Accounts

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Good numbers, small profit, money invested, all good and clever.

 

With regard to Aberdeen, they will see a similar hike next year and ourselves a drop, Europe is clearly the driver, surely people can see that......or not

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Good numbers, small profit, money invested, all good and clever.

 

With regard to Aberdeen, they will see a similar hike next year and ourselves a drop, Europe is clearly the driver, surely people can see that......or not

Indeed but, for both us and Aberdeen, one season in the Conference leagues isn't a potential medium to long term game changer whereas 3 or 4 might well be.  

[soonbe110]

7 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Indeed but, for both us and Aberdeen, one season in the Conference leagues isn't a potential medium to long term game changer whereas 3 or 4 might well be.  

That should be the challenge/target that our management team and recruitment team should be given.  It’s eminently achievable and a huge opportunity 

[Famous 1874]

23 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

What difference does his team make?

It’s more the principle as to why they were selected.
 

I highly doubt there was any sort of real selection process. 

 

Should be investigated and the board should have to answer the process on deciding contractors.

[Sooks]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Indeed but, for both us and Aberdeen, one season in the Conference leagues isn't a potential medium to long term game changer whereas 3 or 4 might well be.  

And you have to factor in the other methods of variable income . We start of on a stronger footing than Aberdeen as we have more fans , but then you have to take in to consideration

 

Player sales

Benefactor donations

Non footballing income

Owner contributions

 

Aberdeen offset our financial advantage with player sales

 

We are well ahead in benefactor donations 

 

Non footballing income Aberdeen we’re ahead by quite a distance through hospitality connected to oil industry - our infrastructure projects and hospitality Inc restaurant and hotel are hopefully closing that gap or even eclipsing it 

 

Cormack has been covering Aberdeens massive overspending for over a decade to the tune of millions per season . His other business interests probably spread these losses . Would be funny if he was keeping a tab though and eventually called it in - We are owners at Hearts and we put in a million and a half every season but we put it in before it is budgeted for just like the benefactor donations . Cormack lets Aberdeen overspend and covers the inevitable big losses they accrue trying to keep pace 

 

Our way is stable and levels out at a similar place to Aberdeen 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Famous 1874 said:

It’s more the principle as to why they were selected.
 

I highly doubt there was any sort of real selection process. 

 

Should be investigated and the board should have to answer the process on deciding contractors.

 

So what difference does his team make?

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

It’s more the principle as to why they were selected.
 

I highly doubt there was any sort of real selection process. 

 

Should be investigated and the board should have to answer the process on deciding contractors.

Hope you do not drink in Diggers then mate 

[Unknown user]

32 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

 

Total joke that some Hibs ***** is getting our contracts. 

 

4 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

It’s more the principle as to why they were selected.
 

I highly doubt there was any sort of real selection process. 

 

Should be investigated and the board should have to answer the process on deciding contractors.

 

It doesn't sound like it's the principle as to why they were selected mate 

[Boris5115]

How much did Hibs pay for one of our Groundsman or will that be in next years figures 😂😂

[TheBigO]

44 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Indeed but, for both us and Aberdeen, one season in the Conference leagues isn't a potential medium to long term game changer whereas 3 or 4 might well be.  

It also shows how much winning a game or two in that competition can mean.  Isn't it £500k a win.  So for one win, that's roughly 2.5% of our turnover.  More for other teams with lower turnovers.  Actually doing OK in the comp year in year out, you could really grow income.  Last feb-April was a real shitshow when you think about it.

 

Anyway, onwards and upwards.  We've got a very steady foundation, and there is still infrastructure works, so the accounts will only look better year on year as those extra revenue streams open up.

 

Goes without saying it's all about the football though.  Putting aside boring things like us wanting our team to win, the whole operation financially simply works better if we're doing well on the park.  There's no getting away from that.

[Carter]

It does illustrate how costly our collapse was last season though. Another season of Conference League income and thus depriving an immediate rival of that windfall cannot be understated. 

