Robbie Neilson Tactics

[Skivingatwork]

Just opening JKB since the game yesterday and interested to read the polarised views.  I have finally sobered up enough to add my own thoughts.

 

I think the tactics were spot on for the first 60-70 minutes.  Don’t go gung ho and find yourself 2 down inside 20 minutes and the game is effectively over.

 

However, in the last 15-20 minutes there needed to be a plan B which all the players were aware of. A plan to up the pace, press higher as a team and put them under pressure. Test their legs. Unfortunately we were set up all game not to win it but not to lose it. 
 

We did well to keep them at bay but didn’t lay a glove on them. It was always going to be a matter of time before they scored as they have decent enough quality in their team. 
 

Just wish we had been a wee bit braver in the closing stages of the 90 minutes.

[Voxpop]

11 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

Robbie will be judged more next season and so will the recruitment team. Have to show improvement again. Get to third and try clawing the point gap from old firm has to be aim.

thats just not going to happen.  Rangers and Celtic are divisions better than us in every way imaginable.  We can only hope for third again and another decent cup run.  This is success.  

[CMc]

11 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

We’ll never know, of course. Considering the central midfield was bypassed by both teams for the most part (us hoofing it, them utilising the wings more) I think Sibbick would have been just fine in the centre. And I feel Ginnelly would have offered some (not a lot) more protection for Atkinson than Boyce did and provided us with a wide outlet on a wider pitch. I feel Boyce and Devlin would have offered more coming on in the 2nd half than as starters who slowly burn out.

 

 

We’re too easy to nullify and stifle. Plan B often not existent or is terrible (Halliday on the right?) Not sure if that’s lack of tactical nous or just lack of player options to keep opposition teams on their toes. Much easier to nullify when it’s only one or two players you need to worry about.

For the first part, Cammy made some really important tackles in the first half and was critical in finally getting one of their players carded for the persistent fouling on their right side (which meant they eventually lost their free pass to tactically foul our attempted counters). I suspect we’d have been behind by the time ha came on. 
 

For the second part, lack of player options has to be at least part of it. 
 

Apart from Ginelly and Halliday, the bench options were Sibbick, GMS, Woodburn or McEnneff. 
 

Sibbick and McEneff have shredded confidence (and arguably Sibbick would have added very little going forward. 
 

GMS has no fight to him. 
 

Woodburn? Would have been a huge roll of the dice. 
 

System change? In the second half the defence was the only functional unit. Guess we could have dropped Cochrane for a midfielder - but would have had to have been one of the above. 
 

Would 4-5-1 with GMS or Woodburn been an attacking improvement? Would we have survived the last 25 minutes of the second half like that? Would a 4-5-1 with 3 holding midfielders helped (eg bringing on Sibbick)?

 

Haliday and Ginelly for McKay and Boyce was probably least worst. 
 

The only other change I could see was to go for broke at 80 minutes and order them to press like maniacs and accept it would likely lead to a couple of injuries/subs. With hindsight, this would have been better as we couldn’t have been worse in ET - but needing to be able to survive ET was a consideration in NT. 

 

 

 

 

[BackOfTheNet]

2 minutes ago, CMc said:

For the first part, Cammy made some really important tackles in the first half and was critical in finally getting one of their players carded for the persistent fouling on their right side (which meant they eventually lost their free pass to tactically foul our attempted counters). I suspect we’d have been behind by the time ha came on. 
 

For the second part, lack of player options has to be at least part of it. 
 

Apart from Ginelly and Halliday, the bench options were Sibbick, GMS, Woodburn or McEnneff. 
 

Sibbick and McEneff have shredded confidence (and arguably Sibbick would have added very little going forward. 
 

GMS has no fight to him. 
 

Woodburn? Would have been a huge roll of the dice. 
 

System change? In the second half the defence was the only functional unit. Guess we could have dropped Cochrane for a midfielder - but would have had to have been one of the above. 
 

Would 4-5-1 with GMS or Woodburn been an attacking improvement? Would we have survived the last 25 minutes of the second half like that? Would a 4-5-1 with 3 holding midfielders helped (eg bringing on Sibbick)?

 

Haliday and Ginelly for McKay and Boyce was probably least worst. 
 

