Give Naismith time, what he is trying to achieve, our identity

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, Led Tasso said:

Yeah, and they hardly have a glory-drenched manager recruitment record either.

 

I posted this in the other thread, but imagine being a Fleetwood Town fan with this manager history.

 

They were probably too scared to sack Barton earlier. 

[stirlo]

31 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Lee Johnson was an experienced manager. Stephen Glass was an experienced manager. Craig Levein is an experienced manager.

 

Daniel Stendel was too, for that matter.

 

Barcelona promoted Pep from their B team directly to their first team. I'm not saying Naisy was Pep but neither are we Barca.

 

As stated above I'm very much on the fence about Naisy at this point. I want to give him time but he's got to put together a run of games where we play with verve and get results.

 

This is a sensible post and pretty much where I stand. I'm just not convinced that most managers would do a better job with the current set of players. They're a mediocre set of players, who put in mediocre performances and get mediocre results. That's the long and short of it.

[Nelly Terraces]

4 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Here’s our identity under Naismith:

 

 

4 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

Says it all really….

Certainly does. We are a good cure for insomnia.

[jock _turd]

1 hour ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Lee Johnson was an experienced manager. Stephen Glass was an experienced manager. Craig Levein is an experienced manager.

 

Daniel Stendel was too, for that matter.

 

Barcelona promoted Pep from their B team directly to their first team. I'm not saying Naisy was Pep but neither are we Barca.

 

As stated above I'm very much on the fence about Naisy at this point. I want to give him time but he's got to put together a run of games where we play with verve and get results.

 

That is not a problem he will get that time the board will see to that. What is a problem is that the team are playing a poorer game than we had under RN. I know it sounds hard to believe for most on here but we were handed a dream run of fixtured  to open the first round of games and we have blown that completely. That said SN could redeem himself if he does a good job of the next tougher run of 9 fixtures if he wins say five of the games not involving the OF he will have done a decent job?

[liam11]

What is the identity? Because I genuinely don’t see it.

 

We’re slow and negative in possession. We rarely line the opponent up 1v1 and run at them. We don’t press aggressively or cohesively. We constantly shy away from the quick ball in behind. We bring all 11 men back to defend set pieces and leave nothing for the opposition to think about.

 

Our identity is being f****** amateurs.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

18 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

That is not a problem he will get that time the board will see to that. What is a problem is that the team are playing a poorer game than we had under RN. I know it sounds hard to believe for most on here but we were handed a dream run of fixtured  to open the first round of games and we have blown that completely. That said SN could redeem himself if he does a good job of the next tougher run of 9 fixtures if he wins say five of the games not involving the OF he will have done a decent job?

 

It's funny to me that Naismith was supposed to give attacking, fearless football after supposedly defensive-minded Neilson. Under Neilson last season we scored lots of goals but leaked even more. This season we've finally gotten stodgy at the back but we're as goal shy as we've ever been.

 

We've got the personnel to play a back 3 again but Naisy had them bunched tightly at Hampden instead of spreading out and it's just asking to be crossed.

[jambogaza]

If rumours are true regarding the dressing room, he could be gone very soon.

[OTT]

1 minute ago, jambogaza said:

If rumours are true regarding the dressing room, he could be gone very soon.

 

Swear there was a post on here about Boyce chapping his door about not playing - to then start against Livi and then do **** all  

 

Agree though - once this sort of stuff starts leaking, its a matter of time. 

 

The post that got deleted seemed to lean towards poor coaching and a lack of tactical instruction. 

 

Basically things you expect from a rookie coach that doesn't know what he's doing. 

[soonbe110]

14 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

If rumours are true regarding the dressing room, he could be gone very soon.

Before the next match in all probability. 

[boag1874]

2 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Lee Johnson was an experienced manager. Stephen Glass was an experienced manager. Craig Levein is an experienced manager.

 

Daniel Stendel was too, for that matter.

 

Barcelona promoted Pep from their B team directly to their first team. I'm not saying Naisy was Pep but neither are we Barca.

 

As stated above I'm very much on the fence about Naisy at this point. I want to give him time but he's got to put together a run of games where we play with verve and get results.

Last paragraph sums it up for me, he really really needs to get a string of results in the next few games. Do that & he can see out the calendar year before we regroup, fail & we need to cut our losses. Hopefully there’s a replacement in mind & we don’t end up pissing about waiting for weeks again

[1971fozzy]

2 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Lee Johnson was an experienced manager. Stephen Glass was an experienced manager. Craig Levein is an experienced manager.