 

We absolutely must finish third this season. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

17 minutes ago, Carter said:

It does illustrate how costly our collapse was last season though. Another season of Conference League income and thus depriving an immediate rival of that windfall cannot be understated. 

 

We absolutely must finish third this season. 

Thats the pothole in the road for sure.

[Jim Panzee]

1 hour ago, TexasAndy said:

For an older fan like me this makes great reading.  From the dark days of late 70s , early 80s when we were close to bankruptcy to the early 2000s when we were talking about selling Tynecastle and renting Murrayfield (what a disaster that would have been) to the administration days at end of Romanov period.    Well done to all involved at Hearts over last 9 years in building a financial footing that guarantees our future as a football club and provides a basis to compete as best we can.  Arguments over managers and players are for other threads.  Let's enjoy the position we are in.

Indeed. I mean, who cares about securing the financial future of the club so our kids and grandkids can also enjoy the ride that supporting Hearts brings.

 

Is the thoughts of some on here symbolic of modern instant gratification culture? Budge, Anderson & Co are playing the long game I'm afraid - our highlights until the infrastructure / investments deliver constant income will (hopefully) be the odd cup final wins, some enjoyable European games home and away - and the odd 5-0 humping of an SPFL team.

 

No issue people querying / questioning spending & budgets, it's healthy to debate and educate.

 

But think it's fairly obvious now that JA or the board aren't going to gamble even £10m on 2-3 players who might or might not work out (google bigot brother transfer flops and see how much they've wasted over the years).

[soonbe110]

47 minutes ago, Sooks said:

And you have to factor in the other methods of variable income . We start of on a stronger footing than Aberdeen as we have more fans , but then you have to take in to consideration

 

Player sales

Benefactor donations

Non footballing income

Owner contributions

 

Aberdeen offset our financial advantage with player sales

 

We are well ahead in benefactor donations 

 

Non footballing income Aberdeen we’re ahead by quite a distance through hospitality connected to oil industry - our infrastructure projects and hospitality Inc restaurant and hotel are hopefully closing that gap or even eclipsing it 

 

Cormack has been covering Aberdeens massive overspending for over a decade to the tune of millions per season . His other business interests probably spread these losses . Would be funny if he was keeping a tab though and eventually called it in - We are owners at Hearts and we put in a million and a half every season but we put it in before it is budgeted for just like the benefactor donations . Cormack lets Aberdeen overspend and covers the inevitable big losses they accrue trying to keep pace 

 

Our way is stable and levels out at a similar place to Aberdeen 

We are doing better on benefactors there’s no doubt but they also have benefactors who have been either lending them money, interest free, as well as loans that will convert to equity ag some point in the future.   Their gains on player sales are also significantly better than ours over the last few years with the sales of McKenna, Ferguson et al 

[Jim Panzee]

23 minutes ago, Carter said:

It does illustrate how costly our collapse was last season though. Another season of Conference League income and thus depriving an immediate rival of that windfall cannot be understated. 

 

We absolutely must finish third this season. 

yeap - so important finanically.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

Indeed but, for both us and Aberdeen, one season in the Conference leagues isn't a potential medium to long term game changer whereas 3 or 4 might well be.  

Indeed, though the actual involvement in the competition, does hinder the chance to repeat the League form. Where you really need 2 strong for each position

[Jambo-Fox]

1 hour ago, Famous 1874 said:

It’s more the principle as to why they were selected.
 

I highly doubt there was any sort of real selection process. 

 

Should be investigated and the board should have to answer the process on deciding contractors.

If they can be trusted to deliver on what’s agreed, are competitive on price and perform to a high standard then I don’t see what the problem is.

