***** The Hearts B super thread - Liam Fox confirmed as coach ******

[jamboinglasgow]

5 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

How many goals has Kirk got this season? Seems to be on the scoresheet pretty regularly. 

 

scored 11 goals in 17 games, bearing in mind he only scored his first goal of the season on his 6th appearance (so he has scored 11 goals in his last 11 games.)

[RobNox]

3 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Surely worth giving him a place on the bench instead of a youngster from Newcastle?

[Bob Loblaw]

3 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

scored 11 goals in 17 games, bearing in mind he only scored his first goal of the season on his 6th appearance (so he has scored 11 goals in his last 11 games.)

Good stuff, that's a great run. Hopefully keeps it up and maybe gets a loan to a higher level next season.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

10 hours ago, RobNox said:

What’s so funny mate?

[Mikey1874]

 

[Mikey1874]

 

[jamboinglasgow]

20 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

good to see the club actually trying to step up coverage of the academy. Something they have been poor with (doesn't help they put up a video on twitter and youtube last month showing the best goals from the academy (both boys and girls) only for the video to be faulty after 20 seconds, they took it down but never put a fixed video up.)

 

Also it was interesting hearing Gerry Mallon on Scarves around the funnel talk about how the Foundation board were given an update on the academy, saying there has been heavy changes made since Frankie McAvoy took over the academy, saying the big change is an emphasis on player development over producing teams who are there to win trophies. I know that may sound obvious but the way he talked about it suggested a big change.

[Footballfirst]

5 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

good to see the club actually trying to step up coverage of the academy. Something they have been poor with (doesn't help they put up a video on twitter and youtube last month showing the best goals from the academy (both boys and girls) only for the video to be faulty after 20 seconds, they took it down but never put a fixed video up.)

It's a welcome change to see the new signings named (2013s). There used to be named photos of each player, together with the club they were recruited from, on a wall at the Academy. I hope they reinstate it as it was a good source of information. Other than that it is usually dependent on asking parents the names of other kids or trying to get a copy of the team lines from a scout.

 

Of the 14 x 2013s signed, 12 were born in the first half of the year. I know there is a physical/mental developmental advantage for those born shortly after the age cut off date, but I can't help thinking that we are missing out on a fair number of talented kids. The imbalance is repeated at all age groups until you get to the first team, when development age is no longer a significant factor.

 

 

[BM1874]

On 28/01/2023 at 23:39, jamboinglasgow said:

 

he also scored a cracking goal against hibs yesterday (though Hearts lost 4-2 apparently.) If you go on jamboyouthreports instagram and see their stories you can see the goal

 

 

have a video of the goal, but unable to upload it annoyingly. Great touch on the chest and hit

[BM1874]

6 hours ago, BM1874 said:

 

 

have a video of the goal, but unable to upload it annoyingly. Great touch on the chest and hit

https://twitter.com/jamiesandiland5/status/1619667778025426946?s=46&t=XAQ8Jc78kyxTo3oRWj2K_A
 

here’s the goal I referenced 

[Niemi’s gloves]

Aidan Denholm’s loan to East Fife may weaken the “B” team a bit in the second half of the season, l’d guess. Unlike the other four youngish players who’ve gone on loan, he’s eligible to play every week and was a regular in the first half. 
 

Not sure if this is a positive sign that he’s still rated as a prospect and time at a higher level than the LL will improve him to our benefit. (Alternative scenario: he’s going to be let go in the summer and this improves his chances of getting another club while creating room in the “B” squad for someone else.)

“

[BM1874]

Away game v Celtic B on the 24th (3 weeks today)

rescheduled from 19:45 > 14:00 

 

on a Friday afternoon 🙂

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

Aidan Denholm’s loan to East Fife may weaken the “B” team a bit in the second half of the season, l’d guess. Unlike the other four youngish players who’ve gone on loan, he’s eligible to play every week and was a regular in the first half. 
 

Not sure if this is a positive sign that he’s still rated as a prospect and time at a higher level than the LL will improve him to our benefit. (Alternative scenario: he’s going to be let go in the summer and this improves his chances of getting another club while creating room in the “B” squad for someone else.)

“

 

People I've spoken to rate him as closest to first team among with McLuckie. 

[Footballfirst]

For me Denholm has been the stand out player in the B team.  They will definitely miss him.

 

Given he is out of contract at the end of the season his future is uncertain.  Whether or not he is kept on may depend on what is being put in place for next season, Lowland League colts, Reserve league, or a new SPFL L3.  He will be too old to play for the B Team if the current regulations are maintained, unless he is played as the sole outfield U21 player.

[Niemi’s gloves]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

For me Denholm has been the stand out player in the B team.  They will definitely miss him.

