Accounts

[Luckies1874]

4 minutes ago, damo said:

Is it fair to say St Mirren have reached their "next level".

 

Personally I can't see it and think they are far more likely to end up the season in 6th than in 3rd but IF St Mirren were to get the Conference League money next season it would be the biggest thing to happen to their club since 1987! Basically doubles their annual turnover with the revenue that brings in.

[davemclaren]

Just now, Luckies1874 said:

 

Personally I can't see it and think they are far more likely to end up the season in 6th than in 3rd but IF St Mirren were to get the Conference League money next season it would be the biggest thing to happen to their club since 1987! Basically doubles their annual turnover with the revenue that brings in.

Indeed. 

[OTT]

16 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Not aware you get points for turnover. By your reckoning, we will never beat Celtic or Rangers and will be closely matched with Aberdeen. Oh wait, that's what is happening. 

It is called sport and sometimes you lose games to teams with smaller turnovers. I suggest you grow a backbone and stop acting like a spoilt child

 

 

Or its about fans being annoyed at the perception of teams with a third of our normal income being able to utilise it better than us. When we've went toe to toe with St Mirren, we've had woefully mixed results. When a team with significantly less resources is able to use them better, shockingly, that annoys me. 

 

I suggest you stop being so ****ing angry all the time, go have a Horlicks and a bloody nap. Jeezo. 

 

[damo]

9 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Or its about fans being annoyed at the perception of teams with a third of our normal income being able to utilise it better than us. When we've went toe to toe with St Mirren, we've had woefully mixed results. When a team with significantly less resources is able to use them better, shockingly, that annoys me. 

 

I suggest you stop being so ****ing angry all the time, go have a Horlicks and a bloody nap. Jeezo. 

 

But this doesn't happen regularly. i.e. Its not the same team that's punching above its weight each season. This year its St Mirren and next it could and will likely be something else unless of course St Mirren do manage to get some consistency with their manager / squad.  In which case, yes, we should be asking serious questions.

 

If you listed the squad values or turnover for clubs in the English premiership and expected the league to finish in that order you would be badly mistaken. As Malinga points out, its the beauty of sport, the favourite doesn't always win.  Sadly in our case against the OF they normally do 😞

 

 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

40 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Not aware you get points for turnover. By your reckoning, we will never beat Celtic or Rangers and will be closely matched with Aberdeen. Oh wait, that's what is happening. 

It is called sport and sometimes you lose games to teams with smaller turnovers. I suggest you grow a backbone and stop acting like a spoilt child

 

Since I've been following Hearts Home and away since 1974 I think it's fair to assume I don't act like a spoilt bratt otherwise I'd have stopped going years ago but the fact of the matter is with our budget we should be well away from the likes of St mirren etc

[Sooks]

Re our accounts and ambitions

 

Fools and bairns should never see half done work 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

19 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Re our accounts and ambitions

 

Fools and bairns should never see half done work 

Let's just cut back our budget to St mirren , motherwell and Dundee levels then because what's the point paying our players alot more if they get beat against shite teams paying a quarter what we are 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Let's just cut back our budget to St mirren , motherwell and Dundee levels then because what's the point paying our players alot more if they get beat against shite teams paying a quarter what we are 

 

Are you being ironic ? Or are you wanting me to respond to that

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

 

Are you being ironic ? Or are you wanting me to respond to that

Tongue and cheek but at the same time for the amount of money that goes into HMFC we should be doing alot better imo , the old firm are miles away but we should be creating a gap from the rest imo 

[Felix Lighter]

Apologies in advance for what is likely a bit of a Peebles question, I've not really paid any attention to this thread.

What did we get for Hickey, 10% or a six figure sum ( £100k )?

Wasn't it supposed to be revealed in this set of results? 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Let's just cut back our budget to St mirren , motherwell and Dundee levels then because what's the point paying our players alot more if they get beat against shite teams paying a quarter what we are 

 

We've been well above those teams last two seasons.

 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Tongue and cheek but at the same time for the amount of money that goes into HMFC we should be doing alot better imo , the old firm are miles away but we should be creating a gap from the rest imo 

Phew !