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

We are doing better on benefactors there’s no doubt but they also have benefactors who have been either lending them money, interest free, as well as loans that will convert to equity ag some point in the future.   Their gains on player sales are also significantly better than ours over the last few years with the sales of McKenna, Ferguson et al 

Yeah I mentioned they were well ahead on player sales . The issue there is that you have to replace those players . They managed to finish above us despite having to do that and it pisses me off still . We had money without having to sell while Aberdeen had to lose some of their best players and Neilson let them finish above us by playing a busted flush game after game and being more interested in smashing a wee ball about with a stick

 

Yeah good point on the benefactors 

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Fox said:

If they can be trusted to deliver on what’s agreed, are competitive on price and perform to a high standard then I don’t see what the problem is.

to be fair, whilst there is a chance that AB's bro is the most competitive and highest standard etc, there's defo a sniff of nepotism about it.

[Bad Religion]

4 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Yeah I mentioned they were well ahead on player sales . The issue there is that you have to replace those players . They managed to finish above us despite having to do that and it pisses me off still . We had money without having to sell while Aberdeen had to lose some of their best players and Neilson let them finish above us by playing a busted flush game after game and being more interested in smashing a wee ball about with a stick

 

Yeah good point on the benefactors 

 

 

Your first decent post, well done!

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Hope you do not drink in Diggers then mate 

Strange thing to say?

[Sooks]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Strange thing to say?

Kevin no longer in charge there then

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Sooks said:

Kevin no longer in charge there then

He is, unscrupulous Hibbys love making a fortune of us Jambos. 

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

He is, unscrupulous Hibbys love making a fortune of us Jambos. 

Well yes that was my point . The other poster was indignant about lining the pockets of a Hibs supporter . Just one of those things really unless we are to only exchange money for goods and services with people after establishing what football team they support . That would be crazy though 

[loveofthegame]

8 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Even if the sheep hit £15m, a £5m differential is hugely significant as a percentage figure.

 

Which is why third again last season was so key... but as we all know we blew that!

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Well yes that was my point . The other poster was indignant about lining the pockets of a Hibs supporter . Just one of those things really unless we are to only exchange money for goods and services with people after establishing what football team they support . That would be crazy though 

Sorry I haven’t had a coffee yet, good point though and I agree 👍🏽. 

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Sorry I haven’t had a coffee yet, good point though and I agree 👍🏽. 

No worries mate I was probably a bit narkier than was necessary too so sorry  

[gordon simpson]

14 hours ago, Armageddon said:

Are the dafties on this thread the same ones that implode at various points through the season, now think Hibs are an amazing footballing side and finally think Shankland is fat and shite?

 

Just joining the dots.

spot on

[Japan Jambo]

3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

If Aberdeen get the same uefa boost this season that we did last season their turnover will be over £20m for year to June 24. There’s really little difference between the two clubs financially. 

 

20mm doesn't include 6mm of donations. Not sure what Aberdeen report on that score but I can't imagine McCormack tipped in anything at that level.

 

Having failed to secure 3rd though does mean we have failed in our bid to put clear water between Aberdeen/Hibs. 

[August Landmesser]

In the medium to long-term Aberdeen are going to have to replace/rebuild their stadium too. That will be a huge financial outlay that we don't have to worry about (if we wanted to extend Tynie, then that's another story, but extending is a nice to have, not a must have), whilst our infrastructure is now making us money, Aberdeen's will be siphoning off money in upkeep and future building costs.

[Fort Vallance]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Indeed but, for both us and Aberdeen, one season in the Conference leagues isn't a potential medium to long term game changer whereas 3 or 4 might well be.  

Which makes last season even more frustrating.

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

In the medium to long-term Aberdeen are going to have to replace/rebuild their stadium too. That will be a huge financial outlay that we don't have to worry about (if we wanted to extend Tynie, then that's another story, but extending is a nice to have, not a must have), whilst our infrastructure is now making us money, Aberdeen's will be siphoning off money in upkeep and future building costs.

