Toby Sibbick ( merged )

[Thumperbeni]

4 hours ago, McCrae said:

If you want to blame someone for the goal and I don’t think you should…what about Halkett…stops the cross no goal.

If you want to talk about the goal then you could name a number of people and pin the blame on them but I’m not discussing that, my point is that TS is not a very good defender and is a liability. 

[cosanostra]

He seems to have everything he needs to be an excellent centre back but if he can't cut out the stupid mistakes, he needs to be moved on.

[The Treasurer]

People have to remember he's still learning.

I've seen enough to see that there is a player there.

Remember Zal was slated when he first came to the club and he turned out not too bad

[Dazo]

10 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

People have to remember he's still learning.

I've seen enough to see that there is a player there.

Remember Zal was slated when he first came to the club and he turned out not too bad

While he learning he is costing us goals or the very least giving chances away. At the goal while Boyle was nipping in he was on his knees. Why wasn’t he tracking and blocking the run ? Pretty poor defending to be honest. I’m not convinced he’ll come good as a defender. 

[DS98]

3 hours ago, Dazo said:

While he learning he is costing us goals or the very least giving chances away. At the goal while Boyle was nipping in he was on his knees. Why wasn’t he tracking and blocking the run ? Pretty poor defending to be honest. I’m not convinced he’ll come good as a defender. 

He’ll never make a good defender. He’s 23 not 19. The goal on Sunday was a catalog of errors but it just shows his complete lack of awareness. Not once did he have a look to see where the danger was, he just followed the ball. He’ll probably say he was marking the front space but space doesn’t score goals, men do. And he had no idea where Boyle was. 
 

It’s centre mid or nothing for him now and as I’ve said previously, if he’s not got the intelligence or awareness to play centre half then he’s no chance as a midfielder. 

[upgotheheads]

18 minutes ago, DS98 said:

He’ll never make a good defender. He’s 23 not 19. The goal on Sunday was a catalog of errors but it just shows his complete lack of awareness. Not once did he have a look to see where the danger was, he just followed the ball. He’ll probably say he was marking the front space but space doesn’t score goals, men do. And he had no idea where Boyle was. 
 

It’s centre mid or nothing for him now and as I’ve said previously, if he’s not got the intelligence or awareness to play centre half then he’s no chance as a midfielder. 

 

Correct, so why you're singling out Sibbick for criticism beats me. He could have done better but so could several others. All this is in retrospect of course, for instance if Neilson had subbed on Ginnelly he would have given the H1b5 defence enough to think about imo. All players make mistakes, so will Sibbick, but he's a good player all the same.

[DS98]

42 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Correct, so why you're singling out Sibbick for criticism beats me. He could have done better but so could several others. All this is in retrospect of course, for instance if Neilson had subbed on Ginnelly he would have given the H1b5 defence enough to think about imo. All players make mistakes, so will Sibbick, but he's a good player all the same.

Because this is a thread for discussing Sibbick maybe?

 

No he’s not, unfortunately.

 

 

[sjh1874]

As a defensive midfielder his natural instinct is to close down the ball. He lost or never picked up Boyles movement as a natural centre half would have done. In going towards the ball it was cut back left him on his knees and we know the rest.

 

What I don't understand is we had a more natural centre half in Neilson on the bench. Why do we insist on square pegs in round holes?

[Bob Loblaw]

What I find weird is this complete unwillingness from a section of our fans to accept we will have players who aren't the finished article and it's our job to improve them. That's the model we sell, and that's the model we need to get right to both improve, and make money from assets.

 

That means we'll get players who make mistakes. You can't just bin them every time you don't like something they do. 

 

Most people on KB wanted rid of Halkett, now look at him. Sibbick has all the attributes needed to be a good player, and he is still very young for a CH. 

 

Time to start backing our players instead of knee jerk reactions to every mistake.

[leith_dude]

2 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

What I find weird is this complete unwillingness from a section of our fans to accept we will have players who aren't the finished article and it's our job to improve them. That's the model we sell, and that's the model we need to get right to both improve, and make money from assets.

 

That means we'll get players who make mistakes. You can't just bin them every time you don't like something they do. 

 

Most people on KB wanted rid of Halkett, now look at him. Sibbick has all the attributes needed to be a good player, and he is still very young for a CH. 

 

Time to start backing our players instead of knee jerk reactions to every mistake.

 

Agree with this although I disagree with the fact this thread has risen to the top following the concession of a goal in which a few players were much more at fault than Sibbick.

