Toby Sibbick ( merged )

[Bazzas right boot]

He's still not good enough at this moment. 

 

If he doesn't improve I'd be suprised if he's with us next season. 

 

Hopefully he becomes a more aware, aggressive, Intelligent and technical player over this season, he is young and can improve. 

 

We lost Souttar and if Sibbick replaces him or Halkett in our squad it's a big downgrade. 

 

He's hopeless at rb. Not string defensively and not good enough going forward to make up for it. 

 

He may be a DM,  but even then Devlin,  Smith,  Halliday and Haring can play that position better. 

 

 

 

 

[Jambof3tornado]

Decent game,unfortunate with the red but he couldnt just let the player break.

 

Looked much more composed.

 

He'll get better. Still prefer him in DM.

[RustyRightPeg]

49 minutes ago, john thomas said:

Red was stupid . Footballers , at all levels , do stupid things .

There is a good player there .

Lots of good performances today 

Halliday , Atkinson and (especially) Stewart in particular.

Think team selection and subs were spot on as well given the game on Thursday 

Yep I agree, gold post. I’ve come away from today pleasantly surprised at how our squad dealt with the worst possible fixture between our 2 biggest games in recent memory. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

The second yellow as a professional foul to stop a breakaway move. I don't have a problem with him making that foul at all, and he clearly tried to finesse it to keep out of the second yellow.

 

He played extremely well today for periods. His clearances in many cases were critical—collected the ball in the middle of the box and sent it into the Celtic half or found a Hearts man.

[maroonsgotop]

much better performance today from Toby

[David McCaig]

Looked far more comfortable playing a back 4 today.

[Thomaso]

58 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

The second yellow as a professional foul to stop a breakaway move. I don't have a problem with him making that foul at all, and he clearly tried to finesse it to keep out of the second yellow.

 

He played extremely well today for periods. His clearances in many cases were critical—collected the ball in the middle of the box and sent it into the Celtic half or found a Hearts man.

If we get off the guys back I think he will develop into an excellent signing.

[Martin_T]

Thought he was really good today, positional sense can be improved with game time. He's strong, quick and usually wins headers and tackles cleanly.

 

I think he can be a really good player for us.

[HEARTS FOREVER]

Thought today was his best game.

 

Daft sending off 

[The Old Tolbooth]

I haven’t been a fan of his but he had a very good game today, only his needless idiotic push at the end of the game ruined it for him, if he could replicate that form more often then he’d win the fans round pretty quickly! 

Edited August 21, 2022 by The Old Tolbooth

[heartsfc_fan]

Just turned 23 recently. He's young but got potential.

 

Think he's better at right back. Not centre half.

[ShortmanRossco]

Good for him today. I've been critical of him but he didn't let us down at all against the best team in the league.

[Ked]

A half decent ref wouldn't have sent him off.In fact a useless ref wouldn't have either.Clancy the clown though.

That said he needs to sharpen up.

I do think he can improve.

Where his best position is I'm not sure .

 

[Pasquale for King]

His best games in a three were in the middle, for some reason he struggles at RCB in a three. Good performance today and slightly unfortunate to see red so late on.

[Bazzas right boot]

Even if he does have potential and will come good as many believe it's no good to us atm. 

We need better right now. 

 

[BelgeJambo]

That Celtic team will destroy many defences this season.

They didn’t destroy ours today 

I thought Sibbick and Rowles coped pretty well under the pressure 

[1971fozzy]

Huge season for him. I like him but he does have the odd brain fart moment. To be fair he’s being asked to play positions that aren’t (for me) where he can naturally  offer his best. He is committed though and had a very decent game today. Silly sending off but fortunately it’s St Johnstone he misses so we should be able to cope. Hopefully he continues to improve

[TexasAndy]

No team certainly in Scotland can afford a squad of seasoned pros so we all have players of potential who have to step in from time to time and cover injuries etc.  Sibbick has done that since this season started.  Yes he's raw but he has done quite well while gaining experience.  

[PapaShango]

9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

His best games in a three were in the middle, for some reason he struggles at RCB in a three. Good performance today and slightly unfortunate to see red so late on.

