BlueRiver Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said: I'm struggling to tell the difference from your normal posting style tbh. Touchè Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: Because Scotland benefited massively. It was run just as much for Scotland as it was for England. Do you think Edinburgh just willed itself into being in the state it currently is? Scottish people benefitted hugely from Empire. A cursory understanding of the social and economic history of this country would be enough for most folk to accept that. Again though - did Scotland have a role in the world wars? Scotland gained as a by product, no empirical decisions were made with Dalkeith's best interests in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Just now, Smithee said: Scotland gained as a by product, no empirical decisions were made with Dalkeith's best interests in mind. No empirical decisions were probably made with "insert any minor English town". Scotland have a role in anything the past 300 years? Come on. No hard. It's a yes or no. You're partly there with the empire denials. Just complete the logical conclusion. Nae role in anything. I for one would like to thank our English overlords for keeping us safe in 1940. 😍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, BlueRiver said: The too wee, too poor, and too stupid patter was all over the Sturgeon thread yesterday when your fellow voters were doing all they could to denigrate the Scotland of the past 300 years. Chips galore. All the self governing independent countries around the world can do what they want. I don't care. No one laughs at me anywhere I go in this wonderful island. Delude yourself into thinking Holyrood cares. They're as interested in me as Westminster. I'm just a tax payer to them. They've done zero for me. Excellent stuff 1 hour ago, BlueRiver said: Get the ****ing bus booked there's nats to feed to the lions when Sir Keir rides to liberate Scotland from the clutches of the SNP. Fabulous..... 1 hour ago, BlueRiver said: We should look to change aw they signs anaw. Scotlandshire or North Britain sounds good to me. Your on a roll today...keep it coming...im chortling here............ 36 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: It wasn't a complex point to understand really. Just an abysmal one. He made a james hunt of himself with his " argument" he would be best to try and let it go. Pretend it didn't happen. Lacks humility though, 32 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: It did. I didn't run away. I gave my view. Scotland and its institutions at all levels were involved in Empire. Your tortured semantics might play well in your head but it was utter nonsense. Edinburgh has a role in Empire. Glasgow had a role in Empire. Bristol had a role in Empire. You couldn't bring yourself to answer whether Scotland played a role in the world wars because you realised you'd have to say no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, XB52 said: Jesus Smithee, everyone knows BR is just having a laugh by being the polar opposite of Aussieh. The more you bite the more he is laughing It's a point I believe in strongly and I have all the time to discuss it. I get that it won't be that entertaining though, sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: Because Scotland benefited massively. It was run just as much for Scotland as it was for England. Do you think Edinburgh just willed itself into being in the state it currently is? Scottish people benefitted hugely from Empire. A cursory understanding of the social and economic history of this country would be enough for most folk to accept that. Again though - did Scotland have a role in the world wars? You are waisting your time trying to debate this as the opposition side live in alternate universe. The English empire, the English world wars, it's simply laughable and the stuff of fantasy. Thank goodness the sane majority see the SNP eejits as they are, with more recognising the complete and utter failure of their tenure in power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Just now, JudyJudyJudy said: Excellent stuff Fabulous..... Your on a roll today...keep it coming...im chortling here............ He made a james hunt of himself with his " argument" he would be best to try and let it go. Pretend it didn't happen. Lacks humility though, 🤣🤣 I should probably calm down and let the topic return to its original state. A wee gang hut for folk that wouldn't vote Labour regardless moaning about Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 There is nothing wrong with acknowledging Scotland's role in our colonial past. There is if you dont acknowledge it though. We have to move on and accept it was morally wrong and created issues which are still in existence today. Thats why its important that Govts apologise for their role in it. Not sure if the SNP have as yet ? I may be wrong though. They did apologise for the treatment of witches though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: 🤣🤣 I should probably calm down and let the topic return to its original state. A wee gang hut for folk that wouldn't vote Labour regardless moaning about Labour. It was fun. You clearly learned a lot from Ri.. I voted Labour in the Scottish elections cause of the MSP in my area. Just like ill vote SNP in the Westminster election because of the MP in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: You are waisting your time trying to debate this as the opposition side live in alternate universe. The English empire, the English world wars, it's simply laughable