Should Steven Naismith be sacked? ( merged )

[gregzy2k7]

40 minutes ago, Rick James said:

For me, no. I don't believe he deserves to be 'sacked' as in have his employment at the club completely terminated. Do I want him as head coach? That's a different question.

 

The worst part about this situation is that I really don't know who to point the finger out. Is Naismith the one at fault? Or is it McAvoy? Or is it both? We saw a real tune out the players when Naismith was interim last season, and it's all gone flat again. Part of me says, well clearly he's not getting the opportunity to influence things fully the way he intends. Will that change in the coming days and weeks? Who knows.

 

The whole set up is a massive shit show and I don't necessarily blame Naismith one bit. It's ultimately another batshit poor decision by the club.

 

I can tell you exactly who you should point the finger at - The chairwoman (Budge) the CEO (McKinley) and the sporting Director (Savage) those 3 are ultimately responsible for appointing our shit show of a management team.

[hearts00]

Naismith will probably get to the Killie game at least if not the RC game. 
 

No wins by then will be 7 matches outside the OF without a win. That is a sacking offence all day long at Hearts. 
 

I have little confidence he will turn it round. 

[feej]

2 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

Naismith will probably get to the Killie game at least if not the RC game. 
 

No wins by then will be 7 matches outside the OF without a win. That is a sacking offence all day long at Hearts. 
 

I have little confidence he will turn it round. 

I'm not sure how he will turn it around, where is the spark going to come from? Watching the recent performances I have my doubts.

[Aussie Jambo]

Embarrassing. 

[Rudy T]

If they do go and a new man appointed he'll be asking where the **** the midfielders are. Would be good to hear the pub landlords explanation, probably along the lines of he forgot while he was getting smashed on Euro jolly’s and chasing the women’s team manager.

[Hearts1975]

38 minutes ago, Rick James said:

For me, no. I don't believe he deserves to be 'sacked' as in have his employment at the club completely terminated. Do I want him as head coach? That's a different question.

 

The worst part about this situation is that I really don't know who to point the finger out. Is Naismith the one at fault? Or is it McAvoy? Or is it both? We saw a real tune out the players when Naismith was interim last season, and it's all gone flat again. Part of me says, well clearly he's not getting the opportunity to influence things fully the way he intends. Will that change in the coming days and weeks? Who knows.

 

The whole set up is a massive shit show and I don't necessarily blame Naismith one bit. It's ultimately another batshit poor decision by the club.

Some sense being spoken now 

I remember when the licence stuff first raised its head out the blue and thinking why was there no mention of this at Am's presser right after Robbie left 

 

It felt like the board has been blindsided announcing the role changes after the interim appt 

I wasn't against the appt with Naismith, not at all.

When I saw some of the football being played last season, there were signs, lacking a bit of consistency.

I genuinely thought, after a full pre season, watch us motor

 

Sadly, for whatever reason, that hasnt happened 

 

The backroom team of Gordy and Frankie was shuffled together, right out the ballot box.

 

Next 4 games for me are pivotal. Naismith might not even be calling the shots at the moment behind the scenes. That could very well be the reality of it all. Ah well, I'm sure Frankie boy will let his pal Joe know who is really at fault for what's happening now. 

 

This might end up being the first manager we ever get rid of, and he was never the actual manager in the first place. 

 

This is on the board. Talk about doing everything you can to set someone up to fail. Has remnants of the Stendal situation on this all over again. 

 

The board need to clarify their own position in all of this. Not good enough, and not by a long shot. 

 

[Sinbad the Sailor]

Don't know why I bothered looking in. After every defeat its meltdown 😱

 

It's not the board or management team. It's the players.

[Shanks]

Is naismith even the manager?

 

Just sack the lot of them, including the ***** with the stopwatch and the bevvy merchant. 

[Rudy T]

5 hours ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Who is saying no?Hibs fans?🤣🤣

One is definitely Liam Fox he knows he’s next in line and doesn’t want to touch it!

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Is this another poll closed already for a full capture of the kneejerk voters, coming home raging from the game?

 

Shouldn't be allowed

[EIEIO]

5 hours ago, David McCaig said:

Simple question if you think its too early to ask the question answer no.

 

For me, its time to go, he doesn't have the experience, there has been no bounce from the players and its time for the Board to make a proper externally recruited appointment.

 

The club has to end this farce now.

 

Another "just along the corridor" appointment , like Levein after Robbie left for MK Dons. Neilson was only brought back because he'd been here before and fitted in. The least said about Levein's protégé Cathro the better.

We have no idea how to recruit a manager Stendel is the only outsider we've touched and that was a labourious appointment with his predecessor hanging around like a bad smell to undermine him.

Even our CEO McKinlay only got the job because his wife worked just along the corridor at Tynecastle. 

[weegie jambo]

I like Naismith, what's to say we can't bin McAvoy and bring in a coach above Naismith whilst he gains his badges. Still think he can be a good influence in the dugout. 

