Naismith In!!!!

[Agentjambo]

It will be Naisy,the cheapest option.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Agentjambo said:

It will be Naisy,the cheapest option.

Lazy comment. Rightly or wrongly, if the board pick Naismith it'll be because they see him as the best option.

[Jim Panzee]

3 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Timing is a factor in all appointments, but this summer more than most I’d say.

 

This season is finishing later. Depending on how tomorrow goes, we then have to wait until June 3rd to find out if we’re entering the Europa Conference League at the 2nd qualifying round, 3rd qualifying round or of course there’s even a chance we may not make it to Europe at all.

 

But if we were to enter at the 2nd qualifying round, the draw to see who we’d play is only 18 days after the cup final. The first leg would be 27th July. If it’s the third qualifying round the draw would be 24th July and first leg 10th August.

 

We have a massive summer in front of us in terms of recruitment, and depending where Europe starts for us (if it starts for us) we’d potentially have a very quick turnaround and pre-season might start early. Taking all that into consideration, Naismith has a heads up on any outsider.

if we have more money than normal, and if we want a more successful euro campaign and better probability of finishing 3rd next season you could argue we need the following (and being hard nosed)

 

new GK better than Clark - assume worst case Gordon retires or comes back the shadow of he player he was

new right back - better than Atkinson

2 x CB's - as good as or better than Halkett

2 x CM as good as Beni (for Beni see Gordon above)

2 x upgrades on McKay and Oda (to push them as well)

1 x equivalent or better than Gino

 

 

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Yes, he also said they were looking for an experienced manager so it will be interesting to see if he sticks to his words. 

Maybe after 6 weeks Naismith will qualify.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Jim Panzee said:

if we have more money than normal, and if we want a more successful euro campaign and better probability of finishing 3rd next season you could argue we need the following (and being hard nosed)

 

new GK better than Clark - assume worst case Gordon retires or comes back the shadow of he player he was

new right back - better than Atkinson

2 x CB's - as good as or better than Halkett

2 x CM as good as Beni (for Beni see Gordon above)

2 x upgrades on McKay and Oda (to push them as well)

1 x equivalent or better than Gino

 

 

Decent shopping list that. Joe has his work cut out this close season, with the rumour last window that Atkinson wanted away RB could need some work as well

[A_A wehatethehibs]

11 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

What's that got to do with what I said? After the end of the season could be tomorrow or in a months time.

A lot of folk are needlessly getting impatient, and what you’ve said is an example of that impatience. 
 

The club could say, after Hibs, “Naismith will not be getting the job, he’s back to the B team” - then it might easily be more than 2 weeks till we make an appointment.
 

There are some good managers out there available. Some others are at clubs we would have to talk to and negotiate. 

 

The full focus up till now has been on Naismith and these 7 games - I would think the club would have given him the respect of not conducting interviews / showing managers round the Hearts facilities while he’s in the hot seat to avoid any distraction at all. We needed laser focus on getting europe which, we’re almost stumbling over the line to.
 

We will have our shortlist of people who have said “yes im interested” there if a no-go decision is made on Naismith. You and I don’t know who has expressed interest.
 

Naismiths position probably depends a lot on whose names are on that shortlist, if it’s a load of bang average guys then he will probably get it, if there are some big names on there then it’s more difficult. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

A lot of folk are needlessly getting impatient, and what you’ve said is an example of that impatience. 
 

The club could say, after Hibs, “Naismith will not be getting the job, he’s back to the B team” - then it might easily be more than 2 weeks till we make an appointment.
 

There are some good managers out there available. Some others are at clubs we would have to talk to and negotiate. 

 

The full focus up till now has been on Naismith and these 7 games - I would think the club would have given him the respect of not conducting interviews / showing managers round the Hearts facilities while he’s in the hot seat to avoid any distraction at all. We needed laser focus on getting europe which, we’re almost stumbling over the line to.
 

