Robbie!!! ( merged )

[HartleyLegend3]

5 minutes ago, TynecastleBC5 said:

Look at the spending gap between us and them. We played some good football in the first half. More so than them up until the sending off in my opinion. We had lapses in concentration with regards to our marking for the first 2 goals. That's down to the players. The sending off ruined any chance of a comeback. Bad day at the office, write it off and we go again. Calling our manager a loser is just petulant and childish.

Robbie is a top manager, and I think he has bigger fish to fry,  we should let him go to one of the top clubs in England or Europe. 

[soonbe110]

32 minutes ago, Chevy Chase said:

Robbie Neilson isn’t the best head coach we could attract.

 

The issue is, every appointment is a risk.

 

We’d rightly get ridiculed for getting rid of him now.

 

Whether you like it or not, things will need to get much worse before this becomes a ‘thing’.

 

We have an awful month in front of us. Results are likely to not be great looking at the fixtures. Add them to his last 20 or so games and the knives may be being sharpened.

 

We’re into Christmas/February time before it’s being discussed in boardroom tho imo.

 

I’ve said elsewhere tonight that I think this season will be his last. I stand by that 

Just two months after he signed a three year deal? Highly unlikely imo. Maybe this time next year if results are much worse than now. They won’t be though. We will still be in uefa group stage this time next year.  

[soonbe110]

Just now, HartleyLegend3 said:

Robbie is a top manager, and I think he has bigger fish to fry,  we should let him go to one of the top clubs in England or Europe. 

He won’t try it again unless he gas had real success with us. Admitted last week that he knew he had made a mistake within two weeks when he left us first time round. 

[the posh bit]

2 hours ago, Graham Thomson said:

I can't be the only person who is fed up watching Hearts under Robbie Neilson.

and I know we finished 3rd, ( in a shocking league) but we did it. 

And yes we are in Europe, 

Regardless of which 11 he plays, most weeks I think it's pretty dire, 

And no I don't hate the guy I just think he has been Manager for to long, we need fresh ideas

Corners and free kicks Kingsley aside, they are dreadful. 

I don't want an argument about it it's just my opinion, or maybe I'm just getting to old!! 

The league is pretty rubbish and with our budget 3rd should be expected, 

And really it's not about today just, for me he wouldn't have survived Brora, 

But I realise he has a 3 year contract so will just have to get on with it. 

And yes I have seen worse teams in my 55 years watching Hearts, 40 of which as a season ticket holder. .

It's just my opinion.

 

Biggest game in Tynecastle in a decade coming up in 5 days and you want a sensible conversation, on a Saturday night, about the manager getting sacked. 😁

[Chevy Chase]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Just two months after he signed a three year deal? Highly unlikely imo. Maybe this time next year if results are much worse than now. They won’t be though. We will still be in uefa group stage this time next year.  

What part of ‘we’re into Christmas/February before it’s being discussed at boardroom level imo’ did you miss?

[Rudi cant fail]

I don’t think today was robbies fault. We were caught at the back twice for them to go 2 up and a moment of madness from devlin finished the game off. 
I’m torn on Robbie as a manager to be honest. Folk will argue record wise he’s up there with the best, but at the same time he’s had two years in the championship. He does clearly struggle against better sides and overall his record against them is very poor. 
I feel he overthinks things and worries about the opposition too much when he doesn’t need to.

on the flip side he has finished third in his 2 full seasons on the spl. 

I don’t think he can take us any further than third, but realistically who can at this current time? A lot of folk were desperate for us to replace him with Alex Neil before he took the Sunderland job, look how that turned out, gets them promoted and he’s off at the first job offer that comes his way. Any decent manager we get would do exactly the same. 
 

I do worry though that it is only going to go downhill from here with Robbie. We really haven’t been great this season, bar a few spells in games. Even the games we have won we’ve rode our luck, ie in Riga and Motherwell. 
 

At the same time we’ve also been unlucky with injuries so far this season which hasn’t helped. I do feel we should have recruited a bit better in the summer, but that’s not just robbies fault. 
 

