Give Naismith time, what he is trying to achieve, our identity

[fila]

I think he has a vision of how he would like to play this fast attacking system  , just hasn't been able to transfer that vision to the players or supporters ( or has the skills) 

[Bender]

3 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Naismith is a rookie coach.

Which is why he should be nowhere near the Hearts job. Whatever totally pointless stat you want to use to try and convince us otherwise. 
 

Your OP is like a biography of Jade Goody. No-one’s buying it. 

[Skippy Doodle]

6 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

See above ^

So I would argue he has been backed within our current financial constraints and our wage budget will still match our direct rivals 

 

although we have not spent the same as Hibs and Aberdeen we will have paid six figures for Kent, Hoff, Tagawa and a potential fee for Vargas down the line

 

as for the staff, none of us know if any request was made by Naismith to have his own men so that seems a moot point until someone can clarify 

 

I feel for Naismith as a lot of my frustration towards his appointment is down to its clashing with the bullish comments being made by our CEO & sporting director earlier this year

 

He has quickly improved us out of posession but the big concern is dealing with the ball against a low block. Until he fixes this, it is not harsh to suggest we could finish bottom 6 this season

[OmiyaHearts]

There's not many signs he's doing a good job. Lineups often wrong, subs questionable, players put in wrong positions and not playing for him.

They don't seem to enjoy being on the pitch and results are poor as well as a lot of individual performances.

 

It's too big a job for him. The fixtures until the end of the year aren't looking too good for us or him. Rangers x3, Celtic x2 as well as Motherwell, Hibs & Aberdeen away.

 

I'd be amazed if he's here come Jan transfer window.

[Sooks]

Car crash . @Bongo 1874 you were telling anyone who would listen that Naismith was going to tear this league up and have us challenging for the title . How has he not been backed ? He has signed Tagawa , Vargas , Hoff , Kent and McGovern and he has overall the best squad outside of the old firm anyway . It is okay just to admit you were wrong you know , it happens . You were wrong about Naismith and you were and are wrong about Stendel 

[Nookie Bear]

14 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Stendel is sitting joint top of the league on points.

 

Sorry but have you played for Hearts or has Andy Irving,Anthony Mcdonald,Naismith, Washington, Clare,Bozanic.

 

I'll take there judgement and info over you everyday of the week.

 

He is managing the reserve team of a 2nd tier club. With all due respect that is diddy and about as useful a barometer as thinking we should respect John McGlynn for having Falkirk top of League One.

[GorgieFifeLife]

3 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

There's not many signs he's doing a good job. Lineups often wrong, subs questionable, players put in wrong positions and not playing for him.

They don't seem to enjoy being on the pitch and results are poor as well as a lot of individual performances.

 

It's too big a job for him. The fixtures until the end of the year aren't looking too good for us or him. Rangers x3, Celtic x2 as well as Motherwell, Hibs & Aberdeen away.

 

I'd be amazed if he's here come Jan transfer window.

Prepare to be amazed I’m afraid.  Not the correct appointment but I think he will be backed by the board for at least this season.  It’s crazy that once again we look like we will need to rip it up and start again.   We will have a fight on to ensure top 6 but if we don’t finish at least 4th we will be looking for a new manager in the summer.

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, GorgieFifeLife said:

Prepare to be amazed I’m afraid.  Not the correct appointment but I think he will be backed by the board for at least this season.  It’s crazy that once again we look like we will need to rip it up and start again.   We will have a fight on to ensure top 6 but if we don’t finish at least 4th we will be looking for a new manager in the summer.

Your manager has done nothing to impress so far

 

As for Naismith he may come good but I do not really see it . Hope so but I heavily suspect he is out of his depth and should have started at a smaller club

 

No ripping up and starting again required if he does fail though . We have a very good squad and an experienced manager would get a lot more out of them 

[OTT]

3 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

There's not many signs he's doing a good job. Lineups often wrong, subs questionable, players put in wrong positions and not playing for him.

They don't seem to enjoy being on the pitch and results are poor as well as a lot of individual performances.

 

It's too big a job for him. The fixtures until the end of the year aren't looking too good for us or him. Rangers x3, Celtic x2 as well as Motherwell, Hibs & Aberdeen away.

 

I'd be amazed if he's here come Jan transfer window.

 

Absolutely not out to get Naismith but fundemental belief is exactly that - job is too big for him, and he's not got the experience to cope with it. 

 

I think genuinely, we are seeing some of his ideas - Bongo's grabbed a fair few stats in his OP. But football is more than stats, and its very result driven. 

 

I feel like he's put Lowry on too much of a pedestal in awarding him minutes that quite frankly he hasn't earned. He's thrown away very winnable points, and make absolutely no mistake, we needed to be picking those points up whilst Aberdeen are distracted with Europe. We needed to be quietly building a lead in 3rd and haven't done so - we've actually choked on both occasions under him where a win would have taken us 3rd. 

 

FWIW I think we're stuck with him unless things begin to go badly wrong. I think the board are comfortable with mediocre results. If we're 4th he'll keep his job with very little realisation that is regression. 

 

For me, a Hearts manager needs to finish 3rd and win derbies. 

 

If they can't do that, then they're about as much use as a chocolate watch in the desert. 

 

We'll see how he does over the next few games, but I'm expecting a few rough results against the OF.  

[pettigrewsstylist]

51 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Absolutely not out to get Naismith but fundemental belief is exactly that - job is too big for him, and he's not got the experience to cope with it. 

