Accounts

[Chuck Berry]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

If Scotland was independent how would Angus Gunn gain his citizenship? Same for McTominay, Dykes, Brown, et al 

Yes, proper reserve football is a huge void.  Unfortunately the GFA don’t think it is.  Have had the discussion with Maxwell and he doesn’t think it’s sustainable or worthwhile.  Much better if our top clubs youngsters play bounce games against their euro equivalents.  All about money. 

 

They would gain citizenship through their parentage/grandparentage.    Just like Harry Souttar, Jason Cummings and Martin Boyle with Australia. Different countries have different laws, residency can also gain you citizenship (hence why Brazilians have played/play for any number of nations).

 

The problem with proper reserve football is that outwith 3 or 4 clubs, nobody wants to fund it.  The SFA have looked at solutions but it all boils down to money. An U23 league has also been discussed, again, no progress due money, so the gap between U18/Academy football and first team football will remain for many clubs with a patchwork of temporary solutions for the remainder (B teams, half-hearted reserve league, friendlies against EPL teams etc).

[soonbe110]

8 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

They would gain citizenship through their parentage/grandparentage.    Just like Harry Souttar, Jason Cummings and Martin Boyle with Australia. Different countries have different laws, residency can also gain you citizenship (hence why Brazilians have played/play for any number of nations).

 

The problem with proper reserve football is that outwith 3 or 4 clubs, nobody wants to fund it.  The SFA have looked at solutions but it all boils down to money. An U23 league has also been discussed, again, no progress due money, so the gap between U18/Academy football and first team football will remain for many clubs with a patchwork of temporary solutions for the remainder (B teams, half-hearted reserve league, friendlies against EPL teams etc).

Yes, scandalous that an organisation like the SFA can’t find sponsorship for the future of the national game.  Should surely be Nat govt funding for such activities at the worst. Can only be because two clubs don’t want anything to do with it. 

[Chuck Berry]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Yes, scandalous that an organisation like the SFA can’t find sponsorship for the future of the national game.  Should surely be Nat govt funding for such activities at the worst. Can only be because two clubs don’t want anything to do with it. 

 

For reserve football, it's the clubs that need to fund it and the SPFL to find a sponsor.  Looks very unlikely as I don't think there is a will amongst the smaller Premiership sides.

[Doc Rob]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

If Scotland was independent how would Angus Gunn gain his citizenship? Same for McTominay, Dykes, Brown, et al 

Yes, proper reserve football is a huge void.  Unfortunately the GFA don’t think it is.  Have had the discussion with Maxwell and he doesn’t think it’s sustainable or worthwhile.  Much better if our top clubs youngsters play bounce games against their euro equivalents.  All about money. 

Eh? Gunn, McTominay and Dykes all have parents who were born and bred in Scotland. Which is good enough for citizenship in the vast majority of countries (and would have been in Scotland had 2014 gone the other way). Many (Ireland, for instance) will allow you to go back to grandparents.

[Daveandal]

13 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

7 hours ago, Doc Rob said:

Eh? Gunn, McTominay and Dykes all have parents who were born and bred in Scotland. Which is good enough for citizenship in the vast majority of countries (and would have been in Scotland had 2014 gone the other way). Many (Ireland, for instance) will allow you to go back to grandparents.

 

 

Exactly. I think the UEFA rule is grandparents and then individual countries have different rules on citizenship/naturalisation based on years of residence.

 

I'd file the previous comment under just not liking the idea of Independence so I'll make stuff up on a thread that has he haw to do with it. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Daveandal]

13 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

7 hours ago, Doc Rob said:

Eh? Gunn, McTominay and Dykes all have parents who were born and bred in Scotland. Which is good enough for citizenship in the vast majority of countries (and would have been in Scotland had 2014 gone the other way). Many (Ireland, for instance) will allow you to go back to grandparents.

 

 

Exactly. I think the UEFA rule is grandparents and then individual countries have different rules on citizenship/naturalisation based on years of residence.