 

The point in my post was to highlight that we are part way through the process of growing the club and our turnover . We are spreading the money over more people for sure . We are at the point where we are among the favourites for third place whilst also supporting a B Team , an Academy , a training base , a womens team , a restaurant , a couple of bars , a hotel and a catering company on top of the first team . Once we reach the intended targets for these different parts of the club and we increase our turnover by even more , we will be running these added parts of the business and still out performing these other clubs . Work in progress and can not wait to get there 

[Vlad Magic]

4 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Tongue and cheek but at the same time for the amount of money that goes into HMFC we should be doing alot better imo , the old firm are miles away but we should be creating a gap from the rest imo 

The OF are miles away because they have “miles away” more to spend.

 

Unfortunately we don’t have “miles away” more money to spend than the rest.

 

As somebody said earlier there’s always a team or teams that punches above.

 

You are expecting to win when the parameters for winning are based on figures either to minuscule to define a winner or can be completely overcome by a season to end all season from a competitor.

[Vlad Magic]

I want it and I’ve paid for it therefor I want it NOW!!!!  
 

Is the best summation I can come up with.

 

Life, business and indeed football clubs don’t work like that.

 

So the “ I’ve paid for it and I want it NOOOOW” brigade kindly think about it a little bit longer.

[Thunder and Lightning]

5 hours ago, Sooks said:

Phew !

 

The point in my post was to highlight that we are part way through the process of growing the club and our turnover . We are spreading the money over more people for sure . We are at the point where we are among the favourites for third place whilst also supporting a B Team , an Academy , a training base , a womens team , a restaurant , a couple of bars , a hotel and a catering company on top of the first team . Once we reach the intended targets for these different parts of the club and we increase our turnover by even more , we will be running these added parts of the business and still out performing these other clubs . Work in progress and can not wait to get there 

Sooks, mate. We are 9 years into our 5 year plan. 😂 

[Sooks]

21 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Sooks, mate. We are 9 years into our 5 year plan. 😂 

See in those nine years though mate ? Our turnover has increased and with it the sum of the percentage we have to spend on players 

[Thunder and Lightning]

26 minutes ago, Sooks said:

See in those nine years though mate ? Our turnover has increased and with it the sum of the percentage we have to spend on players 

I get that mate, but we seem to be shopping in the same markets. Outside perhaps Shankland and Benni (when fit) none of the rest are of a level above what we always seem to sign. 

 

I don't know at what point we get access to better than average SPL players. But we don't seem to be there yet. 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

I get that mate, but we seem to be shopping in the same markets. Outside perhaps Shankland and Benni (when fit) none of the rest are of a level above what we always seem to sign. 

 

I don't know at what point we get access to better than average SPL players. But we don't seem to be there yet. 

No we are not there yet agreed . We are a bit better but not there yet 

[Daveandal]

When was the last time Hearts qualified for Europe 3 seasons in a row? I don't think we ever have. 

 

If we do this season you could argue that is moving to a new level. We are actually beating the "lesser" teams more than we usually do.

 

I really do think people forget how bad we have been for decades bar the occasional great season.

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Daveandal said:

When was the last time Hearts qualified for Europe 3 seasons in a row? I don't think we ever have. 

 

If we do this season you could argue that is moving to a new level. We are actually beating the "lesser" teams more than we usually do.

 

I really do think people forget how bad we have been for decades bar the occasional great season.

From signing Rherras El Hass , Oshaniwa , Watt , Sammon and Blazej Augustyn to Beni , Shanks , Gordon , Kent and McKay feels like progress to me . Not quite another level in terms of quality but certainly an improvement . Hopefully the longer we increase our turnover the quality will keep rising further 

[Daveandal]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

From signing Rherras El Hass , Oshaniwa , Watt , Sammon and Blazej Augustyn to Beni , Shanks , Gordon , Kent and McKay feels like progress to me . Not quite another level in terms of quality but certainly an improvement . Hopefully the longer we increase our turnover the quality will keep rising further 

 

We all want Hearts to win the league but to think not coming top 4 season after season isn't an improvement on the last 70 years is crazy. 

 

We should drive for better of course but on and off the park we've been in a good place since we've come back up. Some just refuse to acknowledge it.

[Disco Dave]

6 hours ago, Felix Lighter said:

Apologies in advance for what is likely a bit of a Peebles question, I've not really paid any attention to this thread.

What did we get for Hickey, 10% or a six figure sum ( £100k )?

Wasn't it supposed to be revealed in this set of results? 

accounts show £423k from sale of players…… we could be receiving it in a couple of instalments but either way it’s probably not a huge amount.

[GinRummy]

8 hours ago, Daveandal said:

 

We all want Hearts to win the league but to think not coming top 4 season after season isn't an improvement on the last 70 years is crazy. 

