Accounts

[Bad Religion]

15 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

Does the wage bill include hospitality staff or is that separate in the accounts?

 

All employees across all departments. 

[Footballfirst]

A comparison of staff numbers and wages from the administration season to now.

 

 

[Carter]

Quite astonishing that someone could go on the defensive when someone raises a perfectly legitimate question about a wage bill increase of £3.2M in a trading period. 

 

[reaths17]

42 minutes ago, Carter said:

Quite astonishing that someone could go on the defensive when someone raises a perfectly legitimate question about a wage bill increase of £3.2M in a trading period. 

 

quite astonishing that, when given extremely positive and very good news, that supposed supporters dive in with relish, trying to tear down the positivity rather than embrace the good news.

 

i dont know a great deal about finance but being of a positive nature and an avid supporter of hearts i will just indulge in the positivity of the announcement of our financial success

[Carter]

30 minutes ago, reaths17 said:

quite astonishing that, when given extremely positive and very good news, that supposed supporters dive in with relish, trying to tear down the positivity rather than embrace the good news.

 

i dont know a great deal about finance but being of a positive nature and an avid supporter of hearts i will just indulge in the positivity of the announcement of our financial success

Not sure I've observed anything of that nature in all honesty. 

[busbyfth]

21 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Wouldn't be belly up as you put it we just wouldn't have new stand and all the other various stadium improvements 

Good point

[JimmyCant]

36 minutes ago, reaths17 said:

quite astonishing that, when given extremely positive and very good news, that supposed supporters dive in with relish, trying to tear down the positivity rather than embrace the good news.

 

i dont know a great deal about finance but being of a positive nature and an avid supporter of hearts i will just indulge in the positivity of the announcement of our financial success

Not entirely sure what is extremely positive about spending more but achieving less. We’re a football club, not a corner shop. Financially successful literally means feck all to Amy football fan unless it’s transferred into football success. It’s like winning the singing at Hampden, meaningless.

[Carter]

31 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Not entirely sure what is extremely positive about spending more but achieving less. We’re a football club, not a corner shop. Financially successful literally means feck all to Amy football fan unless it’s transferred into football success. It’s like winning the singing at Hampden, meaningless.

It's a perfectly legitimate point to highlight. 

[Lone Striker]

44 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Not entirely sure what is extremely positive about spending more but achieving less. We’re a football club, not a corner shop. Financially successful literally means feck all to Amy football fan unless it’s transferred into football success. It’s like winning the singing at Hampden, meaningless.

Its football.  Happens all over the world.  Man U, Chelsea, Spurs etc ..... all spending more each season, but hardly moving the success-o-meter

 

Are you suggesting that we should start spending less simply because we achieved one league place lower than the year before ?

[XB52]

Every thread it's the same negative posters. 

[Unknown user]

On 16/11/2023 at 10:43, Under the floodlight said:

Get Michael O'Leary in, he could fit an Elephant into a phonebox.🤣

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

20 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Its football.  Happens all over the world.  Man U, Chelsea, Spurs etc ..... all spending more each season, but hardly moving the success-o-meter

 

Are you suggesting that we should start spending less simply because we achieved one league place lower than the year before ?

No, I think he’s suggesting that financial accounts are not in themselves the cause for a street party 

[Sooks]

33 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

No, I think he’s suggesting that financial accounts are not in themselves the cause for a street party 

 

Was there a plan to have a street party

[Japan Jambo]

5 hours ago, Bad Religion said:

 

£4M worth?

 

Who? 

 

FFS when she said just employ a fat Spanish waiter for the Skyline lounge she didn't mean Rafa Benitez...

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

No, I think he’s suggesting that financial accounts are not in themselves the cause for a street party 

Nor for a death watch!

[Jambof3tornado]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Nor for a death watch!

Nope but somewhere nicely inbetween. Simply means some will see positives and some the negatives. Par for the course with hearts and kickback.

[JimmyCant]

2 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Its football.  Happens all over the world.  Man U, Chelsea, Spurs etc ..... all spending more each season, but hardly moving the success-o-meter

 

Are you suggesting that we should start spending less simply because we achieved one league place lower than the year before ?

No I’m suggesting we spend wisely with the focus on spending on the core function of the business.