 

Given he is out of contract at the end of the season his future is uncertain.  Whether or not he is kept on may depend on what is being put in place for next season, Lowland League colts, Reserve league, or a new SPFL L3.  He will be too old to play for the B Team if the current regulations are maintained, unless he is played as the sole outfield U21 player.

Thanks FF. As far as I can see (from Transfermarket) the only young players to have contracts beyond the summer are Lewis Neilson and Finlay Pollock, though I guess some/most of the youngsters who signed their first Pro contracts in summer 2022 will have been given two year deals. 

[Footballfirst]

Another win for the B team today, this time 2-0 away at Gretna.

 

Mixed fortunes for Mackenzie Kirk, with a goal and a red card.  Luke Rathie with the 2nd.

 

Kirk apparently launched a right hook, to be followed by a mass brawl. Apparently it was a very physical game (several other yellow cards), so it's good to see Hearts players now being up for that sort of challenge.

 

If anyone is wondering who the trialist was in the Hearts B line-up, it was Gus Stevenson.  He only became eligible to play on his 16th birthday (in the last few days), but is not yet registered as a professional Hearts player 

[OTT]

44 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Another win for the B team today, this time 2-0 away at Gretna.

 

Mixed fortunes for Mackenzie Kirk, with a goal and a red card.  Luke Rathie with the 2nd.

 

Kirk apparently launched a right hook, to be followed by a mass brawl. Apparently it was a very physical game (several other yellow cards), so it's good to see Hearts players now being up for that sort of challenge.

 

If anyone is wondering who the trialist was in the Hearts B line-up, it was Gus Stevenson.  He only became eligible to play on his 16th birthday (in the last few days), but is not yet registered as a professional Hearts player 

 

Are we playing 343 with the B-Team? 

[Footballfirst]

6 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Are we playing 343 with the B-Team? 

It's more commonly a 4-3-3.  They played a back four of Forrester, Flatman, Darge and Watson today, with Rathie in midfield.

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

It's more commonly a 4-3-3.  They played a back four of Forrester, Flatman, Darge and Watson today, with Rathie in midfield.

 

Thanks FF, figured you'd have a decent idea -  that seems a bit out of sync with the first team though. We  have settled on a 343 at first team level, and have played that largely since Neilson has came in, so i'd have hoped there would be an established way of playing from top down. Otherwise, do we not run the risk of producing square pegs for round holes when academy lads try to make the step up into the first team? (e.g. a fullback that isn't used to wingback, or midfielders used to playing in a 3)

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

Thanks FF, figured you'd have a decent idea -  that seems a bit out of sync with the first team though. We  have settled on a 343 at first team level, and have played that largely since Neilson has came in, so i'd have hoped there would be an established way of playing from top down. Otherwise, do we not run the risk of producing square pegs for round holes when academy lads try to make the step up into the first team? (e.g. a fullback that isn't used to wingback, or midfielders used to playing in a 3)

The full backs are encouraged to press forward, particularly Adam Forrester, which is the reason that he has provided assists with his crosses in recent games and managed to bag some goals himself earlier in the season.

 

Naismith likes to change things during games, particularly with the midfield switching from a 3 to a diamond of 4, so is flexible depending on the game situation.

[stuart500]

How's the boy Watson doing? Seemed to be a very promising left back but had time out due to injury.

 

We are pretty well covered at left back but I always thought we had high hopes for him. If Cochrane is sold in the next year or so be good to have a natural successor coming through the ranks.

 

 

[Footballfirst]

13 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

How's the boy Watson doing? Seemed to be a very promising left back but had time out due to injury.

 

We are pretty well covered at left back but I always thought we had high hopes for him. If Cochrane is sold in the next year or so be good to have a natural successor coming through the ranks.

He had a lengthy spell out after severing a tendon in his wrist in a car accident.

 

He has loads of potential and ability, but I don't think he's quite back to where he was last season as yet. Sometimes you get the sense he's content to coast through games, yet occasionally shows glimpses that suggest that he has more in reserve, e.g. a burst of pace going forward or recovering in defence. I'd like to see more of those "glimpses" becoming his normal standard. 

[Mikey1874]

4 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Another win for the B team today, this time 2-0 away at Gretna.

 

Mixed fortunes for Mackenzie Kirk, with a goal and a red card.  Luke Rathie with the 2nd.

 

Kirk apparently launched a right hook, to be followed by a mass brawl. Apparently it was a very physical game (several other yellow cards), so it's good to see Hearts players now being up for that sort of challenge.

 

If anyone is wondering who the trialist was in the Hearts B line-up, it was Gus Stevenson.  He only became eligible to play on his 16th birthday (in the last few days), but is not yet registered as a professional Hearts player 

 

Kirk and Ginnelly can compare notes on red cards. 