The only other change I could see was to go for broke at 80 minutes and order them to press like maniacs and accept it would likely lead to a couple of injuries/subs. With hindsight, this would have been better as we couldn’t have been worse in ET - but needing to be able to survive ET was a consideration in NT. 

 

 

 

 

We definitely needed to push at some point, even if it means giving them something else to think about. It was all too comfortable for them unfortunately. Your arguments have merit, I still though think we should have spread out the players who were suffering with injuries and niggles so that they weren’t all on the pitch at the same time. We needed to push ourselves as well as them, and we were never going to be able to sustain that with half the team not at 100%. We may never have been able to do it at maximum level for the duration either way, but perhaps we could’ve sustained higher levels for longer if we had them spread out.

[stirlo]

22 minutes ago, Skivingatwork said:

Just opening JKB since the game yesterday and interested to read the polarised views.  I have finally sobered up enough to add my own thoughts.

 

I think the tactics were spot on for the first 60-70 minutes.  Don’t go gung ho and find yourself 2 down inside 20 minutes and the game is effectively over.

 

However, in the last 15-20 minutes there needed to be a plan B which all the players were aware of. A plan to up the pace, press higher as a team and put them under pressure. Test their legs. Unfortunately we were set up all game not to win it but not to lose it. 
 

We did well to keep them at bay but didn’t lay a glove on them. It was always going to be a matter of time before they scored as they have decent enough quality in their team. 
 

Just wish we had been a wee bit braver in the closing stages of the 90 minutes.

 

Good summary and pretty much how I see it. The only thing I would add is that I think the failure to go for it in the last 15-20 minutes was more about the players available than tactics. Bringing on Halliday for Boyce was hardly an attacking substitution, but Boyce was knackered and it's not like we had a like-for-like substitution waiting on the bench. The reality is that from an attacking perspective we're a very limited team and yesterday highlighted that. 

[spacerjoe]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

We’ll never know, of course. Considering the central midfield was bypassed by both teams for the most part (us hoofing it, them utilising the wings more) I think Sibbick would have been just fine in the centre. And I feel Ginnelly would have offered some (not a lot) more protection for Atkinson than Boyce did and provided us with a wide outlet on a wider pitch. I feel Boyce and Devlin would have offered more coming on in the 2nd half than as starters who slowly burn out.

 

 

We’re too easy to nullify and stifle. Plan B often not existent or is terrible (Halliday on the right?) Not sure if that’s lack of tactical nous or just lack of player options to keep opposition teams on their toes. Much easier to nullify when it’s only one or two players you need to worry about.

Boyce did a power of work that Ginnelly would not have. We weren't bypassing the midfield half as much when he was on the pitch.

 

I'd much rather we play our strongest team from the first minute, rather than hope we are not 3-0 down with 20 mins to go and then bring our best players on.

 

Ginnelly coming on should have given us an outlet, but he provided nothing. He was an empty shirt.

 

Not to mention Sibbick was utter pish in midfield when he played there.

 

Can't really imagine what the score might have been if they had started.

[JimmyCant]

17 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

We definitely needed to push at some point, even if it means giving them something else to think about. It was all too comfortable for them unfortunately. Your arguments have merit, I still though think we should have spread out the players who were suffering with injuries and niggles so that they weren’t all on the pitch at the same time. We needed to push ourselves as well as them, and we were never going to be able to sustain that with half the team not at 100%. We may never have been able to do it at maximum level for the duration either way, but perhaps we could’ve sustained higher levels for longer if we had them spread out.

What surprised me is how little Simms and McKay had in the tank and how quickly we ran out of juice. We had nothing left to have a go in the last 20 minutes. That’s a concern that even our fit players didn’t last 90 minutes. Boyce we kind of knew wouldn’t last the game and maybe we should have started Ginelly and brought Boyce on later. Once Boyce went off it was apparent Simms and McKay were running on fumes and we fell out the game in their half. I think we knew we had to score first. I think we tried in the first half but we only created one real chance and we had nothing left in an attacking sense from half time onwards.

 

All if buts and maybes. The bottom line is they are and were much better and fitter than us all over the pitch. Not much you can do about that except wipe the blood off, acknowledge where we’re short and try and fix some of it for next season

[briever]

1 hour ago, jambopilms said:

Apart from budget. The one thing that makes a difference 

In one off games it’s less significant.