 

I'd file the previous comment under just not liking the idea of Independence so I'll make stuff up on a thread that has he haw to do with it. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Sooks]

9 minutes ago, Daveandal said:

 

Exactly. I think the UEFA rule is grandparents and then individual countries have different rules on citizenship/naturalisation based on years of residence.

 

I'd file the previous comment under just not liking the idea of Independence so I'll make stuff up on a thread that has he haw to do with it. 🤷‍♂️

 

Yip

[Prehen]

15 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Not for me.

 

Any player, regardless of age should not play if they aren't adding something to the team and helping us try to achieve 3rd.

 

I don't care how we Win cups or finish high in the league. 

 

If we can do that by  developing players, play them and then sell them for money then great, if not and we need older player's from various backgrounds- then equally great.

 

If there is elite at Hearts they’ll likley go before they are 18 to another club or like Hickey,  refuse to extend and leave for nothing.

Most others will need to drop down a level before maybe coming back up the leagues,  but we can't persist with projects between the ages  of 18-26 in the hope enough become good enough. 

 

If some youth develop and add to the squad- great, if we get a gem- brilliant.

If that gem comes from another team or abroad and is older- also great.

I don't care.

 

I have no vested interest in Kirky or Muzz careers, my interest is Hearts and our success we have Shankland and Boyce, before that add  Gino and Simms.

 

Do/ did I want Kirky to play ahead of them just so we can tick a box?

No.

If he's as good or better- yes I hope he plays.

 

It's a hard thing to balance, but playing poorer players in front of better ones shouldn't be on the agenda,  so any youth policy has to work around that or we're harming the team.

I agree with every single word you say above, except for why would we allow "If there is elite at Hearts they’ll likley go before they are 18 to another club or like Hickey". When I talk youth, I mean 16-19, as this is the age the premium is paid. I want nothing but the best for Hearts but another Hickey leaving for next to nothing can not be allowed. Football is strange as your the player with the highest potential value might not be your best player. Indeed, in Hearts case, it might be a player who is not even in the First Team squad. I would argue there must be a better way to ensure Hearts win football matches while ensuring they don't lose out financially.

I would also contend some action is needed to ensure " some youth develop and add to the squad- great, if we get a gem- brilliant". This does not happen or materialise without a plan. I see no evidence of this.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Prehen said:

I agree with every single word you say above, except for why would we allow "If there is elite at Hearts they’ll likley go before they are 18 to another club or like Hickey". When I talk youth, I mean 16-19, as this is the age the premium is paid. I want nothing but the best for Hearts but another Hickey leaving for next to nothing can not be allowed. Football is strange as your the player with the highest potential value might not be your best player. Indeed, in Hearts case, it might be a player who is not even in the First Team squad. I would argue there must be a better way to ensure Hearts win football matches while ensuring they don't lose out financially.

I would also contend some action is needed to ensure " some youth develop and add to the squad- great, if we get a gem- brilliant". This does not happen or materialise without a plan. I see no evidence of this.

 

We'll be losing 2 players to Aston Villa when they turn 16. What are we meant to do about that?

[Prehen]

8 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

We'll be losing 2 players to Aston Villa when they turn 16. What are we meant to do about that?

Treat it as the success story for which it is and ensure Hearts get as much kudos for developing two fantastic footballers. But remember this, we sold Simie to Aston Villa in July 22. He has just lost his place in the Aston Villa u18 side to Aidan Borland who moved from Celtic in the summer. The idea one path leads to glory and one path to ruin is a false narrative.

I would like to think the club our discussing options with kids. Hearts can not compete with EPL money, that is clear and understood by all. But it can actually offer something which England can not - a quicker route to first team football. While I am not for one minute advocating making promises or guarantees, I would expect Hearts to be selling a very compelling case to these two 16 year olds.