 

Daniel Stendel was too, for that matter.

 

Barcelona promoted Pep from their B team directly to their first team. I'm not saying Naisy was Pep but neither are we Barca.

 

As stated above I'm very much on the fence about Naisy at this point. I want to give him time but he's got to put together a run of games where we play with verve and get results.

good post. I’m as disillusioned as anybody but for me he gets until the winter break. Get Gordon and Halkett back and that’s pivotal. And then there’s Mackay too.

Im not impressed but let’s see where we are after Livingston away on 2nd Jan

[Jambo92]

Said it yesterday, nothing changes if Naismith goes, only buys the McKinley and Savage a reprieve to try and find someone.

 

If the screenshot about players being upset is true then it doesn't paint them in good light, as from the little instructions he's supposedly given them, they fail to do.

 

Think I counted 3 first touch passes against Livi last week, slow laboured negative footballers who made silly errors under very little pressure on a weekly basis.  In any normal profession they would be sacked on the spot.

[Luckies1874]

22 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

If rumours are true regarding the dressing room, he could be gone very soon.

 

 

 

 

I'm curious which players in the current squad have "an axe to grind"? Who has not been given a chance? Who could genuinely feel aggrieved? 

 

I want the entire setup dismantled asap but I'm fascinated to know who is unhappy with their lot given general performances and not just during Naismith's 25 competitive matches either. 

[August Landmesser]

7 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

 

 

I'm curious which players in the current squad have "an axe to grind"? Who has not been given a chance? Who could genuinely feel aggrieved? 

 

I want the entire setup dismantled asap but I'm fascinated to know who is unhappy with their lot given general performances and not just during Naismith's 25 competitive matches either. 

Very few of them could feel genuinely aggrieved, but that doesn't mean there aren't a few who have an axe to grind. Off the top of my head, players not getting a start or many minutes just now would be Halliday, Haring, Boyce, and Grant

 

I'm not itk and not for a second suggesting that these guys are grumbling, just pointing out that these are three experienced players who've barely played this season 

Edited November 6, 2023 by August Landmesser

[OTT]

50 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

Very few of them could feel genuinely aggrieved, but that doesn't mean there aren't a few who have an axe to grind. Off the top of my head, players not getting a start or many minutes just now would be Halliday, Haring, Boyce, and Grant

 

I'm not itk and not for a second suggesting that these guys are grumbling, just pointing out that these are three experienced players who've barely played this season 

 

Grant doesn't strike me as the type. 

 

I'd be looking at senior players not playing. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by OTT

[Luckies1874]

7 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Grant doesn't strike me as the type. 

 

I'd be looking at senior players not playing. 

 

 

Or a senior player who never got a move perhaps  

[1874robbo]

12 hours ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

I've read multiple posters, on multiple threads criticising other hearts fans for expecting us to beat rangers yesterday (or anytime really). That is total conjecture. Not a single hearts fan expected us to beat them yesterday and that includes the 15,000 fans at Hampden. You can include the team and the manager in that as well, to be honest.

 

Everyone knows about the gulf in budget. Everyone knows about how these fixtures historically play out. All any hearts fan was asking for was to go down with a smidgen of fight. Make it difficult for them ffs. If you let a better team play to their strengths they will annihilate you 100 times out of 100. 

 

This thread was originally started to talk about Naismith's managerial "identity". So let's talk about it. 

 

Yesterday we barely stopped a single cross coming into the box from either side, we allowed Tavenier and Barasic, two of the best crossers in the league, 5/10 yards of space every single time out wide. Not only that, but they normally had a man overload for support and were able to play simple football around us with ease. It was like they had an extra man the entire game, our work ethic is awful and the narrow, zonal defending simply doesn't work. You can blame individual errors all you want, but when you play this way you invite opportunities for these errors to occur in dangerous areas. Sometimes you do need to just hold your hands up and accept you were outpalyed by better, more expensive players but the very least you can do to mitigate the gap in quality is get in their faces, put them under pressure, force them into quicker decisions and make them uncomfortable. We did the complete opposite of this. We allowed them to execute their gameplan with little resistance. 

 

When we had the ball at goalkicks we hoofed it to sibbick and continued to do so most of the game, despite him not winning a single header. 

