Is there anything in politics more shit than the Labour Party?

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Imagine the nick of the country if and when the Tories start another long cycle of power.  The calibre of person that inhalbits the parliamentary party is in the sewer and will get worse.  

And yet the guy we're meant to give a shot to,  in the hope he sticks around long enough to make a difference, cannot or will not differentiate himself or his party's policies from the Tories.

 

He won't even be honest about the insanity of Brexit FFS.

 

To contextualise just how shit starmer is, he's taking a kicking as 'Sir Kid Starver' and its not even a Labour policy rather an abhorrent Tory one. 

 

If Sunak announced tomorrow that if reelected the Tories would lie, steal and sell everything off he'd instantly be more honest and credible than Keith

[Costanza]

3 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

This is a very good post. You would have to be one heartless b'stard to support this policy which is wrong on moral and economic grounds. Do we stop the 'feckless' from sending their third kid to school next because it's a burden on the state? 

I get that whoever has to clear up the mess has to grow the economy but that has to be driven by a basic premise of decency. 

The thing is, it's not even a new policy,it's a reversal of a Tory one that Starmer and Shadow Ministers have used terms like inhumane to describe it.

This seems more of a political decision rather than an economic or moral one.

Labour will likely point to their arbitrary fiscal rules (which are more about political and internal messaging) but what really spooks the BoE and markets are surprises and unannounced fiscal policies.

I really don't see how this decision falls into that category.

 

[Victorian]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

And yet the guy we're meant to give a shot to,  in the hope he sticks around long enough to make a difference, cannot or will not differentiate himself or his party's policies from the Tories.

 

He won't even be honest about the insanity of Brexit FFS.

 

To contextualise just how shit starmer is, he's taking a kicking as 'Sir Kid Starver' and its not even a Labour policy rather an abhorrent Tory one. 

 

If Sunak announced tomorrow that if reelected the Tories would lie, steal and sell everything off he'd instantly be more honest and credible than Keith

 

They're avoiding every conceivable trap,  culture war and perceived 'socialist' policy commitment.  It's been patently obvious for many months.  Not "scaring the horses" as a poster said.  

 

They've won the next election as it stands.  They're doing the political equivalent of a football team managing the game out for the win.  When they get it they're going to want to stay in.  The only way to stay in is to begin to make a difference for people.  They can only begin to achieve that by developing their policy trajectory and gradually introduce ideas,  policies,  ideology that would be hazardous right now.

 

They'll hopefully make gradual progress and,  crucially,  people will only begin to believe Labour are worth sticking with and worth trusting on some of the more contentious things as they demonstrate some competence.  Some of the issues within Brexit will be revisited eventually.  A trusted Labour government will need to develop that carefully and allow people to get used to the idea.

 

 

[Jeffros Furios]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

They're avoiding every conceivable trap,  culture war and perceived 'socialist' policy commitment.  It's been patently obvious for many months.  Not "scaring the horses" as a poster said.  

 

They've won the next election as it stands.  They're doing the political equivalent of a football team managing the game out for the win.  When they get it they're going to want to stay in.  The only way to stay in is to begin to make a difference for people.  They can only begin to achieve that by developing their policy trajectory and gradually introduce ideas,  policies,  ideology that would be hazardous right now.

 

They'll hopefully make gradual progress and,  crucially,  people will only begin to believe Labour are worth sticking with and worth trusting on some of the more contentious things as they demonstrate some competence.  Some of the issues within Brexit will be revisited eventually.  A trusted Labour government will need to develop that carefully and allow people to get used to the idea.

 

 

Good post Vic , it's pretty straightforward continue with this rampant corruption and destruction of services or have a change to return to some sort of normality .

 

And independence ain't happening and the uber nationalists really need to accept this. 

[Mikey1874]

21 hours ago, Gundermann said:

#SirKidStarver trending too. What a midden by Labour.