Yip and you do not start spending millions on a stadium while recording five million pound losses year on year 

[TheBigO]

All the chat of the benefactor money.  There are very few teams in Scotland not propped up by indivduals or groups just putting money in with little or no chance of return.  It's an issue.  Its unsustainable.

 

Our model isn't that.  We have people improving the infrastructure of our club as they believe it to be of value and benefit to the community.  We benefit from that.  And it's not for our day to day operations like it is with quite a number of other team.

 

Let's also remember we don't have a booze company or betting firm paying us to be on our strips, so a big chunk of the philanthropy is actually essentially to allow advertising for charity on our strips.  That's replacement income we'd be making elsewhere if we didn't have this setup.  What would we expect our main sponsors to pay us each year?

 

We're self sustaining.  But we're also building - and it's the building which is getting the phree munny.  We're in an extremely strong position.

 

I'm nae accountant and in truth the accounts and all the amateur finance director stuff in football bores the shit out of me.  But I do take a bit of interest in seeing our club being built to look to break through its glass ceiling, which is what I truly believe we're doing.

 

As I and many others have said, so much of it needs to come back to the pitch.  Not the benefactor money being used on wages, not as directly as that.  I just mean the entire "brand" needs the football to be working.

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

All the chat of the benefactor money.  There are very few teams in Scotland not propped up by indivduals or groups just putting money in with little or no chance of return.  It's an issue.  Its unsustainable.

 

Our model isn't that.  We have people improving the infrastructure of our club as they believe it to be of value and benefit to the community.  We benefit from that.  And it's not for our day to day operations like it is with quite a number of other team.

 

Let's also remember we don't have a booze company or betting firm paying us to be on our strips, so a big chunk of the philanthropy is actually essentially to allow advertising for charity on our strips.  That's replacement income we'd be making elsewhere if we didn't have this setup.  What would we expect our main sponsors to pay us each year?

 

We're self sustaining.  But we're also building - and it's the building which is getting the phree munny.  We're in an extremely strong position.

 

I'm nae accountant and in truth the accounts and all the amateur finance director stuff in football bores the shit out of me.  But I do take a bit of interest in seeing our club being built to look to break through its glass ceiling, which is what I truly believe we're doing.

 

As I and many others have said, so much of it needs to come back to the pitch.  Not the benefactor money being used on wages, not as directly as that.  I just mean the entire "brand" needs the football to be working.

Stop that right now please !  
 

The rest of it I completely agree with and you put it better than I am able to . Spot on 

[Jim Panzee]

4 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

All the chat of the benefactor money.  There are very few teams in Scotland not propped up by indivduals or groups just putting money in with little or no chance of return.  It's an issue.  Its unsustainable.

 

Our model isn't that.  We have people improving the infrastructure of our club as they believe it to be of value and benefit to the community.  We benefit from that.  And it's not for our day to day operations like it is with quite a number of other team.

 

Let's also remember we don't have a booze company or betting firm paying us to be on our strips, so a big chunk of the philanthropy is actually essentially to allow advertising for charity on our strips.  That's replacement income we'd be making elsewhere if we didn't have this setup.  What would we expect our main sponsors to pay us each year?

 

We're self sustaining.  But we're also building - and it's the building which is getting the phree munny.  We're in an extremely strong position.

 

I'm nae accountant and in truth the accounts and all the amateur finance director stuff in football bores the shit out of me.  But I do take a bit of interest in seeing our club being built to look to break through its glass ceiling, which is what I truly believe we're doing.

 

As I and many others have said, so much of it needs to come back to the pitch.  Not the benefactor money being used on wages, not as directly as that.  I just mean the entire "brand" needs the football to be working.

 

Ironically, our benefactors primary aim is to remove the need for individual / traditional benefactor / owners to pump money into the club to provide self sustainability.

 

 

[Dazo]

9 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

All the chat of the benefactor money.  There are very few teams in Scotland not propped up by indivduals or groups just putting money in with little or no chance of return.  It's an issue.  Its unsustainable.