Agree I thought he had a good second half in the semi final when Halkett went off and he played centre. Maybe a back 3 doesn't suit him, he definitely looked better in a 4 yesterday as did Atkinson. I've said before I think he has the raw materials to be decent, he just looks like he lack belief in his own ability at times. He still gives away possession at times in dangerous areas too often for my liking but he has the potential to come good. Unlucky with the sending off but both probably were yellows. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, PapaShango said:

Agree I thought he had a good second half in the semi final when Halkett went off and he played centre. Maybe a back 3 doesn't suit him, he definitely looked better in a 4 yesterday as did Atkinson. I've said before I think he has the raw materials to be decent, he just looks like he lack belief in his own ability at times. He still gives away possession at times in dangerous areas too often for my liking but he has the potential to come good. Unlucky with the sending off but both probably were yellows. 

Agreed, the second one was really soft as it was barely a touch and the guy had put the ball miles in front of him. Compared to McGregors foul in the same spot and the other things they got away with he was unlucky I think. Much more to come from him. 
Just another reason not to play a 3 at the back. 

[PapaShango]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Agreed, the second one was really soft as it was barely a touch and the guy had put the ball miles in front of him. Compared to McGregors foul in the same spot and the other things they got away with he was unlucky I think. Much more to come from him. 
Just another reason not to play a 3 at the back. 

Absolutely it's the inconsistency from the ref. The Japanese boy kicks the ball over the bar when caught offside second half as well and Clancy does nothing. That's a booking if he's booking Boyce. 

[Thumperbeni]

14 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Decent game,unfortunate with the red but he couldnt just let the player break.

 

Looked much more composed.

 

He'll get better. Still prefer him in DM.

Absolutely baffled by your comment as smith was literally just about to challenge the Celtic player before sibbick pushed him lol

[Jingle Bells]

Has all the physical attributes to be a good defender, the Support needs to show a bit of patience with him.

[BackOfTheNet]

I think there’s comparisons to be made with Zaliukas (don’t jump on me here). Zaliukas arrived at Hearts at 22, he was played DM and then CB. He was a boo boy favourite and constantly labelled a bombscare. However, reality was - according to Pressley - Alex Ferguson had him watched. Because he had all the attributes to make it in the game and just needed to stitch it all together. Sibbick has the pace, power, strength, composure and ball skills. If it wasn’t for things like positional awareness and occasional “brain farts” as people say he, much like Zaliukas, would’ve been playing a much higher level than us.

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, PapaShango said:

Absolutely it's the inconsistency from the ref. The Japanese boy kicks the ball over the bar when caught offside second half as well and Clancy does nothing. That's a booking if he's booking Boyce. 

You could tell Neilson wanted to mention it. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I think there’s comparisons to be made with Zaliukas (don’t jump on me here). Zaliukas arrived at Hearts at 22, he was played DM and then CB. He was a boo boy favourite and constantly labelled a bombscare. However, reality was - according to Pressley - Alex Ferguson had him watched. Because he had all the attributes to make it in the game and just needed to stitch it all together. Sibbick has the pace, power, strength, composure and ball skills. If it wasn’t for things like positional awareness and occasional “brain farts” as people say he, much like Zaliukas, would’ve been playing a much higher level than us.

Indeed, those are things you can learn also. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

Getting a red so late in the game to stop a break is stupid. You lose the player for the next game and there is no guarantee they would score even if they get past you. As for the Celtic game with many saying we would lose by 4 or 5 another goal was not going to change anything. Now he is missing when we could well need him most. Ok make a " professional " foul if you have not already had a card ( just make sure it's not a straight red ) but don't throw away your ability to play in the next games simply to keep the score down.

[NB GIN]

Would be the best DM in the league if played in this position. No idea why he is playing at the back. 
Absolute quality in defensive midfield role 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

27 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Getting a red so late in the game to stop a break is stupid. You lose the player for the next game and there is no guarantee they would score even if they get past you. As for the Celtic game with many saying we would lose by 4 or 5 another goal was not going to change anything. Now he is missing when we could well need him most. Ok make a " professional " foul if you have not already had a card ( just make sure it's not a straight red ) but don't throw away your ability to play in the next games simply to keep the score down.