[stirlo]

21 minutes ago, Sinbad the Sailor said:

Don't know why I bothered looking in. After every defeat its meltdown 😱

 

It's not the board or management team. It's the players.

 

There was a time back in the day when people blamed the players, but at a certain point it switched and football fans everywhere starting blaming the manager for everything and pretty much absolving players of any blame. It's a weird phenomenon as it just doesn't seem particularly rational.

 

As for Naismith, any talk of sacking him is ridiculous at this stage - and in any case, until we sort the recruitment out it wouldn't matter if we had Pep Guardiola or Klopp in charge.

[Rudy T]

5 minutes ago, stirlo said:

 

There was a time back in the day when people blamed the players, but at a certain point it switched and football fans everywhere starting blaming the manager for everything and pretty much absolving players of any blame. It's a weird phenomenon as it just doesn't seem particularly rational.

 

As for Naismith, any talk of sacking him is ridiculous at this stage - and in any case, until we sort the recruitment out it wouldn't matter if we had Pep Guardiola or Klopp in charge.

The players certainly deserve a lot of criticism, but to suggest a better manager couldn’t do better just isn’t true. 
 

Players are like robots these days, coaches and managers build patterns of play for them, organise them in formations and drill them to be in certain positions for attacks and defending, set the press and generally take any sort of freedom away from the players. If the communication of these tactics is poor or the players are unable to carry out these instructions then it’s on the coaches I’m afraid. My biggest criticism of Neilson was the players were over coached and as a result no one took any responsibility to carry the fight to the opponents.

 

We’re so easy to play against, that’s Killie and Motherwell come to Tynecastle with a 5-3-2 type formation, let us have the ball then step up and take it away from us and launch a counterattack while comfortable we aren’t going to break them down so long as they stay in their shape. We should be flattered really that teams show us this amount of respect!

[blairdin]

If Naismith was considered a good enough coach to be part of Steve Clarke's Scotland set up, he's good enough to be part of our first team set up.

 

Head coach though - not for me. I hoped we'd appoint a new and experienced manager that Naismith could work under and learn from. For me that is now a must. 

 

If Chris Wilder is back kicking around Edinburgh after his stint helping out Watford, we should be on the phone to him without delay. Not a sexy appointment, but it's exactly the kind of appointment that I think is needed. 

 

[Ferryjambo99]

14 minutes ago, weegie jambo said:

I like Naismith, what's to say we can't bin McAvoy and bring in a coach above Naismith whilst he gains his badges. Still think he can be a good influence in the dugout. 

 

For me we've been guilty of keeping guys around after sackings, and things haven't improved. No way naismith stays on under anyone else. 

We need a clean break and a completely new coaching team/setup

[stirlo]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

The players certainly deserve a lot of criticism, but to suggest a better manager couldn’t do better just isn’t true. 
 

Players are like robots these days, coaches and managers build patterns of play for them, organise them in formations and drill them to be in certain positions for attacks and defending, set the press and generally take any sort of freedom away from the players. If the communication of these tactics is poor or the players are unable to carry out these instructions then it’s on the coaches I’m afraid. My biggest criticism of Neilson was the players were over coached and as a result no one took any responsibility to carry the fight to the opponents.

 

We’re so easy to play against, that’s Killie and Motherwell come to Tynecastle with a 5-3-2 type formation, let us have the ball then step up and take it away from us and launch a counterattack while comfortable we aren’t going to break them down so long as they stay in their shape. We should be flattered really that teams show us this amount of respect!

 

The reality is we have very few players in that squad who can unlock a defence whichever formation we play. Until we sort out the recruitment I just think we're fooling ourselves by putting all the focus on the manager.

[Rudy T]

Just now, stirlo said:

 

The reality is we have very few players in that squad who can unlock a defence whichever formation we play. Until we sort out the recruitment I just think we're fooling ourselves by putting all the focus on the manager.

I certainly don’t disagree with that recruitment is a joke. However we’re stuck with what we’ve got so we need a coach who can get the best out of them, and the 3 wise men don’t look like they’ve got that ability.

[hearts00]

1 hour ago, feej said:

I'm not sure how he will turn it around, where is the spark going to come from? Watching the recent performances I have my doubts.

Not even got Barrie McKay who on his day can just produce something in an otherwise anonymous. 
 

We’re in big trouble. 

[Turkishcap]

Only 2 games I have seen on tv are our 2 home Euro games where we looked ok to good but you guys are seeing it all.

What I do know though with our budget we have blown the chance to have 12 points from 4 winnable games.

 

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, Turkishcap said:

Only 2 games I have seen on tv are our 2 home Euro games where we looked ok to good but you guys are seeing it all.

What I do know though with our budget we have blown the chance to have 12 points from 4 winnable games.

 

 

The games we've been given to start the league campaign off have been an absolute gift. So many times in years gone by we've had one of the OF straight off the bat. 

 

Completely squandered what should have been a solid start. 