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, Prehen said:

Treat it as the success story for which it is and ensure Hearts get as much kudos for developing two fantastic footballers. But remember this, we sold Simie to Aston Villa in July 22. He has just lost his place in the Aston Villa u18 side to Aidan Borland who moved from Celtic in the summer. The idea one path leads to glory and one path to ruin is a false narrative.

I would like to think the club our discussing options with kids. Hearts can not compete with EPL money, that is clear and understood by all. But it can actually offer something which England can not - a quicker route to first team football. While I am not for one minute advocating making promises or guarantees, I would expect Hearts to be selling a very compelling case to these two 16 year olds.

I‘m guessing it was a big part in Hickeys reasoning for rejoining us from Celtic so I’d like to think we do play that card. 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Prehen said:

Treat it as the success story for which it is and ensure Hearts get as much kudos for developing two fantastic footballers. 

 

"I want nothing but the best for Hearts but another Hickey leaving for next to nothing can not be allowed."

 

Since Brexit, our young players are more attractive down south.

The reality now is that anyone of Hickey's calibre will be away before we even get a pro contract signed.

 

We have no way of preventing it, even the OF are prone to it.

[Prehen]

13 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

"I want nothing but the best for Hearts but another Hickey leaving for next to nothing can not be allowed."

 

Since Brexit, our young players are more attractive down south.

The reality now is that anyone of Hickey's calibre will be away before we even get a pro contract signed.

 

We have no way of preventing it, even the OF are prone to it.

Totally Brexit changed landscape. But Hearts have a very attractive option to elite youth in Scotland. The OF are different to Hearts as they basically have to win every game no matter what. We need to show we can be different to OF.  Hearts can put forward a proposition that allows elite youth in Scotland a different option than heading South. I truly believe this.

Simie is not making an U18 team. Lying in his bed at night his thoughts would now naturally think what if he was First Team squad in Hearts rather than bench in an U18 team. I hope Hearts are reminding people the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

 

[jamboinglasgow]

31 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I‘m guessing it was a big part in Hickeys reasoning for rejoining us from Celtic so I’d like to think we do play that card. 

 

Yeah, its clear Hickey and those around him had a clear plan to develop his career as quickly as possible and it really paid off. If he stayed at Celtic I dont think he would have got game time until maybe he was 20, by then he has missed a lot of possible game time. So it shows how important being at a club who is prepared to give youngsters an early chance.

 

Looking at the youngsters who have moved down south from Scottish clubs, how many have broken through? Gilmour and Doak are the only big success story I can think of. Marc Leonard is doing well in League one but that is after almost 6 years being down south. Rory Wilson is banging goals in for Aston Villa's  youth teams but not getting anywhere near the first team squad. Ryan One made his premier league debut for Sheffield United but not been on the bench since (though he is an example of playing first team football before moving.)

 

To me I know young players will back themselves and the money is usually better than up here, but they are going into a meat grinder of youth development system, clubs are throwing as many players into the youth squads just in case one makes it and either plays well or they can sell for lots of money. I think players will do a lot better long term if they stay up here and get early game time (if clubs are willing to do that) and build their development from there before moving on. I think players will do better breaking through at 16 or 17, kicking on, then from 18 it opens up better oppourtunties in Europe. Add that I want to see Hearts more willing to give young players a chance.

Edited November 30, 2023 by jamboinglasgow

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Prehen said:

Totally Brexit changed landscape. But Hearts have a very attractive option to elite youth in Scotland. The OF are different to Hearts as they basically have to win every game no matter what. We need to show we can be different to OF.  Hearts can put forward a proposition that allows elite youth in Scotland a different option than heading South. I truly believe this.

Simie is not making an U18 team. Lying in his bed at night his thoughts would now naturally think what if he was First Team squad in Hearts rather than bench in an U18 team. I hope Hearts are reminding people the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

 

 

Even the OF are losing their Doaks and Gilmours

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Prehen said:

I agree with every single word you say above, except for why would we allow "If there is elite at Hearts they’ll likley go before they are 18 to another club or like Hickey". When I talk youth, I mean 16-19, as this is the age the premium is paid. I want nothing but the best for Hearts but another Hickey leaving for next to nothing can not be allowed. Football is strange as your the player with the highest potential value might not be your best player. Indeed, in Hearts case, it might be a player who is not even in the First Team squad. I would argue there must be a better way to ensure Hearts win football matches while ensuring they don't lose out financially.