[Carter]

46 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Nope but somewhere nicely inbetween. Simply means some will see positives and some the negatives. Par for the course with hearts and kickback.

I think it would be fair to say that for the investment in January and summer 2022 last season was a huge disappointment.

[reaths17]

3 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Not entirely sure what is extremely positive about spending more but achieving less. We’re a football club, not a corner shop. Financially successful literally means feck all to Amy football fan unless it’s transferred into football success. It’s like winning the singing at Hampden, meaningless.

we get an anouncement of positive results financially and everybodys all over it trying to find a negative, if we had got a negative financial report everbody would be all over making the negative even more negative.

the injury situation is a large part in the struggle for better success which you cant financially prepare for so even on a playing front this is still positive news.

 

i really dont know how half the posters on here cope with the realities of their lives at times, with the constant whineing, how the **** do you manage to get out of bed in the mornings, how do you manage to do a job. what a miserable existance that must be.

 

"always look on the bright side of life, doot de doot de doot de doo"

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

No I’m suggesting we spend wisely with the focus on spending on the core function of the business.

.... which these accounts show we did.  Doubled our spend on new players (845k compared to 408k previous season).    Whether the players we spent that on are giving value for money in a playing sense is a completely different question obviously.

[Bazzas right boot]

16 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

No I’m suggesting we spend wisely with the focus on spending on the core function of the business.

 

Here was our board planning and doing the complete opposite.

 

They need to read this and align themselves pronto.

Sage advice.

 

 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Aberdeen accounts out and quite a distance behind us in terms of turnover 

[scott herbertson]

36 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Aberdeen accounts out and quite a distance behind us in terms of turnover 

 

I was interested in this too

 

However, the combined financial impact of finishing tenth in the League at the end of the 21/22 season and not qualifying to compete in Europe, whilst increasing investment in the playing squad, led to an operating loss of £6.27m, compared to £5.29m in the previous financial year. This operating loss was offset by £7.45m of gains from player sales to deliver a net profit for the 22/23 financial year of £1.1m reducing £14.8m of cumulative net losses, before player sales, by £11.4m to £3.4m over the last three seasons.

The accounts, for the 12 months from 1 July 2022, reveal that turnover increased by almost £2m, up 14% from £13.86m in 21/22 to £15.77m. This has been attributed to an increase in gate, sponsorship, commercial and broadcasting income, due in part to the Club finishing third in the Premiership and reaching the Scottish League Cup semi-final.

 

 

Their staff costs are just under £12m

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

4 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

I was interested in this too

 

However, the combined financial impact of finishing tenth in the League at the end of the 21/22 season and not qualifying to compete in Europe, whilst increasing investment in the playing squad, led to an operating loss of £6.27m, compared to £5.29m in the previous financial year. This operating loss was offset by £7.45m of gains from player sales to deliver a net profit for the 22/23 financial year of £1.1m reducing £14.8m of cumulative net losses, before player sales, by £11.4m to £3.4m over the last three seasons.

The accounts, for the 12 months from 1 July 2022, reveal that turnover increased by almost £2m, up 14% from £13.86m in 21/22 to £15.77m. This has been attributed to an increase in gate, sponsorship, commercial and broadcasting income, due in part to the Club finishing third in the Premiership and reaching the Scottish League Cup semi-final.

 

 

Their staff costs are just under £12m

The one thing they've got right we haven't is player sales 

[BlueRiver]

46 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Aberdeen accounts out and quite a distance behind us in terms of turnover 

 

Player sales wiping out a huge loss.

 

Fair enough to them for making those sales but they won't have a similar crop to rely on every year. 

[BlueRiver]

3 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

The one thing they've got right we haven't is player sales 

 

That's only if they can maintain it though. Scottish football can be a bit feast or famine when it comes to finding players to sell on for large numbers. 

 

You're right though it's something that would be nice to see us get right more frequently. 

[Zico]

Risky strategy relying on player sales every year to bail you out. Hope it goes tits up and their full kit banker chairman’s embarrassing himself crying like a bairn on tv again. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Zico

[Sooks]

57 minutes ago, Zico said:

Risky strategy relying on player sales every year to bail you out. Hope it goes tits up and their full kit banker chairman’s embarrassing himself crying like a bairn on tv again. 