[Romulus]

52 minutes ago, Skivingatwork said:

Just opening JKB since the game yesterday and interested to read the polarised views.  I have finally sobered up enough to add my own thoughts.

 

I think the tactics were spot on for the first 60-70 minutes.  Don’t go gung ho and find yourself 2 down inside 20 minutes and the game is effectively over.

 

However, in the last 15-20 minutes there needed to be a plan B which all the players were aware of. A plan to up the pace, press higher as a team and put them under pressure. Test their legs. Unfortunately we were set up all game not to win it but not to lose it. 
 

We did well to keep them at bay but didn’t lay a glove on them. It was always going to be a matter of time before they scored as they have decent enough quality in their team. 
 

Just wish we had been a wee bit braver in the closing stages of the 90 minutes.

This is spot on.

 

Neilson and some of those players will be full of regret today.

 

No shots on target in a cup final is pitiful and no shots on or off target in the second half.

[JimmyCant]

15 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Boyce did a power of work that Ginnelly would not have. We weren't bypassing the midfield half as much when he was on the pitch.

 

I'd much rather we play our strongest team from the first minute, rather than hope we are not 3-0 down with 20 mins to go and then bring our best players on.

 

Ginnelly coming on should have given us an outlet, but he provided nothing. He was an empty shirt.

 

Not to mention Sibbick was utter pish in midfield when he played there.

 

Can't really imagine what the score might have been if they had started.

If there is one thing we learned to go forward with from yesterday it’s that Ginelly isn’t good enough for Hearts. You could also say the same about GMS. Neither of them produced a single thing in a cup final we were at 0-0 in. Two players who were supposedly fit, one of whom has played at a very high level and they produced nothing, in fact their presence on the pitch worked against us. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by JimmyCant

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

What surprised me is how little Simms and McKay had in the tank and how quickly we ran out of juice. We had nothing left to have a go in the last 20 minutes. That’s a concern that even our fit players didn’t last 90 minutes. Boyce we kind of knew wouldn’t last the game and maybe we should have started Ginelly and brought Boyce on later. Once Boyce went off it was apparent Simms and McKay were running on fumes and we fell out the game in their half. I think we knew we had to score first. I think we tried in the first half but we only created one real chance and we had nothing left in an attacking sense from half time onwards.

 

All if buts and maybes. The bottom line is they are and were much better and fitter than us all over the pitch. Not much you can do about that except wipe the blood off, acknowledge where we’re short and try and fix some of it for next season

 

 

I agree here. 

You've been spot on. 

 

We had nothing left to push them. 

 

Bit disappointing really, keeping them at bay taken it all out of us to the point where we had nothing left. 

 

Iike a boxer who ducked and dived and taken the punches for 10 rounds and who knows is getting beat on points  but just has nothing left to knock their opponent out despite knowing what will happen on points. 

 

 

 

[busbyfth]

Soutter was immense, never seen him play better - and I reckoned he wasnt match fit - shows what I know - only Shirley from Rangers could get near him as far as  man of the match goes. I'm no Robbie fan, but look at the midfield options we had. all grinders though of a good standard, barring one bit of class - Mackay......but he's been off form for over a month so no class available - our midfield at times was overrun. Best team won - and theyre a decent team so no disgrace - Pity !!!!!

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, briever said:

In one off games it’s less significant.

 

In big, show piece "one off" type games it's very significant. 

 

It's the very reason clubs want the best players, they turn up in big games. 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Bazzas right boot

[Baxfee]

4 hours ago, briever said:

You’re deluded if you think it was just about the bench and ET, we never laid a glove on them for 90mins.  At no time in the whole game were we on top.

 

Tactically we got it wrong.

Hardly deluded. 

[BackOfTheNet]

16 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Boyce did a power of work that Ginnelly would not have. We weren't bypassing the midfield half as much when he was on the pitch.

 

I'd much rather we play our strongest team from the first minute, rather than hope we are not 3-0 down with 20 mins to go and then bring our best players on.

 

Ginnelly coming on should have given us an outlet, but he provided nothing. He was an empty shirt.

 

Not to mention Sibbick was utter pish in midfield when he played there.

 

Can't really imagine what the score might have been if they had started.

