Tynecastle Park Hotel ( updated )

[Sooks]

15 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

The last time I was there, which was about a year before lockdown I think, you couldn't see the nearest goal from the last wee strip of seats before the Gorgie stand. Section T I think.

Well I am very surprised then but as I have never sat there I will have to take your word for it were there no other seats available for that game

 

Did I just imagine that we reduced the police box size to remedy this issue does any one know

[Hmfc1965]

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Well I am very surprised then but as I have never sat there I will have to take your word for it were there no other seats available for that game

 

Did I just imagine that we reduced the police box size to remedy this issue does any one know

It sounds like we did from other posts 

I may have the time wrong but it was a cup game.  I have  a ST in the Wheatfield and fancied trying the new stand.

[Sooks]

Just now, Hmfc1965 said:

It sounds like we did from other posts 

I may have the time wrong but it was a cup game.  I have  a ST in the Wheatfield and fancied trying the new stand.

Forgive the joke but was it a cup game that Hearts were playing in ; - )

[Hmfc1965]

18 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Forgive the joke but was it a cup game that Hearts were playing in ; - )

Yep  😀

[AlimOzturk]

It still hasn’t been solved the police box issue and don’t think it will be unless the remove it completely. 

[Carl Fredrickson]

I think a lot of ideas have been discussed by the board as to what the space should be used for. I have a friend who enjoys going round different grounds and has stayed in hotels at both Bolton and Blackpool and he says it is a great experience. Both hotels are quite a way from the town centres. 

 

I have stayed in hotels at York a 10-20 minute walk from the city centre and I think for most folk this isnt an issue as in nice weather Shanks pony is used and in adverse weather, public transport/taxis are available. 

 

I think with the fans bar/Skyline restaurant/museum/memorial garden a hotel would be a popular choice. 

 

Do Hearts have now own the builders yard - if so, that could be used for parking. 

 

Much better to hear things like this being discussed than worrying about paying wages etc as we have had to do in the not too distant past. 

[Bazzas right boot]

55 minutes ago, Disco Ball said:

Never knew all this .. thank you

 

 

 

Thomaso is your man on this, Tbh he's outlined it several times. 

 

Disnae Ken much about fitbaw, but kens his onions on the new stand. 

[Bazzas right boot]

37 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Well I am very surprised then but as I have never sat there I will have to take your word for it were there no other seats available for that game

 

Did I just imagine that we reduced the police box size to remedy this issue does any one know

 

 

We kept it so that folk who's eyes started to bleed while watching us had a safe space. 

 

 

[tynietigers]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Yip and if anything we'll have a small number of rooms relative to " normal hotels". 

 

It's not like we're gonna have 300 rooms. 

 

As many have said, Likley around 20 rooms give or take. 

 

When leigh griffiths brings his family it wil be full up. 

 

 

 

10/20 rooms kitted out with pods in the middle for business meetings that can open into one big pod to deal with a big function 🤔 so I am led to believe 👍🏻

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, tynietigers said:

10/20 rooms kitted out with pods in the middle for business meetings that can open into one big pod to deal with a big function 🤔 so I am led to believe 👍🏻

 

 

It's almost like they've thought about it. 

 

[Sooks]

12 minutes ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

I think a lot of ideas have been discussed by the board as to what the space should be used for. I have a friend who enjoys going round different grounds and has stayed in hotels at both Bolton and Blackpool and he says it is a great experience. Both hotels are quite a way from the town centres. 

 

I have stayed in hotels at York a 10-20 minute walk from the city centre and I think for most folk this isnt an issue as in nice weather Shanks pony is used and in adverse weather, public transport/taxis are available. 

 

I think with the fans bar/Skyline restaurant/museum/memorial garden a hotel would be a popular choice. 

 

Do Hearts have now own the builders yard - if so, that could be used for parking. 

 

Much better to hear things like this being discussed than worrying about paying wages etc as we have had to do in the not too distant past. 

Good post I agree with all of that but particularly the last paragraph

[Hmfc1965]

20 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

It's almost like they've thought about it. 

 

Given there has been the odd occasional mistake in the past is it that surprising people raise questions?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

10 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Firstly it wasn’t her nephew working in the new stand fit-out, it was her brother.