I would also contend some action is needed to ensure " some youth develop and add to the squad- great, if we get a gem- brilliant". This does not happen or materialise without a plan. I see no evidence of this.

 

We lose youth players before they can sign pro terms,  it's completely out of our hands.

 

It's a shite situation tbh.

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, Prehen said:

Totally Brexit changed landscape. But Hearts have a very attractive option to elite youth in Scotland. The OF are different to Hearts as they basically have to win every game no matter what. We need to show we can be different to OF.  Hearts can put forward a proposition that allows elite youth in Scotland a different option than heading South. I truly believe this.

Simie is not making an U18 team. Lying in his bed at night his thoughts would now naturally think what if he was First Team squad in Hearts rather than bench in an U18 team. I hope Hearts are reminding people the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

 

 

We really aren’t that attractive tbh.

We are probably in the worse situation possible. 

 

We aren't a bottom 6 club or championship club that is forced to play youth to due budget constraints therefore we  try and get better players in to deliver 3rd place finishes ( as we should be) but can't compete financially with teams down south or the of for the very best in the country. 

 

We also have more expectation to deliver instant success so unlike other teams can't give them a training season or 2 before in the 1st team before they come good.

 

So for 1st team football opportunities and in terms of finance we aren't in a good position. 

 

Young players also old all the cards regarding contracts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

47 minutes ago, Prehen said:

Treat it as the success story for which it is and ensure Hearts get as much kudos for developing two fantastic footballers. But remember this, we sold Simie to Aston Villa in July 22. He has just lost his place in the Aston Villa u18 side to Aidan Borland who moved from Celtic in the summer. The idea one path leads to glory and one path to ruin is a false narrative.

I would like to think the club our discussing options with kids. Hearts can not compete with EPL money, that is clear and understood by all. But it can actually offer something which England can not - a quicker route to first team football. While I am not for one minute advocating making promises or guarantees, I would expect Hearts to be selling a very compelling case to these two 16 year olds.

 

 

It wasn't a success story for Hearts tho and you also have fans moaning about not playing enough youth. 

 

Hearts spending years on a player and then them ****ing off is really of no interest to me.

Great for the kids, but I'm interested in Hearts doing well, not really interested in what's best for individuals.

 

[Pans Jambo]

14 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Yes, scandalous that an organisation like the SFA can’t find sponsorship for the future of the national game.  Should surely be Nat govt funding for such activities at the worst. Can only be because two clubs don’t want anything to do with it. 

Why would they? One thinks they're Irish and the other thinks they're English!

[Prehen]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

It wasn't a success story for Hearts tho and you also have fans moaning about not playing enough youth. 

 

Hearts spending years on a player and then them ****ing off is really of no interest to me.

Great for the kids, but I'm interested in Hearts doing well, not really interested in what's best for individuals.

 

Again I think we agree. I am just saying that I would expect Hearts to find a solution that allows elite youth a chance, while not jeopardising aspirations for third. If Hearts develop a player then they should and need to be recompensed for it. I think it can be win win win for club / player / fans. But it needs everyone to change mindsets.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

We really aren’t that attractive tbh.

We are probably in the worse situation possible. 

 

We aren't a bottom 6 club or championship club that is forced to play youth to due budget constraints therefore we  try and get better players in to deliver 3rd place finishes ( as we should be) but can't compete financially with teams down south or the of for the very best in the country. 

 

We also have more expectation to deliver instant success so unlike other teams can't give them a training season or 2 before in the 1st team before they come good.

 

So for 1st team football opportunities and in terms of finance we aren't in a good position. 

 

Young players also old all the cards regarding contracts.