 

I think genuinely, we are seeing some of his ideas - Bongo's grabbed a fair few stats in his OP. But football is more than stats, and its very result driven. 

 

I feel like he's put Lowry on too much of a pedestal in awarding him minutes that quite frankly he hasn't earned. He's thrown away very winnable points, and make absolutely no mistake, we needed to be picking those points up whilst Aberdeen are distracted with Europe. We needed to be quietly building a lead in 3rd and haven't done so - we've actually choked on both occasions under him where a win would have taken us 3rd. 

 

FWIW I think we're stuck with him unless things begin to go badly wrong. I think the board are comfortable with mediocre results. If we're 4th he'll keep his job with very little realisation that is regression. 

 

For me, a Hearts manager needs to finish 3rd and win derbies. 

 

If they can't do that, then they're about as much use as a chocolate watch in the desert. 

 

We'll see how he does over the next few games, but I'm expecting a few rough results against the OF.  

Our defence is a major concern anytime its properly challenged. Not looking forward to next few weeks tbh.

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

He's put Lowry on too much of a pedestal in awarding him minutes that quite frankly he hasn't earned.  He dropped Lowry for 3 or 4 games before bringing him back to start  the Hibs game

A Hearts manager needs to finish 3rd and win derbies.  Agree about needing to win  a lot more derbies than we lose.  See below for 3rd/4th place trends though.

 I'm expecting a few rough results against the OF.   Much like Hearts under Robbie, Levein and JJ then 

 

A general downward trend in points gathered by the 3rd and 4th place teams, and an increasing points threshold for 10th place, which tends to suggest that the middle 7 or 8 teams in the league are becoming more competitive amongst themselves while the OF pull further away.  So using 3rd as a minimum acceptable performance is becoming harder to achieve unless we move up a gear or two.  

 

Season 2017/18 -    3rd place=70 pts    4th place=67pts        10th place= 33

Season 2018/19 -    3rd place=67 pts   4th place=67pts         10th place=33

Season 2020/21 -    3rd place=63 pts   4th place=56pts        10th place=39

Season 2021/22 -    3rd place=61 pts    4th place=48pts      10th place= 41  

Season 2022/23 -   3rd place=57 pts    4th place=54pts      10th place= 40

Edited October 18, 2023 by Lone Striker

[Bongo 1874]

17 hours ago, Bender said:

Which is why he should be nowhere near the Hearts job. Whatever totally pointless stat you want to use to try and convince us otherwise. 
 

Your OP is like a biography of Jade Goody. No-one’s buying it. 

He's in the Hearts job due to certain circumstances,i can't believe I'm having to spell this out. Men and women lie,stats down lie.

Let's not speak of the dead.

I have seen improvement i believe in the playing style he is trying to implement.

I believe he needs backed with new coaching staff and a DOF that matches our ambitions as a club.

13 hours ago, Skippy Doodle said:

So I would argue he has been backed within our current financial constraints and our wage budget will still match our direct rivals 

 

although we have not spent the same as Hibs and Aberdeen we will have paid six figures for Kent, Hoff, Tagawa and a potential fee for Vargas down the line

 

as for the staff, none of us know if any request was made by Naismith to have his own men so that seems a moot point until someone can clarify 

 

I feel for Naismith as a lot of my frustration towards his appointment is down to its clashing with the bullish comments being made by our CEO & sporting director earlier this year

 

He has quickly improved us out of posession but the big concern is dealing with the ball against a low block. Until he fixes this, it is not harsh to suggest we could finish bottom 6 this season

If we never had so many players out injured,we wouldn't of signed that many players we needed numbers.

 

And we are still light in key positions in the team.

 

As for out of possession maybe he should drop Shankland and give Vargas a go through the middle.

 

He's more aggressive pressing from front, or Tagawa?, Oda could also be an option.

 

Mackenzie Kirk and James Wilson knocking on the door ?

 

Positions we are light? We need a proper central midfielder to come and take control, a leader.

 

Being Greedy a pressing forward that will give no defence a second to think.

 

Being Greedy again, Mckay is the missing piece so far.

 

I would like to have the option of atleast another two who can come on outwide.

 

After Mckay,Oda,Forrest,Vargas?

 

Have given there all for 60/70 mins and run teams ragged.

 

If we are playing high intensity football and the stats suggest we are.

 

Then players will be fecked after 60 mins.

 

You seen that with Ange at Celtic, Gerrard at Rangers.

 

They have options to go and bring on to freshen it up.

 

Well aware we are on a smaller scale I'm terms of wages etc what we can offer.

 

But how do we increase that ?

 

We can try and do it from player sales but the scouting has to be spot on.

 

I think we need a new coaching staff to help Naismith, and a new DOF to achieve this.

 

9 hours ago, Sooks said:

Car crash . @Bongo 1874 you were telling anyone who would listen that Naismith was going to tear this league up and have us challenging for the title . How has he not been backed ? He has signed Tagawa , Vargas , Hoff , Kent and McGovern and he has overall the best squad outside of the old firm anyway . It is okay just to admit you were wrong you know , it happens . You were wrong about Naismith and you were and are wrong about Stendel 

Yes I did get carried away i can admit that, again he hasn't been backed in terms of coaching staff, he's with the old regime.

 

He hasn't had the luxury of spending 1.5 mil on a player like Aberdeen or 900k like Hibs both outspent us in transfer market.

