Jump to content

Russia Invades Ukraine


Greenbank2
 Share

Recommended Posts

The "buffer zone" nations were fine as neutral(ish) buffer states.

Not being aligned either with either the EU or Russia kept things quiet (more or less).

Over time, some have politically drifted west, others have drifted east.
 

2004 saw Czechia, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia all join the EU.

2007 saw Bulgaria and Romania join the EU.
This has led to a kind of new cold war in eastern europe and the caucuses as Russia plays catch-up with The West and drags the remaining independent states on its border into its sphere of influence.

In the caucuses, Georgia was provoked and made the stupid error of firing first.

The Stans are all heavily Russia-leaning (see for example Russian troops putting down a rebellion in Kazakhstan earlier this month).

Belarus is heavily pro-Russia.

Russia and Turkey are also both heavily involved on opposite sides of the unsolvable, ridiculous mess that Armenia and Azerbaijan find themselves in.

Have no doubt, a cold war has been underway since the 2004 EU enlargement.
 

Ukraine's public had been leaning west but its leader was leaning east. Then came the 2014 ousting of that leader.

The West fecked up here by having US embassy staff on the streets urging the public on and flying in people like John McCain to give speeches.

That was a serious miscalculation and Putin responded in the traditional Russian way; he invaded and annexed Crimea and then started a guerrilla war in the east of Ukraine that's been going ever since.

We're now seeing the endgame of the 2014 revolution with Russia about to bite off a large chunk of eastern Ukraine for keeps.

Is Russia in the same place as the UK was after WW2; struggling for relevance as a global power and launching silly little colonial wars in a last-ditch attempt to be taken seriously on the world stage?
Is this really as simple as being about oil and gas pipelines and money?
Is it Putin dealing with troubles at home by playing the hard man with distracting little wars?

Or is it a mix of all three?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 8.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • jonesy

    316

  • Mikey1874

    411

  • redjambo

    492

  • JamesM48

    296

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

This is fag packet opinions but if Russia were to invade and take Ukraine then the small border length they currently do share with NATO countries just gets a hell of a lot larger given Ukraine borders Romania, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland.

 

I think NATO is the excuse, reality is Russia want their Soviet states back. 

 

All pretty grim tbh.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

davemclaren
14 minutes ago, Homme said:

This is fag packet opinions but if Russia were to invade and take Ukraine then the small border length they currently do share with NATO countries just gets a hell of a lot larger given Ukraine borders Romania, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland.

 

I think NATO is the excuse, reality is Russia want their Soviet states back. 

 

All pretty grim tbh.

 

All declining empires go though vainglorious episodes - like Suez for instance. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

Is Russia really about to invade Ukraine or is this simply Johnson's latest effort to deflect attention away from his own monumental inability to demonstrate any kind of leadership?

 

USA needs to up the ante on its "enemies" to distract from their own economic mess (and allow grandpa Joe some breathing space for afternoon naps) - and expects its lapdogs to follow suit (UK will, Germany won't)

NATO in Ukraine is exactly the same as USSR in Cuba in 1963. What did/do they expect?

 

Easter European nations make overtures to the EU and NATO because their populations have looked west for years thinking "I'll have some of that". And when they do, what the west gets is increased demands for financial support, economic and criminal migrants, loss of jobs to low paid labour and the rise of right wing nationalism in these former eastern bloc countries.

 

So why should WE care what happens in Ukraine? This is about the west picking fights and Putin trying to show he's a big swinging dick. And Johnson trying to distract from his own lies.

🤣🤣🤣

Link to comment
Share on other sites

EU "territorial gains" (and one loss) since 2004:

EU enlargement.png

 

And here we have the Russian Federation's "territorial gains" since 2004:

rusha.png

Edited by Cade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

SwindonJambo
18 minutes ago, Cade said:

EU "territorial gains" (and one loss) since 2004:

EU enlargement.png

 

And here we have the Russian Federation's "territorial gains" since 2004:

rusha.png

 

Good map but the relevant body here isn't the EU but NATO, of which we are founder members with no intention of leaving ever.  The 1999+ intake of ex Warsaw pact members weren't cajoled into joining the EU and NATO, they all joined ox their own volition and were only part of the Soviet system under sufferance. I know Poland very well and have friends there. There is zero love for the Soviet era there and it's the same elsewhere in the region - Czechia, Slovakia and all the others. Over in Belarus, Lukashenko is a deeply corrupt despot who conducts sham elections and shuts down and intimidates all opposition as does Putin himself. There were mass protests against him last year. There's little doubt that were it not for Lukashenko, the majority of Belarusians would much prefer an open westernised system. Many Belarusians have fled to the West.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

European nations NATO membership since WW2:

NATO.jpg

Georgia has been accelerating membership talks.

