Accounts

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

What budget advantages? In income terms we were just playing catch up with Hibs and Aberdeen based on their significant player sales in recent years. None of us have a clue as to what Aberdeen and Hibs budgets were. 

Ok, do you think either got anywhere close to £20m in turnover pre donations? Moreover, it is clear we spent the money.

[innerjambo]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

£175k (highest paid director).

 

Hopefully no performance bonuses on top.

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Of course, but not on the scale we've seen in recent years. Operational costs were very large this year. We'd not invest in some of that without Anderson. 

We couldn’t afford to do a lot without Anderson, the football side would actually have to over achieve for a change. 

[Lone Striker]

6 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Everything to do with it given the budgetary advantages we created and the guaranteed European prize money that funded it.

DO we know if exceptional money earned by the team (eg Cup Final or UEFA prize money) is ring-fenced by the Board to use as "extra"  expenditure on the squad ?    The answer to that would determine whether the bit in bold is relevant or not.

 

 

[periodictabledancer]

9 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

For infrastructure. Stand, hotel and will be for new academy.

👍

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

DO we know if exceptional money earned by the team (eg Cup Final or UEFA prize money) is ring-fenced by the Board to use as "extra"  expenditure on the squad ?    The answer to that would determine whether the bit in bold is relevant or not.

 

 

It is immaterial. The key point is the increase in the wages part of expenditure.

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Ok, do you think either got anywhere close to £20m in turnover pre donations? Moreover, it is clear we spent the money.

Aberdeens cost structure in recent years is reflective of a company with a similar turnover to our current one. Their turnover in  2019 was £16m so if the pandemic hadn’t happened they would probably be in the £20m+  range by now.  In any case in recent years they have spent as if they did have a similar turnover as our current level eg last accounts show turnover of circa £14m with a loss of circa £5.5m so their expenditure (£19.5m) was very similar if not ahead of where we currently are. We have had no significant ‘budget’ or spend advantage yet. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Aberdeens cost structure in recent years is reflective of a company with a similar turnover to our current one. Their turnover in  2019 was £16m so if the pandemic hadn’t happened they would probably be in the £20m+  range by now.  In any case in recent years they have spent as if they did have a similar turnover as our current level eg last accounts show turnover of circa £14m with a loss of circa £5.5m so their expenditure (£19.5m) was very similar if not ahead of where we currently are. We have had no significant ‘budget’ or spend advantage yet. 

Cool, let's revisit when the sheep publish in that case.

[brownkg]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I'd like Hearts to invest in one of these.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhAyX81zP2M

Looks very interesting and would be an asset too.
Meanwhile accounts day means it would be rude not to mention the 8.5% increase on my ignore list

[Lone Striker]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

It is immaterial. The key point is the increase in the wages part of expenditure.

The increase in headcount (twice as many  non-football heads than football heads) probably accounts for most of that wages increase.  I don't see any evidence that we've suddenly started paying higher wages to incoming players.   Sorry if I'm picking you up wrongly (again) 😉 

[Luckies1874]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We couldn’t afford to do a lot without Anderson, the football side would actually have to over achieve for a change. 

 

A fair point well made. 

 

 

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I'd like Hearts to invest in one of these.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhAyX81zP2M

Looks a great idea for developing sharpness and passing accuracy.  Do any EPL clubs use this yet ? Any idea what it costs to install one ?

 

If we ever build a brand new training centre  somewhere, one of these should definitely be included.  If its good enough for Borussia Dortmund ........  etc.    Get the Hearts  Board   & FoH to use it for a special  fundraising project.

[Elmo]

Can’t be bothered reading all this but from a skim read 

 

The  accounts are record  numbers 

 

if all the good  things were not there they would be shite accounts.

 

Some boy related to budge is pulling off daylight robbery and charging us  about triple the amount other companies would charge and nobody on the board is doing anything about it. 

 

Robbie is still to blame for just about everything. 
 

Loads of our fans know

off people  who would have lent us 3 million quid for no interest payments. 
 

Think that’s about it 

 

 

[Jambo-Fox]

Worrying:- staff costs 75% of turnover.

 

Exciting:- donations seem to be constant and ongoing

 

Really exciting:- financial results 24/25! Assuming third place achieved season 23/24 resulting in group stage euro football H2 ‘24!

[Unknown user]

59 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

The increase in headcount (twice as many  non-football heads than football heads) probably accounts for most of that wages increase.  I don't see any evidence that we've suddenly started paying higher wages to incoming players.   Sorry if I'm picking you up wrongly (again) 😉 

How many employees do we have?

[stuart500]

We've come a long way from being, what was it, £24 million in debt around 10 years ago.

 

Anyone back then who predicted we'd have a £20 million turnover plus over £6 million in donations in our 22/23 accounts would have probably been sectioned.

