*** Official St Mirren v Heart Of Midlothian thread ***

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Starting games as slowly as we did last season really didn't help matters either. Gives the opposition too much time to settle into the game, when we should be going hell for leather to not let that happen and try and force an early goal to take Robinsons anti football approach off the table. 

 

Still adamant that came from a poor approach pre-match. Players should be rearing to go, especially at home and I'm wondering if Robbies approach to preparation before the game wasn't having an impact. We've seen teams start on the front foot, and it doesn't come from being passive, which is exactly what we were last season. 

I totally agree about pre match and the bloody minded insistence of sticking to the patient probing build up through Snodgrass for those last five games of Neilsons tenure was infuriating . We needed to come out snarling but just kept meekly offering ourselves up on a plate 

[Mr Elwood P]

49 minutes ago, DS98 said:

Correct. On this seasons showing you’d sooner drop Shankland than Boyce. 

 

32 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Its the pace (or lack of). Not starting doesn't mean not playing, really pleased to see Boyce looking solid and back to looking like the player we first brought to the club. 

 

Its not a slight on him at all, just looking to see if we can use Tagawas pace. Really like to look of him, but he needs to get a run to build up some form IMO.

 

If St Mirren just plan to sit in though, Boyce might be the better call. 

 

Is Tagawa actually that fast? I'd side with DS98 based on Saturday's performance. We really want to get Boyce scoring a few goals now that's he's off the mark.

[Fozzyonthefence]

50 minutes ago, DS98 said:

Correct. On this seasons showing you’d sooner drop Shankland than Boyce. 

You’d play someone with one goal over someone with 4 that scored 28 last season?!  Neither of them exactly setting the heather on fire with general play it has to be said and Boyce in particular slows things down far too much, anyways seems to take 4 or 5 touches when 1 would suffice.  When everyone fit I can see him as more of an impact player off the bench. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

How can you have watched Liam Boyce on Saturday and dropped him for Tagawa? Mental. 

 

I was thinking the exact same  

 

Hoff in the middle with Devlin for me, and keep Haring if we need to use him off the bench, dare I say it but Forrest done well on Saturday, so if Oda isn't fit, then start him. 

[OTT]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

 

Is Tagawa actually that fast? I'd side with DS98 based on Saturday's performance. We really want to get Boyce scoring a few goals now that's he's off the mark.

 

I've always been under the impression he was a like for like replacement for Gino? A play on the shoulder of the defender/ pacey attacker type?

 

On Boyce, you're right tbh. If Boyce can find the net more frequently then that is ultimately a good thing which will hopefully open the game up for Shankland and give teams a lot more difficulty containing our attacking threat (which includes 2 proven 20 goal a season strikers at this level, which is a bloody good position to be in). 

 

My main reason for saying Tagawa was purely to get that pace up front. But concede that if Boyce is on form, we need to capitalise on that. 

[John Findlay]

Saturday would be a good time for Shankland to find his shooting boots again.

[Fozzyonthefence]

6 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Saturday would be a good time for Shankland to find his shooting boots again.

Would be a good time for him to play further forward again so he gets a chance to use them. 

[Mr Elwood P]

9 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I've always been under the impression he was a like for like replacement for Gino? A play on the shoulder of the defender/ pacey attacker type?

 

On Boyce, you're right tbh. If Boyce can find the net more frequently then that is ultimately a good thing which will hopefully open the game up for Shankland and give teams a lot more difficulty containing our attacking threat (which includes 2 proven 20 goal a season strikers at this level, which is a bloody good position to be in). 

 

My main reason for saying Tagawa was purely to get that pace up front. But concede that if Boyce is on form, we need to capitalise on that. 

Oda and Vargas look a lot more like Gino replacements to me than Tagawa. Think they will all be good options over the course of the season though.

[Baxfee]

2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Glad you did you research here... First card since May, booked too easily. Prime  JKB.

To be fair, he was hooked after 5mins of 2nd half cos he immediately committed a foul whilst being  on a yellow - not the brightest move in such a crucial game. 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Haring was very lucky not to be booked again for that daft tackle on the edge of the box. Luckily Clancy played advantage and VAR couldn't intervene as it wasn't in the box.