 

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

It wasn't a success story for Hearts tho and you also have fans moaning about not playing enough youth. 

 

Hearts spending years on a player and then them ****ing off is really of no interest to me.

Great for the kids, but I'm interested in Hearts doing well, not really interested in what's best for individuals.

 

 

These.

Good for the lads, wish them well. But my interest is Hearts' first team and things that benefit us. Putting time, effort and money into growing our own, only to have them cherry picked before they kick a ball is an absolute ****ing bollocks.

 

130 staff on the football side of things, and who benefits from all that extra spend? Aston Villa's reserves.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Prehen said:

Again I think we agree. I am just saying that I would expect Hearts to find a solution that allows elite youth a chance, while not jeopardising aspirations for third. If Hearts develop a player then they should and need to be recompensed for it. I think it can be win win win for club / player / fans. But it needs everyone to change mindsets.

 

Fair enough, but Every club will be looking for that magic formula.

 

Not sure about mindset change,  I don't think anyone is against that idea, it's just that it's almost impossible.

 

Room for improvement in this area- for sure.

Too many variables outwith our control to make it a dependable and reliable business, growth or football model tho imo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Bazzas right boot

[FIGJAM]

2 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Yeah, its clear Hickey and those around him had a clear plan to develop his career as quickly as possible and it really paid off. If he stayed at Celtic I dont think he would have got game time until maybe he was 20, by then he has missed a lot of possible game time. So it shows how important being at a club who is prepared to give youngsters an early chance.

 

Looking at the youngsters who have moved down south from Scottish clubs, how many have broken through? Gilmour and Doak are the only big success story I can think of. Marc Leonard is doing well in League one but that is after almost 6 years being down south. Rory Wilson is banging goals in for Aston Villa's  youth teams but not getting anywhere near the first team squad. Ryan One made his premier league debut for Sheffield United but not been on the bench since (though he is an example of playing first team football before moving.)

 

To me I know young players will back themselves and the money is usually better than up here, but they are going into a meat grinder of youth development system, clubs are throwing as many players into the youth squads just in case one makes it and either plays well or they can sell for lots of money. I think players will do a lot better long term if they stay up here and get early game time (if clubs are willing to do that) and build their development from there before moving on. I think players will do better breaking through at 16 or 17, kicking on, then from 18 it opens up better oppourtunties in Europe. Add that I want to see Hearts more willing to give young players a chance.

Hickey's agent is from Glasgow??
Just a pity Hearts have zero interest in adopting such an approach. Of the three current Hearts first team coaches, one told two boys to take offers and head south. Another currently has a boy at Dundee Utd who has been trialing at Brighton and Southampton, so he is no promotor of Scottish youth staying in Scotland.

You couldn’t make it up if you tried.

[damo]

2 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

We really aren’t that attractive tbh.

We are probably in the worse situation possible. 

 

We aren't a bottom 6 club or championship club that is forced to play youth to due budget constraints therefore we  try and get better players in to deliver 3rd place finishes ( as we should be) but can't compete financially with teams down south or the of for the very best in the country. 

 

We also have more expectation to deliver instant success so unlike other teams can't give them a training season or 2 before in the 1st team before they come good.

 

So for 1st team football opportunities and in terms of finance we aren't in a good position. 

 

Young players also old all the cards regarding contracts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good points. 

 

I'd add that Naismith (and Neilson before) would probably love nothing more than Hearts getting 2 or 3 goals ahead at home and being able to field some younger lads. Unfortunately, over half the teams come to Tynecastle looking to defend a 0-0 and anything else is a bonus.  If we don't get a couple of early goals its a nervy affair for 90 mins.  

 

What was one of the positives from the 2013/14 relegation season was blooding so many young Hearts players and seeing them develop.

 

 

 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Why would they? One thinks they're Irish and the other thinks they're English!

Sfa, guardians of Scottish football, should be ensuring appropriate reserve team football is in place regardless of what two specific clubs say   It’s a key part of the development map for young Scottish footballers 

[Daveandal]

49 minutes ago, damo said:

Good points. 

