybe thought that's the most important time to influence/ help them grow. Problem is as I said above, the pull of negative forces in the community/ families is too great for many in the teenage years. Good podcast here btw. Interview with an English/Irish academic who grew up in utter shit in Coventry, suffered loads of abuse as you can imagine but somehow managed to gain a Phd and now fights to change the system in favour of people who still suffer like she did. https://play.acast.com/s/blindboy/the-psychological-impact-of-poverty-with-drkatriona-o-sulliv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) So are the Webleys poor, disadvantaged urchins failed by the parents and the state, or a bunch of sociopathic bams who get a hard on being feared, big-man gangster types? I've never understood how parts of our media, specifically west-coast publications like the daily record, love to glamourise these types. Edited January 2 by il Duce McTarkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the posh bit Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 40 minutes ago, Darren said: Marc Webley was already in jail when Royston Primary closed, so not sure that's a mitigating circumstance for him. I definitely wasn't meaning this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 28 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: So are the Webleys poor, disadvantaged urchins failed by the parents and the state, or a bunch of sociopathic bams who get a hard on being feared, big-man gangster types? I've never understood how parts of our media, specifically west-coast publications like the daily record, love to glamourise these types. I’d lean heavily towards the latter. We can pontificate all we want about how our circumstances shape who we are but the fact of the matter is some people are just horrible, violent bullies and would likely turn out that way no matter what. As has been pointed out previously there are numerous people who will have grown up in similar circumstances or worse who did not exhibit this behaviour. I usually find it’s the folk who are better off and shielded from the consequences of these folk’s actions that are the most desperate to make excuses for them. I’m sure plenty people living in the schemes who have been victimised over the years won’t be shedding many tears. Edited January 2 by moogsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Town Loafer Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Bet his wee brother is a little shit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Gundermann said: , then that's what they'll more than likely learn and become later on. It Very true. I remember from my student days a very true line " you live what you learn". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Gundermann said: It does work though for many kids to an extent. The problems really start in the teenage years when the extended families, big cousins whoever have a greater attraction and influence than teachers, social workers, health workers, police (no surprises there) or anyone else who's deemed to be authority 👍and ofcourwe in pyscho social development the teenage age is the classic identiy v role confusion. It teenagers do not successful navigate this stage they struggle with any sense of identity and are vulnerable to all sorts of negative influences as young adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, il Duce McTarkin said: So are the Webleys poor, disadvantaged urchins failed by the parents and the state, or a bunch of sociopathic bams who get a hard on being feared, big-man gangster types? I've never understood how parts of our media, specifically west-coast publications like the daily record, love to glamourise these types. You’re last sentence is particularly pertinent. Alway seem to revel in their nicknames like a badge of honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 42 minutes ago, moogsy said: I’d lean heavily towards the latter. We can pontificate all we want about how our circumstances shape who we are but the fact of the matter is some people are just horrible, violent bullies and would likely turn out that way no matter what. As has been pointed out previously there are numerous people who will have grown up in similar circumstances or worse who did not exhibit this behaviour. I usually find it’s the folk who are better off and shielded from the consequences of these folk’s actions that are the most desperate to make excuses for them. I’m sure plenty people living in the schemes who have been victimised over the years won’t be shedding many tears. Can it not be both ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, the posh bit said: I definitely wasn't meaning this. Care to enlighten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the posh bit Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 minute ago, Darren said: Care to enlighten? Not a jot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightrope Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Loving the rights, wrongs, failures, succeses chat, but it's a bit dry. Anyone got anymore scandal on the shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve123 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 4 minutes ago, tightrope said: Loving the rights, wrongs, failures, succeses chat, but it's a bit dry. Anyone got anymore scandal on the shooting? Looking for a Red Hyundai Tuscan, car pulled up, guy got out fired the shots then dissapeared. From the videos and other stuff easily found on the net not sure the police will have to look to far for their answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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