 

We attempted long throw ins near their box despite not really having a long-throw specialist, most of them landed near the front post where there was one hearts player and multiple rangers players, we then had no one sitting at the edge of the box to pick up the second balls and rangers inevitably counter attacked and we were straight on the backfoot AGAIN. 

 

At 2-0 down in a semi-final, we had every man defending in our box at corners and freekicks. No outlet ball. And once again usuing a zonal marking system which led to us not defending the set piece all that comfortably. 

 

Multiple times in the game Butland was able to roll the ball to a Rangers CM who then proceeded to run 30/40 yards unchallenged straight up the middle of the pitch. Nothing to do with them being worth multiple millions of pounds, just sheer negligence, lack of awareness and effort. 

 

The blame is eqaully on the players and the manager, a proffessional footballer should be able to realise when something isn't working and use some initiative to try something new but I am afraid we have assembled a team of frighteningly one-dimensional players, many of whom are incapable of thinking for themselves and adapting as the game goes on. As for our "identity", well it is certainly not the fast paced, attacking, fearless football we were promised.

 

I will reiterate again, because many on here seem to somehow believe otherwise. No hearts fan expects to beat the old firm. No hearts fan expects to make every game against them hard. The reality is if they are on their game, they win. For the love of **** though, could we maybe once in a while, especially at home and in finals, put a few dents in their armour? Show that we aren't just here to take part and roll over and have our bellies tickled. I, and many others that walked out after the second and third goals are sick of it, we support this team impeccably and are given little in return to be proud of. Right now the identity of this team is cowardly, inglorious and apathetic, and I really am struggling to see how Naismith turns it round. 

Excellent post 

[Aussie Jambo]

On 06/11/2023 at 21:36, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

You're at it 😂

Is the bar that low to become a Hearts legend nowadays?

Yes

[Arthur Morgan]

Naismith a Hearts legend? WTAF? 🤣

[GinRummy]

19 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

Or a senior player who never got a move perhaps  

Maybe someone that wanted to stay and fight for their place but was never given the opportunity. 

[bean counter]

 

People wanted Alex Neil others not because they don't like Savage

 

 

 

His record at Stoke after 11 games

 

Played   Won   Drawn   Lost

11            3        1            7

 

Currently after 15 Games

 

Played   Won   Drawn   Lost

15            6        2            7

 

 

Our record after 11 games

 

Played   Won   Drawn   Lost

11            4        2            5

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by bean counter
spelling

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, bean counter said:

 

People wanted Alex Neil others not because they don't like Savage

 

 

 

His record at Stoke after 11 games

 

Played   Won   Drawn   Lost

11            3        1            7

 

Currently after 15 Games

 

Played   Won   Drawn   Lost

11            6        2            7

 

 

Our record after 11 games

 

Played   Won   Drawn   Lost

11            4        2            5

 

 

 

 

Our league is Mickey Mouse compared to the Championship.

 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

43 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Maybe someone that wanted to stay and fight for their place but was never given the opportunity. 

 

Wasn't 'snoddy' a guest on a podcast or something the other night?

 

Never heard anymore about it

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Wasn't 'snoddy' a guest on a podcast or something the other night?

 

Never heard anymore about it

Think it was a radio thing. Not him anyway. 👍

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Think it was a radio thing. Not him anyway. 👍

👍

[pettigrewsstylist]

On 06/11/2023 at 22:14, liam11 said:

What is the identity? Because I genuinely don’t see it.

 

We’re slow and negative in possession. We rarely line the opponent up 1v1 and run at them. We don’t press aggressively or cohesively. We constantly shy away from the quick ball in behind. We bring all 11 men back to defend set pieces and leave nothing for the opposition to think about.

 

Our identity is being f****** amateurs.

Good summary, throw in the guaranteed calamity goal gift in 90% of games.

[TallPaul]

3 hours ago, Arthur Morgan said:

Naismith a Hearts legend? WTAF? 🤣

Out board are legends to him. Money he's drained from club will be something else 

[gorgierulesapply88]

 

I mean just be a good coach? Will Still doing well with Reims, Carrick had Middlesborough flying.

 

Can Naismith be a good coach? Yes, truly believe when Gordon returns we'll be fine. Halkett played in a game today amongst the Hearts team. He's 2-3 weeks away.

[Bazzas right boot]

On 06/11/2023 at 20:20, Led Tasso said:

 

Lee Johnson was an experienced manager. Stephen Glass was an experienced manager. Craig Levein is an experienced manager.