 

Unless I'm mistaken the suspension doesn't count against Zurich or any European competition. We'll miss him against St. Johnstone and Livingston, hardly the stuff of nightmares for Lewis Neilson.

[tazhearts]

15 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

Would be the best DM in the league if played in this position. No idea why he is playing at the back. 
Absolute quality in defensive midfield role 

So you are saying that you think Sibbick is the best defensive midfield player in Scotland?  Aye right!

[NB GIN]

2 hours ago, tazhearts said:

So you are saying that you think Sibbick is the best defensive midfield player in Scotland?  Aye right!

I think he could be easily yes 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I think there’s comparisons to be made with Zaliukas (don’t jump on me here). Zaliukas arrived at Hearts at 22, he was played DM and then CB. He was a boo boy favourite and constantly labelled a bombscare. However, reality was - according to Pressley - Alex Ferguson had him watched. Because he had all the attributes to make it in the game and just needed to stitch it all together. Sibbick has the pace, power, strength, composure and ball skills. If it wasn’t for things like positional awareness and occasional “brain farts” as people say he, much like Zaliukas, would’ve been playing a much higher level than us.

 

Zal,  even when young would play well in many games.  Absolutely boss the defence. 

Like many youngsters,  he was prone to rash tackles / decision making but matured. 

He was strong,  aggressive and a good defender. 

 

Sibbick is quite a bit poorer at this time. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Bazzas right boot

[Naisys Tackle]

4 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Zal,  even when young would play well in many games.  Absolutely boss the defence. 

Like many youngsters,  he was prone to rash tackles / decision making but matured. 

He was strong,  aggressive and a good defender. 

 

Sibbick is quite a bit poorer at this time. 

 

 

 

 

A lot poorer at this time more like.

[Bazzas right boot]

11 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

A lot poorer at this time more like.

 

Yeah,  I'm not seeing the comparison at all. 

 

Even amongst Zals brain farts he had brilliant games for us at young age. 

Sibbick is no where near that. 

 

 

 

 

[BackOfTheNet]

29 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Zal,  even when young would play well in many games.  Absolutely boss the defence. 

Like many youngsters,  he was prone to rash tackles / decision making but matured. 

He was strong,  aggressive and a good defender. 

 

Sibbick is quite a bit poorer at this time. 

 

 

 

 

What you’re saying about Sibbick is exactly how people talked about Zaliukas for his first season if not two. (Some talked about him like that even up to 2012) Sibbick has not nearly had enough minutes for us to make a firm determination. And he has had good performances, it’s just some don’t want to see it when it happens. Just like Zaliukas, hence the comparison.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

What you’re saying about Sibbick is exactly how people talked about Zaliukas for his first season if not two. (Some talked about him like that even up to 2012) Sibbick has not nearly had enough minutes for us to make a firm determination. And he has had good performances, it’s just some don’t want to see it when it happens. Just like Zaliukas, hence the comparison.

 

 

Nah,  Zalikus despite his mistakes like Sibbick had far better games in between them,  far better- unlike Sibbick. 

He showed aggression,  passion,  determination and bossed some games. 

 

The only think they have in common is that they both made mistakes when young,  unfortunately Sibbick doesn't have the good games to compensate for it. 

Sibbicks good games are pretty averahe Tbh. 

 

I'm not seeing it at this time. 

 

Hopefully your right but I'd be suprised If Sibbick reaches the levels for us that Zal did. 

 

In fact,  unless he improves ( which he might do)  I don't think he'll be here next season. 

 

[BackOfTheNet]

10 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Nah,  Zalikus despite his mistakes like Sibbick had far better games in between them,  far better- unlike Sibbick. 

He showed aggression,  passion,  determination and bossed some games. 

 

The only think they have in common is that they both made mistakes when young,  unfortunately Sibbick doesn't have the good games to compensate for it. 

Sibbicks good games are pretty averahe Tbh. 

