*** Official St Mirren v Heart Of Midlothian thread ***

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Tough away fixture this one because they've started season well but hard fought 2-1 victory for us Shankland and Vargas 

[Sooks]

This should be a bit of a statement in terms of our season . Pains me to give that club any praise at all and the football that they play is honking . It is already at this early stage in the season a game where we can dramatically improve our chances of third though . Lose it and we are quite a distance off it . Win it and it puts down a marker 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

This should be a bit of a statement in terms of our season . Pains me to give that club any praise at all and the football that they play is honking . It is already at this early stage in the season a game where we can dramatically improve our chances of third though . Lose it and we are quite a distance off it . Win it and it puts down a marker 

They'll do their usual kick us off the park and their fans will be angry as usual

[Sooks]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

They'll do their usual kick us off the park and their fans will be angry as usual

Their trademark . Dirty antifootball to a soundtrack of crimson faced middle aged men screeching about the injustice of it all 

[Sooks]

St Mirren seem to be fated to always me hanging around when things are not going well for us . It is starting to get a bit annoying actually

 

The obvious one from the 80s

The League Cup final 

The demotion

Neilsons arse collapse

 

This needs to stop being a thing . Just go there and put things right please Hearts 

[Debut 4]

23 minutes ago, Sooks said:

This should be a bit of a statement in terms of our season . Pains me to give that club any praise at all and the football that they play is honking . It is already at this early stage in the season a game where we can dramatically improve our chances of third though . Lose it and we are quite a distance off it . Win it and it puts down a marker 

Aye.  We can’t keep making excuses and waiting for us to start getting into some kind of form. 

 

Of course, things can go against you but at a minimum we need to see a strong performance.  If we have any minerals about us we’ll see a Hearts team hungry to get out there and impose themselves.  
 

I don’t want to keep hearing “one down after 20” or “no shots on target after half an hour”…..it’s something that litters alot of our away performances over the years.  
 

We really need to be stronger mentally and look to play with more courage from the start.  We’ll face a tough opponent who won’t just let us play.

 

Like at home, we need to out-will who we face and that takes resilience and persistence from the off. 

[haj]

On Saturday it looked like we were beginning to turn a corner. St Mirren will show whether or not this is the case. Absolutely no reason this squad can’t get all three points next week.

[The Black Prince]

I saw highlights of their game against MW. Not impressed, but highlights can be misleading.

 

If MW's finishing had been just slightly better - different result.

 

Hearts can definitely win this.

[OTT]

After the Dundee and Motherwell results, we absolutely need to be getting all 3 points. 

 

Don't give them any free kicks around the box if possible, IIRC Strain can score them for fun, and if we give St Mirren anything they will become like Killie to break down. 

 

What are the thoughts on the team?

 

Zander

Atkinson Kent Rowles Kingsley

Devlin Haring

Oda Shanks Vargas

Tagawa*

 

*If Tagawa is injured, then Boyce into the 10 and Shanks as the striker 

 

Kind of prefer a back 3 to get Sibbick into the team though. Gives us the ability to properly build from the back and have a CB that can carry the ball. 

[Cruyff]

                Clark 

Natty Kent Rowles Kingsley

            Devlin Hoff

Oda.        Boycie.      Vargas

                Shanks

 

2-0 Hearts

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

11 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

                Clark 

Natty Kent Rowles Kingsley

            Devlin Hoff

Oda.        Boycie.      Vargas

                Shanks

 

2-0 Hearts

Like look of that team 

[Ex member of the SaS]

They are unbeaten so we need to change that. Lets be the team to bust their bubble and set down a marker for third.

[May one-six]

I'd like to see us have some sort of strategy that exploits their weaknesses and gives us the best chance of winning. I may be wrong, but I get the impression that we go to places like St Mirren having given absolutely no thought to the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition and no plan in place to counter/exploit these. We seem to have an arrogant attitude that we can rock up there and let them worry about us. The recent debacle at Dundee and countless other away games over the years suggests that's a mindset doomed to failure. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

22 minutes ago, May one-six said:

I'd like to see us have some sort of strategy that exploits their weaknesses and gives us the best chance of winning. I may be wrong, but I get the impression that we go to places like St Mirren having given absolutely no thought to the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition and no plan in place to counter/exploit these. We seem to have an arrogant attitude that we can rock up there and let them worry about us. The recent debacle at Dundee and countless other away games over the years suggests that's a mindset doomed to failure. 

Quite the opposite in my opinion! Far too many times we set up negatively worrying about the opposition 

[PTBCAL]

37 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Like look of that team 

Will Oda be fit? Pulled his hammy no? Could be a number of weeks out if he has torn it 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, PTBCAL said:

Will Oda be fit? Pulled his hammy no? Could be a number of weeks out if he has torn it 

Looked like hamstring injury to me aswell 

[Carl Fredrickson]

Our away form has been dreadful for years and I cant see that changing at the weekend.