[McCrae]

13 hours ago, Thumperbeni said:

If you want to talk about the goal then you could name a number of people and pin the blame on them but I’m not discussing that, my point is that TS is not a very good defender and is a liability. 

I think he is not the finished article but has lots of potential. We have had a few good defenders who looked shaky at the start but turned out well.

[OTT]

6 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

People have to remember he's still learning.

I've seen enough to see that there is a player there.

Remember Zal was slated when he first came to the club and he turned out not too bad

True. Don’t a lot of young CBs start out at CDM or RB as they build up their game time and experience? 
 

Might be an idea to use Sibbick in a role he’s succeeded in before - CDM. Rotate him with Haring. Then when his confidence is back can try him out again at RCB

[john thomas]

1 hour ago, leith_dude said:

 

Agree with this although I disagree with the fact this thread has risen to the top following the concession of a goal in which a few players were much more at fault than Sibbick.

Cba looking back at their goal but was it not , basically , on the left side of our defence ?

[leith_dude]

Just now, john thomas said:

Cba looking back at their goal but was it not , basically , on the left side of our defence ?

 

Yep, came down the left and Sibbick was the rcb. I've only seen their goal again once since watching it live but his involvement in it was minimal. Certainly 2 or 3 others culpable before him.

 

[Jammy T]

Why is everyone ignoring that he played RCB for Barnsley in the Championship in the season/games before he signed for us?

 

He is a defender (was a defender when he signed) and has been signed as a defender (his preferred position).

 

As it stands for Sibbick I read Zaliukas when he first joined. And I would say that Zal was worse initially than Sibbick has been. Let's just remember that before randoms crucify the lad.#

 

If people gave Sibbick the time and rope they gave Zal we wouldn't be having this conversation. No sane person would disagree that Zaliukas was shite for at least his first two seasons with us.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jammy T

[Jammy T]

56 minutes ago, McCrae said:

I think he is not the finished article but has lots of potential. We have had a few good defenders who looked shaky at the start but turned out well.

 

Agreed - I'd say that of the defenders that have been a great success for us in the last 20 years, 50% of them were either shite or written off by fans for at least the first season they were with us. In our current defence the hero, Halkett (who was arguably a or the major factor in the equaliser at the weekend) was one.

[ri Alban]

44 minutes ago, leith_dude said:

 

Yep, came down the left and Sibbick was the rcb. I've only seen their goal again once since watching it live but his involvement in it was minimal. Certainly 2 or 3 others culpable before him.

 

His man scored and the reason he scored was Sibbick's involvement in defending,was minimum. Sorry, criminal. The lad is torture in defence, I'd play Stevie wonder before him.

Edited August 9, 2022 by ri Alban

[Jammy T]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

His man scored and the reason he scored was Sibbick's involvement in defending,was minimum. Sorry, criminal. The lad is torture in defence, I'd play Stevie wonder before him.

 

1. Rowles should have taken one for the team and taken Boyle down 10 yards outside the box

2. Halkett defended Youan like a pussy - should have slid in and tackled him, wrong side or not

3. Our defenders were all out of position - don't know why but as the most junior defender, organising the defence isnt Sibbick's job

4. After all of that, and Boyle getting a free run into the box because Rowles ****ed up, how is Sibbick to blame for the goal?

 

#loonytunes

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jammy T

[john thomas]

3 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

1. Rowles should have taken one for the team and taken Boyle down 10 yards outside the box

2. Halkett defended Youan like a pussy - should have slid in and tackled him, wrong side or not

3. Our defenders were all out of position - don't know why but as the most junior defender, organising the defence isnt Sibbick's job

4. After all of that, and Boyle getting a free run into the box because Rowles ****ed up, how is Sibbick to blame for the goal?

 

#loonytunes

I agree totally baffling 

Boyle was Sibbick's man ?

[RustyRightPeg]

18 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

1. Rowles should have taken one for the team and taken Boyle down 10 yards outside the box

2. Halkett defended Youan like a pussy - should have slid in and tackled him, wrong side or not

3. Our defenders were all out of position - don't know why but as the most junior defender, organising the defence isnt Sibbick's job

4. After all of that, and Boyle getting a free run into the box because Rowles ****ed up, how is Sibbick to blame for the goal?

 

#loonytunes

👍🏽

[Watt-Zeefuik]

25 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

1. Rowles should have taken one for the team and taken Boyle down 10 yards outside the box

2. Halkett defended Youan like a pussy - should have slid in and tackled him, wrong side or not

3. Our defenders were all out of position - don't know why but as the most junior defender, organising the defence isnt Sibbick's job

4. After all of that, and Boyle getting a free run into the box because Rowles ****ed up, how is Sibbick to blame for the goal?