 

I'm not seeing it at this time. 

 

Hopefully your right but I'd be suprised If Sibbick reaches the levels for us that Zal did. 

 

In fact,  unless he improves ( which he might do)  I don't think he'll be here next season. 

 

I’m not saying he’s going to be good as Zaliukas. But I think your memory of Zaliukas’s first couple of seasons could be tinted or selective. There were many a fan in the stands that even booed his name being read out on the team sheet. But just like with Zaliukas, there were people who realised he’s a player with good attributes and people who wrote him off. You think Sibbick will be gone by next year, I think he’ll come good - and has not been anywhere as bad as some have made out on this thread. But it’s just different opinions is all.

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I’m not saying he’s going to be good as Zaliukas. But I think your memory of Zaliukas’s first couple of seasons could be tinted or selective. There were many a fan in the stands that even booed his name being read out on the team sheet. But just like with Zaliukas, there were people who realised he’s a player with good attributes and people who wrote him off. You think Sibbick will be gone by next year, I think he’ll come good - and has not been anywhere as bad as some have made out on this thread. But it’s just different opinions is all.

 

I remember Zal well,  had a few mares. 

I remember saying he could play like Baresi one week then like Bob from the chippie the week after. 

 

His level of potential was shown in his good games -  for me it was clear. 

 

Sibbick atm  for me is an average player that makes mistakes. 

He might settle and improve tho,  he has some qualities. 

Atm he's bang average and a liability at times. 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Bazzas right boot

[Naisys Tackle]

52 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Yeah,  I'm not seeing the comparison at all. 

 

Even amongst Zals brain farts he had brilliant games for us at young age. 

Sibbick is no where near that. 

 

 

 

 

Totally agree. 

[HMFC01]

Two moments I hope he thinks about more than the slack pass he gave away outside his penalty area. 

 

 The first goal where he should be attacking the cross to cut it out.   The cross from Forrest where he could've attacked the ball but left it for his team mates.     

 

Just needs to be more assertive at times.    He's got the potential.    

 

 

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

I remember Zal well,  had a few mares. 

I remember saying he could play like Baresi one week then like Bob from the chippie the week after. 

 

His level of potential was shown in his good games -  for me it was clear. 

 

Sibbick atm  for me is an average player that makes mistakes. 

He might settle and improve tho,  he has some qualities. 

Atm he's bang average and a liability at times. 

 

 

 

I agree.  We need to be patient and we need to accept that he'll make some howlers.  He's on a 3-year contract so we have no other choice than to be patient.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

7 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Zal,  even when young would play well in many games.  Absolutely boss the defence. 

Like many youngsters,  he was prone to rash tackles / decision making but matured. 

He was strong,  aggressive and a good defender. 

 

Sibbick is quite a bit poorer at this time.

 

Folk still talk about Sibbick's appearance for Stendel against Rangers.

 

He's not been involved in that many games yet. I'm sure he's going to improve. Will it be enough for him to be a first choice starter? Dunno.

[spacerjoe]

9 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

I remember Zal well,  had a few mares. 

I remember saying he could play like Baresi one week then like Bob from the chippie the week after. 

 

His level of potential was shown in his good games -  for me it was clear. 

 

Sibbick atm  for me is an average player that makes mistakes. 

He might settle and improve tho,  he has some qualities. 

Atm he's bang average and a liability at times. 

 

 

Beginning of last season, people were adamant that if we didn't replace Halkett we were absolutely screwed.

 

He'd been in the starting lineup for 18 months.

 

Sibbick has started how many games back to back for us so far in the same position?

 

For someone who's normally banging the 'have some perspective' drum, you oddly seem to be quite blinkered when it comes to Sibbick.