and the stuff of fantasy. Thank goodness the sane majority see the SNP eejits as they are, with more recognising the complete and utter failure of their tenure in power. Anas and Keir will sort them out. Bus booked. All this love for the lions but that polar bear up north could do with some feeding as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: You are waisting your time trying to debate this as the opposition side live in alternate universe. The English empire, the English world wars, it's simply laughable and the stuff of fantasy. Thank goodness the sane majority see the SNP eejits as they are, with more recognising the complete and utter failure of their tenure in power. This is my point, no one else's, and I'm not SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said: It was fun. You clearly learned a lot from Ri.. I voted Labour in the Scottish elections cause of the MSP in my area. Just like ill vote SNP in the Westminster election because of the MP in my area. Dying breed that vote based on who's actually being put forward. For all the nonsense this morning it really does give me pause in my constituency. It's Douglas Alexander for Labour. Unfortunately this is an SNP/Labour swing seat just now so it's rock and hard place. Don't know the SNP candidate. Last time it was MacAskill who ****ed off to Alba and didn't do us the courtesy of a by election. All a bunch of tossers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: Dying breed that vote based on who's actually being put forward. For all the nonsense this morning it really does give me pause in my constituency. It's Douglas Alexander for Labour. Unfortunately this is an SNP/Labour swing seat just now so it's rock and hard place. Don't know the SNP candidate. Last time it was MacAskill who ****ed off to Alba and didn't do us the courtesy of a by election. All a bunch of tossers. Joanna cherry is my local MP. I tactically voted last year to oust the SNP out of Edinburgh council and it worked. ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 21 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: No empirical decisions were probably made with "insert any minor English town". Scotland have a role in anything the past 300 years? Come on. No hard. It's a yes or no. You're partly there with the empire denials. Just complete the logical conclusion. Nae role in anything. I for one would like to thank our English overlords for keeping us safe in 1940. 😍 Americans helped 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said: Americans helped 😉 Ah, the Welsh colonies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said: Americans helped 😉 No in 1940 when battles were raging in our skies and nothing stood between the wee poor cavemen of the North except those glorious English boys in their flying machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said: No in 1940 when battles were raging in our skies and nothing stood between the wee poor cavemen of the North except those glorious English boys in their flying machines. Yep. This denigration of British wartime history is disgraceful really. Disgraceful to the brave men and women who fought in that war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 If Anas Sarwar and Keir Starmer are our saviours, then we are utterly Donald Ducked. One of these millionaires pays poverty wages, the other is a red tory who will enact precisely zero progressive policies. That means: - NO change to the House of Lords - NO move to PR elections - NO change to the benefit system including the disgusting 'rape clause' - NO rolling back some of the most damaging aspects of Brexit - NO re-nationalisation of the railways Is there anything left from his dishonest leadership application he hasn't rolled back from the time when he spoke like an actual left-wing politician and thanked Jeremy Corbyn? He's a charlatan and almost a comic parody of a labour politician. Even those who worked with him have seen right through his bullshit: https://www.politico.eu/article/keir-starmer-uk-labour-revealed-his-real-politics-by-ditching-left-wing-pledges-ally-says/ If that is all it takes to make you happy, more fool you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Did you vote for Corbyn, Gizmo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Starmer now backtracking on environmental intialtives like ULEZ. Ignorant, especially as one reason Labour lost Uxbridge to the Tories while favourites to win the seat was losing votes to the Greens. Is there nothing Starmer won't flipflop on? https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/labour-should-stick-to-their-guns-on-ulez-urges-tv-presenter-chris-packham-353122/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, BlueRiver said: No in 1940 when battles were raging in our skies and nothing stood between the wee poor cavemen of the North except those glorious English boys in their flying machines. Hundreds of non-Brits flew in the Battle of Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Gundermann said: Hundreds of non-Brits flew in the Battle of Britain. All under the direction of our glorious English overlords 😍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 It's like watching a load of people with PTSD arguing with each other after a feed of Dutch Gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Ulysses said: It's like watching a load of people with PTSD arguing with each other after a feed of Dutch Gold. If he's calmed down, I'm ready for another go! 