 

 

That was really mean of the Labour Government to bring in the benefits cap and other limits including child benefit.

 

Quite clever too. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Good post Vic , it's pretty straightforward continue with this rampant corruption and destruction of services or have a change to return to some sort of normality .

 

And independence ain't happening and the uber nationalists really need to accept this. 

Not for a while.

[Gundermann]

2 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Good post Vic , it's pretty straightforward continue with this rampant corruption and destruction of services or have a change to return to some sort of normality .

 

And independence ain't happening and the uber nationalists really need to accept this. 

 

 

That in itself is probably the strongest argument for independence.

[Portable Badger]

On 17/07/2023 at 11:28, Gundermann said:

This is Labour. Cynical and dishonest.

 

Worse, they're powerless. Scottish Labour apparently are a tad pissed off at Starmer changing his tune. However... London must be obeyed.

 

No Scotland, you can't have these laws devolved but, if a Tory or Labour govt in London comes up with shit legislation that hammers the poor, then Scot Gov should mitigate it....

 

If I’ve understood your post correctly (sorry I’ve been quickly flicking thru them to catch up) you seem to be saying Scotland doesn’t have the devolved power to change the 2 child benefits limit.                

 

We do.

 

If the Scot Gov want to pay the same benefit to families with more than 2 kids then it can. It has had these powers for years & years.

 

Today at WM Stephen Flynn confirmed Scotland has those powers right now but he also declared the SNP won’t increase it for more than two children unless England does.

 

It seems that when it comes to having to pay for something then none of the ‘progressive socialists’ want to either.

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

They're avoiding every conceivable trap,  culture war and perceived 'socialist' policy commitment.  It's been patently obvious for many months.  Not "scaring the horses" as a poster said.  

 

They've won the next election as it stands.  They're doing the political equivalent of a football team managing the game out for the win.  When they get it they're going to want to stay in.  The only way to stay in is to begin to make a difference for people.  They can only begin to achieve that by developing their policy trajectory and gradually introduce ideas,  policies,  ideology that would be hazardous right now.

 

They'll hopefully make gradual progress and,  crucially,  people will only begin to believe Labour are worth sticking with and worth trusting on some of the more contentious things as they demonstrate some competence.  Some of the issues within Brexit will be revisited eventually.  A trusted Labour government will need to develop that carefully and allow people to get used to the idea.

 

 

 

After 13 years of austerity, nepotism and rampant corruption what people want is a clear alternative. Another path if you will.

 

They're not getting it. What they're getting is a guy who is saying;

 

Interest rates? We'll follow the chancellors policy

energy prices too high? we won't tackle that. it's too controversial.

Protest laws too severe? No we'll see that one through

Water companies ripping the piss? The market will sort itself out?

Lift 250,000 kids out of poverty? Not on my watch.

Brexit? We'll make it work (possibly the most banal statement ever uttered by a sentient person)

Proportional Rep? Nope. We're happy to keep the seat warm for 5 years until you vote the Tories back in again.

 

Say what you like about Blair but at leats he had a set of balls on him to campaign and win a landslide on a clear policy agenda from the get go.

 

This eunuch's only attribute is he's not them. 

 

I could go on and on and

[Gundermann]

27 minutes ago, Portable Badger said:

If I’ve understood your post correctly (sorry I’ve been quickly flicking thru them to catch up) you seem to be saying Scotland doesn’t have the devolved power to change the 2 child benefits limit.                

 

We do.

 

If the Scot Gov want to pay the same benefit to families with more than 2 kids then it can. It has had these powers for years & years.

 

Today at WM Stephen Flynn confirmed Scotland has those powers right now but he also declared the SNP won’t increase it for more than two children unless England does.

 

It seems that when it comes to having to pay for something then none of the ‘progressive socialists’ want to either.

 

That's the point of the above posts. We can mitigate it but have to take the money from somewhere. We don't have our hands on all the levers of economic power. Why should we always be mitigating shit legislation from Westminster?