[Ulysses]

 

6 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

A staggering amount of revisionism from posters saying he should never have been appointed. The same posters who gave @Tom Hardy’s Dug a hard time are now rushing to agree with him. 

 

As I recall, there were others who got a hard time back in May for suggesting that maybe the ****ing board needed to do a bit of thinking before jumping in with both feet and making this particular appointment.

 

 

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Not all posters. Some of us thought appointing a Lowland League manager with only  7 games experience outside that league was a ludicrous decision. And said so.

 

Indeed, some of us did, and much good did that do.

 

Two pages into this thread, and I can already count over 20 posters who are engaging in exactly the kind of revisionism that @Des Lynam is talking about.  These are all people who bounded aboard the "Naisy train" without a care in the world back in May, and who are now happy to line up to say he should be sacked.

 

WADR, you wanted it, by a ****ing HUGE margin as expressed in a poll on this board, and the least you should do now is own it.  In fairness, at least one or two of you have been honourable enough to stick to your guns and say Naismith should be given more time or a better set-up.  I don't agree with you, but fair play to you for being consistent in your views and not flip-flopping because of a handful of results.  As for everyone else, it would be nice to see one or two people put their hands up and say that they've changed their minds and why.

[AC Mallin_51]

43 minutes ago, blairdin said:

If Naismith was considered a good enough coach to be part of Steve Clarke's Scotland set up, he's good enough to be part of our first team set up.

 

Head coach though - not for me. I hoped we'd appoint a new and experienced manager that Naismith could work under and learn from. For me that is now a must. 

 

If Chris Wilder is back kicking around Edinburgh after his stint helping out Watford, we should be on the phone to him without delay. Not a sexy appointment, but it's exactly the kind of appointment that I think is needed. 

 

Chris wilder would be one of the best appointments we’ve made in a very long time. I really wish we had tried to get him in the first place 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

1 hour ago, weegie jambo said:

I like Naismith, what's to say we can't bin McAvoy and bring in a coach above Naismith whilst he gains his badges. Still think he can be a good influence in the dugout. 

 

I like this idea, but would be on your wish list?

[ScoPo]

That article on the club website about taking time to reflect make me cringe. 

 

It is embarrassing for a club of our stature to be involved in such nonsense as that which we have witnessed in the past month.   

 

Enough is enough.   

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Look at the sheer volume of rational posts / posters after the poll was once again time limited to whatever the OP specified

 

You have to choose that, it's not Automatic

[ScoPo]

35 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

The games we've been given to start the league campaign off have been an absolute gift. So many times in years gone by we've had one of the OF straight off the bat. 

 

Completely squandered what should have been a solid start. 

This is also a very good point.  This has been far from a baptism of fire situation.  

 

If this is allowed to carry on things are going to get messy .   We can avoid that by just doing the right thing now.  

[davemclaren]

19 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

As I recall, there were others who got a hard time back in May for suggesting that maybe the ****ing board needed to do a bit of thinking before jumping in with both feet and making this particular appointment.

 

 

 

Indeed, some of us did, and much good did that do.

 

Two pages into this thread, and I can already count over 20 posters who are engaging in exactly the kind of revisionism that @Des Lynam is talking about.  These are all people who bounded aboard the "Naisy train" without a care in the world back in May, and who are now happy to line up to say he should be sacked.

 

WADR, you wanted it, by a ****ing HUGE margin as expressed in a poll on this board, and the least you should do now is own it.  In fairness, at least one or two of you have been honourable enough to stick to your guns and say Naismith should be given more time or a better set-up.  I don't agree with you, but fair play to you for being consistent in your views and not flip-flopping because of a handful of results.  As for everyone else, it would be nice to see one or two people put their hands up and say that they've changed their minds and why.

Apart from giving you a bit of short term Schadenfreude pleasure where does that take us? 😀 I wasn't overly positive about the Naysmith appointment but I think it's a bit early to be getting rid of him. Ask me again in a months time though. 

[Aussie Jambo]

When will we learn? Mr Laptop (epic fail) now the unqualified/qualified youth management. FFS we needed a proper manager and probably not from Scotland either. This is only going to get worse as the current management is way out of its depth. No offence to Naisy who is a jambo legend. Like asking a bank clerk to manage a multi billion financial company. It’s just not feasible. It’s just not working and we all know it. 

Fix it now. Put the guys back to helping the youth and move on. 

[Ulysses]

29 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Apart from giving you a bit of short term Schadenfreude pleasure where does that take us? 😀 I wasn't overly positive about the Naysmith appointment but I think it's a bit early to be getting rid of him. Ask me again in a months time though. 

 

It doesn't give me any pleasure at all.  But the reality is that Naismith was the popular choice for the job, and I think that had a significant influence on the board.  So it's not just the board who need to own the decision, it's the 80% plus who called for it here.  They called for it, they got it, and now they have to grin and bear it.  On this thread I've seen more than 40 posters taking swipes at Naismith and the board, when they were quite happy to jump on the "Naisy train" back in May.  No doubt if we look around the other post-defeat doom threads on the board we'll find plenty of others.