But that’s the thing, is it our strongest staring XI if they’re not all 100% fit? Personally, I don’t think so, that’s why I suggest we would’ve been stronger to have our XI on the pitch (at whatever point in the game) to be at its fittest average wise for longer, that might (not saying it would) have put us in a similar or better position. But as I say, we’ll never know.

 

15 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

What surprised me is how little Simms and McKay had in the tank and how quickly we ran out of juice. We had nothing left to have a go in the last 20 minutes. That’s a concern that even our fit players didn’t last 90 minutes. Boyce we kind of knew wouldn’t last the game and maybe we should have started Ginelly and brought Boyce on later. Once Boyce went off it was apparent Simms and McKay were running on fumes and we fell out the game in their half. I think we knew we had to score first. I think we tried in the first half but we only created one real chance and we had nothing left in an attacking sense from half time onwards.

 

All if buts and maybes. The bottom line is they are and were much better and fitter than us all over the pitch. Not much you can do about that except wipe the blood off, acknowledge where we’re short and try and fix some of it for next season

 

I would agree for the most part, including that Simms and McKay seemed to run out of juice, however I would say it was part that and part Van Bronckhorst realising they are our biggest threats creatively and going forward and in turn setting out to nullify that. And he’s not the first, a few teams have nullified us by marking McKay out of the game throughout the season. Our problem is we have no plan B in that situation and the rest of our players aren’t creative enough. That’s why we needed to press more as making them make mistakes and getting at them would likely have produced more than waiting for the ball to be won in our own half, lumping it up and hoping McKay gets to a second ball where he could thread a ball through.

[Armageddon]

Every now and again a typical Robbie performance raises its head, this was another for me 👎🏼
 

The only thing in his defence was if we pressed Rangers they’d have picked us apart far sooner, we don’t have the quality to press as a team.

[Mr. T]

14 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

What surprised me is how little Simms and McKay had in the tank and how quickly we ran out of juice. We had nothing left to have a go in the last 20 minutes. That’s a concern that even our fit players didn’t last 90 minutes.

 

Rangers had the lion's share of possession so we'd been chasing the ball for the majority of the game. It takes its toll. 

 

We did well. Kept our defensive shape and took them to extra time. It took something really special for them to score the first. Then we lost our shape when we chased an equaliser and they took advantage.

 

We were never going to be able to go toe-to-toe with them, we'd just get a battering. We're one season out of the championship and we're going to be in Europe next season. We've secured ourselves a bumper payday with that which will allow us to build more. We've done really well with the recruitment (Baningime and Simms in particular), I'm excited to see what we do over the summer transfer window. 

I think a lot of people here seem to be worrying about taking 'next steps' and competing with the ugly sisters, I'm more concerned with making sure we're secured as best of the rest first. Last few seasons the team that finished 3rd ended up in the bottom six the next season. Hell, the four teams other than the old firm in the top six last season finished in the bottom six this season, St Johnstone are even in the play offs for potential relegation. We need to make sure we don't repeat that. Secure our position and build sustainably first.

[Hackney Hearts]

17 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Right  up there with 1976 & 1996. 

 

Absolute nonsense (I was at all three).

 

76 was literally over before it even began. We were NEVER in that match at any point, it was utterly depressing. Yesterday we were still in the match till the 94th minute.

 

96 was a far better game, and we probably contributed more in an attacking sense than yesterday, but nobody wants to get beaten 5-1 in a cup final, do they? 

 

Yesterday was disappointing for a number of reasons, mainly that despite them having higher quality players, there were things that our players could have done far better - corners, free kicks, taking a shot when they had the chance. Half their team were just back from Seville and half our team were just back from injury, so I guess it's no surprise that neither side were at their best. But it wasn't an embarrassment, and I stayed at the end to applaud them for a great season.

[McCrae]

In the past I wasn’t a fan of RN, I thought his inexperience was an issue and was impacting on what we were able to achieve as a team.

This year I think he has proven me wrong. What has changed?

The players we have are showing improvement, Halkett and Kingsley being great examples. Kingsley’s defensive side of his game is much better now. 

He is also winning the must  win big pressure games…. The last 2 games against H1b5!
His substitutions, both in timing and personal seem to make much more sense now and finally I like our style of play..it’s good to watch.
 

[spacerjoe]

4 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

But that’s the thing, is it our strongest staring XI if they’re not all 100% fit?