Important few weeks coming up, fingers crossed we manage to pick up some points to keep us around third, for us to then concentrate on that when we eventually get put out of the conference league.  
 

if we fail to finish third then the board has a decision to make. Fail to finish fourth, then he should go.

[Australis]

4 minutes ago, Rudi cant fail said:

I don’t think today was robbies fault. We were caught at the back twice for them to go 2 up and a moment of madness from devlin finished the game off. 
I’m torn on Robbie as a manager to be honest. Folk will argue record wise he’s up there with the best, but at the same time he’s had two years in the championship. He does clearly struggle against better sides and overall his record against them is very poor. 
I feel he overthinks things and worries about the opposition too much when he doesn’t need to.

on the flip side he has finished third in his 2 full seasons on the spl. 

I don’t think he can take us any further than third, but realistically who can at this current time? A lot of folk were desperate for us to replace him with Alex Neil before he took the Sunderland job, look how that turned out, gets them promoted and he’s off at the first job offer that comes his way. Any decent manager we get would do exactly the same. 
 

I do worry though that it is only going to go downhill from here with Robbie. We really haven’t been great this season, bar a few spells in games. Even the games we have won we’ve rode our luck, ie in Riga and Motherwell. 
 

At the same time we’ve also been unlucky with injuries so far this season which hasn’t helped. I do feel we should have recruited a bit better in the summer, but that’s not just robbies fault. 
 

Important few weeks coming up, fingers crossed we manage to pick up some points to keep us around third, for us to then concentrate on that when we eventually get put out of the conference league.  
 

if we fail to finish third then the board has a decision to make. Fail to finish fourth, then he should go.

An early exit from the Scottish cup would be an awful season if it is to another Micky mouse club.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Australis

[stevie1874]

2 hours ago, lost in space said:

I read the OP and my first thought was @Bazzas right boot and @Frank Black will be along soon!!

I really did laugh out loud when I saw they were the first 2 who replied.

Well done to you both - manning the defences after today's game.

🤣

[soonbe110]

11 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

Here we go, got to be a  lovers or a  hater, the new world of polarised opinions.

 

Why can’t we discuss the manager objectively. He gets it right a lot of the time and wrong other times. Every single team in Scotland has a terrible record against the old firm. Each game he tries something different against the OF, I’m sure he doesn’t think ‘ah **** it we’ll just lose today’ 

 

Today he probably got it wrong, then before he can change it Devlin does what he does. We had created chances and if Humphrys plays the ball first time Shankland gets a tap in for 1-1. We defended like amateurs for their two goals not much Neilson can do there. But then he could be criticised for not packing the midfield.

 

There seems to be an expectation on 3rd this season, I think it would be an incredible achievement to get 3rd with the amount of games and I said so from the start of the season.

👏

[TynecastleBC5]

3 minutes ago, Rudi cant fail said:

I don’t think today was robbies fault. We were caught at the back twice for them to go 2 up and a moment of madness from devlin finished the game off. 
I’m torn on Robbie as a manager to be honest. Folk will argue record wise he’s up there with the best, but at the same time he’s had two years in the championship. He does clearly struggle against better sides and overall his record against them is very poor. 
I feel he overthinks things and worries about the opposition too much when he doesn’t need to.

on the flip side he has finished third in his 2 full seasons on the spl. 

I don’t think he can take us any further than third, but realistically who can at this current time? A lot of folk were desperate for us to replace him with Alex Neil before he took the Sunderland job, look how that turned out, gets them promoted and he’s off at the first job offer that comes his way. Any decent manager we get would do exactly the same. 
 

I do worry though that it is only going to go downhill from here with Robbie. We really haven’t been great this season, bar a few spells in games. Even the games we have won we’ve rode our luck, ie in Riga and Motherwell. 
 

At the same time we’ve also been unlucky with injuries so far this season which hasn’t helped. I do feel we should have recruited a bit better in the summer, but that’s not just robbies fault. 
 

