Accounts

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

Kye Rowles or Mihai Popescu.....

 

 

Now let me think...  Or Shaughnessy... Nat Atkinson or Connor Randall... Alex Cochrane or Lenny Sowah/Oshaniwa/Rherras... Even guys who've maybe not quite shown more than some promise... Oda or Amankwaa... Vargas or Choulay!

 

It's night and day mate.  But our fans want EVERY signing to be our best player.  Even the top teams have a % strike rate on signings.  Ours is high.

Edited November 16, 2023 by TheBigO

[chrisyboy7]

1 hour ago, stirlo said:

 

The club reported the waiting list as being even higher than that back in the summer - but however big the waiting list, as all of us who are long-time supporters know, supporting a football club is a habit, so a high proportion of those people on the waiting list are folk who once they get used to spending their Saturday afternoons watching Hearts, are unlikely to lose that habit for a long time. It's very frustrating that the club is effectively having to turn people away who could become regular attendees for years to come.

When they constructed the new stand they should have filled in those 2 corners at the same time 

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, TheBigO said:

Now let me think...  Or Shaughnessy... Nat Atkinson or Connor Randall... Alex Cochrane or Lenny Sowah/Oshaniwa/Rherras... 

 

It's night and day mate.  But our fans want EVERY signing to be our best player.  Even the top teams have a % strike rate on signings.  Ours is high.

John Souttar or Toby Sibbick.  Works both ways.

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

John Souttar or Toby Sibbick.  Works both ways.

Not sure that's as stark is it!? I mean Toby isn't our first choice is he - he's a squad player.  The guys I've compared above held similar positions in the squad.  You could say Rudi or Halliday if you want to take it to the extreme!  But I could say, I duno, Shanks or Bikey!haha

 

I do think my general point stands, no?

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

John Souttar or Toby Sibbick.  Works both ways.

Toby or Popescu and on it goes. 😁

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, TheBigO said:

Not sure that's as stark is it!? I mean Toby isn't our first choice is he - he's a squad player.  The guys I've compared above held similar positions in the squad.  You could say Rudi or Halliday if you want to take it to the extreme!  But I could say, I duno, Shanks or Bikey!haha

 

I do think my general point stands, no?

i'd say it's open to debate.  And I could say Kio 

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Toby or Popescu and on it goes. 😁

🤣

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, HopeDiouf said:

i'd say it's open to debate.  And I could say Kio 

Yes but that takes me on to the last para in my post about recruitment strike rate, doesn't it.  We can pull Kio out the bag.  We can pull Vanacek out the bag.  But the GENERAL standard of our recruitment is higher than it was.  Anyone disputing that I honestly think is blinded, prejudiced, mental or all of that!

 

Anyhoo, you and I ruined a thread for a while yesterday, so we should prob lay down the weapons early today chief!

[Jim Panzee]

3 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

i'd say it's open to debate.  And I could say Kio 

true. but as Savage himself has said, if you're achieving a 52% success rate with signings you're doing well.

 

as I keep saying - looking at the bigot brother failed signings and they've chucked millions down the pan on players who've only managed a handful of games.

 

Mudryk at chelsea - £90m and two goals I think? 

[HopeDiouf]

3 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Yes but that takes me on to the last para in my post about recruitment strike rate, doesn't it.  We can pull Kio out the bag.  We can pull Vanacek out the bag.  But the GENERAL standard of our recruitment is higher than it was.  Anyone disputing that I honestly think is blinded, prejudiced, mental or all of that!

 

Anyhoo, you and I ruined a thread for a while yesterday, so we should prob lay down the weapons early today chief!

Think it's harsh to say people are blinded, prejudiced etc.

If that were true, assuming our coaching staff are not incompetent, you'd expect to see an improvement of on field performances and results surely?

I'm not seeing how having discussions is ruining a thread?

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, Jim Panzee said:

true. but as Savage himself has said, if you're achieving a 52% success rate with signings you're doing well.

 

as I keep saying - looking at the bigot brother failed signings and they've chucked millions down the pan on players who've only managed a handful of games.

 

Mudryk at chelsea - £90m and two goals I think? 

I think we're doing ok.  But if we were really improving, you'd expect to see improved results and performances in line with our better players we have signed.

[Japan Jambo]

15 hours ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

They call it an executive box

 

🤣

[TheBigO]

3 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

Think it's harsh to say people are blinded, prejudiced etc.

If that were true, assuming our coaching staff are not incompetent, you'd expect to see an improvement of on field performances and results surely?

I'm not seeing how having discussions is ruining a thread?