Yes

 

An unfit Boyce was much, much better than a fully fit Ginnelly.

 

It's not like Boyce or Devlin looked out of shape for 60/70 mins. Then you could say 'OK playing them was a mistake'.

 

We were better when they were on. That was our strongest lineup.

[Sooks]

14 hours ago, jamborich said:

No I deal in reality you happy then fair play but I'll bet you neilson is not the manager to take us to the next level

Were you the guy that was punching the door as we left Hampden and repeatedly screeching 

 

Negative *******

Get him out our club

****ing loser

 

over and over again for about five minutes

 

[oritem8]

14 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

If we win and draw 3 or 4 games in a Europe and finish 3rd again do you want to keep him?

 

#numbnuts

If the quality of football has gotten better then I’d be happy to extend his contract.

 

Next season we will struggle from the start instead of the half way point like his first 2 seasons. Tactics need to be overhauled massively for us to keep 3rd. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Costanza]

4 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Spot on.  We can hope but not expect Hibs and Aberdeen will be as poor next season.  We’re miles away from competing with the OF, back to back 3rd would be a good starting point, been a long time since we achieved that (Levein’s first spell).  Will be hard to finish 3rd next season with the European games in addition. 

That's a good point. Maintaining league form whilst competing in Europe is going to be a big ask particularly as something most players not used to.

You'd imagine recruitment will reflect that.

[JimmyCant]

Sometimes it feels worse to fail at the last hurdle than to be nowhere near it. The cup final was just a step too far for our team. Rangers are simply better than us. It still hurts to lose of course and losing earlier in the competition, to A half decent side away for example, wouldn’t probably have hurt nearly as much.

 

Someone mentioned that we could be in another ‘bridesmaid’ phase. Possible we’ll be close but no cigar quite a few times but we’ll have our day again if we keep plugging away. It’ll hurt sometimes but it’s substantially better than being mid table also rans or never rans

[Portable Badger]

19 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

On the very few occasions we did get men up the park today and in their half the minute they got the ball 5 passes later they nearly scored in each occasion 

 

That's the issue I have when folk say "aye, we lost the game because we didn't attack them". I don't know what the answer is - the hampdunk pitch is wide as anything and suits fast wide players 

 

We just don't have them in our squad - they have bassey' tavernier and Kent marauding the flanks and with gaps in behind. Like I said I don't know what the answer is but I know the reason that we lost that game today is that we are lightening years behind them in terms of quality 

 

F all to do with tactics 

Totally agree.  The ease they pissed past our rwb/lwb I believe we employed the correct set-up.  We used Halket and Souttar to defend the crosses which they did well (until the first goal).  They may have controlled the ball in later stages of the 2nd half onwards but they didn’t create that many clear cut chances.    Had we gone toe to toe they would have opened us up, like for their second, more frequently - it could’ve been an embarrassing score line 

[JimmyCant]

8 minutes ago, oritem8 said:

If the quality of football has gotten better then I’d be happy to extend his contract.

 

Next season we will struggle from the start instead of the half way point like his first 2 seasons. Tactics need to be overhauled massively for us to keep 3rd. 
 

 

 

 

 

I disagree. To LOSE 3rd would take another club who was really poor this season to improve above and beyond us, given that we’ll have a stronger squad than this season, that’s a huge ask.

[hearts00]

I don’t beleive for a second Robbie sent the team out to park the bus and be negative. And indeed for spells in the first half we were not. 
 

But we completely lost a foothold in the game in the second half and I genuinely believe the 3-4-3 does not work against the OF. 
 

Indeed i would question whether we should see 3-4-3 again.  4-2-3-1 or a more tradtional 3-5-2 against better teams is the way to go. 

[deejtee]

20 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Yes

 

An unfit Boyce was much, much better than a fully fit Ginnelly.

 

It's not like Boyce or Devlin looked out of shape for 60/70 mins. Then you could say 'OK playing them was a mistake'.

 

We were better when they were on. That was our strongest lineup.

Agree but I felt he left Devlin on far too long when he was clearly out of steam. Admittedly our bench was not awash with suitable replacements. Maybe Sibbick could have been on?

[oritem8]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

I disagree. To LOSE 3rd would take another club who was really poor this season to improve above and beyond us, given that we’ll have a stronger squad than this season, that’s a huge ask.