Important few weeks coming up, fingers crossed we manage to pick up some points to keep us around third, for us to then concentrate on that when we eventually get put out of the conference league.  
 

if we fail to finish third then the board has a decision to make. Fail to finish fourth, then he should go.

Great summary mate. As you said WRT signings -  we can't force anyone to sign for us, wasnt an ideal window but we still have a good few players in the door. Injuries have played a big and bad part so far.

 

Here's hoping for a great result on Thursday 🤞

[soonbe110]

12 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Oh absolutely!

 

We ballsed this up with the first goal for sure as Kio dropped back in but got nowhere near Colak. Not sure if this was just a CB pairing and midfielder too new to gel, or just Kio tracking back badly, but it failed.

 

In ref to the OP though, I don't see this on this occasion as poor tactics. Just poor play.

 

I feel we setup to try to win the match today but it was unfortunately just a quality issue.

 

Other times I've definitely not thought this v the OF under Neilson.

👏👏

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, Chevy Chase said:

What part of ‘we’re into Christmas/February before it’s being discussed at boardroom level imo’ did you miss?

Didn’t miss it.  Said I don’t believe it will be discussed in that time period. It’s just nonsense.  If we win on Thursday we will be odds on to go beyond the group stage in Europe - and some want the manager sacked or even think it will be discussed soon? Unbelievable. 

[gorgierulesapply88]

2 hours ago, MattyK82 said:

🤣😂

 

When we win, do we get Robbie in’ threads started?! 

Motherwell win papered the cracks.

4 wins in 18? 

[gorgierulesapply88]

7 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

👏👏

Colak waltzed from 19 yards to 12 un-opposed and nodded home.

 

Cochrane shows the line for the 2nd, player comes inside and they score what he done is what's encouraged.

 

 

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Colak waltzed from 19 yards to 12 un-opposed and nodded home.

 

Cochrane shows the line for the 2nd, player comes inside and they score what he done is what's encouraged.

 

 

Confirmed what the poster said - poor play not poor tactics. If defenders decide not to defend its their fault.  Or are you saying everything is the managers fault? 

[Chevy Chase]

6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Didn’t miss it.  Said I don’t believe it will be discussed in that time period. It’s just nonsense.  If we win on Thursday we will be odds on to go beyond the group stage in Europe - and some want the manager sacked or even think it will be discussed soon? Unbelievable. 

‘2 months’ ?

 

You sure as hell missed something.

[soonbe110]

Just now, Chevy Chase said:

‘2 months’ ?

 

You sure as hell missed something.

You sure as hell have lost me - 2 months? 

[Chevy Chase]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

You sure as hell have lost me - 2 months? 

‘Just two months after he signed a three year deal? Highly unlikely imo’

 

 

[jamborich]

Just jumped on this the manager is fine it’s the tactics that are shite 

Edited October 1, 2022 by jamborich

[Pasquale for King]

50 minutes ago, Carter said:

I was encouraged watching Humphrys today. He clearly hadn't read the memo about how you should be intimidated by Rangers and Celtic and be beat in the tunnel before kick off.

 

We need a manager with similar traits. Most preferably someone with no prior connections to Scotland and it's parochial nature. 

Spot on, Humphrey’s looked good. 

[Pasquale for King]

42 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Sorry, but without millions invested in the playing staff, it matters not a jot if any perspective coach has no fears of Rangers or Real Madrid he is not getting anywhere near the Old Firm, not in this lifetime anyway

So we just accept that? Teams with similar budgets or less have challenged them in individual games more than we have recently. I accept its a slow process to get our turnover up but have we shown any progress against Rangers especially?

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Chevy Chase said:

‘Just two months after he signed a three year deal? Highly unlikely imo’

 

 

I’m lost pal - 28 July it’s announced he has signed a three year contract with us.  That’s two months and two days ago.  There will be no discussion about his position in the boardroom for at  least a year imo if at all. If you have been paying attention Budge and co tend to see the longer view unless it’s clearly obvious that the manager is out of his depth eg Cathro and Stendel.  Results over five seasons suggest Neilson isn’t similar. 