Ok, then ruining my work then!haha

 

I'm pretty steadfast on this one.  The general recruitment now compared to Levein's wee cabal of "trusted agents" sending us every broken down could-have-been they could find, or the late VR reign where managers were scraping teams together, christ even the early VR where we had some amazing players but they needed to play with guys who'd won a pony!

 

I just don't see any comparison.  We get some wrong, of course.  Some are a bit underwhelming, of course.  

 

And Id say 3rd and then 4th (and a stupid 4th based on Neilson blowing it), especially with the injuries we've had is an improvement not only in recent years but on our historical norm.  How many times have we stayed in the top 4 two seasons in a row?  How many times 3 times in a row?  We'll be in the top 4 this year and in fact my bold prediction which isn't wild is come end of this season we'll have gone 3rd 4th 3rd.  Have we EVER done this?  I genuinely don't know and throughout history both OF weren't always unreachably at the top as they are now.  We've improved.

[Pasquale for King]

47 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

When they constructed the new stand they should have filled in those 2 corners at the same time 

Absolutely, we also have restricted view seats and sections cordoned off with advertising or for players to sit in, that could have Perspex screens instead. That all adds up over a season to a tidy sum.

[Under the floodlight]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Absolutely, we also have restricted view seats and sections cordoned off with advertising or for players to sit in, that could have Perspex screens instead. That all adds up over a season to a tidy sum.

Get Michael O'Leary in, he could fit an Elephant into a phonebox.🤣

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Under the floodlight said:

Get Michael O'Leary in, he could fit an Elephant into a phonebox.🤣

Just what we need, more dodgy Hibs types..

[HopeDiouf]

48 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Ok, then ruining my work then!haha

 

I'm pretty steadfast on this one.  The general recruitment now compared to Levein's wee cabal of "trusted agents" sending us every broken down could-have-been they could find, or the late VR reign where managers were scraping teams together, christ even the early VR where we had some amazing players but they needed to play with guys who'd won a pony!

 

I just don't see any comparison.  We get some wrong, of course.  Some are a bit underwhelming, of course.  

 

And Id say 3rd and then 4th (and a stupid 4th based on Neilson blowing it), especially with the injuries we've had is an improvement not only in recent years but on our historical norm.  How many times have we stayed in the top 4 two seasons in a row?  How many times 3 times in a row?  We'll be in the top 4 this year and in fact my bold prediction which isn't wild is come end of this season we'll have gone 3rd 4th 3rd.  Have we EVER done this?  I genuinely don't know and throughout history both OF weren't always unreachably at the top as they are now.  We've improved.

Fair point IF we get 3rd, which I've no idea where we'll end up this year.  Wouldn't rule out 3rd, also wouldn't rule out 6th.
if we're going throughout history, we've had 2nd 1st 2nd 1st before.  Levein got 3rd twice in a row in early 2000s?

 

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, HopeDiouf said:

Fair point IF we get 3rd, which I've no idea where we'll end up this year.  Wouldn't rule out 3rd, also wouldn't rule out 6th.
if we're going throughout history, we've had 2nd 1st 2nd 1st before.  Levein got 3rd twice in a row in early 2000s?

 

Yeah he did, but they're very much anomalies.  I think we'll come 3rd this season.  Not sure it'll be spectacular or a thrill ride but I do think we'll do it!  We're a couple of players back from injury or a couple of shrewd January moves away from being a very solid team.  If Tagawa clicks or if we get an EPL loan right up front in Jan, I just don't see anyone else matching us.  Really don't.

 

We'll see (I say that a lot!)

[Carter]

AGM scheduled for 11am on 14 December. Clearly hoping for a huge turnout. 

[busbyfth]

If not for Anderson over the past 5-8 years are we belly up again ? (his presence should NOT be underestimated) 

[Jim Panzee]

41 minutes ago, busbyfth said:

If not for Anderson over the past 5-8 years are we belly up again ? (his presence should NOT be underestimated) 

No - we'd not have his money to spend on all the other stuff bar the 1st team.

[Sooks]

.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Sooks

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

AGM scheduled for 11am on 14 December. Clearly hoping for a huge turnout. 

Got my invite through the post today . Might actually go for the first time 

[Sooks]

51 minutes ago, busbyfth said:

If not for Anderson over the past 5-8 years are we belly up again ? (his presence should NOT be underestimated) 

We do not spend any money until it either hits our accounts or is paid directly for something by the person donating it . We would not be belly up , we would just not have spent money we did not have . We are run very well and sensibly 

 

Quite different from Hibs and Aberdeen or Dundee United ect who just overspend every season and get their sugar daddy to foot the bill . Whether these bills are being paid via loans or just absorbed I do not know 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Sooks

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 hour ago, busbyfth said:

If not for Anderson over the past 5-8 years are we belly up again ? (his presence should NOT be underestimated) 

Wouldn't be belly up as you put it we just wouldn't have new stand and all the other various stadium improvements 

[Carter]

53 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Got my invite through the post today . Might actually go for the first time 

Mine arrived this morning too. Not a great time to maximise attendance. Probably quite deliberate. 