We will have our shortlist of people who have said “yes im interested” there if a no-go decision is made on Naismith. You and I don’t know who has expressed interest.
 

Naismiths position probably depends a lot on whose names are on that shortlist, if it’s a load of bang average guys then he will probably get it, if there are some big names on there then it’s more difficult. 

It's not needless impatience. The sooner we make an appointment the better for everyone. They've had 7 weeks to decide what they want. Decisions are already being made on new contracts and players leaving. That isn't a healthy position to be in. We should no longer have a shortlist the shortlist should already have been whittled down to 1.

 

Andrew said when Neilson was sacked that Naismiths tenure would run parallel to them looking at other candidates. They've had plenty time to do that and decide who they want. Of course we can find reasons and excuses to delay but it's not good for anybody.

[Agentjambo]

11 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Lazy comment. Rightly or wrongly, if the board pick Naismith it'll be because they see him as the best option.

Or that the board really don’t want to face the reality that they might appoint someone else who will bring their own coaching staff,with the possibility of having to pay them off again if they fail.

[Berra than you]

3 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

The mental gymnastics is astounding, but fair doos as I actually like Naismith so outside an O'Neil, Neil, maybe Warburton type appointment I'd be happy.

 

 

I have seen you mention these names alot but have missed any sort of discussion on them. I'd love O'Neil albeit think it's unlikely. Could I ask what it is that makes you keen on Warburton? Mates that support rangers had similar concerns about him as the hearts support had on Robbie, so keen to get an alternative opinion. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Agentjambo said:

Or that the board really don’t want to face the reality that they might appoint someone else who will bring their own coaching staff,with the possibility of having to pay them off again if they fail.

I honestly doubt that's a consideration but I've no way to prove it.

[BlueRiver]

59 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Have any recent incumbents lost to Hibs twice in a row?

 

I think Levein lost to Hibs in the league then lost the next time we played in a cup tie in 2017. 

 

Might need to double check me but I was talking about this with a mate that supports Hibs recently. 

[Agentjambo]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I honestly doubt that's a consideration but I've no way to prove it.

The loss of £5m has probably hindered us from getting the manager and his staff,also player budget will be affected.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Agentjambo said:

The loss of £5m has probably hindered us from getting the manager and his staff,also player budget will be affected.

I think they said they were splitting this seasons euro money over the next three years so I doubt money we hadn't got yet would have been factored in regardless. Could be wrong again but I doubt we'd go for the cheap option unless we considered it the best.

[luckydug]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

It’s more of the case that the majority of us think he has earned the job already, but recognise if we lose then that will be a problem.

 

bit you know that and are just trolling because you aren’t getting your way

I don't think tomorrow's result should be a factor. 

If the board think SN is up to the job they should just announce it today. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

16 minutes ago, Berra than you said:

I have seen you mention these names alot but have missed any sort of discussion on them. I'd love O'Neil albeit think it's unlikely. Could I ask what it is that makes you keen on Warburton? Mates that support rangers had similar concerns about him as the hearts support had on Robbie, so keen to get an alternative opinion. 

 

Just better imo than other likley candidates such as Robinson,  Davidson, McInnes etc.

 

Warburton, if looking outside the Scottish goldfish bowl,  I like his style of play with Rangers as he tried t rebuild them after the championship and he'll have good contacts and scouting network of England as well as  experience of our game so isn't a Stendel or Cathro type complete blind punt.

Hes61 tho and likley comfortable at QPR.

 

O'Neil has a good record and will have contacts and scouting that could benefit us, Neil similar, if not as impressive.

 

I'm also trying to keep the options realistic,  not managers that have been  on millions a year or above our level.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Bazzas right boot

[Dennis Reynolds]

4 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

With Ferguson and Souness you’re going back to a time when there was higher regard for Scottish football.

 

Billy Reid isn’t a manager, he’s an assistant. I’m sure Heckinbottom was the same after he left and moved up to the managers post.