[Pasquale for King]

31 minutes ago, HMFC 86 said:

Sadly unlikely, Neilson knows he will never get a club anywhere else where he will never be sacked

You never know, guys like Ross and Johnson have managed down there. 

[AC Mallin_51]

It’s literally late 2016, wonder if there’s a young, aspiring coach out there to take over, the kind that’s worked with Rafa benetiez. Failing that let’s just get an old dinosaur club man back see how that works out that might be good

[stirlo]

Robbie is not a tactical genius, but he is not the main problem IMO. The main reasons why we have struggled this season are (1) bad luck with injuries and (2) some distinctly average recruitment. The reality is that in the final third we are still lacking quality.

[soonbe110]

12 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Colak waltzed from 19 yards to 12 un-opposed and nodded home.

 

Cochrane shows the line for the 2nd, player comes inside and they score what he done is what's encouraged.

 

 

Kingsley was awol at both of first two goals. Think we may have seen the last of him in middle of a back four after today. 

[LogicalEric]

Struggling to see what our identity/style of play is to be honest. From back to front we seem to be disjointed or not in sync.

 

It was almost predictable how it would go today even without the red card. Half ersed pressing letting Goldson then Davies pick out those diagnals for the first two goals (same as the 2-0 game last season). Bar Humphrys there was no one willing to be direct or physical. We've signed a lure penalty box poacher in Shankland yet he seems to be expected to act like a budget Firmino chasing down full backs.

[Pasquale for King]

33 minutes ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

Robbie is a top manager, and I think he has bigger fish to fry,  we should let him go to one of the top clubs in England or Europe. 

Good one that cheered me up 👍🏽👏🏾😜

[Peteg75]

It's not all Robbies fault. I wish folk would get behind him a bit more.  The boys on the park are letting us down.  Obviously injuries have stalled his plans.  Maybe better to wait until he has everyone available..then judge him.. 

[AC Mallin_51]

3 weeks ago these cries rang out. 6 defeats in 7 games. After Motherwell not a mention, good times are back. Pumped off rangers back to the bad times, see if we get a result on Thursday then noone cates about today then drop points at killie it’s doomsday. It’s exhausting supporting hearts 😂

[Chevy Chase]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I’m lost pal - 28 July it’s announced he has signed a three year contract with us.  That’s two months and two days ago.  There will be no discussion about his position in the boardroom for at  least a year imo if at all. If you have been paying attention Budge and co tend to see the longer view unless it’s clearly obvious that the manager is out of his depth eg Cathro and Stendel.  Results over five seasons suggest Neilson isn’t similar. 

 

Why you mentioned ‘two months’ when replying to my post that gave winter this year as a timeframe is beyond me. That’s where the confusion was borne.

 

But whatever mate. Wires crossed. Enjoy your weekend 👍🏻

[innerjambo]

Sadly today just reinforced how average we really are. In a very very below average league. Nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future I'm afraid. 

[Chevy Chase]

Just now, innerjambo said:

Sadly today just reinforced how average we really are. In a very very below average league. Nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future I'm afraid. 

I’ve spent a total of 7 days holidays on Euro trips. That’s quite a change for me.

[BackOfTheNet]

Neilson isn’t going anywhere. This loss will not change our overall position as a club in Scotland or Europe, and that for many (including the board) is the main thing. Calling for the sack after getting beat by Rangers is an odd thing anyway.

 

But people have every right to be annoyed about how the side is tactically set up. I’ll never get people having personal stubborn views on players or managers that make them seethe. But where criticism is rightly due, it’s due.

 

Here’s some tactical gripes I recall from today’s game alone, and have been reminded of from watching the highlights (and I’m only including pre-sending off here):

 

▪️No one left up when defending a corner - McKay or Forrest will be doing nothing to help us defend a corner in our own box, at least one of them should be at the half way line in case (as happened) we clear, so that the ball doesn’t just come straight back at us for no reason

 

▪️Throw-ins - we always let the full/wing back take the throw in when a quicker throw would be more beneficial, all we do is let the other team organise themselves

 

▪️Pressing in big games - before anyone starts, I’m not saying we should be Man City or Liverpool here, but pressing and harrying defenders (against the OF in particular) is crucial. They need to be unsettled and have no time to think. All we did was sit off them.