[DS98]

2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You’d play someone with one goal over someone with 4 that scored 28 last season?!  Neither of them exactly setting the heather on fire with general play it has to be said and Boyce in particular slows things down far too much, anyways seems to take 4 or 5 touches when 1 would suffice.  When everyone fit I can see him as more of an impact player off the bench. 

I would play them both but a poster said he would effectively drop Boyce for Tagawa and play Shankland deeper. If it’s a straight choice between Boyce and Shankland in the 10 then it’s Boyce every day of the week. 
 

And in general play this season Boyce and Shankland couldn’t be further apart, imo. Boyce has been probably our best most creative player. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Had Tagawa been fit, controversial I know, but I'd be sorely tempted to give Shankland a rest. Hope he is relieved of international duties October so he can get a week off at least

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

34 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Haring was very lucky not to be booked again for that daft tackle on the edge of the box. Luckily Clancy played advantage and VAR couldn't intervene as it wasn't in the box.

Haring was very unlucky to be booked when he was, rightly or wrongly referees tend to even up their errors when the OF are not involved

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

35 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Haring was very unlucky to be booked when he was, rightly or wrongly referees tend to even up their errors when the OF are not involved

Agree he was very unlucky with his booking but having been booked he was lucky to stay on park 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 hour ago, Baxfee said:

To be fair, he was hooked after 5mins of 2nd half cos he immediately committed a foul whilst being  on a yellow - not the brightest move in such a crucial game. 

You can add that to all the other yellow cards you imagined him getting...

[Famous 1874]

3 hours ago, MattyK82 said:

Interestingly, out of the last 8 matches v them, we have won 5, drawn 2 and only lost 1 (the one right before Robbie got sacked).

Sorry meant away at their gaff. 
 

Mustn’t be too many wins in the past decade there. 

[Butterbean1874]

4 hours ago, Baxfee said:

Wouldn’t start with haring as he is getting booked too easily. Give Hoff a start, don’t play beni (for protection reasons), and haring to come on late 2nd half if required. 

Think Devlin & Haring to similar need to with Devlin & Grant or Devlin & Hoff

[MattyK82]

18 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Sorry meant away at their gaff. 
 

Mustn’t be too many wins in the past decade there. 

We’ve not lost in Paisley since March 2020. We are undefeated there in our last 4 matches (2 wins, 2 draws).

 

Going back 10 years, our record there is as follows (2 wins, 5 draws, 3 defeats)

 

St Mirren 2 Hearts 2

St Mirren 1 Hearts 1

St Mirren 0 Hearts 2

St Mirren 1 Hearts 2

St Mirren 1 Hearts 0 (11 March 2020)

St Mirren 0 Hearts 0

St Mirren 2 Hearts 0

St Mirren 1 Hearts 1

St Mirren 1 Hearts 1

St Mirren 3 Hearts 2

 

So not that many wins, but not many defeats either. Mainly draw through there. But our recent history there is decent.

[loveofthegame]

League form this season (good win against a garbage Aberdeen on Sunday apart), league form towards the end of last season, away form for most of the last decade (/more?!) and St Mirren's start to the season all point to this being a really difficult game.

 

But quite simply, if we want to be finishing third and Naismith wants to take us forward then, while not must win, a win would be hugely important.

 

Based on very little beyond blind optimism, I'll go for a 2-0 Hearts win. 

 

But any win would be a superb 3 points, and ultimately a point wouldn't be a complete disaster. With our run of upcoming fixtures, a defeat would be far from ideal and we'd find ourselves looking over our shoulder more than at the sides above us for at least the next month.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Win would be a fantastic statement of intent. Draw wouldn’t be the end of the world.

 

We’re one game out of a pretty bad run of form. I’m going to temper my expectations a bit.

 

I don’t really expect it but I’d kind of like to see us go with a 442 with speedy wingers like Vargas and Forrest. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Haring was very unlucky to be booked when he was, rightly or wrongly referees tend to even up their errors when the OF are not involved

Are you actually being serious?  It was a professional foul from behind, taking one for the team.  He knew exactly what he was doing and was a yellow card 100 times out of 100.

[Wee Mikey]

6 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Quite the opposite in my opinion! Far too many times we set up negatively worrying about the opposition 

 

I think I know what you're getting at and not totally disagreeing, but it's a tad more nuanced than that?