2003: Georgia asked for accession talks.
2008: NATO summit in Bucharest stated that Georgia membership would be expediated.
2008: Boom, Russian invasion.

 

Ukraine has been accelerating membership talks.

2005: Intensive accession talks began.
2010: Pro-Russia president elected.
2014: Revolution.
2014: Boom, Russian invasion.

 

Bosnia has been accelerating membership talks.
2008: Bosnia formally begins the accession process.
This stalls almost immediately due to the fractured nature of Bosnian politics and the fact that there is no such thing as a single Bosnian Armed Forces, the armed forces being split between the various political factions.
2022: Bosnia is on the verge of breaking up due to the Bosnian Serb autonomous region (Republika Srpska) about to formally take control of a portion of the Army and possibly declare independence.
US and EU are launching sanctions against the Bosnian Serbs, Putin and China are bankrolling them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The chocolate Hardmen fae the west won't lift a finger to help the Ukraine when Russia invade. They're all Pathetic. If they were as tough as they talk, there'd be Troops, Planes, Ships, and tanks on their way or already there. 

But , naw, these shitebags threaten sanctions. Terrifying stuff. : 😨 Maybe if they were wee Sand people we'd try to batter them and lose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scotland could make a fortune post independence from the naval base. Russia, US, China and ruk make your bids. 

 

:sweeet:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tennant's  6's
7 hours ago, davemclaren said:

All declining empires go though vainglorious episodes - like Suez for instance. 

With the US being the declining empire. 

Can't blame Russia getting tetchy after yet another cia right wing coup that ousted the previous east leaning Ukrainian president and the nato client states encircling them, as the us is doing in asia with china.

 

Thec west training and weaponsising Ukraine and its neo nazi malitias in the azov battallion will no doubt enrage others in the region. 

 

But, it'll bump up arms sales & oil/ gas prices, So it's win win for the puppeteers who control the politicians., who get to look 'tough'..

They couldn't give a damn about the people of Ukraine,  like the people of Iraq,  Libya,  Syria etc before them..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

highlandjambo3
13 hours ago, Spellczech said:

 

Google says Russia has 23k tanks in total though.

 

We only have 227 Challenger tanks and they were described as ageing last year. Only 148 to be upgraded to Challenger 3...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-57025266#:~:text=The British Army has 227,digital turret and smoothbore gun.

 

I think we'd get steamrollered before the 9k Abrams could get across the Atlantic...

Lots of good tanks throughout the rest of Europe…….leopard 2 highly praised as the actual best tank in the globe……..of course there is not enough of them though.

 

 

64225ABE-DD7D-4398-B99B-5A69006DC22E.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greenbank2

A read of this will give a really good insight into the geo-political reasons why Russia needs a strong level of influence in Ukraine. They are not going to have this threatened.

 

There are some harsh political reasons which are weighing heavy over the security and geographical issues though. The propaganda which western powers feed their populations that the "right" political model is "freedom" is relying more and more on talking up the threat to that freedom (militarily that is non existent) but economically is very real. How many people will feel more free next winter where the cost of living and taxes hit very very hard? This means that Western powers, in particular the US and UK, need to manipulate enemies to rally the populace and deflect from their own leadership failings.

 

People need to question and challenge exactly what our version of "freedom" is delivering for them - and accept that their are other models in powerful nations which are different, and working for them eg Saudi Arabia, China. We don't need to agree with it, (the extent to which we believe these models work is mainly influenced by the propaganda we are fed by our MSM) but looking to pick fights? Really? nb. not saying Russia's is working

 

But - the current US/UK version of "freedom" isn't working either. The wealth is becoming more concentrated - I'm not talking about the minority who earn 6 figure salaries, I'm talking about those amassing wealth of 100's of millions, meanwhile poverty is about to go through the roof. Leading this are the US and UK. Many people will squeal "I'm alriight though!"