 

We should drive for better of course but on and off the park we've been in a good place since we've come back up. Some just refuse to acknowledge it.

If we were regularly top 4 (though third is really where we should be) I'm sure a lot of fan frustration would disappear. We do seem to take one step forward and two back a lot.

[soonbe110]

15 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Tongue and cheek but at the same time for the amount of money that goes into HMFC we should be doing alot better imo , the old firm are miles away but we should be creating a gap from the rest imo 

The financial gap between us and Aberdeen, Hibs isn’t great. We compete decently with them. The gap to the rest financially is big, check the last couple of seasons closing league tables. 

[soonbe110]

12 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

If we were regularly top 4 (though third is really where we should be) I'm sure a lot of fan frustration would disappear. We do seem to take one step forward and two back a lot.

Why should we really be third? 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Why should we really be third? 

Why shouldn't we?

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

46 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

The financial gap between us and Aberdeen, Hibs isn’t great. We compete decently with them. The gap to the rest financially is big, check the last couple of seasons closing league tables. 

Let's see once Aberdeen and Hibs release their financial figures 

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Let's see once Aberdeen and Hibs release their financial figures 

Haven’t they already done so? Aberdeens turnover will be above ours next season.  Ours will drop about £4m due to no Europe and theirs will bounce about £6m 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

Haven’t they already done so? Aberdeens turnover will be above ours next season.  Ours will drop about £4m due to no Europe and theirs will bounce about £6m 

Doubt ours will drop that much because we still had 2 European home games , we didn't have to spend money on the stadium and with it being our 150th year there's so much going on but a take your point about us blowing and gifting Aberdeen the European money

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Aberdeen £15.77 is the latest turnover so we about £5 million more 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

58 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Why should we really be third? 

More season ticket holders than everybody outside old firm , 8.000+ monthly donations which other clubs don't have and can only dream of 

[Swanny17]

My concern is that, despite record turnover (including millions in donations and FOH monies) we only made a very small profit. The product on the park has not improved. Where is all the extra money going? Not trying to be confrontational, just curious. 
 

Are we saying that without the donations, we’d have lost millions? That is concerning in my book. 🤷🏻

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Swanny17 said:

My concern is that, despite record turnover (including millions in donations and FOH monies) we only made a very small profit. The product on the park has not improved. Where is all the extra money going? Not trying to be confrontational, just curious. 
 

Are we saying that without the donations, we’d have lost millions? That is concerning in my book. 🤷🏻

No idea about the first paragraph and would like to know myself.

 

I'd reckon we wouldn't have spent the money if we didn't have it or at least had it coming so I doubt we'd have lost millions, just spent less.

[Bazzas right boot]

12 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

My concern is that, despite record turnover (including millions in donations and FOH monies) we only made a very small profit. The product on the park has not improved. Where is all the extra money going? Not trying to be confrontational, just curious. 
 

Are we saying that without the donations, we’d have lost millions? That is concerning in my book. 🤷🏻

 

Nah, we'd have spent less.

 

What are folk not getting?

 

Donations are clearly agreed early and spending aligned with the overall budget. Same as any income.

We aren't spending too much then begging for Donations at financial end.

 

So don't be concerned.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Bazzas right boot

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

4 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

My concern is that, despite record turnover (including millions in donations and FOH monies) we only made a very small profit. The product on the park has not improved. Where is all the extra money going? Not trying to be confrontational, just curious. 
 

Are we saying that without the donations, we’d have lost millions? That is concerning in my book. 🤷🏻

If we didn't have Mr Anderson donations we'd need to source a major sponsor because part of the reason Mr Anderson puts in money is to choose our shirt sponsor but as you say the product on the park is not what it should be for the resources put into the 1st team 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

More season ticket holders than everybody outside old firm , 8.000+ monthly donations which other clubs don't have and can only dream of 

 

We've been the most consistent team last two seasons and a 3rd or 4th place this season will make that 3 years.

 

Unless you're a screaming lunatic who demands 3rd or everyone OOT every season then that is in line with expectations and is very consistent,  it would be about our 3rd or 4th most consistent period in or modern history. 

 

We maybe aren't pushing forward as fast as most would like but we are establishing ourselves as the 3rd best team.

 

Quite impressive to rein in Aberdeen after our admin and subsequent demotions so fast.

 

 

[Carter]

15 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

More season ticket holders than everybody outside old firm , 8.000+ monthly donations which other clubs don't have and can only dream of 

And some generous fella opening his wallet to the tune of £4,500,000 every year.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 minutes ago, Carter said:

And some generous fella opening his wallet to the tune of £4,500,000 every year.