But why do you want an enquiry? Her brother did not cause the huge cost over run - the reasons have been done to death on here.

To summarise -

The original £12m + £1m budget was put together by the architect and cost consultant and was totally flawed. As an example they included £300k for the M&E package and the best tender came in at over £1m. 
There were also additions to the original cost plan such as the club shop, fans bar, etc, including £1m for the hybrid pitch.

Time to move on.

Aye but how much are we paying to wash the windows?

 

(Sorry are we not doing that joke anymore?)

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

The budget was 11m plus 1 and the pitch was included. It was meant to cover the whole redevelopment, not just the stand, and meant to include fit out, which still isn't complete.

 

As far as I know the budget was about double what we planned for (and still counting), not to mention taking way longer than expected, plus the issues with toilets, changing rooms, studios.

All of that can't be dismissed by pointing at the architect etc because it still means the club made a mistake when it employed them.

 

Being honest, I'm not that against the hotel idea, it doesn't seem like it'll cost loads so the risks are fairly minimal, but I'm just not that convinced that we make good decisions with infrastructure and to me it seems like an unwise time to step into the hotel business.

 

But we'll see, it's not an attack on the club, more an expression of concern, I'll be happy to be wrong

You are correct the original flawed budget was £11m + £1m however that certainly did not include the £1m hybrid pitch. It also did not include the fit out to the second floor as no decision had been made on its use at the time.

The old thread on this goes into huge details explaining the cost over run so really can’t be bothered going into it all again.

With regards to the architect, Ann Budge understandably appointed him as he was the architect on the three other stands. The new stand however was a far more complex construction incorporating hospitality suites, dressing rooms, nursery, club shop, media centre, etc, and frankly it seems he was out of his depth - a fact that Ann learned to her cost but then hindsight is a great thing eh.

[Thomaso]

11 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Aye but how much are we paying to wash the windows?

 

(Sorry are we not doing that joke anymore?)

Well others are giving us our breakfast reheated so bash on! 👍

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

You are correct the original flawed budget was £11m + £1m however that certainly did not include the £1m hybrid pitch. It also did not include the fit out to the second floor as no decision had been made on its use at the time.

The old thread on this goes into huge details explaining the cost over run so really can’t be bothered going into it all again.

With regards to the architect, Ann Budge understandably appointed him as he was the architect on the three other stands. The new stand however was a far more complex construction incorporating hospitality suites, dressing rooms, nursery, club shop, media centre, etc, and frankly it seems he was out of his depth - a fact that Ann learned to her cost but then hindsight is a great thing eh.

 

Hindsight is indeed a great thing, and it should be used to feed foresight, which is exactly why I express a doubt.

[Hmfc1965]

16 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

You are correct the original flawed budget was £11m + £1m however that certainly did not include the £1m hybrid pitch. It also did not include the fit out to the second floor as no decision had been made on its use at the time.

The old thread on this goes into huge details explaining the cost over run so really can’t be bothered going into it all again.

With regards to the architect, Ann Budge understandably appointed him as he was the architect on the three other stands. The new stand however was a far more complex construction incorporating hospitality suites, dressing rooms, nursery, club shop, media centre, etc, and frankly it seems he was out of his depth - a fact that Ann learned to her cost but then hindsight is a great thing eh.

It is and I knew the architect . He's a massive Hearts fan.

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Hindsight is indeed a great thing, and it should be used to feed foresight, which is exactly why I express a doubt.

Fair enough however this is at a very low risk of cost over run and not a big capital commitment for the Club.

The Club have had to put up with the “it’s still not finished” shit from rival fans which in reality was only the fit-out to the second floor which was surplus to requirements for match day hospitality.

Lets give them a bit of credit that they are making a move to now fit out the floor out for a new venture.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Fair enough however this is at a very low risk of cost over run and not a big capital commitment for the Club.

The Club have had to put up with the “it’s still not finished” shit from rival fans which in reality was only the fit-out to the second floor which was surplus to requirements for match day hospitality.

Lets give them a bit of credit that they are making a move to now fit out the floor out for a new venture.