 

I'm not wrong on Naismith,he's got us in a League Cup semi final knocking out the team away from home,that knocked out the holders?

 

I got carried away thinking we would challenge for the league that i admit.

 

Given time I believe we can.

 

With the right style of play.

And I'm backing Naismith. 

 

I believe we need change in coaching staff and DOF.

 

You will see a different team once we have Gordon,Halkett, Mckay back.

 

 

[Bender]

2 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

He's in the Hearts job due to certain circumstances,i can't believe I'm having to spell this out. Men and women lie,stats down lie.

Let's not speak of the dead.

I have seen improvement i believe in the playing style he is trying to implement.

I believe he needs backed with new coaching staff and a DOF that matches our ambitions as a club.

If we never had so many players out injured,we wouldn't of signed that many players we needed numbers.

 

And we are still light in key positions in the team.

 

As for out of possession maybe he should drop Shankland and give Vargas a go through the middle.

 

He's more aggressive pressing from front, or Tagawa?, Oda could also be an option.

 

Mackenzie Kirk and James Wilson knocking on the door ?

 

Positions we are light? We need a proper central midfielder to come and take control, a leader.

 

Being Greedy a pressing forward that will give no defence a second to think.

 

Being Greedy again, Mckay is the missing piece so far.

 

I would like to have the option of atleast another two who can come on outwide.

 

After Mckay,Oda,Forrest,Vargas?

 

Have given there all for 60/70 mins and run teams ragged.

 

If we are playing high intensity football and the stats suggest we are.

 

Then players will be fecked after 60 mins.

 

You seen that with Ange at Celtic, Gerrard at Rangers.

 

They have options to go and bring on to freshen it up.

 

Well aware we are on a smaller scale I'm terms of wages etc what we can offer.

 

But how do we increase that ?

 

We can try and do it from player sales but the scouting has to be spot on.

 

I think we need a new coaching staff to help Naismith, and a new DOF to achieve this.

 

Yes I did get carried away i can admit that, again he hasn't been backed in terms of coaching staff, he's with the old regime.

 

He hasn't had the luxury of spending 1.5 mil on a player like Aberdeen or 900k like Hibs both outspent us in transfer market.

 

I'm not wrong on Naismith,he's got us in a League Cup semi final knocking out the team away from home,that knocked out the holders?

 

I got carried away thinking we would challenge for the league that i admit.

 

Given time I believe we can.

 

With the right style of play.

And I'm backing Naismith. 

 

I believe we need change in coaching staff and DOF.

 

You will see a different team once we have Gordon,Halkett, Mckay back.

 

 

You’re having to “spell it out” because you’re talking absolute shite and you’ve been trying to explain your way out of it since. Like when you lied about Joe Savage screaming “we’re skint” at fans during games. It’s just ****ing weird man. Get some help.  

[Bongo 1874]

24 minutes ago, Bender said:

You’re having to “spell it out” because you’re talking absolute shite and you’ve been trying to explain your way out of it since. Like when you lied about Joe Savage screaming “we’re skint” at fans during games. It’s just ****ing weird man. Get some help.  

Whatever,you believe what you want.

 

I think it's you that needs help.

 

When you are resorting to swearing 😂😂.

 

I don't care about Savage, he's shown me what he is,and that's all i need to know.

 

When the going gets tough,do you fold under pressure or rise to the occasion.

 

I think we know what Joe does.

 

 

 

 

[GorgieFifeLife]

19 hours ago, Sooks said:

Your manager has done nothing to impress so far

 

As for Naismith he may come good but I do not really see it . Hope so but I heavily suspect he is out of his depth and should have started at a smaller club

 

No ripping up and starting again required if he does fail though . We have a very good squad and an experienced manager would get a lot more out of them 

Don’t be a kno*.  Any credibility you have disapears when you start with that crap.  He will get this season to prove himself.  I think the idea that we have a very good squad is a bit of a myth.  We can’t keep saying that without any evidence to suggest that it’s true.  

[Sooks]

Just now, GorgieFifeLife said:

Don’t be a kno*.  Any credibility you have disapears when you start with that crap.  He will get this season to prove himself.  I think the idea that we have a very good squad is a bit of a myth.  We can’t keep saying that without any evidence to suggest that it’s true.  

You dont have a good squad , you have a couple of decent players

 

We have a good squad and need a manager to start getting the best out of them 

[Bender]

8 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Whatever,you believe what you want.

 

I think it's you that needs help.

 

When you are resorting to swearing 😂😂.

 

I don't care about Savage, he's shown me what he is,and that's all i need to know.

 

When the going gets tough,do you fold under pressure or rise to the occasion.

 

I think we know what Joe does.

 

 

 

 

Oh no, the bad man swore  Why don’t you post some stats about our throw in accuracy to help you convince yourself it’s everyone else except Naismith to blame. 

[Bender]

16 minutes ago, GorgieFifeLife said:

Don’t be a kno*.  Any credibility you have disapears when you start with that crap.  He will get this season to prove himself.  I think the idea that we have a very good squad is a bit of a myth.  We can’t keep saying that without any evidence to suggest that it’s true.  

Compare this squad with the squad in 2007/08. Or 2016/17. Or 2017/18. Or 2019/20. This is the same basic squad that was smashing our nearest rivals 11-0 over three games. Behave yourself. 