 

Easy to forget how far we've come. No it's not all been perfect but it certainly could have been much much worse.

 

 

 

 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

Looks a great idea for developing sharpness and passing accuracy.  Do any EPL clubs use this yet ? Any idea what it costs to install one ?

 

If we ever build a brand new training centre  somewhere, one of these should definitely be included.  If its good enough for Borussia Dortmund ........  etc.    Get the Hearts  Board   & FoH to use it for a special  fundraising project.

Here's a longer video of it.  Price appears to be around £2.5m. At least 3 teams in Germany use it.

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I'd like Hearts to invest in one of these.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhAyX81zP2M

Absolutely. 

[Marty-man]

OK - just seen this thread. Haven't looked through it, but I just know there will be numerous posts that don't understand the ins and outs of Benefactor monies - claiming that we would be in debt without it. I've already spent the evening trying to educate people on twitter. Did the same last year, and will no doubt be doing the same every year until I pop my clogs.

I'll summarise - it's all budgeted for. If we didn't get it, we wouldn't be spending it.
A lot of it ends up behind the scenes, on infrastructure investment. The club is currently building a hotel in the main stand. If the Benefactor and FoH money wasn't coming in, that hotel probably wouldn't be happening. Simples!

So no - we wouldn't be in debt and the Benfactor money IS NOT balancing any books.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Everything to do with it given the budgetary advantages we created and the guaranteed European prize money that funded it.

 

Or

We did well to close the budget advantage Aberdeen etc  had created in 2 seasons after demotion.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Bazzas right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

JB Contracts are still avid sponsors of corporate events etc at Hibs.

 

It’s time we stopped filling the pockets of a Hibby.

 

 

Every time 3.5k Hearts  fans go to ER we fill the pockets of a hibby or when we go to Hampden for their routine filleting in a sf or final.

 

[Section Q]

5 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

They say 1m was paid off in that financial year. Budge earned a wedge of interest so there’s 2m+ left to pay by the looks of things 

Mr Anderson . . . . Do you have a minute . . . ?

[Rocky jamboa]

We go on about rangers and celtics budget being 3/4 times ours. A turnover of £20m means ours is double that of Aberdeen and 4/5 times that of Motherwell, Dundee and Kilmarnocks, teams we've been beaten off this season. 

 

Analysis for me  - should be doing so much better. Its almost scandalous that we're not with that sort of budget!

Edited November 15, 2023 by Rocky jamboa

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

We go on about rangers and celtics budget being 3/4 times ours. A turnover of £20m means ours is double that of Aberdeen and 4/5 times that of Motherwell, Dundee and Kilmarnocks, teams we've been beaten off this season. 

 

Analysis for me  - should be doing so much better. Its almost scandalous that we're not with that sort of budget!

No way our turnover's double Aberdeen's, they'll be fairly level IMO

[Rocky jamboa]

Ours has just been announced as £20m and if you Google "Aberdeen revenue" their accounts shows a turnover of £10.8m. So fact!

[Luckies1874]

6 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

Ours has just been announced as £20m and if you Google "Aberdeen revenue" their accounts shows a turnover of £10.8m. So fact!

 

 

Figures still to be announced in 2023 but last years accounts showed turnover of £13.86 million.

 

https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberdeen-news/aberdeen-fc-losses-more-5million-7840400

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Even if the sheep hit £15m, a £5m differential is hugely significant as a percentage figure.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

33 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

We go on about rangers and celtics budget being 3/4 times ours. A turnover of £20m means ours is double that of Aberdeen and 4/5 times that of Motherwell, Dundee and Kilmarnocks, teams we've been beaten off this season. 

 

Analysis for me  - should be doing so much better. Its almost scandalous that we're not with that sort of budget!

Rangers playing budget is about 4.5 times ours, Celtic's about 6x ours. Our playing budget is a bit over double of Motherwell's and at best about 10% over Aberdeen.

 

In terms of multiples, we are much closer to Livingston than we are to the OF.

[Unknown user]

23 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

Ours has just been announced as £20m and if you Google "Aberdeen revenue" their accounts shows a turnover of £10.8m. So fact!

 

I did, and they don't! They once did though, TBF.

 

What is turnover though? It's affected by us bringing the shop in-house, catering, all that stuff. It doesn't really tell us what's going on financially as all that stuff has associated costs too.

[Luckies1874]

Can dress it up however you like but these figures mean we are announcing turnover which is more than the likes of Motherwell, St Mirren, Kilmarnock and Livingston's combined. Since mid January the first 3 of those clubs have won more points in the League than us! We must do far better results wise against the 'rest' than we have been. Plaudits are merited for some of the off field infrastructure projects but none are deserved for the truly mediocre performance on it, and by the football department in general. 