 

This is a complete ****ing shitshow, and anyone who doesn't agree that it is needs to go away and not be taking the piss.  Not only that, but it could be about to get worse - let's see how we all feel at the start of October, and let's hope there isn't a hell of a lot more doom and gloom than there is right now.  And not only that, but back in May some people on this forum were worried enough and could see the potential for things to go exactly the way they're going at the moment.  As one of them, right now what I want is to be proved wrong, to discover that this is just a blip, and for Naismith to start - that's S-T-A-R-T - to show signs of succeeding.  But you are right when you say it's too early to be thinking of sacking Naismith.  Having appointed him only a couple of months ago, the board would be creating and inviting instability by sacking him now - and I'm saying that as someone who did not think he should have been appointed in the first place, at least not without a hell of a lot more thinking than the board actually did.  

 

I've no idea what the setup is at Hearts, frankly I've no idea who the other chancers are, and I'm pretty sure that 80% of JKB members would not have voted in favour of such a cuckoo bananapants way of organising the "management team".  But why pin the rap on Naismith and get rid of him?  When everyone jumped on the bandwagon back in May, what did they think they were doing?  Does anyone seriously think that it's professional to give someone a job like this and then turn on them and sack them after a handful of games in charge?  A board who should possibly have known better made what looks like the easy choice.  And a large majority of the fans cheered that choice to the rafters.  And just like a puppy is not just for Christmas, a gaffer is not just for the summer break.  We're now stuck with the choice until at least Christmas and maybe for the whole season - and as some posters have pointed out on this thread that might mean writing the season off. Writing it off yet again, that is.  My point regarding this thread and the other "kneejerk response" threads is that if this appointment turns out to be a blunder, it's not just the board who should own it and feel responsible for it.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Ulysses

[gregzy2k7]

1 hour ago, Sinbad the Sailor said:

Don't know why I bothered looking in. After every defeat its meltdown 😱

 

It's not the board or management team. It's the players.

Mate seriously, how many fecking players have we signed over the last 9 years under this regime? Not saying players are exempt from criticism, but I geniunely think in the last 9/10 years, it must be In the 100s, we seem to sign a fecking team every season, and yet nothing gets better? Oh wonder why that might be? could it be that the absolute charlatans on the board of our football club are running us like a deaf musician, Board is 100% the problem, they set the standards for the football club, they employ the people who manage those players (Naismith/Mccavoy) they also employ the people who recruit those players (Savage)

Do you see where I am going with this ? They have failed time and time again and how anyone can still support their dumbfounded decisions anymore is beyond me.

 

We could be so much more, however the people running us (mainly Budge) making us are holding us back.

 

It's a real travesty.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

32 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Apart from giving you a bit of short term Schadenfreude pleasure where does that take us? 😀 I wasn't overly positive about the Naysmith appointment but I think it's a bit early to be getting rid of him. Ask me again in a months time though. 

 

Yeah, I spent a few weeks there getting railed on her because I said I wasn't yet convinced by Naismith, now folk are acting like Naisy was somehow the board's inside candidate picked over the fans' wishes. Bah.

 

It's too soon to make a change IMO but we need to see results on the pitch. Starting by binning the 4-2-3-1 with Rowles in a back 2 would be the very first thing I would do.

[davemclaren]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

It doesn't give me any pleasure at all.  But the reality is that Naismith was the popular choice for the job, and I think that had a significant influence on the board.  So it's not just the board who need to own the decision, it's the 80% plus who called for it here.  They called for it, they got it, and now they have to grin and bear it.  On this thread I've seen more than 40 posters taking swipes at Naismith and the board, when they were quite happy to jump on the "Naisy train" back in May.  No doubt if we look around the other post-defeat doom threads on the board we'll find plenty of others.

 

This is a complete ****ing shitshow, and anyone who doesn't agree that it is needs to go away and not be taking the piss.  Not only that, but it could be about to get worse - let's see how we all feel at the start of October, and let's hope there isn't a hell of a lot more doom and gloom than there is right now.  And not only that, but back in May some people on this forum were worried enough and could see the potential for things to go exactly the way they're going at the moment.  As one of them, right now what I want is to be proved wrong, to discover that this is just a blip, and for Naismith to start - that's S-T-A-R-T - to show signs of succeeding.  But you are right when you say it's too early to be thinking of sacking Naismith.  Having appointed him only a couple of months ago, the board would be creating and inviting instability by sacking him now - and I'm saying that as someone who did not think he should have been appointed in the first place, at least not without a hell of a lot more thinking than the board actually did.  