[Nookie Bear]

Bongo's greatest achievement is to make me back Neilson 😄

 

2 things:

 

I don't understand why Joe's apparent ineptitude is not taken into account when we consider Neilson's struggles.

 

and...

 

If Naismith feels constricted or unable to do his job properly then why does he not quit?

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Bongo's greatest achievement is to make me back Neilson 😄

 

2 things:

 

I don't understand why Joe's apparent ineptitude is not taken into account when we consider Neilson's struggles.

 

and...

 

If Naismith feels constricted or unable to do his job properly then why does he not quit?

Bongo rated Savage when Neilson was in charge  

[CMc]

15 hours ago, Bender said:

You’re having to “spell it out” because you’re talking absolute shite and you’ve been trying to explain your way out of it since. Like when you lied about Joe Savage screaming “we’re skint” at fans during games. It’s just ****ing weird man. Get some help.  

 

5 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

Bongo's greatest achievement is to make me back Neilson 😄

 

2 things:

 

I don't understand why Joe's apparent ineptitude is not taken into account when we consider Neilson's struggles.

 

and...

 

If Naismith feels constricted or unable to do his job properly then why does he not quit?

 

4 hours ago, Sooks said:

Bongo rated Savage when Neilson was in charge  

 

[Bazzas right boot]

16 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Whatever,you believe what you want.

 

I think it's you that needs help.

 

When you are resorting to swearing 😂😂.

 

I don't care about Savage, he's shown me what he is,and that's all i need to know.

 

When the going gets tough,do you fold under pressure or rise to the occasion.

 

I think we know what Joe does.

 

 

 

 

 

You were a Savage fan under Bob, never considered Injuries and ultimately it was Bobs fault we were shite and you wanted him gone,  despite never being out the top 4 and 3rd place finishes under his belt.

 

You were all about belief and the next level ( challenging the OF), Bob was holding us back, etc now its about giving Naismith time just so we can match what Bob achieved!

 

I actually think giving Naismith time is best, but **** me you haven't half changed your complete out look.

 

It's beyond incredible the change.

 

 

[colinmorewasgash]

20 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

He's in the Hearts job due to certain circumstances,i can't believe I'm having to spell this out. Men and women lie,stats down lie.

Let's not speak of the dead.

I have seen improvement i believe in the playing style he is trying to implement.

I believe he needs backed with new coaching staff and a DOF that matches our ambitions as a club.

If we never had so many players out injured,we wouldn't of signed that many players we needed numbers.

 

And we are still light in key positions in the team.

 

As for out of possession maybe he should drop Shankland and give Vargas a go through the middle.

 

He's more aggressive pressing from front, or Tagawa?, Oda could also be an option.

 

Mackenzie Kirk and James Wilson knocking on the door ?

 

Positions we are light? We need a proper central midfielder to come and take control, a leader.

 

Being Greedy a pressing forward that will give no defence a second to think.

 

Being Greedy again, Mckay is the missing piece so far.

 

I would like to have the option of atleast another two who can come on outwide.

 

After Mckay,Oda,Forrest,Vargas?

 

Have given there all for 60/70 mins and run teams ragged.

 

If we are playing high intensity football and the stats suggest we are.

 

Then players will be fecked after 60 mins.

 

You seen that with Ange at Celtic, Gerrard at Rangers.

 

They have options to go and bring on to freshen it up.

 

Well aware we are on a smaller scale I'm terms of wages etc what we can offer.

 

But how do we increase that ?

 

We can try and do it from player sales but the scouting has to be spot on.

 

I think we need a new coaching staff to help Naismith, and a new DOF to achieve this.

 

Yes I did get carried away i can admit that, again he hasn't been backed in terms of coaching staff, he's with the old regime.

 

He hasn't had the luxury of spending 1.5 mil on a player like Aberdeen or 900k like Hibs both outspent us in transfer market.

 

I'm not wrong on Naismith,he's got us in a League Cup semi final knocking out the team away from home,that knocked out the holders?

 

I got carried away thinking we would challenge for the league that i admit.

 

Given time I believe we can.

 

With the right style of play.

And I'm backing Naismith. 

 

I believe we need change in coaching staff and DOF.

 

You will see a different team once we have Gordon,Halkett, Mckay back.

 

 

We get told last season we have made more money last season  due to europe plus finishing 3rd and foh money than ever before. Then get told cause we finished 4th not 3rd we dont have the money now because we were relying on 3rd, so if we were relying on a few extra games to help us and our benefactors and foh bailing us out finamcially then what are they doing with money they make. Its not on expensive signings.

[Bazzas right boot]

20 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

He's in the Hearts job due to certain circumstances,i can't believe I'm having to spell this out. Men and women lie,stats down lie.

Let's not speak of the dead.

I have seen improvement i believe in the playing style he is trying to implement.

I believe he needs backed with new coaching staff and a DOF that matches our ambitions as a club.

If we never had so many players out injured,we wouldn't of signed that many players we needed numbers.

 

And we are still light in key positions in the team.

 

As for out of possession maybe he should drop Shankland and give Vargas a go through the middle.

 

He's more aggressive pressing from front, or Tagawa?, Oda could also be an option.

 

Mackenzie Kirk and James Wilson knocking on the door ?

 

Positions we are light? We need a proper central midfielder to come and take control, a leader.

 

Being Greedy a pressing forward that will give no defence a second to think.

 

Being Greedy again, Mckay is the missing piece so far.

 

I would like to have the option of atleast another two who can come on outwide.