 

I'd add that Naismith (and Neilson before) would probably love nothing more than Hearts getting 2 or 3 goals ahead at home and being able to field some younger lads. Unfortunately, over half the teams come to Tynecastle looking to defend a 0-0 and anything else is a bonus.  If we don't get a couple of early goals its a nervy affair for 90 mins.  

 

What was one of the positives from the 2013/14 relegation season was blooding so many young Hearts players and seeing them develop.

 

 

 

 

I'm a big Neilson fan but he said on several podcasts that he saw no value is putting on a youngster when 4-0 up. What do they learn? I'm sure he said on a scarves around the funnel podcast that you can end up with players who have technically played loads of times but all in nothing situations (I'm paraphrasing massively).

 

I totally understand the argument, I do disagree with it though.

I fear Naismith might think our youngsters aren't good enough as he has seem them up close... the problem is another coach is getting more out of them.

[Bazzas right boot]

13 minutes ago, Daveandal said:

 

I'm a big Neilson fan but he said on several podcasts that he saw no value is putting on a youngster when 4-0 up. What do they learn? I'm sure he said on a scarves around the funnel podcast that you can end up with players who have technically played loads of times but all in nothing situations (I'm paraphrasing massively).

 

I totally understand the argument, I do disagree with it though.

I fear Naismith might think our youngsters aren't good enough as he has seem them up close... the problem is another coach is getting more out of them.

 

Pros and cons, introducing them in a happy, confident team is better for an introduction as opposed to a team fighting relegation with the goon squad on their back.

Longer term, you ofc learn more about them and they develop character etc in adversity. 

Mirrors life really.

 

Unsure why you fear Naismiths judgement because he's worked with the young players, that makes no sense

 

 

 

[Chuck Berry]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Sfa, guardians of Scottish football, should be ensuring appropriate reserve team football is in place regardless of what two specific clubs say   It’s a key part of the development map for young Scottish footballers 

 

The SFA is a members organisation. If the member don't want something then it doesn't happen.

[Daveandal]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Pros and cons, introducing them in a happy, confident team is better for an introduction as opposed to a team fighting relegation with the goon squad on their back.

Longer term, you ofc learn more about them and they develop character etc in adversity. 

Mirrors life really.

 

Unsure why you fear Naismiths judgement because he's worked with the young players, that makes no sense

 

 

 

 

Fear is maybe to harsh a word. I went to a few B games and he was tough on them. They were lower mid table in the end. This season. More or less the same squad and they are flying.

 

Not a criticism of SN as a coach but might he have made his mind up on some players too early? 🤷‍♂️

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Daveandal said:

 

Fear is maybe to harsh a word. I went to a few B games and he was tough on them. They were lower mid table in the end. This season. More or less the same squad and they are flying.

 

Not a criticism of SN as a coach but might he have made his mind up on some players too early? 🤷‍♂️

 

Maybe, I have no idea.

 

He'll have seen and worked with lots of youth players so hopefully he has a good read on those that  at the club that are good enough and those who that are not.

 

 

 

[damo]

32 minutes ago, Daveandal said:

 

I'm a big Neilson fan but he said on several podcasts that he saw no value is putting on a youngster when 4-0 up. What do they learn? I'm sure he said on a scarves around the funnel podcast that you can end up with players who have technically played loads of times but all in nothing situations (I'm paraphrasing massively).

 

I totally understand the argument, I do disagree with it though.

I fear Naismith might think our youngsters aren't good enough as he has seem them up close... the problem is another coach is getting more out of them.

I didn't realise that so thanks for the info. 

 

I could be dreaming but I'm sure Jeffries did this with reasonable success.  Suppose the crop of youngsters then were possibly at a better level.

 

As an aside, I think we see more of these tight turgid games since the pitch was narrowed. That's an argument for an other day though 😎

[Footballfirst]

20 minutes ago, Daveandal said:

Fear is maybe to harsh a word. I went to a few B games and he was tough on them. They were lower mid table in the end. This season. More or less the same squad and they are flying.