 

▪️Sitting off - carrying on from the last point, this is clear as day a tactical choice, the players have been told to sit off and let Rangers come at us, most likely so we can counter quickly.
 

▪️1st goal - carrying on from the last two points, we have Gouldson taking all the time in the world to pick a pass and he just kicks it over the entire midfield taking our attack and midfield out of the game with one pass, they win the 2nd ball as they have crowded our defensive third and the ball gets played out to Kent (who Smith sits off) who has all the time in the world to pick out a cross for Colak’s header

 

▪️Ball watching - linked into the sitting off, too often in games this season and towards end of last we do not play to touch but zonally and are guilty of ball watching. Oddly, Sibbick is the only one people call out on this, when in fact Kingsley is probably the worst culprit. Combination of no pressure, sitting off and ball watching gave Rangers a goal they didn’t have to even earn. But not just the goal, watch all their chances, players running back watching the ball be played to one Rangers player after another without challenge and Rangers players making runs yards away from any of our defenders who should really be tracking where they are.

 

▪️Horses for courses - Barrie McKay is arguably our best player, but in big games he may as well not even have started. I genuinely think he needs to be on the bench for those games. Someone like Grant instead of him behind Shankland today, or even put Humphrys in behind and have Ginnelly out on the wing would have potentially given their defence more to worry about. (Saying that, wouldn’t matter who it is if they get told to stand off) McKay gets marked out of the big games too easily and as much as we may like his sexy, silky runs sometimes, he’s never up to the pace of a big game. Ever.

 

▪️2nd goal - played along the back in fairness with a tiny bit of jogging pressure this time on Goldson and Lundstram. Lundstram though then has time to - again - bypass our attack and midfield with one pass to Motondo who Cochrane sits off and he runs forward and plays a ball to Colak (who made a good run, but clearly we were not aware of his run due to - again- ball watching and zonal marking)

 

Add into all that individual mistakes (which you cannot blame on tactics) and we are a beating waiting to happen.

 

Today, we genuinely would have been better off not turning up and just forfeiting. We’d at least only have a 0-3 loss on record instead of a 0-4 and we wouldn’t have Devlin suspended now. This isn’t a long Neilson out post. Just a list of obvious to anyone with eyes observations of our tactics.

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Chevy Chase said:

 

Why you mentioned ‘two months’ when replying to my post that gave winter this year as a timeframe is beyond me. That’s where the confusion was borne.

 

But whatever mate. Wires crossed. Enjoy your weekend 👍🏻

Cheers, I was just wondering why anyone would think he would be under pressure just two months after signing a long term contract. If we lose every game until Feb you could be right, if we win most games until Feb I’ll be right. I know which of us I’d like to be the best predictor of Robbie’s short term future.  Your prediction that this is his last season suggests you think we are in for a really bad season. I see no real evidence of that. We are still in good shape for third place and to date w have played about 7 ‘huge’ games in the space of two months with another 5 or 6 coming in the next six weeks. 
Not sure I can remember another Hearts manger having such a tough opening 3/4 months to a season. 

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, Chevy Chase said:

I’ve spent a total of 7 days holidays on Euro trips. That’s quite a change for me.

👏

[Sherbet]

44 minutes ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

Robbie is a top manager, and I think he has bigger fish to fry,  we should let him go to one of the top clubs in England or Europe. 

Lol

[Carter]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Cheers, I was just wondering why anyone would think he would be under pressure just two months after signing a long term contract. If we lose every game until Feb you could be right, if we win most games until Feb I’ll be right. I know which of us I’d like to be the best predictor of Robbie’s short term future.  Your prediction that this is his last season suggests you think we are in for a really bad season. I see no real evidence of that. We are still in good shape for third place and to date w have played about 7 ‘huge’ games in the space of two months with another 5 or 6 coming in the next six weeks. 
Not sure I can remember another Hearts manger having such a tough opening 3/4 months to a season. 