[stuart500]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

He had a lengthy spell out after severing a tendon in his wrist in a car accident.

 

He has loads of potential and ability, but I don't think he's quite back to where he was last season as yet. Sometimes you get the sense he's content to coast through games, yet occasionally shows glimpses that suggest that he has more in reserve, e.g. a burst of pace going forward or recovering in defence. I'd like to see more of those "glimpses" becoming his normal standard. 

 

Thanks for reply. Hopefully the lad can kick on. 👍

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

Seems like some of these may be a surprise?
 

[Mikey1874]

Some good signings for other clubs. 

[Gorgierools]

I think they'll all get decent offers,just not at our level. Logan looked promising before his back injury. Only seen Darge play once, in the abandoned Spanish friendly, thought he looked decent. Good right hook as well.

[Armageddon]

13 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Seems like some of these may be a surprise?
 

 

Cammy Logan should have been mentored by Michael Smith and given a chance in the Championship when there were zero fans.

[TheBigO]

16 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

Seems like some of these may be a surprise?
 

Darge is a surprise, no?

 

Shame about Logan, as I've liked what I've seen of him (not much, mind you).  Best of luck to them.  

 

All part of the "old" academy.  Let's see from I guess the 16 and under yearolds at the club what we can produce.  Maybe Pollock and McLuckie from current crop of guys who are old enough

[Sooks]

7 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

 

Cammy Logan should have been mentored by Michael Smith and given a chance in the Championship when there were zero fans.

I think that was the plan but he got injured 

[Goldstone Wonder]

Disappointed for Aidan Denholm. I work with his dad. I'm told Naismith rated him. They will both be gutted.

[Saint Jambo]

Interesting decision. Significantly younger than some of the academy prospects we've released in recent years, but I guess that none of these players ever made it to the first team squad. One side-effect of creating the B team is that there are probably a larger group of fans that will be familiar with the names of youth players, so maybe we are just paying more attention when youngsters at this level are released.

 

I do think we are treating them reasonably well. Presumably announcing it in this way means we aren't offering them terms that would allow us to try and pick-up some small fees. Also we have let them go out on loan rather than keeping them around the B team to provide a bit of experience for the younger lads. Being out on loan is likely to help them get better clubs for next season.

[jamboinglasgow]

26 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Darge is a surprise, no?

 

Shame about Logan, as I've liked what I've seen of him (not much, mind you).  Best of luck to them.  

 

All part of the "old" academy.  Let's see from I guess the 16 and under yearolds at the club what we can produce.  Maybe Pollock and McLuckie from current crop of guys who are old enough

 

Sad to see them all go, Denholm, McGill and Logan all made competitive appearances but I thought they would have made more.

 

But the club will have to make choices, all of them are too old to play for the B team without being classed as an overage player, so they will have limited time. The club could have given them another year and sent them out on loan but the questions becomes, does the club think these players will make it at Hearts, if not there is no point prolonging their time when they could move to a new club and settle there and kick on. We have done that too often in the past. Better to make the decision now and help these players find new clubs (which I am certain they will get.)

 

Would say one player not listed among them but out of contract in the summer is Harry Stone, suggests to me the club is offering him a new contract.

[liam11]

Shame to see some of the young lads go. Ultimately though, I have to trust Hearts’ decision, and that is that none of these guys will make the first team cut. 

 

Will be interesting to see with McAvoy as Academy director and people like Naismith coaching, plus the B team in a competitive league, whether we can produce a better level in the future. But any changes on the youth front will take a while to show effect Id imagine.

[TheBigO]

9 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Sad to see them all go, Denholm, McGill and Logan all made competitive appearances but I thought they would have made more.

 

But the club will have to make choices, all of them are too old to play for the B team without being classed as an overage player, so they will have limited time. The club could have given them another year and sent them out on loan but the questions becomes, does the club think these players will make it at Hearts, if not there is no point prolonging their time when they could move to a new club and settle there and kick on. We have done that too often in the past. Better to make the decision now and help these players find new clubs (which I am certain they will get.)

 

Would say one player not listed among them but out of contract in the summer is Harry Stone, suggests to me the club is offering him a new contract.

Absolutely, second all of this.

 

What needs looked at is beyond Hearts imo.  We're forced in to decisions on guys who may be borderline at age 20ish.  There's nowhere for them to be other than shitty little loans where they can't impress or grab a chance at their parent club.

 

We need an u23 league, or for the LL to allow it to be 23s (or 4 overage or whatever).  The whole pathway within Scottish football is mingin.  Well, actually it isn't mingin, it doesn't exist.