 

Not a criticism of SN as a coach but might he have made his mind up on some players too early? 🤷‍♂️

I think that there are two main drivers to the improvement in the B Team's performance.

One is subtle differences coaching mindsets of SN and LF.  IMO SN was more focussed on shape and retaining possession, while LF encourages exploiting more attacking opportunities using pace and runners, while still maintaining discipline in terms of shape and cover.

 

That said, SN's approach may have been influenced more by what I consider to be the second key factor.  That is the experience, physical and mental development that the squad has gone through.  I don't think that can be understated.  The team initially showed game naivety and weren't physically prepared for the challenges they faced.  The change is like night and day from where they started.

 

I've heard it stated that academy football can be described as non contact sport when compared to the transformation that the B Team has had to go through over the last 18 months.  It must be a shock to the youngsters when they are first faced with players who are willing to almost literally kick them up and down the park. These days, most of the squad have adapted their game accordingly, competing physically but using whatever technical and pace advantages they have.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Footballfirst

[Daveandal]

11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think that there are two main drivers to the improvement in the B Team's performance.

One is subtle differences coaching mindsets of SN and LF.  IMO SN was more focussed on shape and retaining possession, while LF encourages exploiting more attacking opportunities using pace and runners, while still maintaining discipline in terms of shape and cover.

 

That said, SN's approach may have been influenced more by what I consider to be the second key factor.  That is the experience, physical and mental development that the squad has gone through.  I don't think that can be understated.  The team initially showed game naivety and weren't physically prepared for the challenges they faced.  The change is like night and day from where they started.

 

I've heard it stated that academy football can be described as non contact sport when compared to the transformation that the B Team has had to go through over the last 18 months.  It must be a shock to the youngsters when they are first faced with players who are willing to almost literally kick them up and down the park. These days, most of the squad have adapted their game accordingly, competing physically but using whatever technical and pace advantages they have.

 

I wouldn't dare try and compete with your good self on anything B or youth team related. I agree with all you said, only adding they are a year older in a physical sense and an experience sense.

 

Another thing might be the rules for the B Team. Is it still the case that 5 first team appearances and you can't play in the B Team?

[Footballfirst]

10 minutes ago, Daveandal said:

Another thing might be the rules for the B Team. Is it still the case that 5 first team appearances and you can't play in the B Team?

It's 5 games in each half of the season. The counter is reset in January.

[jbee647]

On the subject, I’ve been told that Wilson and Stevenson were given a good financial package to commit to Hearts in face of a lot of interest from EPL clubs, now I’m all for it, it’s the only way we can ever consider keeping the highest standard of young players, however I’ve heard it’s not gone down to well with some of there contemporaries in the young sides, by contemporaries I’m guessing parents.

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

The SFA is a members organisation. If the member don't want something then it doesn't happen.

Yep, two big big members and then a 20 club tail that wags the dog. Between the two the clubs in between have no chance.  Leadership vacuum is the problem. Steve Clarke has bailed them out for now 

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, Daveandal said:

 

I'm a big Neilson fan but he said on several podcasts that he saw no value is putting on a youngster when 4-0 up. What do they learn? I'm sure he said on a scarves around the funnel podcast that you can end up with players who have technically played loads of times but all in nothing situations (I'm paraphrasing massively).

 

I totally understand the argument, I do disagree with it though.

I fear Naismith might think our youngsters aren't good enough as he has seem them up close... the problem is another coach is getting more out of them.

Could just be that the B team improvement is that it’s largely same squad as last season just a year older and a year more experience of LL 

[Bazzas right boot]

15 hours ago, Daveandal said:

 

I wouldn't dare try and compete with your good self on anything B or youth team related. I agree with all you said, only adding they are a year older in a physical sense and an experience sense.

 

Another thing might be the rules for the B Team. Is it still the case that 5 first team appearances and you can't play in the B Team?