Only 3 teams have conceded more league goals than us so far. The next 4 games in the league are really important for us. 

[The Grim Reaper]

51 minutes ago, Chevy Chase said:

What if Killie beat us but we finish ahead of Hibs?

 

Hi Tosh 

[Chevy Chase]

Just now, The Grim Reaper said:

Hi Tosh 

I ain’t no Hibs fool, fool!

[The Grim Reaper]

Just now, Chevy Chase said:

I ain’t no Hibs fool, fool!

Haha, fair play. 

[jr ewing]

42 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Didn’t miss it.  Said I don’t believe it will be discussed in that time period. It’s just nonsense.  If we win on Thursday we will be odds on to go beyond the group stage in Europe - and some want the manager sacked or even think it will be discussed soon? Unbelievable. 

We won't and it won't. 

[August Landmesser]

I haven't bothered reading any of the thread, but just hopped in to ask:

 

What do people expect from a Hearts manager?

 

The absolute best any team (except two) in this stupid league can hope for is 3rd, two cups, and a trip or two into Europe.

 

So, Robbie so far has got us 3rd twice, two cup finals (losing to the OF x 2), and a trip or two into Europe. 

 

He's getting close to the maximum achievement possible

[StevenNaismith]

For once I’d love us in a big game to go out from the start and try to impose OUR game on the opponent instead of trying to be clever and nullify their game. Not a single Hearts fan would have predicted Humphrys in from the start today and it was clear why he started, he was the out ball for his height. It meant shifting McKay and Forrest out of their best positions and affected us. 

[BackOfTheNet]

Just saw the post match interview where Neilson said the sending off changed the game. Utter pish. The game was lost well and truly before that. I was waiting to see him on the sidelines screaming at players to harry and pressure, but he stood there hands in pockets not changing anything. No adapting to what’s going on in front of his very eyes. Only change he did make was just before the sending off, and that was to swift Forrest to the no.10 and McKay out wide, which would likely have changed nothing. Michael Stewart on Sportscene pointing out that Rangers long ball over the top was utilised in the last game of last season too. So it’s not as if we’d not have been aware or have been warned. These are tactical failings, and this is why many have the view that Neilson is limited. He’s not learning from his mistakes.

[BackOfTheNet]

4 minutes ago, StevenNaismith said:

For once I’d love us in a big game to go out from the start and try to impose OUR game on the opponent instead of trying to be clever and nullify their game. Not a single Hearts fan would have predicted Humphrys in from the start today and it was clear why he started, he was the out ball for his height. It meant shifting McKay and Forrest out of their best positions and affected us. 

We did it at home to Zurich and for some reason in no other game. When clearly it worked very, very well.

[Carter]

2 minutes ago, StevenNaismith said:

For once I’d love us in a big game to go out from the start and try to impose OUR game on the opponent instead of trying to be clever and nullify their game. Not a single Hearts fan would have predicted Humphrys in from the start today and it was clear why he started, he was the out ball for his height. It meant shifting McKay and Forrest out of their best positions and affected us. 

When Humphrys played the give and go and spun in behind Barasic it was clear that he really had the beating of him. Barasic can't run. That should've been the area we looked to exploit. 

 

Given where we played Humphrys we then needed to sacrifice McKay or more likely Forrest in order to play Haring or Halliday as an additional central midfielder. We were far too easy to exploit, particularly against such a weakened back 4. Haring was absolutely pitiful when he came on. Terrible performance.

[innerjambo]

Haring is slow and sh**e, gives possession away time after time, get rid asap!!!

[Pasquale for King]

57 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Confirmed what the poster said - poor play not poor tactics. If defenders decide not to defend its their fault.  Or are you saying everything is the managers fault? 

Who signed them who coached them? Ultimately any manager is responsible for what his team does, absolute basics at any club. 

[Carter]

2 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

Haring is slow and sh**e, gives possession away time after time, get rid asap!!!

He was grim today. Instinctively wanted to go back or sideways whenever he took possession. At one stage the time it took him to turn defied belief. 

 

This will surely be his last season with us.