 

After Mckay,Oda,Forrest,Vargas?

 

Have given there all for 60/70 mins and run teams ragged.

 

If we are playing high intensity football and the stats suggest we are.

 

Then players will be fecked after 60 mins.

 

You seen that with Ange at Celtic, Gerrard at Rangers.

 

They have options to go and bring on to freshen it up.

 

Well aware we are on a smaller scale I'm terms of wages etc what we can offer.

 

But how do we increase that ?

 

We can try and do it from player sales but the scouting has to be spot on.

 

I think we need a new coaching staff to help Naismith, and a new DOF to achieve this.

 

Yes I did get carried away i can admit that, again he hasn't been backed in terms of coaching staff, he's with the old regime.

 

He hasn't had the luxury of spending 1.5 mil on a player like Aberdeen or 900k like Hibs both outspent us in transfer market.

 

I'm not wrong on Naismith,he's got us in a League Cup semi final knocking out the team away from home,that knocked out the holders?

 

I got carried away thinking we would challenge for the league that i admit.

 

Given time I believe we can.

 

With the right style of play.

And I'm backing Naismith. 

 

I believe we need change in coaching staff and DOF.

 

You will see a different team once we have Gordon,Halkett, Mckay back.

 

 

 

Gordon and Halkett were out last season plus we  never had Kent.

Not once did you use them or injuries as mitigation for the previous manager. 

 

You also never indicated our previous manager needed a new DOF.

 

You backing for this manger reads like a different poster from the one moaning about the previous one for over a year.

 

I prefer this Bongo, but is does Indicate that the orevious manager pissed in your chips at some point. 

 

 

 

 

[Sooks]

17 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Gordon and Halkett were out last season plus we  never had Kent.

Not once did you use them or injuries as mitigation for the previous manager. 

 

You also never indicated our previous manager needed a new DOF.

 

You backing for this manger reads like a different poster from the one moaning about the previous one for over a year.

 

I prefer this Bongo, but is does Indicate that the orevious manager pissed in your chips at some point. 

 

 

 

 

That is exactly how it reads . Last season Every thing was in place to challenge the old firm according to him , and it was just Neilson and a lack of belief holding us back . Naismith was going to come in and get us playing football on the front foot and that would take us to the next level . Now that has been proven to be the nonsense everyone knew it to be , it is Savage who is holding us back

 

Completely bonkers 

[Bull's-eye]

I think Naisy deserves the season now to show everyone what he's got.

Doesn't matter a jot what side of the fence you sit. I dont think we've gone backwards style wise, maybe a few steps sideways and the odd encouraging sign. That was always going to be the case and a few of the more attuned supporters said so at the start of the season.

 

Hope he succeeds personally.

[Jim Panzee]

I hope he's a roaring success too - because if he is, by default Hearts are.

 

hope he also turns out to be a jammy so and so with injuries and we see what he can do with a fully fit squad.

[Sooks]

12 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

I think Naisy deserves the season now to show everyone what he's got.

Doesn't matter a jot what side of the fence you sit. I dont think we've gone backwards style wise, maybe a few steps sideways and the odd encouraging sign. That was always going to be the case and a few of the more attuned supporters said so at the start of the season.

 

Hope he succeeds personally.

 

9 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

I hope he's a roaring success too - because if he is, by default Hearts are.

 

hope he also turns out to be a jammy so and so with injuries and we see what he can do with a fully fit squad.

Absolutely I think almost everyone wants that . It is the moving on to the next scapegoat ( Savage ) by those who were adamant Naismith was going to reinvent the wheel that is annoying . Ironically every one who was not keen on the appointment are the ones hoping he turns it around and not screaming for the boards heads

[davie1980]

On 18/10/2023 at 20:48, Bongo 1874 said:

He's in the Hearts job due to certain circumstances,i can't believe I'm having to spell this out. Men and women lie,stats down lie.

Let's not speak of the dead.

I have seen improvement i believe in the playing style he is trying to implement.

I believe he needs backed with new coaching staff and a DOF that matches our ambitions as a club.

If we never had so many players out injured,we wouldn't of signed that many players we needed numbers.

 

And we are still light in key positions in the team.

 

As for out of possession maybe he should drop Shankland and give Vargas a go through the middle.

 

He's more aggressive pressing from front, or Tagawa?, Oda could also be an option.

 

Mackenzie Kirk and James Wilson knocking on the door ?

 

Positions we are light? We need a proper central midfielder to come and take control, a leader.

 

Being Greedy a pressing forward that will give no defence a second to think.

 

Being Greedy again, Mckay is the missing piece so far.

 

I would like to have the option of atleast another two who can come on outwide.

 

After Mckay,Oda,Forrest,Vargas?

 

Have given there all for 60/70 mins and run teams ragged.

 

If we are playing high intensity football and the stats suggest we are.

 

Then players will be fecked after 60 mins.

 

You seen that with Ange at Celtic, Gerrard at Rangers.

 

They have options to go and bring on to freshen it up.

 

Well aware we are on a smaller scale I'm terms of wages etc what we can offer.

 

But how do we increase that ?

 

We can try and do it from player sales but the scouting has to be spot on.

 

I think we need a new coaching staff to help Naismith, and a new DOF to achieve this.

 

Yes I did get carried away i can admit that, again he hasn't been backed in terms of coaching staff, he's with the old regime.