 

I've lived and worked in many countries including Russia and most of the former USSR - including some in central Asia, and while our democracy is a far better option than all of these (IMO) we do not live in the utopia that governments would have us believe. The living standard of most Northern European countries compared with the UK for comparable professions is much better. But it doesn't count because they're only Johnny Foreigners right?

 

This whole situation has resulted in much of the eastern bloc looking to the west and going "I want some of that - how can I get it". While over the last 30 years, for some it has worked, but it has not been easy. I worked in Poland in the late 90's and an engineering graduate in an American high tech firm told me that the polish workers used to have a saying "If I stand up I get paid, If I lie down I get paid - might as well lie down". Now Poland has turned the corner, but it has taken a long time, and it was always in the vanguard for change. I have visited Ukraine. Take that old Polish attitude, multiply it by 100's and that's what we're picking a fight for. Sure there are many good people, but it is a different culture that will take decades to change. They see the EU/NATO as a quick fix. And "we" are happy to use it as a pawn to pick a fight and deflect attention from our own failings.

 

What failings many will ask. Well apart from the immediacy of the cost of living, inflation, vacuous self centered "leadership", how about the £4.8 BILLION in emergency covid loans to business (to many businesses that no longer trade!) written off yesterday because of fraud. How many hospitals, doctors, nurses, teachers could that have funded? And a government minister resigned because of it. Where are the investigations and outrage in the press? No. The agenda is better served by garnering support for our fatally flawed "leaders" as they pick a fight with Bad Vlad.

 

51K4Edsxv-L._SX324_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

dobmisterdobster

Good to see both sides of the commons discussing the Ukraine issue with one voice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shits about it hit the fan, by the looks of it . If Russia starts this, I think it may start WW3 . Head bangers ruining the world .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

coconut doug
22 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

A read of this will give a really good insight into the geo-political reasons why Russia needs a strong level of influence in Ukraine. They are not going to have this threatened.

 

There are some harsh political reasons which are weighing heavy over the security and geographical issues though. The propaganda which western powers feed their populations that the "right" political model is "freedom" is relying more and more on talking up the threat to that freedom (militarily that is non existent) but economically is very real. How many people will feel more free next winter where the cost of living and taxes hit very very hard? This means that Western powers, in particular the US and UK, need to manipulate enemies to rally the populace and deflect from their own leadership failings.

 

People need to question and challenge exactly what our version of "freedom" is delivering for them - and accept that their are other models in powerful nations which are different, and working for them eg Saudi Arabia, China. We don't need to agree with it, (the extent to which we believe these models work is mainly influenced by the propaganda we are fed by our MSM) but looking to pick fights? Really? nb. not saying Russia's is working

 

But - the current US/UK version of "freedom" isn't working either. The wealth is becoming more concentrated - I'm not talking about the minority who earn 6 figure salaries, I'm talking about those amassing wealth of 100's of millions, meanwhile poverty is about to go through the roof. Leading this are the US and UK. Many people will squeal "I'm alriight though!"

 

I've lived and worked in many countries including Russia and most of the former USSR - including some in central Asia, and while our democracy is a far better option than all of these (IMO) we do not live in the utopia that governments would have us believe. The living standard of most Northern European countries compared with the UK for comparable professions is much better. But it doesn't count because they're only Johnny Foreigners right?

 

This whole situation has resulted in much of the eastern bloc looking to the west and going "I want some of that - how can I get it". While over the last 30 years, for some it has worked, but it has not been easy. I worked in Poland in the late 90's and an engineering graduate in an American high tech firm told me that the polish workers used to have a saying "If I stand up I get paid, If I lie down I get paid - might as well lie down". Now Poland has turned the corner, but it has taken a long time, and it was always in the vanguard for change. I have visited Ukraine. Take that old Polish attitude, multiply it by 100's and that's what we're picking a fight for. Sure there are many good people, but it is a different culture that will take decades to change. They see the EU/NATO as a quick fix. And "we" are happy to use it as a pawn to pick a fight and deflect attention from our own failings.