 

Alex Neil, fired after less than 12 months in his first gig at Norwich.

 

I’d actually forgotten about Brenda.

 

Someone mentioned both Jack Ross and Maloney. The same Jack Ross that got fired after less than 12 months at Sunderland. Ross then has been punted from his last 2 gigs in Scotland and i can’t see in another managers job any time soon. Sean Maloney who took Wigan to the third tier of the English Leagues. 
 

oh and the words I used were hardly anybody, not nobody. Of those names you mentioned only one from recent history was successful and that’s Brenda but to be fair in that one, he came to Scotland already with a reputation as a very good manager and came to Scotland to rebuild his reputation.
 

 

 

Whether they they were a success or not is irrelevant as you said;

 

Quote

Hardly anyone goes from the SPL to a much bigger job.

 

Which is bollocks. Stuck in that wierd English football bubble.

[Snorri1]

I've no issue with Naismith getting it really and that's what I honestly expect to happen. 

 

However,  even assuming we win tomorrow I don't think i can agree that he's done enough to earn the job.

 

If we are saying Hearts is the 3rd biggest job in Scotland for a manager, I don't think the limited body of evidence thus far can prove he's earned it.

 

I would also like to feel like our board have genuinely done some work and wide ranging research in terms of other candidates. 

 

I am willing to accept that perhaps they do but in the last few years  ( barring Stendel ) we've basically just appointed whatever was right in front of us. Not sure that's particularly robust.

 

Like I say though, for all I know they are doing thus work behind the scenes and will come to the conclusion that Naismith gets it anyway. 

[soonbe110]

38 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

if we have more money than normal, and if we want a more successful euro campaign and better probability of finishing 3rd next season you could argue we need the following (and being hard nosed)

 

new GK better than Clark - assume worst case Gordon retires or comes back the shadow of he player he was

new right back - better than Atkinson

2 x CB's - as good as or better than Halkett

2 x CM as good as Beni (for Beni see Gordon above)

2 x upgrades on McKay and Oda (to push them as well)

1 x equivalent or better than Gino

 

 

Hard to disagree with that. Midfielders need to be attacking midfielders, we have lots of defensive midfielders. 

[Jambo in Bathgate]

9 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Just better imo than other likley candidates such as Robinson,  Davidson, McInnes etc.

 

Warburton, if looking outside the Scottish goldfish bowl,  I like his style of play with Rangers as he tried t rebuild them after the championship and he'll have good contacts and scouting network of England as well as  experience of our game so isn't a Stendel or Cathro type complete blind punt.

Hes61 tho and likley comfortable at QPR.

 

O'Neil has a good record and will have contacts and scouting that could benefit us, Neil similar, if not as impressive.

 

I'm also trying to keep the options realistic,  not managers that have been  on millions a year or above our level.

 

 

Don’t think there would be much money left after signing anyone of your suggestions plus their camp followers. That would put pay to new players. 

[the posh bit]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

It’s more of the case that the majority of us think he has earned the job already

 

 

Where's the data on this pretty fantastic claim? 

[Jim Panzee]

33 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Decent shopping list that. Joe has his work cut out this close season, with the rumour last window that Atkinson wanted away RB could need some work as well

it is - and belongs on the transfer thread really.

 

but there is slight link back to our new manager though as it's a challenge they face (and that use of hindsight would be recommended for them)

 

we thought Halkett would return after the first injury and we'd be OK.

we thought Beni would be back well before now. 

 

can't mitigate (beyond what we did) for the terrible / lengthy injuries to Gordon, Boyce and Haring.

 

does our future permanent manager pin hopes on Gordon, Halkett, Beni and Boyce returning as good as they were before being injured? (as good as four 'star' signings)

 

or do they spend to bring four players as good as the above in case they're finished? 

[jr ewing]

4 minutes ago, Snorri1 said:

I've no issue with Naismith getting it really and that's what I honestly expect to happen. 