 

The recent and frustrating 'possession 1st' strategy all too often came unstuck (often in the 1st half) leading to us only becoming more dynamic having conceded due to our own eff ups whether tactical or individual. Sadly, there are all too many examples of that. We really do have a knack of 'doing it to ourselves'.

 

We really need to be on the front foot for both halves every game. It's not too much to ask? Other managers have played on our propensity for making errors and exploiting that, aided and abetted by other teams relying on (often gifted) set pieces that they've played for, plus arguably laughable reffing.

 

Thankfully, our defence seems to have improved.

 

Home v Aberdeen showed that we can beat other teams when a game of football breaks out. 😆

 

Anyhoo; yes, your notion of us 'worrying about the opposition' is manifested in our sometimes baffling team selections (injuries etc. notwithstanding) and this is where I agree with you. It really should be our opponents worrying about us rather than us overthinking their approach. After all, teams with players who are less gifted (and often giants) are being given every opportunity, whether at throw-ins (where we typically take forever) or when our 'keeper has a chance to launch an attack, to re-group and take up a solid defensive line-up rather than us hit them when they're all out of place.

 

Does my nut in, so it does. Grrr ...

 

Ach, I'm expecting Sat to be totally different as Naismith knows fine well how to better a team like St M.

 

So, we'll (I mean me & all other away stalwarts) be going through on Sat with the usual gusto and looking for a total thrashing for the 'Lie-Doons'. 😆

 

No doubt that The Gorgie will be there in full voice.

 

Ps ...  top tip ... get a 'Blaggis Pie' as they put both ours and the over-rated Killie pies to shame. Steak, Haggis, and black-pudding ... arguably not what yer doctor would recommend ... but they're totes yummy. 😁

 

❤️❤️G❤️

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 hours ago, DS98 said:

I would play them both but a poster said he would effectively drop Boyce for Tagawa and play Shankland deeper. If it’s a straight choice between Boyce and Shankland in the 10 then it’s Boyce every day of the week. 
 

And in general play this season Boyce and Shankland couldn’t be further apart, imo. Boyce has been probably our best most creative player. 

I don’t think Tagawa has shown anything to suggest he deserves to be staring games but if SN is wanting the ball played forward and quickly then Boyce is not the man!  Takes him 4 or 5 touches to get the ball under control when others are taking 1 or 2.  I can see him being used off the bench a lot when everyone is fit, a good squad player but we really need better for starting game and playing at a higher tempo. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

6 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

I think I know what you're getting at and not totally disagreeing, but it's a tad more nuanced than that?

 

The recent and frustrating 'possession 1st' strategy all too often came unstuck (often in the 1st half) leading to us only becoming more dynamic having conceded due to our own eff ups whether tactical or individual. Sadly, there are all too many examples of that. We really do have a knack of 'doing it to ourselves'.

 

We really need to be on the front foot for both halves every game. It's not too much to ask? Other managers have played on our propensity for making errors and exploiting that, aided and abetted by other teams relying on (often gifted) set pieces that they've played for, plus arguably laughable reffing.

 

Thankfully, our defence seems to have improved.

 

Home v Aberdeen showed that we can beat other teams when a game of football breaks out. 😆

 

Anyhoo; yes, your notion of us 'worrying about the opposition' is manifested in our sometimes baffling team selections (injuries etc. notwithstanding) and this is where I agree with you. It really should be our opponents worrying about us rather than us overthinking their approach. After all, teams with players who are less gifted (and often giants) are being given every opportunity, whether at throw-ins (where we typically take forever) or when our 'keeper has a chance to launch an attack, to re-group and take up a solid defensive line-up rather than us hit them when they're all out of place.

 

Does my nut in, so it does. Grrr ...

 

Ach, I'm expecting Sat to be totally different as Naismith knows fine well how to better a team like St M.

 

So, we'll (I mean me & all other away stalwarts) be going through on Sat with the usual gusto and looking for a total thrashing for the 'Lie-Doons'. 😆

 

No doubt that The Gorgie will be there in full voice.