 

In the good old days of CPR they used to be held in the evening. Some of those were eventful.

[Carter]

Just looking at the Accounts. Few things jump out.

 

1. European income exceeded that of gate receipts.

 

2. Broadcasting income of £374,000 is an utter disgrace and should shame those running the game in Scotland. I shudder to think what a club of smaller scale in a fully commercialised market such as Bournemouth receive from broadcasting. Thoroughly depressing and frankly a scandal.

 

3. Wages have jumped substantially from £11.2M to £15.4M, which may actually exceed our T/o this year with European revenue substantially reduced. You can see why it was so important to finish third last season. 

[Thomaso]

5 hours ago, chrisyboy7 said:

When they constructed the new stand they should have filled in those 2 corners at the same time 

How could they have done that with the corner steel towers supporting the horizontal truss to the ends of the Gorgie and Roseburn stands? 🤔

[Footballfirst]

31 minutes ago, Carter said:

Just looking at the Accounts. Few things jump out.

 

1. European income exceeded that of gate receipts.

 

2. Broadcasting income of £374,000 is an utter disgrace and should shame those running the game in Scotland. I shudder to think what a club of smaller scale in a fully commercialised market such as Bournemouth receive from broadcasting. Thoroughly depressing and frankly a scandal.

 

3. Wages have jumped substantially from £11.2M to £15.4M, which may actually exceed our T/o this year with European revenue substantially reduced. You can see why it was so important to finish third last season. 

Re Broadcasting income, it is important to note that the £374k is in relation to cup competitions (Scottish Cup, League Cup and Euro qualifying playoffs).  Finishing in 4th place would have earned Hearts approx. £2.3m in SPFL prize money.  The vast majority of that amount comes from the Broadcasting deal with Sky. It's a shit amount compared with what clubs in the lower reaches of the EPL receive, but still needs to be taken into account when making such comparisons.

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, busbyfth said:

If not for Anderson over the past 5-8 years are we belly up again ? (his presence should NOT be underestimated) 

well that’s not true no.

 

weve only invested in some one off infrastructure costs, becuase we can on the back of his investment. We aren’t borrowing money. 

 

We would simply have spent less.

 

nae offence bud but this is a regurgitatation of some absolute drivel from hibs net

 

 

[Boris5115]

6 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

We'd need to widen the end stands as well though if you wanted to widen the pitch.

Yip. I just don't see any expansion being on the horizon. 

[johnking123]

Would need a completely new wheatfield  and new roof supports for two smaller stands. It's going to cost over 30/40 million for the stands. To make it worth while.

[FarmerTweedy]

4 hours ago, Thomaso said:

How could they have done that with the corner steel towers supporting the horizontal truss to the ends of the Gorgie and Roseburn stands? 🤔

They couldn't have (not without major, very expensive, modifications to the end stands, anyway) and he knows that perfectly well.  He's just shit stirring as usual! 

[FarmerTweedy]

4 hours ago, Carter said:

Just looking at the Accounts. Few things jump out.

 

1. European income exceeded that of gate receipts.

 

2. Broadcasting income of £374,000 is an utter disgrace and should shame those running the game in Scotland. I shudder to think what a club of smaller scale in a fully commercialised market such as Bournemouth receive from broadcasting. Thoroughly depressing and frankly a scandal.

 

3. Wages have jumped substantially from £11.2M to £15.4M, which may actually exceed our T/o this year with European revenue substantially reduced. You can see why it was so important to finish third last season. 

Not that I particularly want to defend the SPFL and Dungcaster, but the SPFL TV money is actually included in the Prize Money entry, as the actual amount received is based on league position. 

 

Edit: already covered by footballfirst!

Edited November 16, 2023 by FarmerTweedy

[FarmerTweedy]

3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

well that’s not true no.

 

weve only invested in some one off infrastructure costs, becuase we can on the back of his investment. We aren’t borrowing money. 

 

We would simply have spent less.

 

nae offence bud but this is a regurgitatation of some absolute drivel from hibs net

 

 

We've also invested significantly in the women's team and in community programmes thanks to his money. That would all have been substantially lower without his donations. 

[Carter]

11 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Not that I particularly want to defend the SPFL and Dungcaster, but the SPFL TV money is actually included in the Prize Money entry, as the actual amount received is based on league position. 

 

Edit: already covered by footballfirst!