 

However,  even assuming we win tomorrow I don't think i can agree that he's done enough to earn the job.

 

If we are saying Hearts is the 3rd biggest job in Scotland for a manager, I don't think the limited body of evidence thus far can prove he's earned it.

 

I would also like to feel like our board have genuinely done some work and wide ranging research in terms of other candidates. 

 

I am willing to accept that perhaps they do but in the last few years  ( barring Stendel ) we've basically just appointed whatever was right in front of us. Not sure that's particularly robust.

 

Like I say though, for all I know they are doing thus work behind the scenes and will come to the conclusion that Naismith gets it anyway. 

One year contract and see how it goes. 

[Agentjambo]

I’m I getting this right?

If we beat Hibs it’s a yes and if we don’t it’s a no?

batshit crazy 😜 

[August Landmesser]

31 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

The loss of £5m has probably hindered us from getting the manager and his staff,also player budget will be affected.

We haven't lost it yet (euro play-offs are in August), and it wouldn't have factored into our current budgets anyway - madness to base a budget on income that is not guaranteed. As has been stated by AM several times, our budget is based on money that we have in the bank already from this season's eurotrips 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

15 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

 

 

Where's the data on this pretty fantastic claim? 

Scarves around the funnel Twitter Poll, was about 86% if we beat Hibs, 48% if we dont.

 

I like what I'm seeing personally, Naismith is experienced in Scottish football, that counts for a lot, see Heckingbottom, who clearly is an excellent manager, but didnt know our game

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

We haven't lost it yet (euro play-offs are in August), and it wouldn't have factored into our current budgets anyway - madness to base a budget on income that is not guaranteed. As has been stated by AM several times, our budget is based on money that we have in the bank already from this season's eurotrips 

We are understandably very cautious, would like to see a little bit of impetus though. We should still be in a good position to be clear of the others.

 

Aberdeen have a lot of bills to pay now and in the future, Hibs have not had a sniff of the groups, if the co-efficient holds up and there is a third year, then we need to be in position to grab it, either by winning the Scottish Cup (preferred route for me) or 3rd again.

 

Extra mile Hearts please

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

The mental gymnastics is astounding, but fair doos as I actually like Naismith so outside an O'Neil, Neil, maybe Warburton type appointment I'd be happy.

 

 

Are they? Just reflecting reality.  

[the posh bit]

5 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Scarves around the funnel Twitter Poll, was about 86% if we beat Hibs, 48% if we dont.

 

 

His own personal wee cup final. 

[kingantti1874]

23 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

 

 

Where's the data on this pretty fantastic claim? 

Start a poll. 

[Rick Sanchez]

If Naismith is the cheapest option I'm on board with that!

 

Recruit his preferred assistant or if it's McAvoy, recruit a new academy leader.

 

Spend a bit more in recruiting HIS type of players.

 

Hire a ****ing set piece coach.

[AC Mallin_51]

1 hour ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

A conversation I had with someone associated with the club suggested that there has definitely been a willingness to give Naismith a chance.
 

I’ve no doubt other candidates have been looked at (and maybe still are I don’t know) but he’s apparently a pretty impressive individual and held in high regard. 
 

As I’ve said previously, given when he took over and what he’s trying to do, there’s a wider context than just results at this juncture  that need to be taken into account. 

Of course 100% agree with all of that. There’s always gonna be an element of risk with these types of appointments but I do like Naisy as an individual and I like what he’s trying to do. Obviously just not blown away by him being appointed full time but I suppose we’ll never know if it’ll work out if he doesn’t get the chance 

[Dazo]

25 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

I’m I getting this right?

If we beat Hibs it’s a yes and if we don’t it’s a no?

batshit crazy 😜 

Plenty wanted RN sacked for losing to hibs so not that batshit. Regardless it’s a pretty dim witted view to think it’s about one game. Beat hibs and his stint as interim boss looks decent and deserve a chance in sone peoples eyes, loose and it doesn’t look so good and probably doesn’t. Not that difficult a concept to grasp. 