 

Ps ...  top tip ... get a 'Blaggis Pie' as they put both ours and the over-rated Killie pies to shame. Steak, Haggis, and black-pudding ... arguably not what yer doctor would recommend ... but they're totes yummy. 😁

 

❤️❤️G❤️

 

Pie sounds nice actually, may well try one of those on Saturday 

[By The Light..]

Motherwell were unlucky not score at least one and St Midden scored against the run of play however that's the game so we need some controlled passing like the latter stages on Saturday.

 

Bookies have home win 6/4 and away just slightly higher at 17/10

£20 on Hearts returns £54

Edited September 18, 2023 by By The Light..

[Wee Mikey]

5 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Pie sounds nice actually, may well try one of those on Saturday 

 

Get two so as to sustain you on your long journey home. One for each hand. 😁

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Get two so as to sustain you on your long journey home. One for each hand. 😁

It is a long journey aswell buddy , 3 bloody trains

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You’d play someone with one goal over someone with 4 that scored 28 last season?!  Neither of them exactly setting the heather on fire with general play it has to be said and Boyce in particular slows things down far too much, anyways seems to take 4 or 5 touches when 1 would suffice.  When everyone fit I can see him as more of an impact player off the bench. 

Spot on, he and Shankland tripping over each other in the same area allows teams to push up on us as nobody wants to go in behind. 

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I don’t think Tagawa has shown anything to suggest he deserves to be staring games but if SN is wanting the ball played forward and quickly then Boyce is not the man!  Takes him 4 or 5 touches to get the ball under control when others are taking 1 or 2.  I can see him being used off the bench a lot when everyone is fit, a good squad player but we really need better for starting game and playing at a higher tempo. 

We need to play to Tagawas strengths though, balls over the top or in behind. Motherwell dropped 20 yards when Tagawa came on and Shankland found more space, Boyce didn’t though. 

[Mr Rabbit]

😂 Tagawa has actually done FA so far. Shankland despite being poorer on Saturday occupied their three hammer throwing centre backs. Boyce scored one and set up another.

 

How much space are folk thinking we’ll get from St Mirren who will play a back 5 when we have the ball?! 
 

Tbf on Tagawa we’ve not played teams which we could utilise that space better. I’d be more inclined to use him against Celtic, Rangers and Hibs who actually will push up and offer space in behind.

[Wee Mikey]

12 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

It is a long journey aswell buddy , 3 bloody trains

 

You bet! (Guessing that's 3 trains each way = 6).

 

Four buses (plus a bit of 🚶‍♂️) for me and my compadre. A win and it'll be a breeze. A defeat? The walk from their stadium up to the local bus to Buchanan St, and then a late bus to Embra, followed by a 🚶‍♂️home would test my resolve.

 

But, no doubt, even should that transpire, I'll be totally regenerated for both the trip to Killie on Thu 26th and Ross Co on Sat 30th (tickets secured).

 

But, have bus pass, will travel.

 

Following Hearts is a roller-coaster. It's all part of the fun, though.

 

Ps ... you must be the only deeply embedded Hibby to have travelled to Trondheim ... 🤣🤣🤣

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Aye 6 trains in total buddy galashiels to Edinburgh, Edinburgh to Glasgow and Glasgow to paisley and reverse on way back ! 1st ever time to paisley on train for me , usually either supporters bus or car

[DS98]

40 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I don’t think Tagawa has shown anything to suggest he deserves to be staring games but if SN is wanting the ball played forward and quickly then Boyce is not the man!  Takes him 4 or 5 touches to get the ball under control when others are taking 1 or 2.  I can see him being used off the bench a lot when everyone is fit, a good squad player but we really need better for starting game and playing at a higher tempo. 

I disagree. But that opinions for you. 

[Diadora Van Basten]

Same team as Saturday if possible.

 

If Oda is injured I would move Vargas to the right and play Lowry on the left.

[Cruyff]

10 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

😂 Tagawa has actually done FA so far. Shankland despite being poorer on Saturday occupied their three hammer throwing centre backs. Boyce scored one and set up another.

 

How much space are folk thinking we’ll get from St Mirren who will play a back 5 when we have the ball?! 
 

Tbf on Tagawa we’ve not played teams which we could utilise that space better. I’d be more inclined to use him against Celtic, Rangers and Hibs who actually will push up and offer space in behind.