[Portable Badger]

1 minute ago, Gundermann said:

 

That's the point of the above posts. We can mitigate it but have to take the money from somewhere. We don't have our hands on all the levers of economic power. Why should we always be mitigating shit legislation from Westminster?

Thanks. That’s why I was asking for clarity just in case I’d missed the point.

 

I guess it all comes down to priorities on what spend it on really. Sure we’d all love to pay for everything but no govt anywhere in the world can do that.

 

Letting the SNP have all the levers - no friggin chance. They can’t manage a pretendy coonsil let alone an independent country. I gave them the benefit of my vote early doors and they’ve chuffed it up chronic. Complete incompetence  - I’d never do it again.

 

Some friends based down in England get niggled cos of our  free Uni fees, free prescription charges, baby boxes, free buses & bus passes, etc... They don’t get these benefits. These are the thing the SG have decided to focus on.

 

But the SG now face a £1Bn Blackhole - so do we keep giving these things away to multi-millionaires or do we target the benefits to those that really need it?

Trouble is as always - difficult & hugely unpopular to take a benefit off someone once you’ve given them something 

[BlueRiver]

So the SNP can mitigate legislation that they find poor but won't. 

 

Yet its Labour thats the issue. Righto. 

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

So the SNP can mitigate legislation that they find poor but won't. 

 

Yet its Labour thats the issue. Righto. 

That's an interesting take.

 

The SNP can ony mitigate the abhorrent policies of the Westminster Tory Government if they can re-appropriate funding to do so.

 

Labour can choose to not continue such policies but it would appear they won't do that.

 

The Tories are the problem and Labour are clearly not the solution with Keith at the wheel. 

[BlueRiver]

35 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

That's an interesting take.

 

The SNP can ony mitigate the abhorrent policies of the Westminster Tory Government if they can re-appropriate funding to do so.

 

Labour can choose to not continue such policies but it would appear they won't do that.

 

The Tories are the problem and Labour are clearly not the solution with Keith at the wheel. 

 

Well the SNP can currently do something about it. The Tories implemented it. Perhaps the SNP should put their big boy breeks on and make spending or taxation decisions with the powers they have. 

 

Yet its Labour getting the criticism for a statement that didn't even outright say he wouldn't scrap it and didn't say he would retain it. 

 

 

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Good post Vic , it's pretty straightforward continue with this rampant corruption and destruction of services or have a change to return to some sort of normality .

 

And independence ain't happening and the uber nationalists really need to accept this. 

Oh it's happening.  And very soon.

[Portable Badger]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Oh it's happening.  And very soon.

What’s happening and what channel is it on?

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

So the SNP can mitigate legislation that they find poor but won't. 

 

Yet its Labour thats the issue. Righto. 

Scottish child payment for the families struggling.  £25 a week, for each kid under 16. So please stop with the pish, they already do mitigate it.

[Victorian]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

After 13 years of austerity, nepotism and rampant corruption what people want is a clear alternative. Another path if you will.

 

They're not getting it. What they're getting is a guy who is saying;

 

Interest rates? We'll follow the chancellors policy

energy prices too high? we won't tackle that. it's too controversial.

Protest laws too severe? No we'll see that one through

Water companies ripping the piss? The market will sort itself out?

Lift 250,000 kids out of poverty? Not on my watch.

Brexit? We'll make it work (possibly the most banal statement ever uttered by a sentient person)

Proportional Rep? Nope. We're happy to keep the seat warm for 5 years until you vote the Tories back in again.

 

Say what you like about Blair but at leats he had a set of balls on him to campaign and win a landslide on a clear policy agenda from the get go.

 

This eunuch's only attribute is he's not them. 

 

I could go on and on and

 

He's not saying much now anyway,  and I can understand why.  A salesman who makes the sale immediately stops pitching.