 

What failings many will ask. Well apart from the immediacy of the cost of living, inflation, vacuous self centered "leadership", how about the £4.8 BILLION in emergency covid loans to business (to many businesses that no longer trade!) written off yesterday because of fraud. How many hospitals, doctors, nurses, teachers could that have funded? And a government minister resigned because of it. Where are the investigations and outrage in the press? No. The agenda is better served by garnering support for our fatally flawed "leaders" as they pick a fight with Bad Vlad.

 

51K4Edsxv-L._SX324_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

  An excellent perspective on where we are at the moment (your comment, not the book). Much of the west (UK and US in particular) are struggling to reach any moral high ground here. I think the plan is to goad Ukraine into provoking Russia then the Russians can be further demonised if they react. Ukraine, same as South Vietnam, South Korea, the mujaheddin in Afghanistan and Isis in the Middle East would be fighting a proxy war. Funded armed and trained by the west but at arms length. It is the Ukrainians who will suffer most. I think many realise this. They have seen what the west and their friendly governments have done in Yemen, Serbia, Libya, Iraq and other places. They are not going all-in with Johnson, Biden, Clinton and Trump.

 

I think Russia and China have other plans which involves economic expansion and war would not be helpful in pursuing that goal. It would though slow their expansion down which is why imo the west are promoting this war. 

 

I have read Marshall's book and i thought it dated, one - sided and totally lacking in perspective. This is more up to date, much more factual and evidential about what is currently happening and what will happen in the very near future..

 

Picture

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

  An excellent perspective on where we are at the moment (your comment, not the book). Much of the west (UK and US in particular) are struggling to reach any moral high ground here. I think the plan is to goad Ukraine into provoking Russia then the Russians can be further demonised if they react. Ukraine, same as South Vietnam, South Korea, the mujaheddin in Afghanistan and Isis in the Middle East would be fighting a proxy war. Funded armed and trained by the west but at arms length. It is the Ukrainians who will suffer most. I think many realise this. They have seen what the west and their friendly governments have done in Yemen, Serbia, Libya, Iraq and other places. They are not going all-in with Johnson, Biden, Clinton and Trump.

 

I think Russia and China have other plans which involves economic expansion and war would not be helpful in pursuing that goal. It would though slow their expansion down which is why imo the west are promoting this war. 

 

I have read Marshall's book and i thought it dated, one - sided and totally lacking in perspective. This is more up to date, much more factual and evidential about what is currently happening and what will happen in the very near future..

 

Picture

 

Good book that Frankopan one even allowing for the awful editing that becomes increasingly apparent towards the end. Found it really interesting to read it from the perspective of what's undoubtedly been a step change since it was written as well (Covid). Really helps to frame a lot of the activity that goes on in international relations.

 

+1 as a recommended read

Link to comment
Share on other sites

coconut doug
Just now, Taffin said:

 

Good book that Frankopan one even allowing for the awful editing that becomes increasingly apparent towards the end. Found it really interesting to read it from the perspective of what's undoubtedly been a step change since it was written as well (Covid). Really helps to frame a lot of the activity that goes on in international relations.

 

+1 as a recommended read

 

I agree. There was a lot of quite detailed information which showed the book had been thoroughly researched. I was left with the impression that the rise of China and to a lesser extent Russia was faster and bigger than i had previousl thought. This was to a significant extent because of the failure of the west to act coherently and it seems to me that has got worse since the book was written.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeffros Furios
37 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

  An excellent perspective on where we are at the moment (your comment, not the book). Much of the west (UK and US in particular) are struggling to reach any moral high ground here. I think the plan is to goad Ukraine into provoking Russia then the Russians can be further demonised if they react. Ukraine, same as South Vietnam, South Korea, the mujaheddin in Afghanistan and Isis in the Middle East would be fighting a proxy war. Funded armed and trained by the west but at arms length. It is the Ukrainians who will suffer most. I think many realise this. They have seen what the west and their friendly governments have done in Yemen, Serbia, Libya, Iraq and other places. They are not going all-in with Johnson, Biden, Clinton and Trump.

 

I think Russia and China have other plans which involves economic expansion and war would not be helpful in pursuing that goal. It would though slow their expansion down which is why imo the west are promoting this war. 