 

Daniel Stendel was too, for that matter.

 

Barcelona promoted Pep from their B team directly to their first team. I'm not saying Naisy was Pep but neither are we Barca.

 

As stated above I'm very much on the fence about Naisy at this point. I want to give him time but he's got to put together a run of games where we play with verve and get results.

 

Aterta, Gerrard,  Zidane,  Mourhino at Benfica, Bob....

Lots of managers got big first gigs, lots of experienced managers have also been shit.

 

 

[Agentjambo]

10 hours ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

 

I mean just be a good coach? Will Still doing well with Reims, Carrick had Middlesborough flying.

 

Can Naismith be a good coach? Yes, truly believe when Gordon returns we'll be fine. Halkett played in a game today amongst the Hearts team. He's 2-3 weeks away.

So when our keeper returns he will automatically change from a poor coach to a good coach…hmmm.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

I'll be really annoyed if Halkett doesn't do a Terminator comeback video, like McLeish did

 

[Arthur Morgan]

18 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Mourinho at Porto

 

FTFY 👍🏻

[gorgierulesapply88]

9 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

So when our keeper returns he will automatically change from a poor coach to a good coach…hmmm.

Craig Gordon won hearts the league. Crazy I know. 

[soonbe110]

On 06/11/2023 at 23:21, August Landmesser said:

Very few of them could feel genuinely aggrieved, but that doesn't mean there aren't a few who have an axe to grind. Off the top of my head, players not getting a start or many minutes just now would be Halliday, Haring, Boyce, and Grant

 

I'm not itk and not for a second suggesting that these guys are grumbling, just pointing out that these are three experienced players who've barely played this season 

Add Shankland and Devlin to that list. 

[mitch41]

On 07/11/2023 at 20:05, The Real Maroonblood said:

Our league is Mickey Mouse compared to the Championship.

 

Micky Mouse is the wrong terminology. All they have is more TV money which is a joke. 

[By The Light..]

On 06/11/2023 at 23:11, 1971fozzy said:

good post. I’m as disillusioned as anybody but for me he gets until the winter break. Get Gordon and Halkett back and that’s pivotal. And then there’s Mackay too.

Im not impressed but let’s see where we are after Livingston away on 2nd Jan

 

Gordon coming back but he might be finished, hope not though, we won't know until he's had a few games and December looks v/tough.

 

Halkett could come back and sit down holding his leg within 30 mins and never be seen again.

 

Disillusioned. 100% with you absolutely

Edited November 8, 2023 by By The Light..
speeling

[Bongo 1874]

Give him time 👍.

[spirt of 98]

I am firmly in the let SN build his team camp now. I want us to give him the next two years to build. His rocky start is starting to fade away. However he’s a few bad results for the boo boys coming back as always. Suppose he will just have to go prove them wrong. 

[feej]

1 minute ago, spirt of 98 said:

I am firmly in the let SN build his team camp now. I want us to give him the next two years to build. His rocky start is starting to fade away. However he’s a few bad results for the boo boys coming back as always. Suppose he will just have to go prove them wrong. 

I'm happy we're getting more consistency, he could do with a couple of decent midfielders to push us on and cement third.

[spirt of 98]

7 minutes ago, feej said:

I'm happy we're getting more consistency, he could do with a couple of decent midfielders to push us on and cement third.

I think he took a while to find a team that can win. Dropping Sibbick and Haring etc has really helped. Lots of individual mistakes cost us early on.

 

For me it’s wingers and a right back.

 

Id also sign Van Veen on a 2 year deal just to give us more goals. Imagine tight games bring on Van Veen last 20 mins up top with shanks. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by spirt of 98

[feej]

Just now, spirt of 98 said:

I think he took a while to find a team that can win. Dropping Sibbick and Haring etc has really helped. Lots of individual mistakes cost us early on.

 

For me it’s wingers and a right back.

 

Id also sign Van Veen on a 2 year deal just to give us more goals. Imagine right games bring on Van Veen last 20 mins up too with shanks. 

We need to upgrade the wingers and solid right back as well.

Shanks would score a barrel load if we had wingers getting balls into the box.

[Jam-Tart]

Can see similarities to what Clarke has done with Scotland 🤷‍♂️, I wasn't a believer, but changing my mind on Naismith ever so quickly.

[Bongo 1874]

Hasn't fully got his message over yet,work in progress.

 

But I liked the coaches presentation and confirmed what I thought.