 

Some of these lads might have it but bloom late, some of them may have been hampered by injury and not been able to impress enough (Watson).  But in a business which is tough on kids and hard and fast decisions are made anyway, clubs like Hearts are being forced in to even more decisions to be fair to boys with literally no where to play.

 

Not saying this relates to these lads of course, more of a general thing

[Armageddon]

30 minutes ago, Goldstone Wonder said:

Disappointed for Aidan Denholm. I work with his dad. I'm told Naismith rated him. They will both be gutted.

 

His dad is a very honest and practical thinker, he will have been thinking about all the potentials, positive and negative.  Aidan has been at the club all his days too.

 

Hope the boy is a huge success elsewhere, the reality is, this is nothing personal, we just don't do Youth development!

[jamboinglasgow]

39 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

 

His dad is a very honest and practical thinker, he will have been thinking about all the potentials, positive and negative.  Aidan has been at the club all his days too.

 

Hope the boy is a huge success elsewhere, the reality is, this is nothing personal, we just don't do Youth development!

 

It may sound harsh, but I think if you 20 or older at Hearts and not really part of the first team, then the chances of you making it at Hearts is small. Thats where you need to move to another team (most likely in a lower league) and get game time to establish yourself. I think you can have a danger where a player is kept at the edge of the first time for seasons and never get the chance. 

 

It has been said over and over again, our youth development has been questionable for years. We are not getting the players through after they turn pro. That said it level of the squad has been raised this season so it requires younger players to push a higher level to reach it. So will be interesting to see how the club is getting the youngsters to that level.

[Luckies1874]

Given today's news about the release of 5 players and the ensuing debate about our academy and it's usefulness it will be interesting to see how this goes tonight and if anyone stands out

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Luckies1874

[Footballfirst]

11 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

Given today's news about the release of 5 players and the ensuing debate about our academy and it's usefulness it will be interesting to see how this goes tonight and if anyone stands out

 

 

This is the team that won the U18 league comfortably last season, bar Connor Young who moved to Rangers.  They intended to run the team an a development squad playing friendlies against English sides, but those games failed to materialise, so they haven't played that much with a curtailed reserve league.

 

I heard in the last week that none of their current U18s are being kept on, so are free to join other clubs. I believe that Hearts are interested in at least one player.

[Footballfirst]

Mike Tullberg is the Dortmund U19 coach, if you are looking for a Hearts link.

[jamboinglasgow]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

This is the team that won the U18 league comfortably last season, bar Connor Young who moved to Rangers.  They intended to run the team an a development squad playing friendlies against English sides, but those games failed to materialise, so they haven't played that much with a curtailed reserve league.

 

I heard in the last week that none of their current U18s are being kept on, so are free to join other clubs. I believe that Hearts are interested in at least one player.

 

So the opposite way released youngsters normally go in Edinburgh. Is the team that is playing today their current U18s or is it slightly older players?

[Footballfirst]

5 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

So the opposite way released youngsters normally go in Edinburgh. Is the team that is playing today their current U18s or is it slightly older players?

It's their U19s, barring Ethan Laidlaw who is still U18.  They won the U18 league last season with virtually a complete squad of 2004s (U18). They moved en bloc to U19s this season, which is the age group used in the UEFA Youth League.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Footballfirst

[Luckies1874]

The tattie field is helping Hibs here. Dortmund have the quality which should eventually tell though. 

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

It's their U19s, barring Ethan Laidlaw who is still U18.  They won the U18 league last season with virtually a complete squad of 2004s (U18). They moved en bloc to U19s this season, which is the age group used in the UEFA Youth League.

 

Quite remarkable if they are all being released by Hibs.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Quite remarkable if they are all being released by Hibs.

It's not tonight's squad that is being released, it's the current U18 squad.

[Niemi’s gloves]

Quite a young starting line up for tonight’s B team home game against Caledonian Braves. I think seven of the eleven are 2005s or 2006s (in other words eligible to play U-18). No Makenzie Kirk of course due to his straight red against Gretna

[tazhearts]

Getting pumped so far.

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, tazhearts said:

Getting pumped so far.

 

 

[moonraker]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Finished 2-5

[Footballfirst]

Disappointing performance. Failed to adapt to the conditions in the first half when playing into the wind and rain.

 

The first two goals were avoidable. The third was a great strike but the Hearts heads seemed to go down as if they didn't fancy it.

 

A goal in the first minute of the second half suggested that there was a chance of a comeback, but Hearts didn't make too many chances thereafter, due to poor passes or decision making.

 

Hearts definitely missed Aiden Denholm and Mackenzie Kirk from their usual lineup but also lost Aaron Darge to injury at half time.