 

#loonytunes

 

This is the one that keeps getting me. Rowles is a brand new signing who's still learning the system, and Sibbick was tucking in to cover for a busted line. Boyle is an old hand who specializes in exactly this kind of thing and is very good at it.

 

And still, it was a desperation draw at home for them after displaying very little attacking threat most of the game.

 

This place sometimes . . .

[Cruyff]

I hadn't watched the goal back since Sunday until today. He should've done better there, no question. He needs to toughen up if he wants to make the grade here. 

[upgotheheads]

43 minutes ago, john thomas said:

I agree totally baffling 

Boyle was Sibbick's man ?

 

48 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

1. Rowles should have taken one for the team and taken Boyle down 10 yards outside the box

2. Halkett defended Youan like a pussy - should have slid in and tackled him, wrong side or not

3. Our defenders were all out of position - don't know why but as the most junior defender, organising the defence isnt Sibbick's job

4. After all of that, and Boyle getting a free run into the box because Rowles ****ed up, how is Sibbick to blame for the goal?

 

#loonytunes

 

These.

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

 

1. Rowles should have taken one for the team and taken Boyle down 10 yards outside the box

2. Halkett defended Youan like a pussy - should have slid in and tackled him, wrong side or not

3. Our defenders were all out of position - don't know why but as the most junior defender, organising the defence isnt Sibbick's job

4. After all of that, and Boyle getting a free run into the box because Rowles ****ed up, how is Sibbick to blame for the goal?

 

#loonytunes

You’re not really wrong in your analysis but the other defenders have clearly shown themselves capable.  Sibbick hasn’t yet and Sibbick was on his knees when Boyle scored. I assume he was praying because he certainly wasn’t defending. The vial was a group effort but that’s mean Sibbick is a defender by any stretch. 

[Naisys Tackle]

Rowles covers in for Sibbick who is and should have been tracking Boyle.  He is then caught ball watching and Boyle is a yard off him, falls on his arse and goal.  Piss piss poor positional sense. 

[Jammy T]

14 minutes ago, Dazo said:

You’re not really wrong in your analysis but the other defenders have clearly shown themselves capable.  Sibbick hasn’t yet and Sibbick was on his knees when Boyle scored. I assume he was praying because he certainly wasn’t defending. The vial was a group effort but that’s mean Sibbick is a defender by any stretch. 

 

That doesnt mean the goal was Sibbick's fault (although I wouldn't agree he hasnt shown himself as being incapable)

 

More importantly Rowles has trained with Boyle in the Aussie squad and he could and should have just blocked Boyle off or even just pulled his shirt and fouled him in the build up - if anyone should know that Boyle is a threat it is Rowles...

 

(as an aside Rowles in two games hasnt yet showed himself as being capable as he screwed up a couple of times for the County goal and before and he could have done much better before the Hibs goal although he does look as if he has potential)

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jammy T

[Jammy T]

3 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Rowles covers in for Sibbick who is and should have been tracking Boyle.  He is then caught ball watching and Boyle is a yard off him, falls on his arse and goal.  Piss piss poor positional sense. 

 

Rowles should have stopped the move much earlier - him covering is him reacting far too late.

 

Why else is our LCB running back into the box and relying on our CB and RCB to cover his space on the left hand side of the box and the left hand side of the 6 yard box?

 

Come on man, read what actually happened rather than what you want to have happened so you can continue with the scape goat stuff.

 

The goal was lost on the left side of our defence but two of our right sided defenders were left to deal with it. That isnt their fault it is the left sided guys - surely you have to agree with this basic fact?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jammy T

[Naisys Tackle]

1 minute ago, Jammy T said:

 

Rowles should have stopped the move much earlier - him covering is him reacting far too late.

 

Why else is our LCB running back into the box and relying on our CB and RCB to cover his space on the left hand side of the box and the 6 yard box?

 

Come on man, read what actually happened rather than what you want to have happened so you can continue with the scape goat stuff.

Here is the shape.  Rowles is covering.  CH with the bojangles guy and Sibbick decides to track Boyle leaving some dude free on the right behind where Rowles is there. 

[Jammy T]

Just now, Robbies Tackle said:

Here is the shape.  Rowles is covering.  CH with the bojangles guy and Sibbick decides to track Boyle leaving some dude free on the right behind where Rowles is there. 

 

You think that photo is what allows your argument to succeed?