[Jambo dans les Pyrenees]

6 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I'd like Hearts to invest in one of these.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhAyX81zP2M

Cammy would break that machine 

[Bainy]

Benefactor money will be know to the club at the start of the year and is then invested in infrastructure etc over the course of the year. Its enabling us to develop the stadium and facilities without it putting a strain on our revenue. Once these investments are completed and we have a solution to our training facilities, if the benefactor continues to invest then we will see it hopefully going toward the first team. The profit shows the club is well managed and is spending within a set budget that includes benefactor donations. In the long term these facilities etc will hopefully see us producing home grown talent to sell on amd make money that is where we have been really poor in recent times is developing good young talent to sell at a profit and when we have contracts haven't been managed properly resulting in poor financial return. 

[EH11 2NL]

11 hours ago, stevie1874 said:

So our benefactor still investing plenty  money into club and some were calling him out last week. 😳

Exactly. Millions being ploughed into Hearts and folk are moaning, you'd think this was .net 

Edited November 15, 2023 by EH11 2NL

[Bull's-eye]

In any business if you show a profit, turnover is up, investment is included and the customer base is growing then you sing from the mountain tops. Not that anybody within the club will be doing that because they will do monthly profit & loss reports and know exactly what's going on. 

 

Only the goon squad on JKB struggle with the basics. 

 

Beware the enemy within.

 

 

 

 

[Dazo]

4 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

Can dress it up however you like but these figures mean we are announcing turnover which is more than the likes of Motherwell, St Mirren, Kilmarnock and Livingston's combined. Since mid January the first 3 of those clubs have won more points in the League than us! We must do far better results wise against the 'rest' than we have been. Plaudits are merited for some of the off field infrastructure projects but none are deserved for the truly mediocre performance on it, and by the football department in general. 

Well done, you’ve managed to work out we are much bigger in every way than those clubs. 👍

[red]

People can butter this up all they want. Unless Hearts have invested heavily in areas other than on the park last season this was a shocker and heads should roll.

 

There has been zero improvement on the field and our players wage has increased heavily - This must land at Joe Savages door. 

 

Just over 1% Nett profit is abysmal for such a productive season with such high turnover. 

 

speculatate to accumulate? Yes why not but we ain’t accumulated (unless there’s huge amounts going into future investments such as the hotel)

 

Ultimately our money and James Anderson’s money is NOT being spent wisely looking at that (granted I ain’t looked at the full accounts) 

[red]

36 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

In any business if you show a profit, turnover is up, investment is included and the customer base is growing then you sing from the mountain tops. Not that anybody within the club will be doing that because they will do monthly profit & loss reports and know exactly what's going on. 

 

Only the goon squad on JKB struggle with the basics. 

 

Beware the enemy within.

 

 

 

 

 

Disagree entirely 
 

our profit isn’t up! Our subscriptions probably are down (waiting list increase v previous year) and investments (playing squad) has failed. 
 

A good year would have been….

 

£2m+ Nett Profit (10%)

100% increase on waiting list 

Hotel Complete and trading 

 

and the most important one of all

 

Squad improvement allowing us to BUILD on that the following year 

 

Assuming Joe Savage is in full charge of recruitment he is to blame for increased wages which have impacted profits massively (we WOULD have hit £2m profits alone without this increase) 

 

if the recruitment was on point and we were winning and hitting at least 3rd again we can assume another huge spike on waiting list 

 

With £2m profits the hotel would be complete and trading perhaps 

 

The Gap between Aberdeen and St Mirren would be much bigger and we would have another £2m + Hotel Profits to look forward to next financial accounts. 
 

Suggesting that any business with ‘profit” is doing well despite around £6m invested from outside is ludicrous I’n afraid and as a serial business owner if you were my GM you would be sacked this morning after that statement. 

 

[Baxfee]

51 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

In any business if you show a profit, turnover is up, investment is included and the customer base is growing then you sing from the mountain tops. Not that anybody within the club will be doing that because they will do monthly profit & loss reports and know exactly what's going on. 

 

Only the goon squad on JKB struggle with the basics. 

 

Beware the enemy within.

 

 

 

 

100%. Some just need to put the boot in. Says more about them though and they’re standing out like shiny turds. Becoming easier to ignore! 

[kingantti1874]

5 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Even if the sheep hit £15m, a £5m differential is hugely significant as a percentage figure.

Take £5m from ours and add £5m to theirs next year on account of European football. 

[soonbe110]

6 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Or

We did well to close the budget advantage Aberdeen etc  had created in 2 seasons after demotion.