 

This is an age of populism and people basing everything on totemic issues based on their own prejudices and ignorance.  The time to develop the policy agenda is once the feet are under the table.  It's not that far removed from how the Tories always campaign,  and win.

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, Portable Badger said:

What’s happening and what channel is it on?

Hunt the Scots born britnat . Blair Drummond live. 👍

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Scottish child payment for the families struggling.  £25 a week, for each kid under 16. So please stop with the pish, they already do mitigate it.

 

And they can mitigate it further if they so choose. It will require difficult funding decisions. Welcome to being a big boy party.

[ri Alban]

And the bedroom tax is mitigated. We pay a bit more for reason. To help folk get by.

[BlueRiver]

Just now, ri Alban said:

And the bedroom tax is mitigated. We pay a bit more for reason. To help folk get by.

 

Which parties can currently do anything about it and which party has no power in the UK currently yet is being blamed? 

 

 

[Portable Badger]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Hunt the Scots born britnat . Blair Drummond live. 👍

😂👍🏻

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

 

And they can mitigate it further if they so choose. It will require difficult funding decisions. Welcome to being a big boy party.

Give the sg full power and let's build a better society. 

 

👍

[ri Alban]

Just now, BlueRiver said:

 

Which parties can currently do anything about it and which party has no power in the UK currently yet is being blamed? 

 

 

Nothing to do with power. It's the sales pish and they seem to selling the same bs as the current ramjets in power at wm.

[ri Alban]

Terrified of mentioning anything,  in case he fecks it up. But he already has. And if the inflation disappears, England will forget and vote Tory.

[BlueRiver]

B

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Nothing to do with power. It's the sales pish and they seem to selling the same bs as the current ramjets in power at wm.

 

It's everything to do with power. The SNP have certain power to handle this in Scotland but would rather fund populist give aways each election time or greet about never having enough cash. 

 

The Tories brought the policy in. 

 

Starmer said not much about anything yet you're all on here doing the Tories dirty work for them with the they're aw the same, we might as well vote Tory nonsense. 

 

 

[Portable Badger]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

And the bedroom tax is mitigated. We pay a bit more for reason. To help folk get by.

Bedroom Tax - Soon to be replaced by the Conservatory Tax, Extension Tax and Loft Conversion Taxes by the SNP I hear though as a possible solution to closing some the £1Bn blackhole.

 

[ri Alban]

Oh and people who kept us in the UK and out of the EU, are now begging us to help them get the Tory out. You voted for it, own it. We'll concentrate on Holyrood. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by ri Alban

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Oh and people who kept us in the UK and out of the EU, are now begging us to help them get the Tory out. You voted for it, own it. We'll concentrate on Holyrood. 

 

You'd have had us out the EU in 2014 by default. We'll ignore that though. 

 

Inconvenient. Like the Tartan Tories spending years working with the Tories to get budgets through amongst other things. Or the entire wing of the party they venerate that had designs on us being a 0% corporation tax haven. 

 

Ignored all that when you kept filing in and sticking a nice wee cross by SNP didn't yi. 

[BlueRiver]

Bottom line is half of you have a vested interest in keeping the Tories in power because you get to carry on with the next stage of poor wee Scotland and use it to try to drum up support for indy. 

 

Either that or you're as dense as all the Mail readers you slate by carrying out the Tory propaganda work for them. Exactly the same as the fuds in the US that genuinely cannot see that Democrats benefit them more than Republicans and think "aw they're aw the same". 

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

The more the Tory win, the more it will push independence, i'm happy enough with that. The saviours of Scotland will protect us from the very worst of the Tory. 

The britnats of Scottish Labour, will just need to accept that we aren't the same people anymore. You chose to be British,  us scots will just keep our heads high and push for independence. Even if it means partition. 

[Gundermann]

2 hours ago, Portable Badger said:

Thanks. That’s why I was asking for clarity just in case I’d missed the point.