[BackOfTheNet]

All I know is, at every level, there’s a group think mentality that seems to skew opinions on players. Not changing minds, just skewing opinions from going from mildly disappointed in a player to rage at the mention of his name. (Should say the recent discourse on the thread hasn’t been that way, but you just need to look at the earlier pages or any match day thread or any comments on social media at the mention of Sibbick’s name)

 

Look at McTominay - before anyone starts I’m not comparing them as footballers - but he’s went from one of Man Utd and Scotland’s biggest prospects, one of the “few who cares” at Man Utd to now being apparently utter shite and a laughing stick all because Sport Bible like coining the phrase McFred. Suddenly all of United’s ails are down to those two, and McTominay gets labelled a shite footballer because of it. Point I’m making here is that players can have bad days and mistakes highlighted through a magnifying glass to the point that’s all people think about when they hear the player’s name. Hearts fans are just as guilty of it, it’s just not Sport Bible, it’s WhatsApp groups and pub chat group think instead.

[Fozzyonthefence]

14 hours ago, NB GIN said:

Would be the best DM in the league if played in this position. No idea why he is playing at the back. 
Absolute quality in defensive midfield role 

He’s nowhere near even the best DM at Hearts ffs!  One good game, watch this place when he has next shite game!

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, spacerjoe said:

Beginning of last season, people were adamant that if we didn't replace Halkett we were absolutely screwed.

 

He'd been in the starting lineup for 18 months.

 

Sibbick has started how many games back to back for us so far in the same position?

 

For someone who's normally banging the 'have some perspective' drum, you oddly seem to be quite blinkered when it comes to Sibbick.

 

I never wanted Halkett replaced. 

 

I'm not blinkered,  I've seen hm play a lot,  he's not good enough atm for a Hearts team chasing European group stage football and cementing 3rd place with a long term view of chasing the OF. 

 

He may improve,  but atm he's not good enough. Hopefully he does. 

He loses his man a lot,  he loses the ball too much and he costs us goals. 

 

If Halkett was out longer and Sibbick replaced him we'd be significantly weaker in central defence. 

 

It's also not blinkered today the Zal comparison is not there.  I'm not seeing it as I explained. 

 

He may need a loan spell or time to improve,  this is true but atm he's a concern. 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Bazzas right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Folk still talk about Sibbick's appearance for Stendel against Rangers.

 

He's not been involved in that many games yet. I'm sure he's going to improve. Will it be enough for him to be a first choice starter? Dunno.

 

 

Agreed. 

 

But atm  he's not good enough or playing well enough. 

And the Zal comparison is a bit off imo. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I agree.  We need to be patient and we need to accept that he'll make some howlers.  He's on a 3-year contract so we have no other choice than to be patient.

 

 

Make less howlers and/or play really well in other games. 

Arm he goes from average to making mistakes then average again. 

 

Maybe a loan spell is needed. 

[NB GIN]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

He’s nowhere near even the best DM at Hearts ffs!  One good game, watch this place when he has next shite game!

Watched him play there a few games was superb he was 

Brings speed athleticism into the middle od the park 

 

Think he will come good at defence but I would like to see him at DM

[spacerjoe]

4 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

I never wanted Halkett replaced. 

 

I'm not blinkered,  I've seen hm play a lot,  he's not good enough atm for a Hearts team chasing European group stage football and cementing 3rd place with a long term view of chasing the OF. 

 

He may improve,  but atm he's not good enough. Hopefully he does. 

He loses his man a lot,  he loses the ball too much and he costs us goals. 

 

If Halkett was out longer and Sibbick replaced him we'd be significantly weaker in central defence. 

 

It's also not blinkered today the Zal comparison is not there.  I'm not seeing it as I explained. 

 

He may need a loan spell or time to improve,  this is true but atm he's a concern. 

 

 

How many games has he started back-to-back in the same position for us? 

 

Halkett looked like a bog standard defender who was prone to a brain fart when he signed for us. Even in the Championship season. But I think it shows, especially with defenders, how they can mature into a role.

 

Is Sibbick as good a defender as Halkett now? Of course not! How much is Halkett worth? £2M? £3M? We don't have that to spend on players, so of course, we need to buy potential and take risks. Its as daft as saying we haven't replaced Souttar - a player who left to 5x his salary!

 

Halkett was a much worse defender than pre-injury Berra, whom he was ultimately signed to replace. He has matured into a very good, international class defender. This only happened by playing regularly.