 

Our model isn't that.  We have people improving the infrastructure of our club as they believe it to be of value and benefit to the community.  We benefit from that.  And it's not for our day to day operations like it is with quite a number of other team.

 

Let's also remember we don't have a booze company or betting firm paying us to be on our strips, so a big chunk of the philanthropy is actually essentially to allow advertising for charity on our strips.  That's replacement income we'd be making elsewhere if we didn't have this setup.  What would we expect our main sponsors to pay us each year?

 

We're self sustaining.  But we're also building - and it's the building which is getting the phree munny.  We're in an extremely strong position.

 

I'm nae accountant and in truth the accounts and all the amateur finance director stuff in football bores the shit out of me.  But I do take a bit of interest in seeing our club being built to look to break through its glass ceiling, which is what I truly believe we're doing.

 

As I and many others have said, so much of it needs to come back to the pitch.  Not the benefactor money being used on wages, not as directly as that.  I just mean the entire "brand" needs the football to be working.

Good post BigO. Some people must really struggle with basic skills if they can’t seen how the benefactor money is used and its purpose. If you really can’t see the benefits in growing the club to get us to a stage where we can provide more to the footballing side I’m not sure there is much else to say. This money isn’t used to show a profit, pay wages we can’t afford or having to rely on benefactor money in any way. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Dazo

[TheBigO]

13 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Stop that right now please !  
 

The rest of it I completely agree with and you put it better than I am able to . Spot on 

WHat?! It's true!!!!haha. 

[jambo89]

4 hours ago, red said:

 

Disagree entirely 
 

our profit isn’t up! Our subscriptions probably are down (waiting list increase v previous year) and investments (playing squad) has failed. 
 

A good year would have been….

 

£2m+ Nett Profit (10%)

100% increase on waiting list 

Hotel Complete and trading 

 

and the most important one of all

 

Squad improvement allowing us to BUILD on that the following year 

 

Assuming Joe Savage is in full charge of recruitment he is to blame for increased wages which have impacted profits massively (we WOULD have hit £2m profits alone without this increase) 

 

if the recruitment was on point and we were winning and hitting at least 3rd again we can assume another huge spike on waiting list 

 

With £2m profits the hotel would be complete and trading perhaps 

 

The Gap between Aberdeen and St Mirren would be much bigger and we would have another £2m + Hotel Profits to look forward to next financial accounts. 
 

Suggesting that any business with ‘profit” is doing well despite around £6m invested from outside is ludicrous I’n afraid and as a serial business owner if you were my GM you would be sacked this morning after that statement. 

 

I assume you don't think Shankland, Rowles, Oda, Zander clark weren't improvements on Gnanduilet, Taylor-Moore, Jordan Roberts and Ross Stewart then?

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

2 hours ago, Famous 1874 said:

It’s more the principle as to why they were selected.
 

I highly doubt there was any sort of real selection process. 

 

Should be investigated and the board should have to answer the process on deciding contractors.

 

You've got your wee conspiracy claws on something that might be/might not be or is definitely not a thing and you are not letting go.

 

The most likely scenario is that, like all people AB has her contacts that she can bring to the benefit of Hearts. Anyone can see that she is a decent person who is doing the best for the club (that she also saved from oblivion). One of her best personal contacts is also donating millions every year to our club (I don't hear you asking for an investigation into how JA is on the Board!).

 

The fact that you "highly doubt there was any sort of real selection process" and your assumption (without any evidence whatsoever) that there was some kind of dodgy deal says more about your need to criticise the club.

 

 

[Bull's-eye]

4 hours ago, red said:

 

Disagree entirely 
 

our profit isn’t up! Our subscriptions probably are down (waiting list increase v previous year) and investments (playing squad) has failed. 
 

A good year would have been….