 

I guess it all comes down to priorities on what spend it on really. Sure we’d all love to pay for everything but no govt anywhere in the world can do that.

 

Letting the SNP have all the levers - no friggin chance. They can’t manage a pretendy coonsil let alone an independent country. I gave them the benefit of my vote early doors and they’ve chuffed it up chronic. Complete incompetence  - I’d never do it again.

 

Some friends based down in England get niggled cos of our  free Uni fees, free prescription charges, baby boxes, free buses & bus passes, etc... They don’t get these benefits. These are the thing the SG have decided to focus on.

 

But the SG now face a £1Bn Blackhole - so do we keep giving these things away to multi-millionaires or do we target the benefits to those that really need it?

Trouble is as always - difficult & hugely unpopular to take a benefit off someone once you’ve given them something 

 

Why do you think the SNP would run Scotland post-independence?

 

Good. People use and enjoy these things. Makes sense for it to be funded by the taxation of most of us rather than pay more to private pirates.

 

What blackhole? That's not possible. ScotGov are duty bound to balance the books hence why there's always some underspend. Do you know what the UK's debt is currently btw? And, more to the point, how come Norway is so rich - and egalitarian - and the UK so bankrupt despite both having discovered oil in the 70s?

[BlueRiver]

20 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The more the Tory win, the more it will push independence, i'm happy enough with that. The saviours of Scotland will protect us from the very worst of the Tory. 

The britnats of Scottish Labour, will just need to accept that we aren't the same people anymore. You chose to be British,  us scots will just keep our heads high and push for independence. Even if it means partition. 

 

I agree. Partition. We'll keep the south and east and we'll just wall all you mutants in through West. 

[BlueRiver]

Then nuke the dump. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Well the SNP can currently do something about it. The Tories implemented it. Perhaps the SNP should put their big boy breeks on and make spending or taxation decisions with the powers they have. 

 

Yet its Labour getting the criticism for a statement that didn't even outright say he wouldn't scrap it and didn't say he would retain it. 

 

 

It's what they have been doing for the 13 years the Tories have been in power. 

 

There's been a lot to mitigate in that time. 

[BlueRiver]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It's what they have been doing for the 13 years the Tories have been in power. 

 

There's been a lot to mitigate in that time. 

 

Shall we boot the Tories out then or just greet that they're aw the same and carry on with the same nightmare? 

 

However to deflect that it's "Sir Kid Starver" is blaming the one party out the three with literally no power to do anything (outside Wales I guess but I don't know if the Senedd has those powers I'm not very familiar with the extent of Welsh devo). 

 

He at no point said "I will carry on this policy" just as he didn't say he would automatically repeal it. Partly because he's not a buffoon and knows where Labour's weaknesses lie with the electorate - economic trust. He gave an answer talking about rebuilding an economy to support public spending. Hee haw wrong with that unless you're into Tory or SNP fantasy economics. 

[Portable Badger]

54 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Why do you think the SNP would run Scotland post-independence?

 

Good. People use and enjoy these things. Makes sense for it to be funded by the taxation of most of us rather than pay more to private pirates.

 

What blackhole? That's not possible. ScotGov are duty bound to balance the books hence why there's always some underspend. Do you know what the UK's debt is currently btw? And, more to the point, how come Norway is so rich - and egalitarian - and the UK so bankrupt despite both having discovered oil in the 70s?

‘Cause they have proved for 16 yrs they’re not capable - they have not focused on driving the core factor - the Scottish economy. While you’ll say “we don’t have the levers” there are many things we could have adopted/introduced to stimulate the economy, attract value added private sector jobs,etc...  The education system is a mess, we stopped funding tertiary training & learning massively,  National Police, Capital projects (Bridge/Prestwick/Ferries/A9/etc), etc.....      We have focused on giveaways to everyone regardless of income - surely we could have just targeted the spending to those in most urgent need that would help drive child poverty.