 

I have read Marshall's book and i thought it dated, one - sided and totally lacking in perspective. This is more up to date, much more factual and evidential about what is currently happening and what will happen in the very near future..

 

Picture

Russia has taken chunks of Urkraine and threatening to take more,  how is that the west through Ukraine provoking Russia ??

And apart from a few missiles launched on Belgrade what did we do in Serbia ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dusk_Till_Dawn

Seems to me that Putin is bluffing here. He’s got problems at home which he’s trying to distract from and he knows there’ll be a response to any invasion. Ultimately he’s not going to do anything.

 

Hopefully this is him on the way out. He’s ****ing vermin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo

Meanwhile, whilst everyone is looking towards the Ukraine & Russia......China have launched the largest incursion into Taiwanese airspace to date.

 

China & Russia have been getting quite cosy with each other in recent years, could the West be looking at the wrong place....... Putin says, oh, look over here, meanwhile...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Findlay
On 24/01/2022 at 18:26, Malinga the Swinga said:

West only have themselves to blame. Expanding NATO till it was on Russian border was never a smart move. We don't give shit about Ukraine, Crimea or any of these countries. 

If you continually poke a bear, whose fault is it if the bear gets pissed and pokes back a lot harder.

 

 

Eh Nato was always on the border of the Warsaw pact. East and West Germany being a perfect example.

USA Arms Israel. Russia Arms Egypt and Syria. There is not anything new here. Has been going on since the end of WWII.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeffros Furios

I've been reading for quite a while that we recieve very little gas from Russia , 

 Most comes from Norway  then US and Middle East .

If this is true how are we being affected by gas prices to the same extent as countries which import

mainly from Russia ? 

I'm sure there's a straight forward explanation but like a lot of issues my mind is frazzled .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

I've been reading for quite a while that we recieve very little gas from Russia , 

 Most comes from Norway  then US and Middle East .

If this is true how are we being affected by gas prices to the same extent as countries which import

mainly from Russia ? 

I'm sure there's a straight forward explanation but like a lot of issues my mind is frazzled .

 

And bizarrely we are selling billions of pounds worth of gas to Europe as it’s controlled by business and not the government. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

I've been reading for quite a while that we recieve very little gas from Russia , 

 Most comes from Norway  then US and Middle East .

If this is true how are we being affected by gas prices to the same extent as countries which import

mainly from Russia ? 

I'm sure there's a straight forward explanation but like a lot of issues my mind is frazzled .

 

 

Sure its something like 5% of our Gas supplies actually come from Russia. 

 

We are in a really good position. Europe not so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeffros Furios
17 minutes ago, Tazio said:

And bizarrely we are selling billions of pounds worth of gas to Europe as it’s controlled by business and not the government. 

 

12 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

Sure its something like 5% of our Gas supplies actually come from Russia. 

 

We are in a really good position. Europe not so much.

It seems then whoever owns the gas in the UK is inflating the costs to match the countries in Europe who depend on supplies from Russia .

So yet again capitalist greed is shafting us . 

That about right ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

 

It seems then whoever owns the gas in the UK is inflating the costs to match the countries in Europe who depend on supplies from Russia .

So yet again capitalist greed is shafting us . 

That about right ? 

If just had a quick Google and it looks like around half of our gas comes from Europe with around a third of our supply coming from Norway. One big issue that might already be on the thread is Germany gets around 40% if it's gas from Russia. They might try and get gas from other countries that could affect our supplies

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo
4 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

If just had a quick Google and it looks like around half of our gas comes from Europe with around a third of our supply coming from Norway. One big issue that might already be on the thread is Germany gets around 40% if it's gas from Russia. They might try and get gas from other countries that could affect our supplies

 

I posted this link the other day, here is the key stats.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58637094

About half of UK gas supplies are of domestic origin, from the North Sea. The UK has been a big producer of gas since the mid-1960s, but output has fallen since 2000 and usage continues to rise.

Another one-third of the UK's gas comes through pipelines from Norway.

The rest consists almost entirely of imports of liquefied natural gas (LNG), which arrive in Britain by sea from countries such as Qatar, the US and even Trinidad and Tobago.