It'll be Shanks & Boyce v St Mirren but one issue with playing both is that they like to get involved in the build up. Two strikers with their backs to goal playing CM allows their defence to keep their shape and hold their line. St Mirren are less comfortable with someone that's constantly looking to run in behind. 

 

Sometimes you need a Striker that is sharp in small spaces and forces Defenders to face their own goal more often. Tagawa is a different option, something we need. 

[BelgeJambo]

We buried the bogey of this ground by winning twice two season ago and I don’t think we lost there last season.

 

get them skelped Hearts

 

Shankland is overdue a Hatrick

[Baxfee]

2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

You can add that to all the other yellow cards you imagined him getting...

Thanks for the informative conversation 

[gar jambo]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

We need to play to Tagawas strengths though, balls over the top or in behind. Motherwell dropped 20 yards when Tagawa came on and Shankland found more space, Boyce didn’t though. 

Correct remember Ida did not get a game for months got to give him until Christmas to settle down ! 

[GinRummy]

47 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Same team as Saturday if possible.

 

If Oda is injured I would move Vargas to the right and play Lowry on the left.

Forrest looked ok when he came on, I’d probably stick with that tbh. Lowry on the bench. 
 

I’m far from convinced by Forrest but like Oda and Vargas he works hard to win the ball when needed. I like that and we need to win more balls higher up the pitch. 

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, gar jambo said:

Correct remember Ida did not get a game for months got to give him until Christmas to settle down ! 

We seem to be playing to his and Vargas strengths a little bit more, especially if teams are pushing up then balls over or through the defence will exploit that. 

[gar jambo]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

We seem to be playing to his and Vargas strengths a little bit more, especially if teams are pushing up then balls over or through the defence will exploit that. 

Correct I agree suppose Horses for courses ehh but vargas settled in well but could still have a bad patch 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Mr Rabbit said:

😂 Tagawa has actually done FA so far. Shankland despite being poorer on Saturday occupied their three hammer throwing centre backs. Boyce scored one and set up another.

 

How much space are folk thinking we’ll get from St Mirren who will play a back 5 when we have the ball?! 
 

Tbf on Tagawa we’ve not played teams which we could utilise that space better. I’d be more inclined to use him against Celtic, Rangers and Hibs who actually will push up and offer space in behind.

They don’t play as deep all the time at home against us, a quick transition or winning the ball higher up the park is more likely without two slow guys playing in the same position. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, gar jambo said:

Correct I agree suppose Horses for courses ehh but vargas settled in well but could still have a bad patch 

Im looking for him to go from strength to strength now tbh. 

[Turkishcap]

Our crowds and our budget should mean 3 points.

Am I confident, no.

See how I feel as days go by.

[chrystaf]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

They don’t play as deep all the time at home against us, a quick transition or winning the ball higher up the park is more likely without two slow guys playing in the same position. 

Agree.  We won't get the luxury of time on the ball and a dodgy defence as we did on Saturday. They will press us and we will need to be "up for it". 

[Sooks]

5 hours ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Haring was very lucky not to be booked again for that daft tackle on the edge of the box. Luckily Clancy played advantage and VAR couldn't intervene as it wasn't in the box.

Clancy booked him very harshly for the first yellow and he probably realised that himself when it came to the second , especially since it looked like he got contact on the ball 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

3 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Are you actually being serious?  It was a professional foul from behind, taking one for the team.  He knew exactly what he was doing and was a yellow card 100 times out of 100.

What the first one? If so why did Shinnie and another Aberdeen player not get booked for similar fouls in the next 5 minutes. 

 

Have a word with yourself, serious

[Mr Elwood P]

 

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Clancy booked him very harshly for the first yellow and he probably realised that himself when it came to the second , especially since it looked like he got contact on the ball 

Staggering analysis. The first is a booking all day long. See that booking in almost every football match you watch. 2nd foul he's saved by advantage being played.

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Staggering analysis. The first is a booking all day long. See that booking in almost every football match you watch. 2nd foul he's saved by advantage being played.

No as staggered as it leaves you , that first booking was not worth a booking at all . Second one he touched the ball I think 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

No as staggered as it leaves you , that first booking was not worth a booking at all . Second one he touched the ball I think 

It's not even a debatable decision. It's a booking. Watch more football matches.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Mr Elwood P