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portable Badger Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Gizmo said: If Anas Sarwar and Keir Starmer are our saviours, then we are utterly Donald Ducked. One of these millionaires pays poverty wages, the other is a red tory who will enact precisely zero progressive policies. That means: - NO change to the House of Lords - NO move to PR elections - NO change to the benefit system including the disgusting 'rape clause' - NO rolling back some of the most damaging aspects of Brexit - NO re-nationalisation of the railways Is there anything left from his dishonest leadership application he hasn't rolled back from the time when he spoke like an actual left-wing politician and thanked Jeremy Corbyn? He's a charlatan and almost a comic parody of a labour politician. Even those who worked with him have seen right through his bullshit: https://www.politico.eu/article/keir-starmer-uk-labour-revealed-his-real-politics-by-ditching-left-wing-pledges-ally-says/ If that is all it takes to make you happy, more fool you. At least WM has a 2nd chamber that sense checks, debates and votes on all govt business. - we may not like who sits in the Lords or why they’re in the Lords to begin with but it’s a damned sight better than Holyrood’s lack of scrutiny with only one crappy chamber. Why more PR for the WM elections - look at Holyrood and how we ended up with those ars.eholes, the Greens, dictating I’ll conceived “progressive pish” cause NS & Humza were too weak to manage them. No thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Portable Badger said: At least WM has a 2nd chamber that sense checks, debates and votes on all govt business. - we may not like who sits in the Lords or why they’re in the Lords to begin with but it’s a damned sight better than Holyrood’s lack of scrutiny with only one crappy chamber. Why more PR for the WM elections - look at Holyrood and how we ended up with those ars.eholes, the Greens, dictating I’ll conceived “progressive pish” cause NS & Humza were too weak to manage them. No thanks Why would Holyrood have a second chamber? It's a limited power administration that can be closed down at Westminster's whim, not a national government. We should remember that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portable Badger Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Smithee said: Why would Holyrood have a second chamber? It's a limited power administration that can be closed down at Westminster's whim, not a national government. We should remember that. So it can practice for when it is independent perhaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Smithee said: Why would Holyrood have a second chamber? It's a limited power administration that can be closed down at Westminster's whim, not a national government. We should remember that. Has there been even the slightest indication at any time since the Scotland Act was passed that this was a remote possibility? Ultimately the King could refuse to give assent anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, Portable Badger said: At least WM has a 2nd chamber that sense checks, debates and votes on all govt business. - we may not like who sits in the Lords or why they’re in the Lords to begin with but it’s a damned sight better than Holyrood’s lack of scrutiny with only one crappy chamber. Why more PR for the WM elections - look at Holyrood and how we ended up with those ars.eholes, the Greens, dictating I’ll conceived “progressive pish” cause NS & Humza were too weak to manage them. No thanks Good posting . 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, Portable Badger said: At least WM has a 2nd chamber that sense checks, debates and votes on all govt business. - we may not like who sits in the Lords or why they’re in the Lords to begin with but it’s a damned sight better than Holyrood’s lack of scrutiny with only one crappy chamber. Why more PR for the WM elections - look at Holyrood and how we ended up with those ars.eholes, the Greens, dictating I’ll conceived “progressive pish” cause NS & Humza were too weak to manage them. No thanks You'd be happy for the tories to win elections forever more if they gerrymander enough boundaries? FPTP is an anachronistic, unrepresentative disgrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portable Badger Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Gizmo said: You'd be happy for the tories to win elections forever more if they gerrymander enough boundaries? FPTP is an anachronistic, unrepresentative disgrace. Cleaner, quicker and far less compromised crap policies whom ever wins the election. Enables the govt to be more decisive and implement the policies that they believe will be required to deliver. I don’t want an Italy, Netherlands or Israel type govt where the politicians ***** about creating complex unworkable short-term coalitions. To then repeat the actions again in a few months time. I understand the logic and argument for PR but for me it’s shite politics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Portable Badger said: So it can practice for when it is independent perhaps Pretty pointless then really, not to mention expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Gizmo said: You'd be happy for the tories to win elections forever more if they gerrymander enough boundaries? FPTP is an anachronistic, unrepresentative disgrace. Indeed. Every time the Tories are in they systematically change the boundaries on constituencies in their favour. They even went after the electoral commission to bring it under government control. And yet Keith shites it from PR. The biggest threat to Labour has