 

- Why is our CB furthest right (other than Cochrane)?

- Why doesnt Halkett slide in their and tackle their guy or take him out?

- Why is Rowles face nearly in the grass 5 yards back?

- What is wrong with Sibbick's position there, and how could he have stopped the move into the box?

 

FFS, you just want to crucify anyone you dont like dont you?

[Naisys Tackle]

2 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Here is the shape.  Rowles is covering.  CH with the bojangles guy and Sibbick decides to track Boyle leaving some dude free on the right behind where Rowles is there. 

Pure and utter ball watching, his man is hitting the penalty spot and Sibbick has no idea where he is.  Sorry but terrible defending. 

 

[Jammy T]

4 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Here is the shape.  Rowles is covering.  CH with the bojangles guy and Sibbick decides to track Boyle leaving some dude free on the right behind where Rowles is there. 

 

Rowles is the guy nearly eating grass mate.

 

Natty is he guy closest to the edge of the photo (bottom right).

 

Reassess your narrow minded position why dont you.

 

 

[Jammy T]

1 minute ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Pure and utter ball watching, his man is hitting the penalty spot and Sibbick has no idea where he is.  Sorry but terrible defending. 

 

All your photos do is show me how shite Halkett was in the build up mate.

 

 

[Naisys Tackle]

1 minute ago, Jammy T said:

 

You think that photo is what allows your argument to succeed?

 

- Why is our CB furthest right (other than Cochrane)?

- Why doesnt Halkett slide in their and tackle their guy or take him out?

- Why is Rowles face nearly in the grass 5 yards back?

- What is wrong with Sibbick's position there, and how could he have stopped the move into the box?

 

FFS, you just want to crucify anyone you dont like dont you?

 

See above. 

His positioning made it clear he was on Boyle. 

The boy Haulket is on was gash all game, probably didnt think much danger would come from him.  Boyles a little different though. 

 

Nothing personal against the guy either hes just not good enough for me.

 

 

[Jammy T]

Rowles could have stopped the move in its tracks for a yellow card.

 

Halkett should have stopped the move by sliding in, as he would have if he had been on the right hand side.

 

Sibbick is way down the line in offenders here.

 

Admit it Throbies Tackle (in your mouth).

[Naisys Tackle]

2 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

Rowles is the guy nearly eating grass mate.

 

Natty is he guy closest to the edge of the photo (bottom right).

 

Reassess your narrow minded position why dont you.

 

 

Sorry got the 2 Aussies wrong. 

[Jammy T]

Just now, Robbies Tackle said:

 

See above. 

His positioning made it clear he was on Boyle. 

The boy Haulket is on was gash all game, probably didnt think much danger would come from him.  Boyles a little different though. 

 

Nothing personal against the guy either hes just not good enough for me.

 

 

 

Oh so Halkett predicted that Youan wouldnt get a cross in did he, so he didnt bother to try and tackle?

 

Are you for real?

[Naisys Tackle]

2 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

All your photos do is show me how shite Halkett was in the build up mate.

 

 

No it shows the defender losing their only threat ball watching instead of marking. 

[Jammy T]

Just now, Robbies Tackle said:

Sorry got the 2 Aussies wrong. 

 

That's not all you have got wrong here - having a nightmare arent you...

[Dazo]

15 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

That doesnt mean the goal was Sibbick's fault (although I wouldn't agree he hasnt shown himself as being incapable)

 

More importantly Rowles has trained with Boyle in the Aussie squad and he could and should have just blocked Boyle off or even just pulled his shirt and fouled him in the build up - if anyone should know that Boyle is a threat it is Rowles...

 

(as an aside Rowles in two games hasnt yet showed himself as being capable as he screwed up a couple of times for the County goal and before and he could have done much better before the Hibs goal although he does look as if he has potential)

 

Not blaming it on Sibbick but he defended exactly how we’ve seen him perform since he came back. Dunno what’s going on with him but he defends poorly. Track Boyle, stay on your feet and ffs be ready to block any cross. Pretty basic stuff imo. The other players involved without the benefit of hindsight probably made the right decision. We looked pretty comfy and it was far enough out so Rowles probably felt he didn’t need to take him out. Halkett got caught by pace would have been looking at giving a pen away if he didn’t anything else. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Dazo

[Naisys Tackle]

Just now, Jammy T said:

 

Oh so Halkett predicted that Youan wouldnt get a cross in did he, so he didnt bother to try and tackle?

 

Are you for real?

It wasnt worth the risk of a sending off or penalty if Sibbick was doing his job, no. 