The small amount of Russian gas that does reach the UK comes in LNG form.

LNG supplies are particularly sensitive to global market prices and are sold to whoever pays the most, with China one of the keenest bidders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

USA has already pledged to plug any gaps in gas supply to Europe, should Putin turn the taps off.

 

 

Edited by Cade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo
26 minutes ago, Cade said:

USA has already pledged to plug any gaps in gas supply to Europe, should Putin turn the taps off.

 

 

 

Yip, hence why Germany announced (yesterday?) that if Russia invades Ukraine that Nordstream 2 would not get turned on, which would be a utter financial disaster for Russia.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SwindonJambo
17 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yip, hence why Germany announced (yesterday?) that if Russia invades Ukraine that Nordstream 2 would not get turned on, which would be a utter financial disaster for Russia.

 

Good that alternative supplies have been secured. Germany and other European countries have been breathtakingly naive in making themselves so heavily reliant on Russian gas. They've handed Putin a geopolitical weapon with their eyes wide open. Hopefully this source of alternative supplies calls his bluff.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo
24 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Good that alternative supplies have been secured. Germany and other European countries have been breathtakingly naive in making themselves so heavily reliant on Russian gas. They've handed Putin a geopolitical weapon with their eyes wide open. Hopefully this source of alternative supplies calls his bluff.

 

 

 

Agree totally.

All that Putin has done is to highlight how much mainland Europe is dependant on Russian oil & gas and has now warned them of that fact.

I'd say he's overplayed his hand on this part, because mainland European countries will I hope have woken up and will now start to move away from being so dependant on Russia for their energy, this in turn will hit the Russian economy hard, it will still take years though.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I posted this link the other day, here is the key stats.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58637094

About half of UK gas supplies are of domestic origin, from the North Sea. The UK has been a big producer of gas since the mid-1960s, but output has fallen since 2000 and usage continues to rise.

Another one-third of the UK's gas comes through pipelines from Norway.

The rest consists almost entirely of imports of liquefied natural gas (LNG), which arrive in Britain by sea from countries such as Qatar, the US and even Trinidad and Tobago.

The small amount of Russian gas that does reach the UK comes in LNG form.

LNG supplies are particularly sensitive to global market prices and are sold to whoever pays the most, with China one of the keenest bidders.

i think that might have been the link that i found

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PortyBeach
On 24/01/2022 at 16:34, Greenbank2 said:

Is Russia really about to invade Ukraine or is this simply Johnson's latest effort to deflect attention away from his own monumental inability to demonstrate any kind of leadership?

 

USA needs to up the ante on its "enemies" to distract from their own economic mess (and allow grandpa Joe some breathing space for afternoon naps) - and expects its lapdogs to follow suit (UK will, Germany won't)

NATO in Ukraine is exactly the same as USSR in Cuba in 1963. What did/do they expect?

 

Easter European nations make overtures to the EU and NATO because their populations have looked west for years thinking "I'll have some of that". And when they do, what the west gets is increased demands for financial support, economic and criminal migrants, loss of jobs to low paid labour and the rise of right wing nationalism in these former eastern bloc countries.

 

So why should WE care what happens in Ukraine? This is about the west picking fights and Putin trying to show he's a big swinging dick. And Johnson trying to distract from his own lies.

Good post. I read an article recently where the author suggested that Putin doesn’t want to invade Ukraine and that his military build-up was all about getting the West to talk to Russia about its own security concerns.

Who knows? It might just be true.

I think the danger is that the level of brinkmanship may go too far - to the point that in order to continue to appear a strong and decisive leader Putin feels compelled to order an incursion.

We may have already reached that point in which case the West needs to find a way to give Putin a face-saving means of pulling back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

highlandjambo3
19 hours ago, Cade said:

USA has already pledged to plug any gaps in gas supply to Europe, should Putin turn the taps off.

 

 

There will be a caveat with that…….

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mighty Thor

Spaffer calling his sponsor Putin and visiting the region.

 

The last time he got involved in a major incident with another foreign power Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe got her sentence tripled and has been rotting in an Iranian jail since. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Der Kaiser

"Mr Putin...Its a...a...a...Boris. I..I..I..I..I..I..I...eh..think that....eh....eh...maybe.....going to war....in ...eh...eh......U..Ukraine...m..m..m..might be ...eh....."