Yip , cant argue that the gamble paid off though as they squeezed us out of third and made a similar amount without having to sell anyone for the next season . Still at least Neilson and Gnasher managed to improve their handicaps 

[Francis Albert]

20 hours ago, reaths17 said:

we get an anouncement of positive results financially and everybodys all over it trying to find a negative, if we had got a negative financial report everbody would be all over making the negative even more negative.

the injury situation is a large part in the struggle for better success which you cant financially prepare for so even on a playing front this is still positive news.

 

i really dont know how half the posters on here cope with the realities of their lives at times, with the constant whineing, how the **** do you manage to get out of bed in the mornings, how do you manage to do a job. what a miserable existance that must be.

 

"always look on the bright side of life, doot de doot de doot de doo"

Firstly some on here who know a lot more than me about interpreting accounts have disputed how positive the results really are despite the highly spun announcement accompanying them.

 

Secondly I do tire of the constant complaints about "negativity".

 

I first attended Tynecastle over 60 years ago. I can assure younger viewers that for the majority of these years those attending Tynecastle (surely the "real fans") were "negative" and for good reason. Even earlier there is a story of Willie Bald overhearing on the bus to TYnecastle  (yes the players travelled by bus in those days) a couple of fans moaning about the new player (Bauld) being too slow. 

 

My experience of grounds in London suggest Tynecastle and Hearts fans are not unusual.  It is not a JKB phenomenon but reflects the fact that most clubs most of the time are unsuccessful. 

 

(Apologies for moaning about the happy clapper brigade)

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Francis Albert

[scott herbertson]

50 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Firstly some on here who know a lot more than me about interpreting accounts have disputed how positive the results really are despite the highly spun announcement accompanying them.

 

Secondly I do tire of the constant complaints about "negativity".

 

I first attended Tynecastle over 60 years ago. I can assure younger viewers that for the majority of these years those attending Tynecastle (surely the "real fans") were "negative" and for good reason. Even earlier there is a story of Willie Bald overhearing on the bus to TYnecastle  (yes the players travelled by bus in those days) a couple of fans moaning about the new player (Bauld) being too slow. 

 

My experience of grounds in London suggest Tynecastle and Hearts fans are not unusual.  It is not a JKB phenomenon but reflects the fact that most clubs most of the time are unsuccessful. 

 

(Apologies for moaning about the happy clapper brigade)

 

 

 

so to be clear we’re a bunch of torn-faced moany depressives 

 

but it’s fine because so is everyone else 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Firstly some on here who know a lot more than me about interpreting accounts have disputed how positive the results really are despite the highly spun announcement accompanying them.

 

 

if you're a bit short of knowledge in interpreting accounts how have you concluded the announcement is highly spun?

[BlueRiver]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Firstly some on here who know a lot more than me about interpreting accounts have disputed how positive the results really are despite the highly spun announcement accompanying them.

 

Secondly I do tire of the constant complaints about "negativity".

 

I first attended Tynecastle over 60 years ago. I can assure younger viewers that for the majority of these years those attending Tynecastle (surely the "real fans") were "negative" and for good reason. Even earlier there is a story of Willie Bald overhearing on the bus to TYnecastle  (yes the players travelled by bus in those days) a couple of fans moaning about the new player (Bauld) being too slow. 

 

My experience of grounds in London suggest Tynecastle and Hearts fans are not unusual.  It is not a JKB phenomenon but reflects the fact that most clubs most of the time are unsuccessful. 

 

(Apologies for moaning about the happy clapper brigade)

 

 

 

It's draining though. Every thread on here turns into a whingefest and the four horsemen of the apocalypse are saddling up depending on what way the wind is blowing. 

 

It's not all roses and skips through the meadow but as financial management goes this is probably the best any of us have seen ever over the past few years. 

[Francis Albert]

18 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

if you're a bit short of knowledge in interpreting accounts how have you concluded the announcement is highly spun?

I am not THAT short of knowledge! I can recognise spin. In announcing  their results no company is objective. The press statement unlke the accounts themselves is not audited.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Francis Albert

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Firstly some on here who know a lot more than me about interpreting accounts have disputed how positive the results really are despite the highly spun announcement accompanying them.

 

Secondly I do tire of the constant complaints about "negativity".