 

I've no idea what the setup is at Hearts, frankly I've no idea who the other chancers are, and I'm pretty sure that 80% of JKB members would not have voted in favour of such a cuckoo bananapants way of organising the "management team".  But why pin the rap on Naismith and get rid of him?  When everyone jumped on the bandwagon back in May, what did they think they were doing?  Does anyone seriously think that it's professional to give someone a job like this and then turn on them and sack them after a handful of games in charge?  A board who should possibly have known better made what looks like the easy choice.  And a large majority of the fans cheered that choice to the rafters.  And just like a puppy is not just for Christmas, a gaffer is not just for the summer break.  We're now stuck with the choice until at least Christmas and maybe for the whole season - and as some posters have pointed out on this thread that might mean writing the season off. Writing it off yet again, that is.  My point regarding this thread and the other "kneejerk response" threads is that if this appointment turns out to be a blunder, it's not just the board who should own it and feel responsible for it.

 

 

 

 

However, it's good to see you haven't lost your gift for prose. 😄👍

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

However, it's good to see you haven't lost your gift for prose. 😄👍

 

It sure as hell ain't poetry.   

[gregzy2k7]

23 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

It doesn't give me any pleasure at all.  But the reality is that Naismith was the popular choice for the job, and I think that had a significant influence on the board.  So it's not just the board who need to own the decision, it's the 80% plus who called for it here.  They called for it, they got it, and now they have to grin and bear it.  On this thread I've seen more than 40 posters taking swipes at Naismith and the board, when they were quite happy to jump on the "Naisy train" back in May.  No doubt if we look around the other post-defeat doom threads on the board we'll find plenty of others.

 

This is a complete ****ing shitshow, and anyone who doesn't agree that it is needs to go away and not be taking the piss.  Not only that, but it could be about to get worse - let's see how we all feel at the start of October, and let's hope there isn't a hell of a lot more doom and gloom than there is right now.  And not only that, but back in May some people on this forum were worried enough and could see the potential for things to go exactly the way they're going at the moment.  As one of them, right now what I want is to be proved wrong, to discover that this is just a blip, and for Naismith to start - that's S-T-A-R-T - to show signs of succeeding.  But you are right when you say it's too early to be thinking of sacking Naismith.  Having appointed him only a couple of months ago, the board would be creating and inviting instability by sacking him now - and I'm saying that as someone who did not think he should have been appointed in the first place, at least not without a hell of a lot more thinking than the board actually did.  

 

I've no idea what the setup is at Hearts, frankly I've no idea who the other chancers are, and I'm pretty sure that 80% of JKB members would not have voted in favour of such a cuckoo bananapants way of organising the "management team".  But why pin the rap on Naismith and get rid of him?  When everyone jumped on the bandwagon back in May, what did they think they were doing?  Does anyone seriously think that it's professional to give someone a job like this and then turn on them and sack them after a handful of games in charge?  A board who should possibly have known better made what looks like the easy choice.  And a large majority of the fans cheered that choice to the rafters.  And just like a puppy is not just for Christmas, a gaffer is not just for the summer break.  We're now stuck with the choice until at least Christmas and maybe for the whole season - and as some posters have pointed out on this thread that might mean writing the season off. Writing it off yet again, that is.  My point regarding this thread and the other "kneejerk response" threads is that if this appointment turns out to be a blunder, it's not just the board who should own it and feel responsible for it.

 

 

 

 

Made some good points there tbf,

 

But the crust of it is the "Fans" and JKB didn't make the decision of appointing naisy and Mccavoy, that my friend lies solely with board, whether fans wanted it or not makes no difference, we are not running the football club, they are.

[Rudi5kaceldream1ng]

2 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

Some sense being spoken now 

I remember when the licence stuff first raised its head out the blue and thinking why was there no mention of this at Am's presser right after Robbie left 

 

It felt like the board has been blindsided announcing the role changes after the interim appt 

I wasn't against the appt with Naismith, not at all.

When I saw some of the football being played last season, there were signs, lacking a bit of consistency.

I genuinely thought, after a full pre season, watch us motor

 

Sadly, for whatever reason, that hasnt happened 

 

The backroom team of Gordy and Frankie was shuffled together, right out the ballot box.

 

Next 4 games for me are pivotal. Naismith might not even be calling the shots at the moment behind the scenes. That could very well be the reality of it all. Ah well, I'm sure Frankie boy will let his pal Joe know who is really at fault for what's happening now. 

 

This might end up being the first manager we ever get rid of, and he was never the actual manager in the first place. 

 

This is on the board. Talk about doing everything you can to set someone up to fail. Has remnants of the Stendal situation on this all over again. 

 

The board need to clarify their own position in all of this. Not good enough, and not by a long shot. 

 

Yup agreed. 

 

This board have year upon year completely pi**** so much money up the wall on so many poor signings you couldn't fit all their names up the side of the wheatfield stand. 

 

Now romanov damn well near killed the club but at least the signings were solid and made sense at times.

 

And that was from an utter nutcase.

 

This board get every football department related decision wrong.

 

Every single time. 

 

Enough is enough. 