 

And it's at this point Putin hangs up on that stuttering welt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Real Maroonblood
10 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

"Mr Putin...Its a...a...a...Boris. I..I..I..I..I..I..I...eh..think that....eh....eh...maybe.....going to war....in ...eh...eh......U..Ukraine...m..m..m..might be ...eh....."

 

And it's at this point Putin hangs up on that stuttering welt.

:lol:

Putin will be quaking in his boots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Chat of WW3 😆

 

Naebody wants to go to war.

 

Saber rattling.

 

Biden appears fairly enthusiastic (backed by the usual suspects in the DoD no doubt). Even the Ukrainian PM has asked him to scale back his rhetoric. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Listening to the podcast Americast this week there was an interesting comment about Putin saying he is a brilliant tactician and a lousy strategist. In other words Putin is absolutely in his element pushing buttons to get a reaction and de-stabilise and wrong foot enemies. However, these tactics would likely have the strategic long term effect of being likely to push Ukraine closer to the West for support.

If Putin wants to further de-stabilise and wrong foot the UK he would do well to hand Boris a huge foreign affairs win to bolster him within the Tories and so Boris can carry on his car crash of a Premiership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 28/01/2022 at 11:52, Jeffros Furios said:

I've been reading for quite a while that we recieve very little gas from Russia , 

 Most comes from Norway  then US and Middle East .

If this is true how are we being affected by gas prices to the same extent as countries which import

mainly from Russia ? 

I'm sure there's a straight forward explanation but like a lot of issues my mind is frazzled .

 

 

This has probably been answered by now but it's basic supply and demand. The UK and European gas markets are connected by pipelines. If Russia restricts supply then the disruption to supply in European countries has a knock-on effect to UK prices as Europe will look to replace supply from the same sources the UK relies on such as Norway.

Edited by pablo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

WorldChampions1902
On 24/01/2022 at 21:34, davemclaren said:

I’m no fan of Putin but no-one likes an opposing alliance moving into their ‘sphere of influence’. The Cuban missile crisis might have been 60 years ago but I doubt Uncle Sam would be quiet if something similar happened in the Americas again. 

God help us if things escalate to the seriousness of the Cuban crisis. That emergency illustrated perfectly how quickly things can spiral out of control. We now know that the ‘Hawks’ in JFK’s Administration very much wanted a pre-emptive  nuclear strike against the Soviets because they believed the US “would win” a nuclear war. Absolutely no regard for the cost of that ‘victory’ though. Utterly terrifying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is ww3 stuff. I hope they keep their squabble to that area of the world and don't effect the rest of us with their daft game of planet chess.

 

Shame for the ordinary people of the Ukraine though. I think the majority of them are generally happier with the democracy, free elections and freedoms which they didn't previously have under the banner of USSR. 

 

It's a really tough decision whether to back the Ukraine for Biden, Johnson, Macron et al... If we don't, the Ukrainians might feel unwanted and decide to capitulate to Russian rule. It would make them look weak, next Putin is taking liberties with Moldova, Georgia and the Baltic States. Under the NATO alliance we would protect Estonia, Lithuania etc... but we wouldn't protect the Ukraine as they're not part of NATO. What are the Baltic states going to think if Putin threatens them? The alliance could collapse and the Russians move further Westwards with more power and influence.  

 

The other decision is to back the Ukraine and possibly defeat the Russians in what would hopefully be a small conventionally fought war on their borders. A defeat or retreat would severely weaken Putin and damage his grip of power. That could possibly trigger a revolution to oust him which would hopefully bring Russia closer to us in the West and further away from China as a future ally and trading partner. 

Edited by Cruyff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

News conference now. 

BBC reporter should stick to Ukraine/Russia crisis and leave Boris' other shite til he gets home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Real Maroonblood
5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

News conference now. 

BBC reporter should stick to Ukraine/Russia crisis and leave Boris' other shite til he gets home.

Maybe Johnson will stay there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Maybe Johnson will stay there.

Don't tease. :D

 

image Putin attacked now. :scared:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Kalamazoo Jambo changed the title to Russia Invades Ukraine

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share




×
×
  • Create New...