Everyone knows our tactics now. It took half a season in the championship and half a season in the prem. Next season they will all know our tactics from game 1. 

We will be grinding out draws and narrow victories unless there are some serious changes over the summer. 
 

 

 

 

[Bull's-eye]

I didn't learn anything new yesterday that I didn't already know.

 

That's actually a good thing, the weaknesses stand out pretty obviously.

Focus on these areas and bolster the squad. The club will hope youngsters will be available to bolster the squad, but that isn't always possible, especially with the morons we have in the support who have no forward thinking mentality. I call them the bigot Wannabees.

 

Patience and trust in the board and current coaching set up is all that's required and we'll be fine imo.

 

Looking forward to the journey with Bob at the helm.

 

[Hmfc1965]

4 minutes ago, oritem8 said:

Everyone knows our tactics now. It took half a season in the championship and half a season in the prem. Next season they will all know our tactics from game 1. 

We will be grinding out draws and narrow victories unless there are some serious changes over the summer. 
 

 

 

 

It also remains to be seen if the European games will affect our league form.

[Bull's-eye]

5 minutes ago, oritem8 said:

Everyone knows our tactics now. It took half a season in the championship and half a season in the prem. Next season they will all know our tactics from game 1. 

We will be grinding out draws and narrow victories unless there are some serious changes over the summer. 
 

 

 

 

 

Lol.

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, oritem8 said:

Everyone knows our tactics now. It took half a season in the championship and half a season in the prem. Next season they will all know our tactics from game 1. 

We will be grinding out draws and narrow victories unless there are some serious changes over the summer. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Grinding out draws and wins... 

 

You'll need to let the other teams know they aren't to defend well, not try and let us pump them 3 or 4 nil. 

 

Draws and wins oot! 

 

 

[briever]

1 hour ago, Voxpop said:

thats just not going to happen.  Rangers and Celtic are divisions better than us in every way imaginable.  We can only hope for third again and another decent cup run.  This is success.  

 

I can believe you didn't use light years or galaxies.

[jr ewing]

6 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

It also remains to be seen if the European games will affect our league form.

Always has in the past. So be it. 

[Voxpop]

Some people are on drugs.  Rangers are far far better than us.  Most of the European teams will be too.  This has been a fantastic season - be happy with third and a good cup run.  Well done Robbie 

[Dennis Reynolds]

2 minutes ago, Voxpop said:

Some people are on drugs.  Rangers are far far better than us.  Most of the European teams will be too.  This has been a fantastic season - be happy with third and a good cup run.  Well done Robbie 

 

Some people are on drugs because they want to win a cup 🤣

 

Also, I'll never be happy with "a good cup run". What a miserable way to look at it.

[jambopilms]

54 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

Every now and again a typical Robbie performance raises its head, this was another for me 👎🏼
 

The only thing in his defence was if we pressed Rangers they’d have picked us apart far sooner, we don’t have the quality to press as a team.

Does a typical Robbie performance happen to be when we play the Old Firm ? Must be because it certainly wasn't for the majority of the season against the rest.

Might be a reason for Robbie performances against the old firm and every other manager suffers from it too

[jambopilms]

4 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Some people are on drugs because they want to win a cup 🤣

 

Also, I'll never be happy with "a good cup run". What a miserable way to look at it.

Then you will rarely be happy.

[Voxpop]

1 minute ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Some people are on drugs because they want to win a cup 🤣

 

Also, I'll never be happy with "a good cup run". What a miserable way to look at it.

you can expect to win a cup if we play a wee team like hibs. Playing a team like Rangers who are vastly superior to us we can expect nothing. Apart from souttar one of our players would get near their team

 

look at the points difference in the league.  If alloa were playing hearts in the cup final would they expect to win?

[BackOfTheNet]

47 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Yes

 

An unfit Boyce was much, much better than a fully fit Ginnelly.

 

It's not like Boyce or Devlin looked out of shape for 60/70 mins. Then you could say 'OK playing them was a mistake'.

 

We were better when they were on. That was our strongest lineup.