[BackOfTheNet]

22 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

If Naismith is the cheapest option I'm on board with that!

 

Recruit his preferred assistant or if it's McAvoy, recruit a new academy leader.

 

Spend a bit more in recruiting HIS type of players.

 

Hire a ****ing set piece coach.

Definitely feel bigger coaching teams are needed in the modern game. And set piece coaches get ridiculed, but a half decent one could help a lot in our league.

[the posh bit]

42 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

I’m I getting this right?

If we beat Hibs it’s a yes and if we don’t it’s a no?

batshit crazy 😜 

 

It certainly is.

 

This type of thing is why others are laughing their ***** off at Hearts at the moment. 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

 

It certainly is.

 

This type of thing is why others are laughing their ***** off at Hearts at the moment. 

No it's not.

[savage]

Been said already but bringing in an English or foreign coach that doesn't know the scottish game is always a risk.  

 

I think the players will have a say as well.  If they all like naisy and so far they seem to be happy playing his style I think that will also be a factor. 

 

Naisy knows the scottish game and speaks very well.  Also had a great playing career and I think he could attract good players

 

No matter what the result tomorrow I am all for him getting the job

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 hour ago, Jim Panzee said:

if we have more money than normal, and if we want a more successful euro campaign and better probability of finishing 3rd next season you could argue we need the following (and being hard nosed)

 

new GK better than Clark - assume worst case Gordon retires or comes back the shadow of he player he was

new right back - better than Atkinson

2 x CB's - as good as or better than Halkett

2 x CM as good as Beni (for Beni see Gordon above)

2 x upgrades on McKay and Oda (to push them as well)

1 x equivalent or better than Gino

 

 

Youve just spent, literally, millions.

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 year to prove himself is max for me. Away form being No1 objective , which will feed any higher ones im sure.

[Rick Sanchez]

16 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Definitely feel bigger coaching teams are needed in the modern game. And set piece coaches get ridiculed, but a half decent one could help a lot in our league.

 

I was one of them ridiculing but I would be delighted to have someone in now.

[Jim Panzee]

4 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Youve just spent, literally, millions.

totally agree. I completely get this. not sure if other folk on here do.

 

it's what is required to have an extended Euro campaign and edge us closer to the ugly sisters ( a 15-18 point gap?) - AND combine that with just have one maybe two key players out for 3-6 months only.

 

perhaps half my shopping list (plus injury luck) greatly increases the probability of 3rd - but has little impact on the gap at the top and no expectations on the eruo games.

 

 

[jtkb]

If we go naisy he should get no more than 1 year deal with 2 year clause for hearts to extend. The reason he can not command top dollar due to his limited manager experience any more than this is a bad decision by the board 

[pettigrewsstylist]

6 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

totally agree. I completely get this. not sure if other folk on here do.

 

it's what is required to have an extended Euro campaign and edge us closer to the ugly sisters ( a 15-18 point gap?) - AND combine that with just have one maybe two key players out for 3-6 months only.

 

perhaps half my shopping list (plus injury luck) greatly increases the probability of 3rd - but has little impact on the gap at the top and no expectations on the eruo games.

 

 

All true. 10yr growth would be only way to close gap. Lost revenue this yr..

A. Means we are further away

B. Giving it to Sheep means securing 3rd next yr may be harder., see point A.

C. We needed 3 solid yrs of sensible investment and mgmt to scoop 10-15 mill out of 3 potentially consecutive group stages. 

 

We have fecked it right up, for whatever reasons.

2 senior players have also left club at business end. Basket case tbh.

Anyway, tommorrow....

 

[kingantti1874]

37 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

 

It certainly is.

 

This type of thing is why others are laughing their ***** off at Hearts at the moment. 

who is laughing their arse off 😂 what a load of ****ing pish. 