and always will be their own stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said: Indeed. Every time the Tories are in they systematically change the boundaries on constituencies in their favour. They even went after the electoral commission to bring it under government control. And yet Keith shites it from PR. The biggest threat to Labour has and always will be their own stupidity. As we've learned through voting for them through thick & thin up here, they talk a good game and seldom deliver. Corbyn perhaps offered proper labour values but the right-wing press and Tufton St soon moved to ensure he would never threaten the billionaires and corporations. Maybe that's what spooked Starmer, I don't know. But the reach of the Murdochs of this world pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 The House of Lords fills no actual purpose, and hasn't since the 1911 and 1949 Acts that removed all its power. All it can do is send Bills back to the Commons but the Commons can simply force the bill through anyway. So why do we still bother with the Lords? Corruption and nepotism, that's why. It's the logical end point for dodgy bassas. Line enough pockets and you get a job for life which doesn't make you do any work, and any work you do there isn't worth a shite anyways. Get rid of it. Pay them all off. £1,000 for each day they attended over the last year. Should be cheap as feck to do it that way. Replace it with committees of experts in whatever industries are affected by the Bill in question. Business leaders, academics, lawyers and even trade union representatives. Give them the power to insert additional clauses, send Bills back to the Commons with addenda, or scrap the Bills entirely. Why do we put up with industry having to constantly scramble to mitigate shite laws passed by clueless pricks in Parliament? Get the people that actually know how things work involved. MPs will still have the power to make Bills and create Laws and to conduct election campaigns based on those proposed Bills but they will be vetted and overseen by the people who will be affected by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, Cade said: The House of Lords fills no actual purpose, and hasn't since the 1911 and 1949 Acts that removed all its power. All it can do is send Bills back to the Commons but the Commons can simply force the bill through anyway. So why do we still bother with the Lords? Corruption and nepotism, that's why. It's the logical end point for dodgy bassas. Line enough pockets and you get a job for life which doesn't make you do any work, and any work you do there isn't worth a shite anyways. Get rid of it. Pay them all off. £1,000 for each day they attended over the last year. Should be cheap as feck to do it that way. Replace it with committees of experts in whatever industries are affected by the Bill in question. Business leaders, academics, lawyers and even trade union representatives. Give them the power to insert additional clauses, send Bills back to the Commons with addenda, or scrap the Bills entirely. Why do we put up with industry having to constantly scramble to mitigate shite laws passed by clueless pricks in Parliament? Get the people that actually know how things work involved. MPs will still have the power to make Bills and create Laws and to conduct election campaigns based on those proposed Bills but they will be vetted and overseen by the people who will be affected by them. Sadly it's the British way having an unelected second chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Portable Badger said: Cleaner, quicker and far less compromised crap policies whom ever wins the election. Enables the govt to be more decisive and implement the policies that they believe will be required to deliver. I don’t want an Italy, Netherlands or Israel type govt where the politicians ***** about creating complex unworkable short-term coalitions. To then repeat the actions again in a few months time. I understand the logic and argument for PR but for me it’s shite politics Why is it "shite politics"? The Netherlands has an election coming up because its last coalition government broke up, but the two previous governments lasted for 4 years, the maximum term allowed under Dutch law. Is that really any different to the UK having stable governments but with May taking a solo run in 2017 and Johnson doing likewise in 2019? Meanwhile, the Netherlands has a higher standard of living than the UK. Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, and Belgium all have PR and coalition governments, and all have higher standards of living than the UK. In fact, almost all of Europe uses one form or another of PR, and most of them seem to be managing their affairs alright. As for Italy? Italy has had six general elections in the 21st century. The UK has had seven. And 75% of Italy's parliament is elected using FPTP anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 56 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Why is it "shite politics"? The Netherlands has an election coming up because its last coalition government broke up, but the two previous governments lasted for 4 years, the maximum term allowed under Dutch law. Is that really any different to the UK having stable governments but with May taking a solo run in 2017 and Johnson doing likewise in 2019? Meanwhile, the Netherlands has a higher standard of living than the UK. Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, and Belgium all have PR and coalition governments, and all have higher standards of living than the UK. In fact, almost all of Europe uses one form or another of PR, and most of them seem to be managing their affairs alright. As for Italy? Italy has had six general elections in the 21st century. The UK has had seven. And 75% of Italy's parliament is elected using FPTP anyway. Don't you know that our unionist supporters are always right Uly? UK is the bestest at everything and you're not allowed to make your own decisions, they must be made for you old chap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said: Don't you know that our unionist supporters are always right Uly? UK is the bestest at everything and you're not allowed to make your own decisions, they must be made for you old chap! I know unionists who are also supporters of PR, so it's not necessarily that. Spain, by the way, has PR, but also has a system and parties that are strongly opposed to Basque and Catalan independence. On a separate but related note, the Spanish general election results tonight show a clear trend away from the fringes. The hard-left and hard-right both lost seats, while the centre-left and (in particular) the centre-right gained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Viva El Torries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portable Badger Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 7 hours ago, Ulysses said: Why is it "shite politics"? The Netherlands has an election coming up because its last coalition government broke up, but the two previous governments lasted for 4 years, the maximum term allowed under Dutch law. Is that really any different to the UK having stable governments but with May taking a solo run in 2017 and Johnson doing likewise in 2019? Meanwhile, the Netherlands has a higher standard of living than the UK. Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, and Belgium all have PR and coalition governments, and all have higher standards of living than the UK. In fact, almost all of Europe uses one form or another of PR, and most of them seem to be managing their affairs alright. As for Italy? Italy has had six general elections in the 21st century. The UK has had seven. And 75% of Italy's parliament is elected using FPTP anyway. The reason that I referred to it as shite politics is that imo you can end up with watered-down, compromised policies that invariably provide a disproportionate prominence to a very minor party and their key policies. Ergo the Greens here in Scotland - minor party, minor vote share and yet they have the govt by the knackers and, one could very reasonably argue, is currently driving this govt’s whole platform of policies. Look at Spain yesterday - a clear winner but just shy of an overall majority with their collation partners, all the talk is the leading party has no chance being able to form a govt and so there will be another election in 3-4 months. Where’s the democracy there and do you really want a hiatus of government? No system is perfect but for me the PR system is crap. Others will disagree which is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 8 hours ago, Ulysses said: Why is it "shite politics"? The Netherlands has an election coming up because its last coalition government broke up, but the two previous governments lasted for 4 years, the maximum term allowed under Dutch law. Is that really any different to the UK having stable governments but with May taking a solo run in 2017 and Johnson doing likewise in 2019? Meanwhile, the Netherlands has a higher standard of living than the UK. Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, and Belgium all have PR and coalition governments, and all have higher standards of living than the UK. In fact, almost all of Europe uses one form or another of PR, and most of them seem to be managing their affairs alright. As for Italy? Italy has had six general elections in the 21st century. The UK has had seven. And 75% of Italy's parliament is elected using FPTP anyway. A very informative post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portable Badger Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 9 hours ago, Cade said: The House of Lords fills no actual purpose, and hasn't since the 1911 and 1949 Acts that removed all its power. All it can do is send Bills back to the Commons but the Commons can simply force the bill through anyway. So why do we still bother with the Lords? Corruption and nepotism, that's why. It's the logical end point for dodgy bassas. Line enough pockets and you get a job for life which doesn't make you do any work, and any work you do there isn't worth a shite anyways. Get rid of it. Pay them all off. £1,000 for each day they attended over the last year. Should be cheap as feck to do it that way. Replace it with committees of experts in whatever industries are affected by the Bill in question. Business leaders, academics, lawyers and even trade union representatives. Give them the power to insert additional clauses, send Bills back to the Commons with addenda, or scrap the Bills entirely. Why do we put up with industry having to constantly scramble to mitigate shite laws passed by clueless pricks in Parliament? Get the people that actually know how things work involved. MPs will still have the power to make Bills and create Laws and to conduct election campaigns based on those proposed Bills but they will be vetted and overseen by the people who will be affected by them. I’m not going to run through your points one by one but off the top of my head and in no particular order- Your vehement hatred of the HoL is somewhat clouded and confused - - You allude they are unelected toffs and yet