 

The bit in bold is pretty much what I said above myself.

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

The bit in bold is pretty much what I said above myself.

Its good to agree 😊

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Thomaso is your man on this, Tbh he's outlined it several times. 

 

Disnae Ken much about fitbaw, but kens his onions on the new stand. 

One out of two isnae too bad 😊

[FarmerTweedy]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

The budget was 11m plus 1 and the pitch was included. It was meant to cover the whole redevelopment, not just the stand, and meant to include fit out, which still isn't complete.

 

As far as I know the budget was about double what we planned for (and still counting), not to mention taking way longer than expected, plus the issues with toilets, changing rooms, studios.

All of that can't be dismissed by pointing at the architect etc because it still means the club made a mistake when it employed them.

 

Being honest, I'm not that against the hotel idea, it doesn't seem like it'll cost loads so the risks are fairly minimal, but I'm just not that convinced that we make good decisions with infrastructure and to me it seems like an unwise time to step into the hotel business.

 

But we'll see, it's not an attack on the club, more an expression of concern, I'll be happy to be wrong

The pitch was not included in the original budget. It was £11m for the new stand and £1m for other improvements to the ground, but a new hybrid pitch was not part of the plans at that time.  There's no question at all that the stand went way over the original budget, and that there were mistakes made with the design (and some of the procurement).  The key things are whether the people still at the club have learned the lessons, and whether the personnel who are new to the club have the necessary skills.  It's not unreasonable to have concerns, but I think the current board deserve the benefit of the doubt. 

 

Re the timing, I think it's important to differentiate between opening a hotel to compete in the mainstream hotel market in Edinburgh, i.e. directly competing with the likes of Travelodge, Premier Inn, Hampton by Hilton, Leonardo, etc; and opening a boutique operation that's designed primarily to complement existing conferencing/events business.  It's probably not a good time to do the former, in fact it would probably never be a good time for a club like ours to do the former, but I think we're probably going to be doing something much like the latter.  I think we're probably doing this because we've already seen from hosting meetings and conferences, plus weddings and other big parties, that there would be significant demand for this sort of accommodation from people already using Tynecastle for events.  If that's correct, I don't think there's a bad time to be doing that (except maybe at the start of a pandemic)!  Even in a recession, plenty of folk will still be having weddings, parties, etc!

[FarmerTweedy]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

Its good to agree 😊

No it isn't! 

[Unknown user]

25 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

The pitch was not included in the original budget. It was £11m for the new stand and £1m for other improvements to the ground, but a new hybrid pitch was not part of the plans at that time.  There's no question at all that the stand went way over the original budget, and that there were mistakes made with the design (and some of the procurement).  The key things are whether the people still at the club have learned the lessons, and whether the personnel who are new to the club have the necessary skills.  It's not unreasonable to have concerns, but I think the current board deserve the benefit of the doubt. 

 

Re the timing, I think it's important to differentiate between opening a hotel to compete in the mainstream hotel market in Edinburgh, i.e. directly competing with the likes of Travelodge, Premier Inn, Hampton by Hilton, Leonardo, etc; and opening a boutique operation that's designed primarily to complement existing conferencing/events business.  It's probably not a good time to do the former, in fact it would probably never be a good time for a club like ours to do the former, but I think we're probably going to be doing something much like the latter.  I think we're probably doing this because we've already seen from hosting meetings and conferences, plus weddings and other big parties, that there would be significant demand for this sort of accommodation from people already using Tynecastle for events.  If that's correct, I don't think there's a bad time to be doing that (except maybe at the start of a pandemic)!  Even in a recession, plenty of folk will still be having weddings, parties, etc!

No, the budget was 11 million for the whole shebang. There was an extra million contingency that we hoped we wouldn't touch.

I've changed phones god knows how many times since so I don't have all the files any more but the club said that a new pitch was included in the budget before it started - I used to be able to prove that!

[JimmyCant]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I can't remember the timing but they cut back the police box to solve the problem. Or try to. A few rows in that section beside the police box always seem to be empty. 

As far as I remember it wasn’t just the police that used that wee building. It was also full of switchgear and electrics which couldn’t be moved cheaply if at all for some reason.