[Hearts_fan]

Naismith should never have been given the job - he deserved neither the risks nor the rewards. 
 

Sadly, when he goes, his talents will likely be lost to the Club, unless he’s offered and accepts a demotion.

 

I feel sorry for him a lot, as I feel he could be a good manager one day. I think he’s been given a length of rope he did not deserve to be given.

 

Meanwhile, the board of the club really do have to accept external advice on the next appointment. For them to believe they can appoint unproven rookie managers such as Cathro or Naismith, shows a staggering ignorance of what is needed for a Club like Hearts. The board have done magnificently off the field, but managerial appointments… very poor.

 

We need an experienced - or as another poster described, established - Manager. We need a guy who has the experience to outwit an opposing manager, the charisma to inspire a fickle support, and most importantly a track record that shows an ability to get more out of a squad than the sum of its parts. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

To me the next four features are a pretty good temperature test. Home to Aberdeen, away to Mirren, away to Killie, away to County. Our #1 rival for third and three tough away matches. Naismith needs to show something in those. The European distraction is done, time to focus on the pitch.

 

We played fairly well against PAOK at home and but for a few inches might have won that. The other three of the last four have been unacceptable. If we play Aberdeen like we played PAOK, we should win.

 

Two more losses in a row and I'd probably say Naisy has to go. Beyond that, a minimum of 5 points from the next 4.

[Ulysses]

24 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Made some good points there tbf,

 

But the crust of it is the "Fans" and JKB didn't make the decision of appointing naisy and Mccavoy, that my friend lies solely with board, whether fans wanted it or not makes no difference, we are not running the football club, they are.

 

I'd agree up to a point.  But the reality is that people jumped on a bandwagon and made it easier for the board to make the easy choice.  If Naismith hadn't been the apparently popular choice, the board would have thought a bit longer and harder about it.  That doesn't change responsibility for the decision, but now that some of the same people who were cheering that appointment on are happy to have a go at the board, they should at least be willing to admit that they've changed their minds.  In fairness a small number have done that, but most others will probably be happy to pretend they weren't in the 80% who "boarded the Naisy train" back in May.  And in any case the club is going to be a lot worse off if the board keeps giving people the job and then sacking them after a dozen or so games in charge.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

To me the next four features are a pretty good temperature test. Home to Aberdeen, away to Mirren, away to Killie, away to County. Our #1 rival for third and three tough away matches. Naismith needs to show something in those. The European distraction is done, time to focus on the pitch.

 

We played fairly well against PAOK at home and but for a few inches might have won that. The other three of the last four have been unacceptable. If we play Aberdeen like we played PAOK, we should win.

 

Two more losses in a row and I'd probably say Naisy has to go. Beyond that, a minimum of 5 points from the next 4.

 

If we don't haul some points in September (like 5 from the next three games) we may have to write this season off.  Let's hope he's got what it takes.

[colinmorewasgash]

Its total farce that one minute franky boy is in charge and does interviews as head coach then today naismith tech director. Savage wanted his mate manager not naismith that seems to be the talk at club. I'm sure he knows that so can't be easy working with mcavoy who was in academy and basically steven gets demoted for europe then again why appoint him then realise oh he doesn't hve licence. Seems a bit like oh we didnt realise we needed seats for stand. Players seemed to playing for naismith near end of season. Halliday was pal of snodgrass seems petty that he doesn't at least get chance in midfield when we are short. Grant thing is weird if he wasnt in euro squad why keep him. Seems to be that players don't know from one game to next whose actually in charge and what are tactics from week to week. Also which one is it keeps picking rowles and bringing on toby as our midfield saviour. And what has happened to cochrane one of our best players originally to an absolute huddy with so many mistakes from him. Also when manager leaves they all leave together normally esp if they joined with them, so why was forrest kept on seemed bizarre.

[gregzy2k7]

18 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'd agree up to a point.  But the reality is that people jumped on a bandwagon and made it easier for the board to make the easy choice.  If Naismith hadn't been the apparently popular choice, the board would have thought a bit longer and harder about it.  That doesn't change responsibility for the decision, but now that some of the same people who were cheering that appointment on are happy to have a go at the board, they should at least be willing to admit that they've changed their minds.  In fairness a small number have done that, but most others will probably be happy to pretend they weren't in the 80% who "boarded the Naisy train" back in May.  And in any case the club is going to be a lot worse off if the board keeps giving people the job and then sacking them after a dozen or so games in charge.  

 

 

 

If we don't haul some points in September (like 5 from the next three games) we may have to write this season off.  Let's hope he's got what it takes.