 

They are well drilled in how to stop other teams playing and play as a team to their gameplan. I cant see us coming away with anything better than a draw though would be delighted with a win!

[pettigrewsstylist]

With their form over last 12 months at home, this would be a marker.

90 mins away performance would be a good start. A deserved point would be progress.

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, PTBCAL said:

Will Oda be fit? Pulled his hammy no? Could be a number of weeks out if he has torn it 

Did someone not say Naismith said it was only a slight concern and he was taken off as a precaution 

[JimmyCant]

Bit early for a match thread for a game that doesn’t take place until December 23rd 😊

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, JimmyCant said:

Bit early for a match thread for a game that doesn’t take place until December 23rd 😊

🤣🤣 you're right, sorry mods could you change the teams around please?

[Tommy Brown]

Certainly don't want to be losing this one.

All about performance for me.

We set the minimum benchmark on Saturday, please don't drop to Dundee away levels.

The game is there to be won and get the season properly rolling.

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, Tommy Brown said:

Certainly don't want to be losing this one.

All about performance for me.

We set the minimum benchmark on Saturday, please don't drop to Dundee away levels.

The game is there to be won and get the season properly rolling.

Probably our main rival for 3rd as it looks at the moment. I’d probably take a point as long as the effort and intent to actually win the game is there

[TheBigO]

Everyone is correct in that this is a very big test.  Saturday means nothing from a tactical sense, well not really.  It'll have been brilliant for confidence, which is massive.

 

But it's a very different test.  Said it in the last week or two, SNs approach looked good last season but nearly all his games were against teams who will try to play against us and that suits us as we're about being in your face and positive - working turnovers well, without quite being a counter-attack team.

 

A team who sits and let us have the ball - as St Mirren did in Naismith's only really bad game - is a different proposition and one we haven't worked out this season either.

 

It's as "simple" as earning territory.  We need to play our passes 20/30 yards futher up the park.  There are ways of doing this, Ange's Cetic did it by sheer speed of movement - men and ball, they buzzed all over and moved teams around - we can do that with Oda and Vargas coming in field and Atkinson and Kingsley being very involved.  Or you can be more direct. Hit Shanks and Boyce's chests and play off them, make their midfield need to sit on top of those two and earn that space in front of them - hit the ball down channels a bit for the wingers too - get them turning.  Let's not have the ball being passed around 40 yards out from our own goal.  We have to commit them, somehow.

 

Very very interested to see how we try to handle it.  At the very heart of it, we need to do things at pace, no matter how we do it.  Move the ball quicker, be more positive in our runs.

 

Also v interested to see who we have back - hopefully Oda OK - and who we play CM: has Newy earnt a start?  

 

I unfortunately didn't make Saturday (kids man!!!) but watched it on Hearts TV and was really interesting to hear Craigy Gordon make a point of saying how good Newy had been in training all week - he was very complimentary about him.  Another good week, on top of doing pretty well yesterday, we may see him thrown in.

Edited September 18, 2023 by TheBigO

[chrisyboy7]

So unpredictable...I expect zero....away form is horrific...let's hope it changes this season 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

After the Dundee and Motherwell results, we absolutely need to be getting all 3 points. 

 

Don't give them any free kicks around the box if possible, IIRC Strain can score them for fun, and if we give St Mirren anything they will become like Killie to break down. 

 

What are the thoughts on the team?

 

Zander

Atkinson Kent Rowles Kingsley

Devlin Haring

Oda Shanks Vargas

Tagawa*

 

*If Tagawa is injured, then Boyce into the 10 and Shanks as the striker 

 

Kind of prefer a back 3 to get Sibbick into the team though. Gives us the ability to properly build from the back and have a CB that can carry the ball. 

How can you have watched Liam Boyce on Saturday and dropped him for Tagawa? Mental. 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, chrisyboy7 said:

So unpredictable...I expect zero....away form is horrific...let's hope it changes this season 

We've won 2 Premiership games this season. 1 home. 1 away.

[Chambie15]

3 hours ago, Sooks said:

St Mirren seem to be fated to always me hanging around when things are not going well for us . It is starting to get a bit annoying actually

 

The obvious one from the 80s

The League Cup final 

The demotion

Neilsons arse collapse

 

This needs to stop being a thing . Just go there and put things right please Hearts 

This 👆

[May one-six]

42 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Quite the opposite in my opinion! Far too many times we set up negatively worrying about the opposition 

We've certainly not had a policy of looking to exploit any weaknesses in the opposition. If we have then we've been piss poor in executing it.