 

I first attended Tynecastle over 60 years ago. I can assure younger viewers that for the majority of these years those attending Tynecastle (surely the "real fans") were "negative" and for good reason. Even earlier there is a story of Willie Bald overhearing on the bus to TYnecastle  (yes the players travelled by bus in those days) a couple of fans moaning about the new player (Bauld) being too slow. 

 

My experience of grounds in London suggest Tynecastle and Hearts fans are not unusual.  It is not a JKB phenomenon but reflects the fact that most clubs most of the time are unsuccessful. 

 

(Apologies for moaning about the happy clapper brigade)

 

 

I can't imagine you ever moaning. 😀

[Francis Albert]

44 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

so to be clear we’re a bunch of torn-faced moany depressives 

 

but it’s fine because so is everyone else 

Yep. Comes with the territory of supporting a football team. Unless you are one of those weirdos who "supports" say Barcelona remotely.

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I can't imagine you ever moaning. 😀

😀

 

Sorry hit the wrong emoji there!

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

I am not THAT short of knowledge! I can recognise spin. In announcing  their results no company is objective. The press statement unlke the accounts themselves is not audited.

I don't quite see how recognising spin in press statements relates to knowledge in interpreting accounts.  The facts and figures speak for themselves.  Never mind other companies'/clubs' press statements etc, can you say how the club has spun these results.

Edited November 18, 2023 by JamboAl

[Rods]

5 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

 

I was interested in this too

 

However, the combined financial impact of finishing tenth in the League at the end of the 21/22 season and not qualifying to compete in Europe, whilst increasing investment in the playing squad, led to an operating loss of £6.27m, compared to £5.29m in the previous financial year. This operating loss was offset by £7.45m of gains from player sales to deliver a net profit for the 22/23 financial year of £1.1m reducing £14.8m of cumulative net losses, before player sales, by £11.4m to £3.4m over the last three seasons.

The accounts, for the 12 months from 1 July 2022, reveal that turnover increased by almost £2m, up 14% from £13.86m in 21/22 to £15.77m. This has been attributed to an increase in gate, sponsorship, commercial and broadcasting income, due in part to the Club finishing third in the Premiership and reaching the Scottish League Cup semi-final.

 

 

Their staff costs are just under £12m

So even with players sales in the last three seasons they are still 3.4 mill down? 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Firstly some on here who know a lot more than me about interpreting accounts have disputed how positive the results really are despite the highly spun announcement accompanying them.

 

Secondly I do tire of the constant complaints about "negativity".

 

I first attended Tynecastle over 60 years ago. I can assure younger viewers that for the majority of these years those attending Tynecastle (surely the "real fans") were "negative" and for good reason. Even earlier there is a story of Willie Bald overhearing on the bus to TYnecastle  (yes the players travelled by bus in those days) a couple of fans moaning about the new player (Bauld) being too slow. 

 

My experience of grounds in London suggest Tynecastle and Hearts fans are not unusual.  It is not a JKB phenomenon but reflects the fact that most clubs most of the time are unsuccessful. 

 

(Apologies for moaning about the happy clapper brigade)

 

 

 

Moaning about posters that are moaning about the negativity?

 

Why not pull the usual suspects up for posting  their repetitive dirge (often nonsense) across multiple threads, rather than bemoaning  the more balanced and positive posters.

 

 

[soonbe110]

On 14/11/2023 at 22:25, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Cool, let's revisit when the sheep publish in that case.

Now that Aberdeens financials are out we can revisit your fictitious ‘budget advantage’. We were clearly at a ‘budget disadvantage’ in respect to Aberdeen last season and probably this current season as well. They have been and almost certainly are spending more money on playing staff than we are. Probably a considerable amount more though  there’s not enough detail to be 100% certain. Their total payroll costs last year were £12m for 155 employees, ours was £15m for nearly double the number of employees. 

[soonbe110]

On 17/11/2023 at 09:57, Footballfirst said:

A comparison of staff numbers and wages from the administration season to now.

 

 

Aberdeens footballing headcount numbers significantly smaller than ours which suggests ours are bloated, maybe unnecessarily.  We have circa 130 to their 80. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Now that Aberdeens financials are out we can revisit your fictitious ‘budget advantage’. We were clearly at a ‘budget disadvantage’ in respect to Aberdeen last season and probably this current season as well. They have been and almost certainly are spending more money on playing staff than we are. Probably a considerable amount more though  there’s not enough detail to be 100% certain. Their total payroll costs last year were £12m for 155 employees, ours was £15m for nearly double the number of employees. 