 

I'd also suspect squads change a lot and the other teams can vary from season to season ( if not gsme to game) quite dramatically, celtic even pulled out of the league.

 

 

[Chuck Berry]

On 30/11/2023 at 20:54, soonbe110 said:

Yep, two big big members and then a 20 club tail that wags the dog. Between the two the clubs in between have no chance.  Leadership vacuum is the problem. Steve Clarke has bailed them out for now 

 

I think there's now around 120 member clubs.

[soonbe110]

10 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

I think there's now around 120 member clubs.

Yep, but they all wouldnt have a vote on a premiership reserve league. 

[Chuck Berry]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Yep, but they all wouldnt have a vote on a premiership reserve league. 

 

Probably because it's an SPFL matter.

[soonbe110]

7 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Probably because it's an SPFL matter.

Maybe but SPFL not interested in promoting Scottish football as such.  Only interested in their own teams.  Anyway, discussion over for me. Off to Killie. 

[Unknown user]

41 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Maybe but SPFL not interested in promoting Scottish football as such.  Only interested in their own teams.  Anyway, discussion over for me. Off to Killie. 

 

Good luck

[soonbe110]

👍

[lennys4872]

Saw this posted on Hearts reddit - maybe of interest.

 

 

 

[Sooks]

49 minutes ago, lennys4872 said:

Saw this posted on Hearts reddit - maybe of interest.

 

 

 

Quite nice to see it broken down that way . Nice and clear and easy to understand . It does show that the benefactors and to a lesser extent the foundation have allowed us to operate at a higher level , and that we have used that to bring in income from football , specifically European competitions participation and cup runs . I reckon the fact we are behind others on transfer fees coming in is directly related to doing better on the field in all honesty . I maintain I would rather keep our best players and use them to earn the club money in Europe than I would sell them and find ourselves over spending millions like Aberdeen or Hibs . It also just reaffirms my anger at Doncaster and the utterly gash TV deal we get . If we had a better TV deal we would be in a great place 

 

 

Edited March 5 by Sooks

[jamboinglasgow]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Quite nice to see it broken down that way . Nice and clear and easy to understand . It does show that the benefactors and to a lesser extent the foundation have allowed us to operate at a higher level , and that we have used that to bring in income from football , specifically European competitions participation and cup runs . I reckon the fact we are behind others on transfer fees coming in is directly related to doing better on the field in all honesty . I maintain I would rather keep our best players and use them to earn the club money in Europe than I would sell them and find ourselves over spending millions like Aberdeen or Hibs . It also just reaffirms my anger at Doncaster and the utterly gash TV deal we get . If we had a better TV deal we would be in a great place 

 

 

 

The fact we have got to the level we are in regards to finances without player sales is a testament to what the club have done. I think you can still sell some players and keep a stable squad (say we sold two players every year for good money.)

 

While the benefactors have been a big factor, I think its often forgotten that the benefactors money has been really used for capital investment, with the ultimate aim that the investment brings in new revenue to the club to sustain it.

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

The fact we have got to the level we are in regards to finances without player sales is a testament to what the club have done. I think you can still sell some players and keep a stable squad (say we sold two players every year for good money.)

 

While the benefactors have been a big factor, I think its often forgotten that the benefactors money has been really used for capital investment, with the ultimate aim that the investment brings in new revenue to the club to sustain it.

I agree with all of that . My point about transfer fees is more that I suspect the fact we are doing so well on the pitch is by not selling players and keeping them here to help us do well 

[jamboinglasgow]

14 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I agree with all of that . My point about transfer fees is more that I suspect the fact we are doing so well on the pitch is by not selling players and keeping them here to help us do well 

 

Certainly it does, I suspect that we are also not actively trying to punt players. I do think Hibs and Aberdeen are behind the scenes are often putting out that their players are for sell so they know people will try and buy them.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Goodness, £30m in donations. There's no single wealthy owner who will ever come close to matching that.