 

Good recruitment now will see us secure third at a canter.

[Sooks]

16 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Hasn't fully got his message over yet,work in progress.

 

But I liked the coaches presentation and confirmed what I thought.

 

Good recruitment now will see us secure third at a canter.

Fair play to you for keeping the faith because after our shite start to the season I had very little faith in him . That has changed and I was wrong ( hopefully ) 

[Fozzyonthefence]

17 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Hasn't fully got his message over yet,work in progress.

 

But I liked the coaches presentation and confirmed what I thought.

 

Good recruitment now will see us secure third at a canter.

No he hasn’t and it’s obvious that’s the case when you listen to him.   Yet you listen to some on here and just because we’re 3rd in the league they think everything is rosey and they lose their shit at the slightest criticism when it’s clear as day even the manager is getting frustrated at the players not doing what they’re told.  

[Gorgierools]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

No he hasn’t and it’s obvious that’s the case when you listen to him.   Yet you listen to some on here and just because we’re 3rd in the league they think everything is rosey and they lose their shit at the slightest criticism when it’s clear as day even the manager is getting frustrated at the players not doing what they’re told.  

I think this may be behind Cammy getting less game time,even before his current injury.

[RustyRightPeg]

33 minutes ago, Gorgierools said:

I think this may be behind Cammy getting less game time,even before his current injury.

 

Probably.

 

You see Hoff getting a lot of game time, and Naismith singing his praises at the Coaches seminar the other evening. It's obvious Hoff is a grafter, listens, probably asks questions & Naismith appears to have taken to him. Have his performances been top notch? No, but personally I can see something there. It's just a matter of time before it all clicks for certain players IMO.

[Dazo]

43 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

No he hasn’t and it’s obvious that’s the case when you listen to him.   Yet you listen to some on here and just because we’re 3rd in the league they think everything is rosey and they lose their shit at the slightest criticism when it’s clear as day even the manager is getting frustrated at the players not doing what they’re told.  

Making stuff up makes a mockery of any point you’re trying to make.  I doubt anyone as said everything is rosey or they are losing their shit over the slightest criticism. Unless you have examples of course ? 
 

Some people quite rightly imo defend the club they support against utter shite or unwarranted criticism that gets posted. 3rd is our target, acknowledging that with praise doesn’t mean you think everything is rosey. Plenty room for improvement but ffs some poster could take minute to acknowledge the good things and improvements being made. 

[No Idle Talk]

If Steven Naismith is still in the dugout twelve months from now, I suspect the Hearts team we will be watching then will bear little resemblance to the current iteration. 

 

It is clear that coming into the job he wanted to play with a back four. He compromised on this when things were not going well and it likely saved his job. Results picked up once we switched to a back three. We all have our ideals though and it's probably reasonable to assume that playing with a back four is where he wants to go with things in the long run. 

 

That could have all sorts of implications for what we do in the summer. It means a right back will have to be signed. It could mean Kye Rowles leaving(has never looked convincing in a back four for us). It will mean changes in midfield. 

 

I don't think this low scoring, stingey at the back, version of Hearts is Steven Naismith's vision for us. It certainly doesn't tie in with what he said when he first got the job. It is proving effective however and it has bought him time. Time was a luxury he appeared to be fast running out of at one point. 

 

It'll be interesting to see where things go from here. 

 

 

Edited January 19 by No Idle Talk

[Fozzyonthefence]

9 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Making stuff up makes a mockery of any point you’re trying to make.  I doubt anyone as said everything is rosey or they are losing their shit over the slightest criticism. Unless you have examples of course ? 
 

Some people quite rightly imo defend the club they support against utter shite or unwarranted criticism that gets posted. 3rd is our target, acknowledging that with praise doesn’t mean you think everything is rosey. Plenty room for improvement but ffs some poster could take minute to acknowledge the good things and improvements being made. 

Not making anything up, it’s all over pretty much every thread (it’s against forum rules to refer to posters not in a specific thread by the way so no I won’t quote you examples as you’re probably the type who would report me but feel free to read over them).  Plenty delicate little flowers who post tens of thousands of posts and can’t stand the slightest bit of even warranted criticism, so I’m not believing you don’t know who they are.  You just seem to enjoy coming on here looking for an argument!  Enjoy your weekend, I can’t be arsed. 

 

I’m firmly behind Naismith by the way and was sticking up for him when all the idiots wanted him sacked before you start accusing me otherwise.