[wavydavy]

3 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Aye.  We can’t keep making excuses and waiting for us to start getting into some kind of form. 

 

Of course, things can go against you but at a minimum we need to see a strong performance.  If we have any minerals about us we’ll see a Hearts team hungry to get out there and impose themselves.  
 

I don’t want to keep hearing “one down after 20” or “no shots on target after half an hour”…..it’s something that litters alot of our away performances over the years.  
 

We really need to be stronger mentally and look to play with more courage from the start.  We’ll face a tough opponent who won’t just let us play.

 

Like at home, we need to out-will who we face and that takes resilience and persistence from the off. 

 

I watched the highlights of them v Motherwell and they were outclassed by some lovely football from Motherwell and Robinson admitted that they were not great by their current standards.

 

They still came away with three points at a ground where we struggle so they are a very hard team to beat.

 

We know what they will do. They chase and niggle all ove the park and are in the refs face the whole game. They dive and roll about trying to get players booked but they get away with it.

 

They hit on the break and that is how they won their game on Saturday so we need to be alert to this and keep our cool and not fall for their baiting tactics.

 

We have better players than them and if we stay calm and play our style we will beat them.

[Baxfee]

Wouldn’t start with haring as he is getting booked too easily. Give Hoff a start, don’t play beni (for protection reasons), and haring to come on late 2nd half if required. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1-1

 

Rowles

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Robinson does very well with what he has got, no idealist, a pragmatist. Tough game for us, but high time the feeble away performances ended. If that means we should be pragmatic rather than idealistic, so be it.

[GorgieFifeLife]

48 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

How can you have watched Liam Boyce on Saturday and dropped him for Tagawa? Mental. 

Not agreeing with the team selection but we need to employ different tactics to overcome different opposition especially away from home so not really mental. 

[Mr Elwood P]

21 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

Wouldn’t start with haring as he is getting booked too easily. Give Hoff a start, don’t play beni (for protection reasons), and haring to come on late 2nd half if required. 

Glad you did you research here... First card since May, booked too easily. Prime  JKB.

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, GorgieFifeLife said:

Not agreeing with the team selection but we need to employ different tactics to overcome different opposition especially away from home so not really mental. 

What type of tactics would require dropping Boyce after scoring his first goal for years?

[GorgieFifeLife]

23 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

Wouldn’t start with haring as he is getting booked too easily. Give Hoff a start, don’t play beni (for protection reasons), and haring to come on late 2nd half if required. 

I wouldn’t give him a start because he is not good enough anymore.  

[GorgieFifeLife]

1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

What type of tactics would require dropping Boyce after scoring his first goal for years?

If we decided to be more solid away from home and hit them with pace on the counter.  Losing the first goal away from home kills us.  It may not be pretty but in these games we need to win the battle first and we do not do that at the moment.

[DS98]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

What type of tactics would require dropping Boyce after scoring his first goal for years?

Correct. On this seasons showing you’d sooner drop Shankland than Boyce. 

[Robbo-Jambo]

1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Looked like hamstring injury to me aswell 

FFS. Every season we seem to have constant injuries.

[Famous 1874]

A win here and maybe we have actually turned a corner. 
 

We often get bullied by them. 

[OTT]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

How can you have watched Liam Boyce on Saturday and dropped him for Tagawa? Mental. 

 

Its the pace (or lack of). Not starting doesn't mean not playing, really pleased to see Boyce looking solid and back to looking like the player we first brought to the club. 

 

Its not a slight on him at all, just looking to see if we can use Tagawas pace. Really like to look of him, but he needs to get a run to build up some form IMO.

 

If St Mirren just plan to sit in though, Boyce might be the better call. 

[Prehen]

3 hours ago, OTT said:

After the Dundee and Motherwell results, we absolutely need to be getting all 3 points. 

 

Don't give them any free kicks around the box if possible, IIRC Strain can score them for fun, and if we give St Mirren anything they will become like Killie to break down. 

 

What are the thoughts on the team?

 

Zander

Atkinson Kent Rowles Kingsley

Devlin Haring

Oda Shanks Vargas

Tagawa*

 

*If Tagawa is injured, then Boyce into the 10 and Shanks as the striker 

 

Kind of prefer a back 3 to get Sibbick into the team though. Gives us the ability to properly build from the back and have a CB that can carry the ball. 

What happened ODA on Saturday? Noted he came off and as you say some doubt over Tagawa. I do hope none are more serious than knocks and precautionary.

[Cruickie's Moustache]

As some have said the issue is how we play against teams that park the bus.

 

We know we can keep possession all day long if need be but, like the latter stages of the Motherwell game just firing endless crosses into the box isn't going to get us goals.