 

He hasn't had the luxury of spending 1.5 mil on a player like Aberdeen or 900k like Hibs both outspent us in transfer market.

 

I'm not wrong on Naismith,he's got us in a League Cup semi final knocking out the team away from home,that knocked out the holders?

 

I got carried away thinking we would challenge for the league that i admit.

 

Given time I believe we can.

 

With the right style of play.

And I'm backing Naismith. 

 

I believe we need change in coaching staff and DOF.

 

You will see a different team once we have Gordon,Halkett, Mckay back.

 

 

 

I'm going to hunt you down and steal your ****ing return key. That'll teach you.

[Bull's-eye]

6 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Absolutely I think almost everyone wants that . It is the moving on to the next scapegoat ( Savage ) by those who were adamant Naismith was going to reinvent the wheel that is annoying . Ironically every one who was not keen on the appointment are the ones hoping he turns it around and not screaming for the boards heads

 

No doubt there are plenty on here that demand someone to blame, its a lifestyle thing for me, you will have worked with plenty over the years that will blame everyone and anyone for everything. A typical human trait in fairness.

 

The rest of us just enjoy our lives and try hard to make the best of it as we pass through 😉

[Jim Panzee]

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Absolutely I think almost everyone wants that . It is the moving on to the next scapegoat ( Savage ) by those who were adamant Naismith was going to reinvent the wheel that is annoying . Ironically every one who was not keen on the appointment are the ones hoping he turns it around and not screaming for the boards heads

there's always scapegoats when a team doesn't win.

 

starts with players....then managers.....then backroom coaches.....then scouts / recruitment....then the board

 

after that - it's barrel scrapping.

 

did - and still does - tickle me when even people in the Tynecastle offices got it in the neck for being too polite and friendly.

 

 

 

[Bender]

29 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

I think Naisy deserves the season now to show everyone what he's got.

Doesn't matter a jot what side of the fence you sit. I dont think we've gone backwards style wise, maybe a few steps sideways and the odd encouraging sign. That was always going to be the case and a few of the more attuned supporters said so at the start of the season.

 

Hope he succeeds personally.

 

His comments when taking the job have worked against him imo. He spoke about being on the front foot and how the fans deserved to see better than what we were getting. My problem with this whole setup is we've seen this story before. A rookie manager in his first job who just isn't getting results. I think a lot of people are fed up at the perceived lack of clear progress, even with the unprecedented level of backing the supporters have been giving.

[Bender]

16 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Absolutely I think almost everyone wants that . It is the moving on to the next scapegoat ( Savage ) by those who were adamant Naismith was going to reinvent the wheel that is annoying . Ironically every one who was not keen on the appointment are the ones hoping he turns it around and not screaming for the boards heads

 

I'd be more than happy seeing a restructure of the board. The potential this football club has is being held back somewhere and they're the obvious common denominator at this point.

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Bender said:

 

I'd be more than happy seeing a restructure of the board. The potential this football club has is being held back somewhere and they're the obvious common denominator at this point.

I disagree . We are printing money just now . We have overhauled our entire infrastructure , we have really good players , we pay decent wages and we pay small transfer fees . I hope he comes good I really really do , but it is glaringly obvious what is holding us back at present 

[Bender]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

I disagree . We are printing money just now . We have overhauled our entire infrastructure , we have really good players , we pay decent wages and we pay small transfer fees . I hope he comes good I really really do , but it is glaringly obvious what is holding us back at present 

 

Yet we've been unable to translate this off field success into anything substantial on the pitch. Plenty wasted seasons because they've neglected the real reason this business exists. I don't think they have the right level of ambition for the club personally. It all feels a bit laissez-faire from the outside.

[Jim Panzee]

2 minutes ago, Bender said:

 

I'd be more than happy seeing a restructure of the board. The potential this football club has is being held back somewhere and they're the obvious common denominator at this point.

a restructure of the board would.....??

 

stop craig gordon suffering a freak leg break?

Halkett twanging his hammies?

Rowles breaking his foot slap bang in the best form he's had for us?

Atkinson being dragged in a headlock to the floor and getting injured?

McKay busting his ligaments running for the ball?

Beni busting his knee

Boyce as above

Kingsley and Haring getting concussion injuries?

 

would a restructured board:

change direction of the deflection of the ball off Sibbick's boot anywhere but into the path of youan for his 1st goal?

prevent VAR making sure Cochrane gets sent off instead of sticking with a yellow v celtic

 

the board are delivering - i.e. giving the 1st team coaches / managers plenty of budget. They've also tried a variety of manager types.

 

Not sure what restructuring the would do - but happy to be educated as always 

 

[Sooks]

15 minutes ago, Bender said:

 

Yet we've been unable to translate this off field success into anything substantial on the pitch. Plenty wasted seasons because they've neglected the real reason this business exists. I don't think they have the right level of ambition for the club personally. It all feels a bit laissez-faire from the outside.