You and FF are indeed correct. It is within the prize money. Its frankly paltry though. Scottish football has missed the opportunity to market the product effectively and have been completely cut adrift as a consequence.

 

On the Accounts, we've clearly spent a significant sum in summer window 2022 and significantly increased the wage bill, which is probably now at the optimal level that we can reasonably afford. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Carter

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

We've also invested significantly in the women's team and in community programmes thanks to his money. That would all have been substantially lower without his donations. 

correct. One thing we wouldn’t be is belly up. 

[boag1874]

On 15/11/2023 at 18:31, JamboAl said:

Does that mean it's accurate or just guesswork?

A sell-on fee is something that is agreed between the buying and selling club.  If we had insisted on something unsuitable to Bologna, they might have told us to get stuffed and Hickey could have stayed here.  If then he sustained a serious injury (like Souttar) the club would have been criticised for not accepting the offer that was on the table.

Sometimes one simply has to make a judgment and let the devil take the hindmost.  It's not a rehearsal.

I don’t know whether it’s 100% accurate theres been confusion about it, seem to remember it being confirmed at an AGM or something but then reported as the opposite, it’s a weird situation. Hence the “if”.

[Boris5115]

17 hours ago, Carter said:

Just looking at the Accounts. Few things jump out.

 

1. European income exceeded that of gate receipts.

 

2. Broadcasting income of £374,000 is an utter disgrace and should shame those running the game in Scotland. I shudder to think what a club of smaller scale in a fully commercialised market such as Bournemouth receive from broadcasting. Thoroughly depressing and frankly a scandal.

 

3. Wages have jumped substantially from £11.2M to £15.4M, which may actually exceed our T/o this year with European revenue substantially reduced. You can see why it was so important to finish third last season. 

Wages up over 4 million is a major question. What's changed to justify this big increase. 

[Bad Religion]

3 minutes ago, Boris5115 said:

Wages up over 4 million is a major question. What's changed to justify this big increase. 

 

Euro money that we'd probably projected two seasons  running. 

 

Bob ****ed it.

[Dazo]

Just now, Bad Religion said:

 

Euro money that we'd probably projected two seasons  running. 

 

Bob ****ed it.

No we didn’t stop making things up. 

[Bad Religion]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

No we didn’t stop making things up. 

 

Ok then, why have wages increased by £4M?

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Ok then, why have wages increased by £4M?

I’d hazard a guess because we employ more people. 

[Bad Religion]

Just now, Dazo said:

I’d hazard a guess because we employ more people. 

 

£4M worth?

 

Who? 

[jambo19]

2 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Ok then, why have wages increased by £4M?

We're operating a first team which includes transfers in of Grant, Kio, Oda, Shankland plus new contracts

 

Were paying staff of Neilson, McCulloch, Forrest then McAvoy and Naismith with Webster and Fox also coming in

 

Woman's team has also seen various players come in.

 

Then you have background staff and academy staff. The numbers all add up

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Bad Religion said:

 

£4M worth?

 

Who? 

I’ve no idea buddy but what I do know is the successful business people we have running the club will not be spending money we don’t have(euro group). There will be a certain level of income expectation based on our performance but that group money was in no way spent on the expectation we would get it.  Too many variables to budget for that. 

[Bad Religion]

Just now, jambo19 said:

We're operating a first team which includes transfers in of Grant, Kio, Oda, Shankland plus new contracts

 

Were paying staff of Neilson, McCulloch, Forrest then McAvoy and Naismith with Webster and Fox also coming in

 

Woman's team has also seen various players come in.

 

Then you have background staff and academy staff. The numbers all add up

 

We also had several players leave. 

 

All were already on the payroll except Webster and Fox who I doubt command large salaries.

 

Women's I agree will have increased it but then again not significantly.  

[Bad Religion]

Just now, Dazo said:

I’ve no idea buddy but what I do know is the successful business people we have running the club will not be spending money we don’t have(euro group). There will be a certain level of income expectation based on our performance but that group money was in no way spent on the expectation we would get it.  Too many variables to budget for that. 

 

Ok that's all fine but the initial question above regarded concern as to why has the wage bill has increased by such a signif0cnat number. 

[I.T.K]

20 hours ago, busbyfth said:

If not for Anderson over the past 5-8 years are we belly up again ? (his presence should NOT be underestimated) 

 

 

If Anderson thought we are even close to going belly up then he would not put any more money in. 

 

The fact he has, and continues, to put large sums of his own money is testament that the club is being well run.  

 

And I dont underestimate what hes done for us.... and the FOH members.

[scott herbertson]

1 hour ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Ok that's all fine but the initial question above regarded concern as to why has the wage bill has increased by such a signif0cnat number. 

 

Does the wage bill include hospitality staff or is that separate in the accounts?