 

We have to hit them hard and fast when in transition to stop them being able to settle into their defensive set ups.

 

If they do get into the two banks of 5 then we just have to have the courage to attack them directly now and again.

 

By that I mean just having guys brave enough to take the ball through the inside channels and give the defense something to think about as opposed to always heading out to the wing.

 

Some of the play with wee triangles and 1-2s on Saturday showed we can do it when we want to.

 

I like Boyce but do wonder if for a game like this Grant (given the way he finished against Aberdeen) might be a better option in terms of speed of attack. 

 

 

 

[OTT]

Just now, Prehen said:

What happened ODA on Saturday? Noted he came off and as you say some doubt over Tagawa. I do hope none are more serious than knocks and precautionary.

 

I'm not too sure, really pleased to see Oda getting eyes for goal now though!! Noted under Robbie he seemed much more hesitant about taking the shot on. 

 

Fingers crossed he's fit for St Mirren!!

[OTT]

Just now, Cruickie's Moustache said:

As some have said the issue is how we play against teams that park the bus.

 

We know we can keep possession all day long if need be but, like the latter stages of the Motherwell game just firing endless crosses into the box isn't going to get us goals.

 

We have to hit them hard and fast when in transition to stop them being able to settle into their defensive set ups.

 

If they do get into the two banks of 5 then we just have to have the courage to attack them directly now and again.

 

By that I mean just having guys brave enough to take the ball through the inside channels and give the defense something to think about as opposed to always heading out to the wing.

 

Some of the play with wee triangles and 1-2s on Saturday showed we can do it when we want to.

 

I like Boyce but do wonder if for a game like this Grant (given the way he finished against Aberdeen) might be a better option in terms of speed of attack. 

 

 

 

 

Majority of goals are scored by losing the ball in your own half. 

 

Makes me wonder if we need to try and create transitions to force St Mirren out. Possession based against a team sitting in doesn't seem to work for us. Not taking enough shots on, and not creating enough chances. Against Motherwell in the 2nd half, we kind of experienced that, for all the effort and endeavour to try and find an equaliser, we couldn't. Big issue for me is that there isn't enough of a quality gulf between ourselves and these teams. They can match us for large portions of the match, and we need to find a way of playing which gets through their hyper defensive set ups. 

 

Appreciate its a bit of a dangerous game to be doing that, but with Devlins workrate in midfield, I would back him all the way to win the ball back in their half more often than not. 

[MattyK82]

26 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

A win here and maybe we have actually turned a corner. 
 

We often get bullied by them. 

Interestingly, out of the last 8 matches v them, we have won 5, drawn 2 and only lost 1 (the one right before Robbie got sacked).

[Sooks]

7 minutes ago, Cruickie's Moustache said:

As some have said the issue is how we play against teams that park the bus.

 

We know we can keep possession all day long if need be but, like the latter stages of the Motherwell game just firing endless crosses into the box isn't going to get us goals.

 

We have to hit them hard and fast when in transition to stop them being able to settle into their defensive set ups.

 

If they do get into the two banks of 5 then we just have to have the courage to attack them directly now and again.

 

By that I mean just having guys brave enough to take the ball through the inside channels and give the defense something to think about as opposed to always heading out to the wing.

 

Some of the play with wee triangles and 1-2s on Saturday showed we can do it when we want to.

 

I like Boyce but do wonder if for a game like this Grant (given the way he finished against Aberdeen) might be a better option in terms of speed of attack. 

 

 

 

This is how I feel too . Teams that sit off when we are in our half and then press as soon as we cross the half way line but keep a deep defensive line have been our undoing for a while now and arguably it was Robinson and his antifootball garbage that exposed our weaknesses in that department and it has been that way since . When we scored earlyish vs Aberdeen they could not just sit back entirely and we were always going to get chances 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

This is how I feel too . Teams that sit off when we are in our half and then press as soon as we cross the half way line but keep a deep defensive line have been our undoing for a while now and arguably it was Robinson and his antifootball garbage that exposed our weaknesses in that department and it has been that way since . When we scored earlyish vs Aberdeen they could not just sit back entirely and we were always going to get chances 

 

Starting games as slowly as we did last season really didn't help matters either. Gives the opposition too much time to settle into the game, when we should be going hell for leather to not let that happen and try and force an early goal to take Robinsons anti football approach off the table. 

 

Still adamant that came from a poor approach pre-match. Players should be rearing to go, especially at home and I'm wondering if Robbies approach to preparation before the game wasn't having an impact. We've seen teams start on the front foot, and it doesn't come from being passive, which is exactly what we were last season. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

We've won 2 Premiership games this season. 1 home. 1 away.

Yes, our home form has been pretty pish too!  Not really sure what your point is?  Did you see our performance at Dundee?