I think the appointment of Savage has seen a big turnaround in some parts of the football operation . I am very happy at the standard of player we are now able to attract and sign , and that is down to being in a position to find good players amongst the rubbish out there , and having the cash and gravitas and infrastructure to be an appealing move for them . Up until the last month or two of Neilsons tenure we were reaching finals and winning most weeks . It was translating in to a level of relative success for us by our historical standards . Neilson then lost the plot and refused to change the formula that everyone had sussed out and combined with Aberdeens new manager bounce , he fell at the final hurdle . Even that disappointment was historically a relatively decent finish or season for us though . I 100% believe that if we had just appointed an experienced manager with a decent track record then we would be up there fighting at the top of the league . It is frustrating as hell to me because we have everything else right imo . Now that he is in the job we just have to give him time to get it right I suppose . Or we sack him and embrace the flux . He really should not have been appointed in the first place but here we are and we need to make the best of it . Personally hoping it clicks and he lives up to the billing that some people were adamant he was deserving off

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Sooks

[Bull's-eye]

16 minutes ago, Bender said:

 

His comments when taking the job have worked against him imo. He spoke about being on the front foot and how the fans deserved to see better than what we were getting. My problem with this whole setup is we've seen this story before. A rookie manager in his first job who just isn't getting results. I think a lot of people are fed up at the perceived lack of clear progress, even with the unprecedented level of backing the supporters have been giving.

 

I dont think his comments meant much to anyone tbh.

Thats hard of thinking chat, he didn't really need to try and get the supporters on board because already being at the club and wearing the shirt he already had majority backing.

 

I still think he has the majority as far as i can see, hence a few of the mouth breathers blaming Savage, the board, the tea lady etc etc etc.

 

Im ok saying, i didn't want him getting the job because i thought we should go for an experienced time served manager.

We didnt, so we support what we have.

 

He knew the pressures taking the job and he knows this could possibly end his management career before it even gets going. There's no doubt in my mind Naisy will think he can move up the ladder.

 

Sit back, enjoy & hope he succeeds.

[Bender]

6 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

a restructure of the board would.....??

 

stop craig gordon suffering a freak leg break?

Halkett twanging his hammies?

Rowles breaking his foot slap bang in the best form he's had for us?

Atkinson being dragged in a headlock to the floor and getting injured?

McKay busting his ligaments running for the ball?

Beni busting his knee

Boyce as above

Kingsley and Haring getting concussion injuries?

 

would a restructured board:

change direction of the deflection of the ball off Sibbick's boot anywhere but into the path of youan for his 1st goal?

prevent VAR making sure Cochrane gets sent off instead of sticking with a yellow v celtic

 

the board are delivering - i.e. giving the 1st team coaches / managers plenty of budget. They've also tried a variety of manager types.

 

Not sure what restructuring the would do - but happy to be educated as always 

 

 

Wow. That is quite something. I know this place has a reputation for people missing the point others are trying to make, but I didn't think it was this bad.

 

There are people within the hierarchy at Tynecastle who appointed Cathro, a rookie manager who had no business being anywhere near a job like this on his first (and only) go. They then appointed a man nobody wanted in Craig Levein. They then backed him for far too long, when anyone with eyes could see how poorly the team were doing between November 2018 and the cup final in 2019. They allowed him to hang around the club while his replacement tried to get us out of a relegation dogfight. A board who disrespected a cup winning manager by not even giving him the courtesy of a return call when he applied for the job again.

 

They made the right call in bringing Neilson back and then letting him go when he needed to be.

 

Now we're back to square one. Another rookie manager, except this time we had to be all sneaky about it because he doesn't have the correct qualifications. All that after 2 wins from 7 games. 2 of which you can rightfully claim were down to daft sendings off, but still only 2 from 7. Was he really the better option than any of the others who applied? I doubt it.

 

Why is it, when we're being told the club is in the best position it's ever been off the field, that we've been entirely unsuccessful at translating that onto the pitch bar two seasons out of the last ten (one of which didn't have Rangers or Hibs to compete against)?

[Bender]

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I think the appointment of Savage has seen a big turnaround in some parts of the football operation . I am very happy at the standard of player we are now able to attract and sign , and that is down to being in a position to find good players amongst the rubbish out there , and having the cash and gravitas and infrastructure to be an appealing move for them . Up until the last month or two of Neilsons tenure we were reaching finals and winning most weeks . It was translating in to a level of relative success for us by our historical standards . Neilson then lost the plot and refused to change the formula that everyone had sussed out and combined with Aberdeens new manager bounce , he fell at the final hurdle . Even that disappointment was historically a relatively decent finish or season for us though . I 100% believe that if we had just appointed an experienced manager with a decent track record then we would be up there fighting at the top of the league . It is frustrating as hell to me because we have everything else right imo . Now that he is in the job we just have to give him time to get it right I suppose . Or we sack him and embrace the flux . He really should not have been appointed in the first place but here we are and we need to make the best of it . Personally hoping it clicks and he lives up to the billing that some people were adamant he was deserving off

 

 

 

 

I think it speaks volumes that Aberdeen experienced such a remarkable new manager bounce and we did not. FWIW I don't blame him for being in the job, he's done what any rookie manager would've done in his position. I would love for him to prove me wrong, because if he's doing well then Hearts are doing well. But I just don't see it.

 

4 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

I dont think his comments meant much to anyone tbh.

Thats hard of thinking chat, he didn't really need to try and get the supporters on board because already being at the club and wearing the shirt he already had majority backing.

 

I still think he has the majority as far as i can see, hence a few of the mouth breathers blaming Savage, the board, the tea lady etc etc etc.

 

Im ok saying, i didn't want him getting the job because i thought we should go for an experienced time served manager.

We didnt, so we support what we have.

 

He knew the pressures taking the job and he knows this could possibly end his management career before it even gets going. There's no doubt in my mind Naisy will think he can move up the ladder.

 

Sit back, enjoy & hope he succeeds.