Yep can see your point of view, I just don't think that the board should even be looking at fans consensus of who is the most popular choice for manager tbh, they should make a decision based on what is best for the football club, they should know better, we have already had the cathro experiment previously, it tells me that they are not learning from their mistakes and will probably appoint a novice again in the future, whether naismith works out or not, its just worrying tbh and i feel without change at boardroom level, we will continue to stutter and fall imo, I was one who did not want Naismith appointed initially but towards the end of the season felt we were playing alot better and was ok to give him a chance. I however did not expect the set up of technical director and would never have went for it if I had known that set up was in place, also I would never expect a boardroom to take my opinion or fans consensus opinion into account when appointing a new manager, that's bat shit mental imo.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

1 hour ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Yep can see your point of view, I just don't think that the board should even be looking at fans consensus of who is the most popular choice for manager tbh, they should make a decision based on what is best for the football club, they should know better, we have already had the cathro experiment previously, it tells me that they are not learning from their mistakes and will probably appoint a novice again in the future, whether naismith works out or not, its just worrying tbh and i feel without change at boardroom level, we will continue to stutter and fall imo, I was one who did not want Naismith appointed initially but towards the end of the season felt we were playing alot better and was ok to give him a chance. I however did not expect the set up of technical director and would never have went for it if I had known that set up was in place, also I would never expect a boardroom to take my opinion or fans consensus opinion into account when appointing a new manager, that's bat shit mental imo.

 

When did they do that?

[gregzy2k7]

5 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

When did they do that?

That's what the poster who I was replying to was insinuating happened, I.e that the board were influenced by fans wanting Naismith and took it as the east option,  I don't know if that was the truth or not. 

[Hearts1975]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'd agree up to a point.  But the reality is that people jumped on a bandwagon and made it easier for the board to make the easy choice.  If Naismith hadn't been the apparently popular choice, the board would have thought a bit longer and harder about it.  That doesn't change responsibility for the decision, but now that some of the same people who were cheering that appointment on are happy to have a go at the board, they should at least be willing to admit that they've changed their minds.  In fairness a small number have done that, but most others will probably be happy to pretend they weren't in the 80% who "boarded the Naisy train" back in May.  And in any case the club is going to be a lot worse off if the board keeps giving people the job and then sacking them after a dozen or so games in charge.  

 

I don't necessarily agree in all honesty with this part. I think there is a lot of people having a go at the board who also supported the Naismith appointment, and based on the fact that they never had a Scooby Doo about the licencing issue.

 

It wasn't highlighted at the time of the naismith appointment. Only that he was appointed interim manager and in the words of AM himself, "it's his job to lose"

 

I was one that was fully behind Naismith 100 %. No backtracking whatsoever. That said, if it was put to the fan base at the time, publicly, and also those that supported the appointment, that Naismith wouldn't be able to manage in Europe for X amount of time, and that we would need to shuffle people about in the background to compensate because of the licencing issue, I think most folk would have saw red flags with the whole thing 

 

I think if folk back the board, and make it easy for the board to make a decision there is truth is what you say in that they shouldn't then turn on the board things go wrong.

 

In this case and whether the board didn't highlight the licence issue for fear of UEFA getting wind about it, regardless you cant expect the whole support to gaze into a crystal ball and identify a known issue, that the board may have been aware of, but no one else was. 

 

Not having a go at you or what you are saying but the situation we find ourselves in now, is the 100% the boards doing, and no one elses, least of all those that supported the appointment. 

 

It was never going to be an issue having Tom, Dick or Harry in an official capacity as head coach but it sure as hell would have been and if the manager, whom everyone thought was the manager, was still the technical director at the time we started losing games. 

 

And now, we find ourselves in this ludicrous scenario.

 

I have backed the board in recent times and think having a board in place rather than having one or two decision makers is healthy. Absolutely. 

 

This, however, is an absolute mess. It's a futile situation and one, that unless we pick up, and pick up quickly is going to leave an "unnecessary" legacy of overall resentment. 

 

Further to that, we expect to hear an announcement shortly that Naismith will be re appointed HC and before he even has "ONE" game in his first official capacity as HC, and since the interim appointment, there is a vast amount of folk baying for his blood, and everyone elses already.

 

It sounds exactly the same it reads. An absolute shit show. It's border level incompetence, and the board have to and need to accept full responsibility for causing it. 

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

If we don't haul some points in September (like 5 from the next three games) we may have to write this season off.  Let's hope he's got what it takes.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Hearts1975

[FionaHmfc]

3 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

To me the next four features are a pretty good temperature test. Home to Aberdeen, away to Mirren, away to Killie, away to County. Our #1 rival for third and three tough away matches. Naismith needs to show something in those. The European distraction is done, time to focus on the pitch.

 

We played fairly well against PAOK at home and but for a few inches might have won that. The other three of the last four have been unacceptable. If we play Aberdeen like we played PAOK, we should win.

 

Two more losses in a row and I'd probably say Naisy has to go. Beyond that, a minimum of 5 points from the next 4.

Honestly can’t see us getting anything from those 4 games the way we are playing right now. Then we have October coming up afterwards where we have Hibs, Celtic and Rangers. So not much room for optimism I’m afraid. Really, really fed up with the way things are atm. Forked out an absolute fortune for season tickets, every away game and trips to Norway and Greece and couldn’t feel anymore disconnected from the club at the moment. Actually said the other day I’d rather have stayed in Greece over the weekend and just missed the Motherwell game and now I wish we had. Utterly depressing on all fronts. 