 

No one cares about context or reality. 

 

The goon squad have banged the 3rd biggest budget drum so we should be easily 3rd for a couple of years now.

This is their basis for everyone oot

 

 

They ignore any advantage clubs had over fum during demotion and the fact we had to close that gap and they generally ignore all logic and reality. Often citing " O font varese about other clubs when challenged ".

They also scream we should be beating diddy clubs as we have more budget, then demand we compete with the OF.

 

Same posters all the time.

 

Any positive news turns to shite very quickly.

 

 

[Sooks]

See if you really want to find something to moan about , you can do it with virtually anything . You need to want to find something though . **** knows why that gives someone their cheapies but there you are 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Sooks

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

33 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Now that Aberdeens financials are out we can revisit your fictitious ‘budget advantage’. We were clearly at a ‘budget disadvantage’ in respect to Aberdeen last season and probably this current season as well. They have been and almost certainly are spending more money on playing staff than we are. Probably a considerable amount more though  there’s not enough detail to be 100% certain. Their total payroll costs last year were £12m for 155 employees, ours was £15m for nearly double the number of employees. 

I'd be very confident to say our playing budget is far bigger than Aberdeen ! Well have far more hospitality staff etc than Aberdeen 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Aberdeens footballing headcount numbers significantly smaller than ours which suggests ours are bloated, maybe unnecessarily.  We have circa 130 to their 80. 

I tend to agree, although Hearts maintain a B Team which Aberdeen don't.  I'm also unsure about how many of Aberdeen's ladies team have professional contracts.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Footballfirst

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I don't quite see how recognising spin in press statements relates to knowledge in interpreting accounts.  The facts and figures speak for themselves.  Never mind other companies'/clubs' press statements etc, can you say how the club has spun these results.

My post was about spin in the press statement. From.a footballing or indeed financial  angle nothing happened in the accounting year more significant than us blowing what seemed an un unnasailable lead for third which will cost us badly in this financial year.

 But mo mention .

 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

I'd be very confident to say our playing budget is far bigger than Aberdeen ! Well have far more hospitality staff etc than Aberdeen 

I agree it’s bigger. Problem is we have circa twice as many full time players as they do so I’d suggest we will be paying less on individual salary/wages despite spending more in total 

[soonbe110]

58 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I tend to agree, although Hearts maintain a B Team which Aberdeen don't.  I'm also unsure about how many of Aberdeen's ladies team have professional contracts.

Not many I suspect.  Without a bit more detail it’s hard to work out definitively but I’d hazard a guess that Aberdeen are paying their men’s first team higher wages in comparison to us.  We are spreading £15m over twice as many employees as they are spreading £12m.  

[soonbe110]

9 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Aberdeen accounts out and quite a distance behind us in terms of turnover 

Turnover largely meaningless. In the year to June 23 Aberdeens total spend (on everything) was £22m. Ours was £25m. If you back all the non football stuff out of ours ie community stuff, hotel, restaurant, etc together with the extra we spent on uefa compliance and prep, travel etc their like for like spend was probably same as ours or higher. We certainly didn’t have a significantly bigger football budget than they had. This yea’s spending is going to be interesting - they have uefa to compensate for poorer player trading income (January window notwithstanding) , we don’t have the uefa expense but neither do we have the income. It’s nip and tuck imo. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

No one cares about context or reality. 

 

The goon squad have banged the 3rd biggest budget drum so we should be easily 3rd for a couple of years now.

This is their basis for everyone oot

 

 

They ignore any advantage clubs had over fum during demotion and the fact we had to close that gap and they generally ignore all logic and reality. Often citing " O font varese about other clubs when challenged ".

They also scream we should be beating diddy clubs as we have more budget, then demand we compete with the OF.

 

Same posters all the time.

 

Any positive news turns to shite very quickly.

 

 

It’s common sense really though easy for folk to get carried away when stories about  making £5/6m from one season in Europe get bandied about. Not sure many have realised just how good a job Aberdeen have done on player trading. It’s quite remarkable really esp when they managed to finish third last season.