 

Finance Secretary Shona Robison appears out of her depth as £1 billion budget black hole looms – Murdo Fraser

The gap between Scottish Government spending and income could reach a staggering £4 billion by 2027-28

 

 

In terms of Norway they did exactly what Shetlands did - invest, spend on targeted projects and generally not spend it all at once.  I agree the UK seems to have spunked it all and ended up with a 300% govt v GDP.  Yet there are still people now calling on us to spend, spend, spend and spend even more.

[The Mighty Thor]

33 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Shall we boot the Tories out then or just greet that they're aw the same and carry on with the same nightmare? 

 

However to deflect that it's "Sir Kid Starver" is blaming the one party out the three with literally no power to do anything (outside Wales I guess but I don't know if the Senedd has those powers I'm not very familiar with the extent of Welsh devo). 

 

He at no point said "I will carry on this policy" just as he didn't say he would automatically repeal it. Partly because he's not a buffoon and knows where Labour's weaknesses lie with the electorate - economic trust. He gave an answer talking about rebuilding an economy to support public spending. Hee haw wrong with that unless you're into Tory or SNP fantasy economics. 

Quite a bit to unpick. 

 

Without any difference in policy platform we may well end up with the same so plenty to 'greet' about. 

 

The 'Sir Kid Starver' thing is another brick in the wall of Keith's shitness. He could knock it on the head but he doesn't. It doesn't bode well for when the Tory MSM get properly started on him.

 

Fantasy economics is not addressing the 4% hole in your GDP before you take into account the BoE running amok. 

 

'He's keeping his powder dry'? He might get a chance to use it. 

[BlueRiver]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Quite a bit to unpick. 

 

Without any difference in policy platform we may well end up with the same so plenty to 'greet' about. 

 

The 'Sir Kid Starver' thing is another brick in the wall of Keith's shitness. He could knock it on the head but he doesn't. It doesn't bode well for when the Tory MSM get properly started on him.

 

Fantasy economics is not addressing the 4% hole in your GDP before you take into account the BoE running amok. 

 

'He's keeping his powder dry'? He might get a chance to use it. 

 

The "Tory MSM" will lay into him regardless. 

 

If he said all folk want him to say on here they'd be running headlines already about Mr Starmer and his magical money hose. 

 

Brexit is done for the time being.

 

I didnt like the outcome of that referendum anymore than you did but its where we are. Remind me Labour's Brexit platform in 2019 and the result of the 2019 election? 

 

If Scotland had gone independent 10 years ago we'd have been punted out of the EU and would've been making serious funding decisions with who knows what impact on our GDP. I'd like to hope even then though that parties would accept the settled constitutional will of Scotland and at least try and have a go at making it work for a while. That's all Labour are doing with regards to Brexit. 

 

[Mikey1874]

SNP and UK Labour are agreeing.

 

Child Benefit can't be changed until the economy improves. 

[BlueRiver]

As for the BoE running amok? They've raised interest rates. So have central banks all across the world. They're politically independent. 

 

Do you want the central bank to be brought back under direct government control or something? 

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

SNP and UK Labour are agreeing.

 

Child Benefit can't be changed until the economy improves. 

 

Yet only one party seems to attract ire for it on here whilst the other get to hoor their big grievance bus up the length and breadth of the country pointing and blaming everyone else. 

[The Mighty Thor]

26 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

As for the BoE running amok? They've raised interest rates. So have central banks all across the world. They're politically independent. 

 

Do you want the central bank to be brought back under direct government control or something? 

Central banks in the G7 haven't gone as far as the BoE but then again other central banks have started at -4% and then had 70 billion of magic money foisted onto their debt burden in a weekend. 

I wouldn't let that government get the tv control. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 hours ago, Portable Badger said:

Bedroom Tax - Soon to be replaced by the Conservatory Tax, Extension Tax and Loft Conversion Taxes by the SNP I hear though as a possible solution to closing some the £1Bn blackhole.