[Jim Panzee]

1 minute ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

All true. 10yr growth would be only way to close gap. Lost revenue this yr..

A. Means we are further away

B. Giving it to Sheep means securing 3rd next yr may be harder., see point A.

C. We needed 3 solid yrs of sensible investment and mgmt to scoop 10-15 mill out of 3 potentially consecutive group stages. 

 

We have fecked it right up, for whatever reasons.

2 senior players have also left club at business end. Basket case tbh.

Anyway, tommorrow....

 

basket case a touch harsh in my opinion.

 

I read on here for example we're looking to spread this year's euro money across the next 3 seasons - a more reasoned financial approach than putting eggs all into 1 basket? (sensible investment as you say)

 

we've also had the spine of the team smashed to pieces through injuries. We heard aberdeen's manager bemoaning not having just two players available for their game against us last weekend.

 

we've lost 3rd place through poor away performances all season, horrific defending in the last 2-3 months, and Neilsen's insistence on continuing to play Snodgrass for at least 3 games when that tactic was found out.

 

Anyways - as you say - all eyes on tomorrow 👍

[August Landmesser]

23 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

1 year to prove himself is max for me. Away form being No1 objective , which will feed any higher ones im sure.

tbf his away form is decent so far - trips to Ibrox, Midden and ER, only one defeat (and that in his first game, after 4 days in charge)

 

*this post is mostly tongue-in-cheek, due to small sample size

Edited May 26, 2023 by August Landmesser
klarificayshun

[jtkb]

The money does not make a huge gap as hearts have stated was 3 mil profit ...cough cough ... Tax purposes 🤣 Say shanks is sold for 7mil them we would have twice as much as sheep. Also possible Euro run for us brings say 2 rounds your looking at 1.5mil all in.

[jtkb]

And if and it is a big if we get to group stage then all the Hearts are falling apart from the sheep basking in there huge 3rd glory is wiped out as we get share of pot. It is not over till it is over as they say. Remember we have made europa league group before. Get the right manager and recruitment at it is well achievable. Signed.... Happy Clapper 🤣 

[Nerja Jambo]

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Lazy comment. Rightly or wrongly, if the board pick Naismith it'll be because they see him as the best option.

The lazy option , but probably the best for the money we are prepared to pay. It all comes down to how much ambition they have. Since 2014 we have made ONE appointment that was out of the box thinking and that was Cathro, someone who the vast majority, including myself, were exited about. Since then they have played safe. It wouldn't surprise me if Savage wanted coach A , but the board played safe with coach B, then I think Savage will walk. He is the SD, it is his job to go through all the candidates then recommend his choice, the board should only be involved as to what salary we are offering his choice. As let's face it their football knowledge is shocking as history has shown.

[pettigrewsstylist]

4 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

tbf his away form is decent so far - trips to Ibrox, Midden and ER, only one defeat (and that in his first game, after 4 days in charge)

Cmon though, dive a bit deeper. Ibrox was a dead rubber to them, having a karaoke party for all the old boys to get a wave. I cant take too much from that tbh.

Liedoon was done and dusted by HT, they put us to bed and it looked very similar to the months before.

Easter road was dismal, though Barrie tried hard.

None of that attributable to SN.

Needed to see more to be offerring rookie anything long term tho IMO.

I think he could become very good manager, just dont think more than 1 yr at Hearts is balanced risk v reward at mo.

I reserve the right to review if he beats hibs 8-0, gets Gino signed and does an Eric Cantona into Roseburn end tomm.

[kingantti1874]

10 minutes ago, jtkb said:

The money does not make a huge gap as hearts have stated was 3 mil profit ...cough cough ... Tax purposes 🤣 Say shanks is sold for 7mil them we would have twice as much as sheep. Also possible Euro run for us brings say 2 rounds your looking at 1.5mil all in.

tbf the profit was after we spent money on stadium improvements and players.