you propose appointing unelected “experts” to review, amend and scrap bills - who elected them to have such a sway and power? - you state that iyo they only ask for amendments to be made and it gets railroaded thru - no they are amended bills that pass thru. - you imply that only your new ‘experts’ should write the bills. - who voted for these people and why have a govt in place in the first place then? - you demand experts from industry, academia, TU, etc.... to be these “experts”. Tell me aren’t there huge numbers of Lords & Dames like Lord Winston, Lord Sugar, Lord Bill Morris (TU leader), Dame Flo Benjamin, Dame Kelly Holmes, etc, etc, etc....? Experts are consulted during the Bill drafting in the current system before it goes thru the Houses. - despite all their sins many MP have had a variety of expert experience before becoming MPs. Isn’t Keir a Barrister for instance? Many with TU, industry, legal, military and civilian backgrounds. I think many of your proposals merely replicate what is already in existence (Barr your probable desire to have the hereditary peers burnt at the stake) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Portable Badger said: I’m not going to run through your points one by one but off the top of my head and in no particular order- Your vehement hatred of the HoL is somewhat clouded and confused - - You allude they are unelected toffs and yet you propose appointing unelected “experts” to review, amend and scrap bills - who elected them to have such a sway and power? - you state that iyo they only ask for amendments to be made and it gets railroaded thru - no they are amended bills that pass thru. - you imply that only your new ‘experts’ should write the bills. - who voted for these people and why have a govt in place in the first place then? - you demand experts from industry, academia, TU, etc.... to be these “experts”. Tell me aren’t there huge numbers of Lords & Dames like Lord Winston, Lord Sugar, Lord Bill Morris (TU leader), Dame Flo Benjamin, Dame Kelly Holmes, etc, etc, etc....? Experts are consulted during the Bill drafting in the current system before it goes thru the Houses. - despite all their sins many MP have had a variety of expert experience before becoming MPs. Isn’t Keir a Barrister for instance? Many with TU, industry, legal, military and civilian backgrounds. I think many of your proposals merely replicate what is already in existence (Barr your probable desire to have the hereditary peers burnt at the stake) Good reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Portable Badger said: The reason that I referred to it as shite politics is that imo you can end up with watered-down, compromised policies that invariably provide a disproportionate prominence to a very minor party and their key policies. Ergo the Greens here in Scotland - minor party, minor vote share and yet they have the govt by the knackers and, one could very reasonably argue, is currently driving this govt’s whole platform of policies. Look at Spain yesterday - a clear winner but just shy of an overall majority with their collation partners, all the talk is the leading party has no chance being able to form a govt and so there will be another election in 3-4 months. Where’s the democracy there and do you really want a hiatus of government? No system is perfect but for me the PR system is crap. Others will disagree which is fine. That's patent nonsense. The tempoary shelving/ rethinks of the National Marine Parks and Recycling schemes are proof of that. One could also add the slow progress towards greater community land use powers and devolved powers to local authorities. The Greens know they have influence, obviously, but are still aware that without the support of the SNP, they wouldn't be anywhere near implementing any of their policies. That said, I know one or two people who say the Green Party are closer to them politically but have joined the SNP as they're the party that get things done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 21 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Excellent stuff Fabulous..... Your on a roll today...keep it coming...im chortling here............ He made a james hunt of himself with his " argument" he would be best to try and let it go. Pretend it didn't happen. Lacks humility though, Racist Bill Maher doesn't like other people being anti-racist. Shock. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/arts/television/bill-maher-n-word.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, Hmfc1965 said: Ultimately the King could refuse to give assent anyway. Has there been even the slightest indication at any time that this was a remote possibility? Edited July 24, 2023 by Smithee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 It basically killed of Sturgeons career . What a ludicrous hill for Labour to potentially lose the next election on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: It basically killed of Sturgeons career . What a ludicrous hill for Labour to potentially lose the next election on . However to be fair to Labour they are attempting to not make the same errors as the Scot’s Govt did . I’ll give them that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 14 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: It basically killed of Sturgeons career . What a ludicrous hill for Labour to potentially lose the next election on . Keith is a man who changes his views about as regularly as you do James. GB News eh? 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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