[McCrae]

4 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Not every hotel is in the city centre. 

Lots of hotels across lots of countries and cities are not in the city centre. 

 

Folk at a wedding, a function or a works conference would want to stay. 

 

Hearts fans as well. 

 

 

Can’t see it working out… their is a very obvious reason no other hotel has set up in Gorgie.

[Thomaso]

56 minutes ago, Smithee said:

No, the budget was 11 million for the whole shebang. There was an extra million contingency that we hoped we wouldn't touch.

I've changed phones god knows how many times since so I don't have all the files any more but the club said that a new pitch was included in the budget before it started - I used to be able to prove that!

Sorry but you are wrong Smithee. The original budget did not include for a new pitch.

I sat in at the preliminary design and cost meetings and there was no mention of a new hybrid pitch.

[Thomaso]

50 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

As far as I remember it wasn’t just the police that used that wee building. It was also full of switchgear and electrics which couldn’t be moved cheaply if at all for some reason.

Correct - it houses the control centre for the stadium.

[Bazzas right boot]

32 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Can’t see it working out… their is a very obvious reason no other hotel has set up in Gorgie.

 

yip, because it is far too big a cost and operation, land is also expensive.

 

We already have the land and the externals, we have the catering and we have a captured market that gives us a head start.

 

We are also  not building a hotel from scratch, if we were spending £50-£100m on a brand new hotel complex and it was our only income ( or main income) then  it would be questionable. 

 

We are not.

Once folk get that out their head and see it more as a bolt on to our existing offer then you can see why it makes sense.

 

The risk is minimum, to build a brand new hotel the risk and cost and massive. We are not doing that.

We are a football club that is going to extend it's hospitality, conferencing and function offer and kit out a bit of existing real estate that is currently doing he haw with the plan that it adds a little extra revenue.

 

It's really not a big leap.

We are not building a hotel.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Bazzas right boot

[McCrae]

9 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

yip, because it is far too big a cost and operation, land is also expensive.

 

We already have the land and the externals, we have the catering and we have a captured market that gives us a head start.

 

We are also  not building a hotel from scratch, if we were spending £50-£100m on a brand new hotel complex and it was our only income ( or main income) then  it would be questionable. 

 

We are not.

Once folk get that out their head and see it more as a bolt on to our existing offer then you can see why it makes sense.

 

The risk is minimum, to build a brand new hotel the risk and cost and massive. We are not doing that.

We are a football club that is going to extend it's hospitality, conferencing and function offer and kit out a bit of existing real estate that is currently doing he haw with the plan that it adds a little extra revenue.

 

It's really not a big leap.

We are not building a hotel.

 

 

If you were not a Hearts fan would you pick a hotel in Gorgie to stay in when visiting Edinburgh. Only way I can see this working is if it’s a very low budget hotel.

Retrofitting the existing structure into a hotel is not a cheap option.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

If you were not a Hearts fan would you pick a hotel in Gorgie to stay in when visiting Edinburgh. Only way I can see this working is if it’s a very low budget hotel.

Retrofitting the existing structure into a hotel is not a cheap option.

 

V building a hotel it is. A fraction of the cost and a fraction of the risk.

 

I've stayed in lots of hotels, not all were in the city centre.

We also  already have a market and this is a bolt on to our other services.

 

 

[Sooks]

What is the obvious reason why there is no hotel on Gorgie Road 

[luckydug]

8 hours ago, McCrae said:

Handy for match days... but who would want to stay there at any other time?  Its not as if Gorgie is a tourist hot spot.

Unlike Leith ? 🤔 

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Unlike Leith ? 🤔 

I only see his posts when some one quotes them but yeah I am surprised he is Hearts

[luckydug]

5 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I only see his posts when some one quotes them but yeah I am surprised he is Hearts

Folk like him would have us back in the seventies. 

Nothing the club does meets with his approval. 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

1 hour ago, McCrae said:

Can’t see it working out… their is a very obvious reason no other hotel has set up in Gorgie.

 

Aye, nae room.

[will-i-am-a-jambo]

1 hour ago, McCrae said:

.