 

Out of the match going supporters I speak to every weekend, he definitely doesn't have the majority there. Maybe other people in other parts of the stadium are completely behind him, but I don't think anyone can rightly say he has a majority either way. Personally I think the writings on the wall. We've been pretty poor all season so far and we've yet to play either team from Glasgow or travel to the homes of either of the teams in and around us last season.

[Bull's-eye]

2 minutes ago, Bender said:

 

I think it speaks volumes that Aberdeen experienced such a remarkable new manager bounce and we did not. FWIW I don't blame him for being in the job, he's done what any rookie manager would've done in his position. I would love for him to prove me wrong, because if he's doing well then Hearts are doing well. But I just don't see it.

 

 

Out of the match going supporters I speak to every weekend, he definitely doesn't have the majority there. Maybe other people in other parts of the stadium are completely behind him, but I don't think anyone can rightly say he has a majority either way. Personally I think the writings on the wall. We've been pretty poor all season so far and we've yet to play either team from Glasgow or travel to the homes of either of the teams in and around us last season.

 

You want him to fail.

 

Just say it.

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Bender said:

 

I think it speaks volumes that Aberdeen experienced such a remarkable new manager bounce and we did not. FWIW I don't blame him for being in the job, he's done what any rookie manager would've done in his position. I would love for him to prove me wrong, because if he's doing well then Hearts are doing well. But I just don't see it.

 

Pretty much where I am at tbh . I just disagree about changing the board or Savage and risking all the things that have improved . It was the wrong appointment imo , but that is not enough for me to want to rip everything else up and really head back to square one 

[Bender]

1 minute ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

You want him to fail.

 

Just say it.

 

Ah ok, I don't think he's good enough for where we want to be so that just means I want him to fail. That's some mightily impressive mental gymnastics there.

[Bender]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

Pretty much where I am at tbh . I just disagree about changing the board or Savage and risking all the things that have improved . It was the wrong appointment imo , but that is not enough for me to want to rip everything else up and really head back to square one 

 

I don't blame Savage at all tbh. But I do still think there are too many in the boardroom who are too comfortable with their positions.

[soonbe110]

44 minutes ago, Bender said:

 

I'd be more than happy seeing a restructure of the board. The potential this football club has is being held back somewhere and they're the obvious common denominator at this point.

Based on that you must believe either Savage or Naismith or both need to 

go. Which is it?  The only influences the Board have on the footballing side are the budget, which they have done an excellent job of growing, or the appointments of a manager and sporting director. 

[Sooks]

Just now, Bender said:

 

I don't blame Savage at all tbh. But I do still think there are too many in the boardroom who are too comfortable with their positions.

With regards the boardroom , I am not privy to how things operate so I can only judge them on numbers and the success of their decisions . Overall the numbers are very impressive indeed , and the improvement in facilities and infrastructure is levels above what they inherited . Since launching Levein we seem to have good people in all the right places and that has seen the quality of player climb as well as league position and finals appearances . I do not want to keep saying it because it will start to appear as though I am not backing him and desperate for him to do well , but the only poor decision this current board has made since Savage has been in place has been appointing a rookie coach imo 

[Bender]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Based on that you must believe either Savage or Naismith or both need to 

go. Which is it?  The only influences the Board have on the footballing side are the budget, which they have done an excellent job of growing, or the appointments of a manager and sporting director. 

 

Unless we see a somewhat dramatic upturn in form, I don't think we can persist with the management team we have in place right now.

[OTT]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

I think Naisy deserves the season now to show everyone what he's got.

Doesn't matter a jot what side of the fence you sit. I dont think we've gone backwards style wise, maybe a few steps sideways and the odd encouraging sign. That was always going to be the case and a few of the more attuned supporters said so at the start of the season.

 

Hope he succeeds personally.

 

I mean there is no downside to letting the season play out - its unlikely an incoming manager would be able to turn things around quickly enough to get us 3rd if we needed to sack him - as 3rd is the only way to ensure European group stage football as Scottish teams are utterly incapable of winning enough of the qualifiers. 

 

But if he fails to achieve 3rd, then there needs to be a discussion. 

[soonbe110]

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

With regards the boardroom , I am not privy to how things operate so I can only judge them on numbers and the success of their decisions . Overall the numbers are very impressive indeed , and the improvement in facilities and infrastructure is levels above what they inherited . Since launching Levein we seem to have good people in all the right places and that has seen the quality of player climb as well as league position and finals appearances . I do not want to keep saying it because it will start to appear as though I am not backing him and desperate for him to do well , but the only poor decision this current board has made since Savage has been in place has been appointing a rookie coach imo 

The great unknown is how much influence Savage had in the manager hiring exercise. Rumours abound that he was either pushing hard for Naismith or he was dead against the appointment.  Would be useful to know the truth. 

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I mean there is no downside to letting the season play out - its unlikely an incoming manager would be able to turn things around quickly enough to get us 3rd if we needed to sack him - as 3rd is the only way to ensure European group stage football as Scottish teams are utterly incapable of winning enough of the qualifiers. 

 

But if he fails to achieve 3rd, then there needs to be a discussion. 

The downside would be a struggle or fail to make top 6.  We tried last season, very late on, to bring a manager in to get us third and he went very close. Maybe we shouldn’t wait so long. Think there’s a huge downside to letting the season play out especially if there’s no improvement in form and results by Xmas.  Hopefully the recent signs of progress pick up speed soon.