You’re comparing players playing against a Rangers side taking time to find their feet versus players coming on when Rangers already had a foot hold in the game. Even at 0-0 they dominated us. Ginnelly for Boyce offers a completely different proposition in terms of a wide threat. And when they were rattled in the first 10 or so minutes that could’ve proved useful. Boyce was decent yesterday, this isn’t a slight on him, I’m just suggesting maybe (not definitely) that Boyce playing the way he did yesterday might have proven more useful coming off the bench when all players had tired than he did when starting. But, we will never know, neither of us or anyone can be conclusive about this as it’s a hypothetical that’s impossible to prove.

[jambopilms]

The tactics were fine, if we had scored the chance we had or at least made better use of set pieces we could have done it. 

The lack of fitness throughout our squad was evident from half time. If we do want to match them better in these one off games then we need to be fitter than them, we were miles off that due to injuries and we are probably miles off that anyway which is something we can do something about.

[briever]

11 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Some people are on drugs because they want to win a cup 🤣

 

Also, I'll never be happy with "a good cup run". What a miserable way to look at it.

It's bewildering - not sure why he watches sport.

[BackOfTheNet]

“We can expect nothing”. That’s either trolling or the defeatist mentality amongst some in our support is much worse than I thought. As I say, let’s start the season on -18 if that’s how we’re going to approach it.

[Cynic]

I thought McKay was the key to this game for us. Unfortunately he didn't turn up. Lack of a box to box midfielder limits us. Boyce works hard but has no pace. Ginnely not good enough. I think we missed Beni badly. 

[briever]

1 minute ago, Cynic said:

I thought McKay was the key to this game for us. Unfortunately he didn't turn up. Lack of a box to box midfielder limits us. Boyce works hard but has no pace. Ginnely not good enough. I think we missed Beni badly. 

Worried McKay might be a bit of a flat track bully.

[ri Alban]

Can someone please tell me where the 'next level' is Robbie can't reach. I'm as big a dreamer as the next fan, but we are not winning the title any time soon. The cup is our Everest, and unfortunately the Big Yetis have been waiting for us the last 3 finals. Hopefully next season we'll plant the flag.

[jambopilms]

You are on drugs if you expected us to win even though all the evidence suggest it was highly unlikely.

Hope for the best is what most folk were doing.

Those who expected to win are the ones stating we should have gone for it and are having a tantrum about typical Robbie tactics and performance, even though it was plain to see we were ****ed after an hour because of pressing with a half fit team.

Do folk honestly believe Neilsons tactics were match them till half time then sit back and do nothing for the rest of the game ? 

The game plan was clearly there and working, the players and fitness wasn't working

[Dennis Reynolds]

2 minutes ago, Voxpop said:

you can expect to win a cup if we play a wee team like hibs. Playing a team like Rangers who are vastly superior to us we can expect nothing. Apart from souttar one of our players would get near their team

 

look at the points difference in the league.  If alloa were playing hearts in the cup final would they expect to win?

 

I didn't say I expect us to win a cup. I wanted us to win yesterday as with everyone else. This is a common misconception whenever anyone argues with the status quo that we should just be happy with what we've got. 

 

Alloa would have given us a better game than we gave Rangers, can guarantee it. 

 

This wierd attitude that going on a decent cup run is some sort of achievement is a bit hibs. It's great for days out, good games and generally a good marker of how the team is doing, but you don't get a medal for a good cup run. We should be aiming to win these competitions, not just making up the numbers. St Johnstone got a double last year ffs so the finances argument will only go so far. Of course it makes a difference but these are one off knockout games. £400,000 a week Aaron Ramsey couldn't even get on the pitch. Money isn't everything albeit it obviously is a big part. This good cup run (Hibs game aside) will be long forgotten sharpish. Winning the cup should be the marker.

 

7 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Then you will rarely be happy.

 

I am a miserable ******* yes.

 

We went on a good cup run this year and got beat in the final. I'm not happy about that 🤷‍♂️ 

 

Also before the Robbie lovers and right footed folk jump on me, this isn't a dig at Neilson. Calm yerselves. It's an overall thing. It's been a great season and getting to the final is a great achievement.

[benny]

Just now, Cynic said:

I thought McKay was the key to this game for us. Unfortunately he didn't turn up. Lack of a box to box midfielder limits us. Boyce works hard but has no pace. Ginnely not good enough. I think we missed Beni badly. 

Boyce has no pace but he is a clever player.

We were never under pressure when he was on the park.

He was doing brilliantly for us while on.All the trouble from that side happened after Boyce went off.