 

 

 

 

 

Surely not, how could you interpret that from both clubs financials?   😂😂😂😂

[soonbe110]

6 hours ago, Rocky jamboa said:

We go on about rangers and celtics budget being 3/4 times ours. A turnover of £20m means ours is double that of Aberdeen and 4/5 times that of Motherwell, Dundee and Kilmarnocks, teams we've been beaten off this season. 

 

Analysis for me  - should be doing so much better. Its almost scandalous that we're not with that sort of budget!

If Aberdeen get the same uefa boost this season that we did last season their turnover will be over £20m for year to June 24. There’s really little difference between the two clubs financially. 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Surely not, how could you interpret that from both clubs financials?   😂😂😂😂

 

Some expected us to open up a unsailable gap after 1 season and stroll to 3rd every year, yet at the same time ignore the advantage clubs had on us after 2 relegations/ demotions and how we closed the gap on those above us so quickly. 

 

It's amazing what some people miss.

 

 

[soonbe110]

6 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

Figures still to be announced in 2023 but last years accounts showed turnover of £13.86 million.

 

https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberdeen-news/aberdeen-fc-losses-more-5million-7840400

And ours was £14.7m so very little difference.

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

I did, and they don't! They once did though, TBF.

 

What is turnover though? It's affected by us bringing the shop in-house, catering, all that stuff. It doesn't really tell us what's going on financially as all that stuff has associated costs too.

👏👏

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Some expected us to open up a unsailable gap after 1 season and stroll to 3rd every year, yet at the same time ignore the advantage clubs had on us after 2 relegations/ demotions and how we closed the gap on those above us so quickly. 

 

It's amazing what some people miss.

 

 

👍

[TexasAndy]

For an older fan like me this makes great reading.  From the dark days of late 70s , early 80s when we were close to bankruptcy to the early 2000s when we were talking about selling Tynecastle and renting Murrayfield (what a disaster that would have been) to the administration days at end of Romanov period.    Well done to all involved at Hearts over last 9 years in building a financial footing that guarantees our future as a football club and provides a basis to compete as best we can.  Arguments over managers and players are for other threads.  Let's enjoy the position we are in.

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, red said:

People can butter this up all they want. Unless Hearts have invested heavily in areas other than on the park last season this was a shocker and heads should roll.

 

There has been zero improvement on the field and our players wage has increased heavily - This must land at Joe Savages door. 

 

Just over 1% Nett profit is abysmal for such a productive season with such high turnover. 

 

speculatate to accumulate? Yes why not but we ain’t accumulated (unless there’s huge amounts going into future investments such as the hotel)

 

Ultimately our money and James Anderson’s money is NOT being spent wisely looking at that (granted I ain’t looked at the full accounts) 

 

49 minutes ago, red said:

 

Disagree entirely 
 

our profit isn’t up! Our subscriptions probably are down (waiting list increase v previous year) and investments (playing squad) has failed. 
 

A good year would have been….

 

£2m+ Nett Profit (10%)

100% increase on waiting list 

Hotel Complete and trading 

 

and the most important one of all

 

Squad improvement allowing us to BUILD on that the following year 

 

Assuming Joe Savage is in full charge of recruitment he is to blame for increased wages which have impacted profits massively (we WOULD have hit £2m profits alone without this increase) 

 

if the recruitment was on point and we were winning and hitting at least 3rd again we can assume another huge spike on waiting list 

 

With £2m profits the hotel would be complete and trading perhaps 

 

The Gap between Aberdeen and St Mirren would be much bigger and we would have another £2m + Hotel Profits to look forward to next financial accounts. 
 

Suggesting that any business with ‘profit” is doing well despite around £6m invested from outside is ludicrous I’n afraid and as a serial business owner if you were my GM you would be sacked this morning after that statement. 

 

Why would you want us to have two million taxable profit sitting in our account though ? I would far rather we only ever turned over a small profit but saw our turnover continue to rise . What use is two million sitting in the bank that could have been spent on either players or invested in something else which would increase our turnover 

[BlueRiver]

9 hours ago, Elmo said:

Can’t be bothered reading all this but from a skim read 

 

The  accounts are record  numbers 

 

if all the good  things were not there they would be shite accounts.

 

Some boy related to budge is pulling off daylight robbery and charging us  about triple the amount other companies would charge and nobody on the board is doing anything about it. 

 

Robbie is still to blame for just about everything. 
 

Loads of our fans know

off people  who would have lent us 3 million quid for no interest payments. 
 

Think that’s about it 

 

 

 

Cheers. Saves me reading through 5 pages of screeching morons. 

[Famous 1874]

Has someone got the total that we have paid JB Contracts over the years?
 

Total joke that some Hibs ***** is getting our contracts. 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Has someone got the total that we have paid JB Contracts over the years?
 

Total joke that some Hibs ***** is getting our contracts. 

 

What difference does his team make?