 

I keep seeing this - and not defending SG/SNP financial management which has hardly been clever - but how does that compare to UKG 'black hole'?   And how do either this administration or the next close it? 

[micole]

11 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I keep seeing this - and not defending SG/SNP financial management which has hardly been clever - but how does that compare to UKG 'black hole'?   And how do either this administration or the next close it? 

"Black hole" I thought the SG had to work within its budget and was not allowed to borrow or overspend, if I'm wrong could someone please explain to me how it works.....🤷‍♂️

[i wish jj was my dad]

Just now, micole said:

"Black hole" I thought the SG had to work within its budget and was not allowed to borrow or overspend, if I'm wrong could someone please explain to me how it works.....🤷‍♂️

I did a google search and they have limited borrowing powers of £450m per annum to supplement capital investment and it is capped at £3b.  How does that compare to UKG?

[micole]

7 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I did a google search and they have limited borrowing powers of £450m per annum to supplement capital investment and it is capped at £3b.  How does that compare to UKG?

TBH I had to google it as well ( as I'm not a financial wizard like some on here 😉).....it would seem the SG borrowed a fraction of the £450 mill ( 140 odd) in 21/22 so this billions of a black hole is baffling to me.

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, micole said:

TBH I had to google it as well ( as I'm not a financial wizard like some on here 😉).....it would seem the SG borrowed a fraction of the £450 mill ( 140 odd) in 21/22 so this billions of a black hole is baffling to me.

It could well be a £1b black hole but in terms of government debt that can't be anywhere close to UKG debt which runs into trillions I think.  I'm sure it is a lot more complicated than that but even a 3b debt doesn't sound that outrageous in that context. 

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, Portable Badger said:

‘Cause they have proved for 16 yrs they’re not capable - they have not focused on driving the core factor - the Scottish economy. While you’ll say “we don’t have the levers” there are many things we could have adopted/introduced to stimulate the economy, attract value added private sector jobs,etc...  The education system is a mess, we stopped funding tertiary training & learning massively,  National Police, Capital projects (Bridge/Prestwick/Ferries/A9/etc), etc.....      We have focused on giveaways to everyone regardless of income - surely we could have just targeted the spending to those in most urgent need that would help drive child poverty.

 

Finance Secretary Shona Robison appears out of her depth as £1 billion budget black hole looms – Murdo Fraser

The gap between Scottish Government spending and income could reach a staggering £4 billion by 2027-28

 

 

In terms of Norway they did exactly what Shetlands did - invest, spend on targeted projects and generally not spend it all at once.  I agree the UK seems to have spunked it all and ended up with a 300% govt v GDP.  Yet there are still people now calling on us to spend, spend, spend and spend even more.

 

Sorry, but just because Murdo Fraser says something, it doesn't mean it's true. Scotland has much of it's 'expenditure' spent on its behalf by the UK govt.

 

Where does Murdo get his figures from?

 

Here's Richard Murphy on GERS:

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/08/21/the-gers-data-is-ludicrous-scotland-does-not-generate-60-of-the-uks-net-fiscal-deficit/

 

Shetland doesn't get the revenue from oil, the UK exchequer does in the same way that Norway, and not Bergen, get's the income from Norwegian oil fields. Shetland's council may benefit from agreements with oil companies and central government but that's it. Yes, the UK has pished the money up the wall. Norway didn't. Norway also has a small population that benefits more than the 55m-odd in the UK. Despite the high taxes in Norway, I saw some figures that showed people are better off once you include higher income and high quality public services.

 

Again, it's not about the SNP. Who is better placed to use our resources - us or the charlatans in London? If it's the latter, why don't other small countries in Europe choose similar? Tell a Norwegian that Norway would be better giving Stockholm or Berlin almost full control over its economy - taking all their wealth and giving a portion back plus with no recourse to voluntarily leave that 'union'  - and they'll laugh at you.