[NannyMaroon]

I've been thinking a bit about our coaching set up. 

So I'd like to float an idea. 

In my view our coaching has been deficient for many years. 

Most importantly the first team but almost important our youth and B team. 

For Hearts in Scotland, we have the old firm that can outspend us whilst we can outspend the rest. 

We want to be 3rd as a minimum but we'd like to challenge the other two. 

 

I think that the most important factor in both of these aims is training and coaching. It's where we have failed consistently. It's how we can transition youth to first team. 

 

We are the biggest fan owned club in the country, we do things differently, uniquely. 

 

So why not coaching ? 

 

We can't spend our way to success if the coaching is insufficient nor challenge the OF. 

 

Now the supposed innovation in our troika of coaches can be used to our advantage. 

Let's really innovate. Expand our coaching with an experienced team brought in overseeing all other coaches, with current staff kept on but new team in charge, we could come up with some titles that are appropriate but that's not the important part. 

 

The important part is to turn Hearts into a de-facto football factory. Expand all aspects of our academy, use the extra staff, get more youth in, maybe get an affiliate or two as a stepping stone to first team. 

 

A real, big investment in training. Forge a generation of players and keep the cream. 

 

Being fan owned could be echoed in our commitment and investment in training a generation of players that could transform Hearts (and Scottish football). 

The emphasis on buying in potential and transforming them in a hothouse. 

Players change, they get better and they get worse, let's stack the odds towards improvement. 

 

Ambitious, yes it is, unashamedly so. 

They said we couldn't get fan ownership, we did. 

 

I don't think Naisy is manager material, yet... But he could be. 

 

We can extend this commitment to training staff too, all departments, fitness, goalkeeping, youth, all specialisations. 

 

For too long coaching has been the weakest link in our setup but it should be our strongest, our priority. 

Strategically it is essential for us as the comoeting just with money doesn't work alone. 

 

I think then, the other stuff would sort itself. 

 

Yes the board, Savage and players bear some responsibility but fixing coaching would fix most of this. 

 

I think we need a much better and extensive scoutung network too and I think a footballing presence on the board is needed as it is lacking. But coaching is the key area we fail at that improves every other aspect of the club. 

 

So we should invest heavily in it and commit ourselves to innovate. 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by NannyMaroon

[NannyMaroon]

The foundation could play a much more important role in this, as an ideas factory for coming up with long term plans (short term should be left to staff) and to recruit new pledgers and fans to the club to grow our club, all positive, constructive things that help the club, expand and grow it..... By harnessing the passion, energy and creativity of our best assets, the fans. 

Directly involved in the club and eith more transparency. Maybe setting up some unofficial forums and organising supporters more effectively. 

We are essential to Hearts and we should play a bigger role. Not day to day but long term. 

[EH11 2NL]

9 hours ago, Rick James said:

For me, no. I don't believe he deserves to be 'sacked' as in have his employment at the club completely terminated. Do I want him as head coach? That's a different question.

 

The worst part about this situation is that I really don't know who to point the finger out. Is Naismith the one at fault? Or is it McAvoy? Or is it both? We saw a real tune out the players when Naismith was interim last season, and it's all gone flat again. Part of me says, well clearly he's not getting the opportunity to influence things fully the way he intends. Will that change in the coming days and weeks? Who knows.

 

The whole set up is a massive shit show and I don't necessarily blame Naismith one bit. It's ultimately another batshit poor decision by the club.

This is the baffling part. We looked a much better side when he took charge, a side with a clear way of playing which fitted Naismith's interviews. People will say 2 wins in 7, or whatever it was. But anyone with eyes could see it was an improvement, and the opposition needs considered when throwing stats like that about. We matched both the OF and battered Aberdeen, something we haven't seen for a while. 

 

Why has it suddenly changed? On the face of it it looks to be the introduction of McAvoys role. Or was it a "free hit" for lack of a better phrase, for Naismith to throw everything at getting back to 3rd place so he went all out attack. Who knows. 

 

It's not only worse than how Naismith had us playing, it's worse than under Robbie. After the way we finished last season I was really looking forward to watching an attack minded Hearts this season. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by EH11 2NL

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

7 hours ago, weegie jambo said:

I like Naismith, what's to say we can't bin McAvoy and bring in a coach above Naismith whilst he gains his badges. Still think he can be a good influence in the dugout. 

I agree with this, as long as McInlay, Savage, etc leave. Not sure how we change the board, but there needs to be some changes there (ie the people responsible for appointing Levein, Cathro, etc).

 

[1971fozzy]

I can’t see us picking up any points the next 4 games. By then these frauds will be hounded out.  It’s not working and nowhere near working.  We go into October with Naismith and Franky against the old firm and hibs and that will be tragic