 

£2m+ Nett Profit (10%)

100% increase on waiting list 

Hotel Complete and trading 

 

and the most important one of all

 

Squad improvement allowing us to BUILD on that the following year 

 

Assuming Joe Savage is in full charge of recruitment he is to blame for increased wages which have impacted profits massively (we WOULD have hit £2m profits alone without this increase) 

 

if the recruitment was on point and we were winning and hitting at least 3rd again we can assume another huge spike on waiting list 

 

With £2m profits the hotel would be complete and trading perhaps 

 

The Gap between Aberdeen and St Mirren would be much bigger and we would have another £2m + Hotel Profits to look forward to next financial accounts. 
 

Suggesting that any business with ‘profit” is doing well despite around £6m invested from outside is ludicrous I’n afraid and as a serial business owner if you were my GM you would be sacked this morning after that statement. 

 

 

I doubt you can run a bath successfully coming out with that made up Shite.

 

"A serial business owner"  😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

 

I think you meant cereal.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, loveofthegame said:

 

Which is why third again last season was so key... but as we all know we blew that!

Exactly.

[Dazo]

13 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

You've got your wee conspiracy claws on something that might be/might not be or is definitely not a thing and you are not letting go.

 

The most likely scenario is that, like all people AB has her contacts that she can bring to the benefit of Hearts. Anyone can see that she is a decent person who is doing the best for the club (that she also saved from oblivion). One of her best personal contacts is also donating millions every year to our club (I don't hear you asking for an investigation into how JA is on the Board!).

 

The fact that you "highly doubt there was any sort of real selection process" and your assumption (without any evidence whatsoever) that there was some kind of dodgy deal says more about your need to criticise the club.

 

 

Good post Sub. It seems nepotism  is only an issue when it suits some people agendas. 🙄

[Fxxx the SPFL]

9 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Exactly.

we'll finish third this season imo.

[Carter]

1 hour ago, Bad Religion said:

 

 

Your first decent post, well done!

 

[Armageddon]

20 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

I doubt you can run a bath successfully coming out with that made up Shite.

 

"A serial business owner"  😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

 

I think you meant cereal.

 

That's a bit of a Frostie reply

[Luckies1874]

1 hour ago, loveofthegame said:

 

Which is why third again last season was so key... but as we all know we blew that!

As some of us continually said throughout the season. It was one of the biggest opportunities for real sustained progress that we’ve had. The irony is that some considered it no big deal, what’s a few million thrown away and gifted to our biggest competitor, yet the same names are all over this thread making out all is wonderful in their Jambo La La Land! 
 

So onto this season and the final opportunity for the free pass into the group stages. Can we take advantage of that 2 times out the 3 or is our ability to self harm, as we’ve done again by appointing Naismith, going to jeopardise that open goal and allow someone else those substantial funds….? We shall see! 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

20mm doesn't include 6mm of donations. Not sure what Aberdeen report on that score but I can't imagine McCormack tipped in anything at that level.

 

Having failed to secure 3rd though does mean we have failed in our bid to put clear water between Aberdeen/Hibs. 

Agreed, however our benefactor money is largely used to fund infrastructure projects not first team squad. Clearly it helps  a bit but not hugely. Aberdeen also have benefactors every year putting money in, not as much as us though. Not sure what that money is used for but suspect most of it is on operating expenses given the scale of their losses in recent years. 

[Boof]

2 hours ago, Carter said:

It does illustrate how costly our collapse was last season though. Another season of Conference League income and thus depriving an immediate rival of that windfall cannot be understated. 

 

We absolutely must finish third this season. 

 

Only if first or second are out of reach...  

Edited November 15, 2023 by Boof

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Yip and you do not start spending millions on a stadium while recording five million pound losses year on year 

Think they have largely given up on their original new stadium plans.  They now want the Council to build them a new community stadium at the beach. 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

 

That's a bit of a Frostie reply

 

Tbf he does  think the results  are "greeeaaaaaatttt!"

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Bazzas right boot