31 minutes ago, Sooks said:

What is the obvious reason why there is no hotel on Gorgie Road 

The poster is talking a load of pish. There are plenty of hotels not in the city centre. I'd argue there's actually a good reason to build one in Gorgie as there aren't any nearby to compete with. It's close to the city centre with excellent transport links. 

 

[Hungry hippo]

32 minutes ago, Sooks said:

What is the obvious reason why there is no hotel on Gorgie Road 

 

The Ardmillan Hotel does alright.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

24 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I only see his posts when some one quotes them but yeah I am surprised he is Hearts

 

IIRC its Gary Locke's dad, pretty certain he'll be Hearts.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

Sorry but you are wrong Smithee. The original budget did not include for a new pitch.

I sat in at the preliminary design and cost meetings and there was no mention of a new hybrid pitch.

 

I've had to prove this before, I can't speak for internal meetings but I did have copies of the fliers and info releases. If I find them I'll report back

[Thomaso]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I've had to prove this before, I can't speak for internal meetings but I did have copies of the fliers and info releases. If I find them I'll report back

Not sure what you have but here is the press announcement on the hybrid pitch months after the opening of the new stand. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

Not sure what you have but here is the press announcement on the hybrid pitch months after the opening of the new stand. 

 

I'm talking about releases announcing the new stand development, where a new pitch was included.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Regarding cost and risk, one cost in opening a hotel is invariably if you're going to have a restaurant in it, there's a substantial cost to kitting that out, and most hotels will want a bar included too.

 

Tynecastle already has a lovely restaurant that would just need to be staffed for breakfast and a few more evenings. The hotel will drive more traffic to that existing facility.

[Sooks]

55 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

The Ardmillan Hotel does alright.

It would be good to know how they managed to circumvent the obvious reason why hotels in the area can not do well

[Thomaso]

34 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm talking about releases announcing the new stand development, where a new pitch was included.

Here is the subsequent press announcement by Budge confirming that the cost had increased to £18m for various upgrades including a new £1m hybrid pitch.

[Jamboross]

5 hours ago, McCrae said:

Can’t see it working out… their is a very obvious reason no other hotel has set up in Gorgie.

 

There might not (yet) be an abundance of hotels in Gorgie but a quick look on AirBnB would suggest there is already an appetite for accommodation in the area. 

 

You see what's happened to Leith in the last ten years or so with rapid gentrification and it becoming a bit of a destination? Gorgie and Dalry are starting to go the same way. The city centre - particularly the business/financial services part of it - is creeping it's way closer, look at the huge new developments at Haymarket and Fountain Bridge barely a ten minute walk from Tynecastle. There's some very bloody expensive new flats and houses just been completed in the old Springwell House and there's about to be a huge increase in the amount of student housing into the area too which will likely bring some more life to the area. Oh and student housing operators frequently rent rooms out to tourists during the summer months to stop their expensive buildings sitting empty. On top of that there's some damn good dining options within a 5-10 minute walk of McLeod St (not to mention our own restaurant).

 

 I'm not saying we're going to be seeing Gorgie highlighted alongside Shibuya and Greenwich Village in Lonley Planet any time soon but its not the complete shithole area it once was and is very much an on the up neighbourhood on the fringes of the centre of the second biggest city in the UK for tourism and one of the main European financial centres. A small boutique accommodation offering will do just fine. 

[Vlad Magic]

Are those laser quest type games still popular?

 

Could be an option.

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Are those laser quest type games still popular?

 

Could be an option.

 

 

I dunno, I'll ask my laser  team - wolf alpha thunder fist. 

[Vlad Magic]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

I dunno, I'll ask my laser  team - wolf alpha thunder fist. 

I’ll have a chat with my boys and see if they will come out of retirement. 
 

Team Mad Vlads Bad Boys will see you in the game zone!!

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Here is the subsequent press announcement by Budge confirming that the cost had increased to £18m for various upgrades including a new £1m hybrid pitch.

 

 

Yip and as the disco thread highlights new flood lighting as well, I'm sure that was the best part of £500k, although I could be off there. 

 

It's much more than a new stand ( with seats). 

 

You've done That to death tho. 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Bazzas right boot