There's clubs in our league that don't even have that as their total turnover btw 

[Jim Panzee]

9 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

There's clubs in our league that don't even have that as their total turnover btw 

they also have smaller shittier grounds which need a lot less upkeep as they're not going to be playing in europe.

 

they also have to accept gambling / alcohol companies as sponsors.

[kingantti1874]

48 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Doubt ours will drop that much because we still had 2 European home games , we didn't have to spend money on the stadium and with it being our 150th year there's so much going on but a take your point about us blowing and gifting Aberdeen the European money

turnover isn’t impacted by spend mate, only profit but you are right our spend should reduce

 

According to accounts we made £6m ish from Europe I think so I estimated a £4m drop accounting for the games we played .  And I simply gave the sheep the £6m Rough guess but won’t be far off.  
 

I would expect that other off field income will help balance ours a bit.  

[Daveandal]

38 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

We've been the most consistent team last two seasons and a 3rd or 4th place this season will make that 3 years.

 

Unless you're a screaming lunatic who demands 3rd or everyone OOT every season then that is in line with expectations and is very consistent,  it would be about our 3rd or 4th most consistent period in or modern history. 

 

We maybe aren't pushing forward as fast as most would like but we are establishing ourselves as the 3rd best team.

 

Quite impressive to rein in Aberdeen after our admin and subsequent demotions so fast.

 

 

 

Good post.

 

Football isn't played on a spreadsheet but finance clearly has a major correlation to what a team can achieve.

We have underachieved for most of our history bar a few purple patches.

 

At this exact moment we are exactly where you'd expect us to be. 

 

Of course we want more but to not realise, that for Hearts, we are going through one of our better periods is crazy.

 

Scottish football does seem to be splitting on a more consistent basis. Ranger/Celtic clear. Hearts/Aberdeen and to an extent Hibs next. Then the rest. The one team not where they probably should be (give or take) is Dundee Utd.

[Carter]

42 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

There's clubs in our league that don't even have that as their total turnover btw 

It's about £500k short of St Mirrens' turnover. 

[HoGwash]

2 hours ago, Swanny17 said:

My concern is that, despite record turnover (including millions in donations and FOH monies) we only made a very small profit. The product on the park has not improved. Where is all the extra money going? Not trying to be confrontational, just curious. 
 

Are we saying that without the donations, we’d have lost millions? That is concerning in my book. 🤷🏻

We're a football club, we're not supposed to make huge profits. The idea is that we spend roughly the same amount that we expect to bring in (turnover), which is pretty much what we've done.

 

Whether we have spent the money wisely is a whole different debate but the lack of profit simply suggests that our forecasting and budgeting is solid.

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Why shouldn't we?

Aberdeen and Hibs invest virtually as much as us in their playing squads so not sure we should be guaranteed third. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Doubt ours will drop that much because we still had 2 European home games , we didn't have to spend money on the stadium and with it being our 150th year there's so much going on but a take your point about us blowing and gifting Aberdeen the European money

Spending money on the stadium has nothing to do with turnover. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Aberdeen £15.77 is the latest turnover so we about £5 million more 

Turnover isn’t the key figure though.  It’s how much they spend. Aberdeen spent almost as much as us last year. They will likely spend more than us this year as well. Their playing staff numbers and spend suggests they pay their players higher wages than we do. If so they are recruiting at a better level than us. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

More season ticket holders than everybody outside old firm , 8.000+ monthly donations which other clubs don't have and can only dream of 

None of us season ticket holders ever take to the pitch though. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Nah, we'd have spent less.

 

What are folk not getting?

 

Donations are clearly agreed early and spending aligned with the overall budget. Same as any income.

We aren't spending too much then begging for Donations at financial end.

 

So don't be concerned.

🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[Footballfirst]

Latest Turnover figures for those Premiership teams that produce full accounts.

 

Celtic 2023 - £119.9m

Rangers 2023 - £83.8m

Hearts 2023 - £20.8m

Aberdeen 2023 - £15.8m

Hibs 2022 - £11.9m

Dundee United 2022 - £8.3m

Motherwell 2022 - £5.6m

St Mirren 2022 - £4.3m

Ross County 2022 - £4.1m

Edited November 29, 2023 by Footballfirst

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Carter said:

And some generous fella opening his wallet to the tune of £4,500,000 every year.

That money is largely spent on infrastructure projects though.