[Jammy T]

Just now, Robbies Tackle said:

No it shows the defender losing their only threat ball watching instead of marking. 

 

Ok you've proven yourself to be what you are.

 

Well done.

 

Hopefully we only sign Northern Hemisphere guys from now on.

[Naisys Tackle]

1 minute ago, Jammy T said:

 

That's not all you have got wrong here - having a nightmare arent you...

Your the one that is unable to look at TS's defending logically from start to finish.  You are blaming everyone else bar the player who should be marking the goal scorer using basic defending instead of losing him ball watching.  

[Naisys Tackle]

1 minute ago, Jammy T said:

 

Ok you've proven yourself to be what you are.

 

Well done.

 

Hopefully we only sign Northern Hemisphere guys from now on.

What are you on about now?

[BigAlim]

7 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Here is the shape.  Rowles is covering.  CH with the bojangles guy and Sibbick decides to track Boyle leaving some dude free on the right behind where Rowles is there. 

Wasn’t sure before but that picture shows to me that the defence was originally in panic mode due to Rowles being way up the pitch, immediately behind three hibs attackers which is forcing Halkett to go out wide (where he’s always been poor defensively) and Sibbick and Atkinson are left to cover the centre of defence.

 

naïve from Rowles at that stage of the game, if Kingsleys plays left of a back three at one nil up with a minute left then he’s not  getting stuck in the midfield whilst everyone else tries to cover for him.

[Jammy T]

5 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

Wasn’t sure before but that picture shows to me that the defence was originally in panic mode due to Rowles being way up the pitch, immediately behind three hibs attackers which is forcing Halkett to go out wide (where he’s always been poor defensively) and Sibbick and Atkinson are left to cover the centre of defence.

 

naïve from Rowles at that stage of the game, if Kingsleys plays left of a back three at one nil up with a minute left then he’s not  getting stuck in the midfield whilst everyone else tries to cover for him.

Correct

 

Everyone then had to defend out of position

 

But its all Sibbick's fault apparently.

 

It was effectively a scramble defence - which as you say at that stage in the game was entirely unncessary.

 

To be honest the way our Aussie players hugged Boyle and smiled with him at the end of the game it seems clear that they look up to him far too much.

 

Level him next time. Treat him like that ***** Porteous would treat any of you.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jammy T

[Jammy T]

7 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

What are you on about now?

 

Although there are clearly a few people to blame for this goal you are blaming one player.

 

One player....

 

The only one....

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jammy T

[HMFC01]

I'd be lying if I said Sibbick couldn't have done better.     I think he could have got closer to Boyle.   He's got quick enough feet.     Subbed in, no question of fatigue.    

 

If he's taking criticism for the semi final **** up.    Then his team mates take it on this.    All they had to do was setup in a 541 or whatever against a throwin that was nearly at the halfway line.   They got sucked in.   

[Naisys Tackle]

1 minute ago, Jammy T said:

 

Although there are clearly a few people to blame for this goal you are blaming one player.

 

One player....

 

The only one....

 

Where did I say it was his fault and his fault only?  He lost their goalscorer though and that alone doesnt make him poor.  His displays beforehand lead to that opinion.

 

You rate the guy, fair enough.  I don't think hes good enough.  Nothing else to do with jack shit bar footballing ability and defending at a basic level. 

[Naisys Tackle]

1 minute ago, HMFC01 said:

I'd be lying if I said Sibbick couldn't have done better.     I think he could have got closer to Boyle.   He's got quick enough feet.     Subbed in, no question of fatigue.    

 

If he's taking criticism for the semi final **** up.    Then his team mates take it on this.    All they had to do was setup in a 541 or whatever against a throwin that was nearly at the halfway line.   They got sucked in.   

Gordon could have done anything but launch it out for a throw to them after their corner sitter too but there was no other out ball. 

[Jammy T]

3 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

 

Where did I say it was his fault and his fault only?  He lost their goalscorer though and that alone doesnt make him poor.  His displays beforehand lead to that opinion.

 

You rate the guy, fair enough.  I don't think hes good enough.  Nothing else to do with jack shit bar footballing ability and defending at a basic level. 

 

You havent blamed any other of our defence at all other than him. That's where I got it from.

 

And you are categorically wrong as the defender that initially lost their goalscorer was Rowles - you cant even acknowledge that because you accept you got the Aussies mixed up.

 

Laughable.

 

Rowles could and should have stopped Boyle in his tracks.

 

Don't you agree?

 

Look at your girly piece of shit photographs missy.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jammy T