Russia Invades Ukraine

[The Mighty Thor]

41 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Scary thought though is that the list of potential replacements isn't any better - last time I looked the runners and riders were Javid, Truss, Patel and Sunak. Best we let him get on with it.

He want's to be Churchill. He is Benny Hill.

 

Personally I'd much rather he was in place whilst this is ongoing.

 

The time for the real questions about this mob and their actions will come after. 

[Tazio]

The young lads getting call up papers probably would have happened anyway. I’ve got a mate who despite living in the UK since he was about 12 got his call up papers for the Russian military and had to avoid going back for a long time until it was sorted. Hilariously he has Israeli dual nationality and got called up by them as well. 

[Maple Leaf]

37 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

If I lived in Estonia, Latvia or Georgia I would definitely be drafting up plans for an emergency sharp exit.

Estonia and Latvia are probably OK as they're part of NATO.  Same with Lithuania.

 

But Georgia is in a similar situation to Ukraine so if Russia is successful with the current invasion, they might cast their eyes toward Georgia.

[Cruyff]

The UK and US should be giving the Ukraine F22's, Typhoons, Apaches, Abrams and Challenger tanks. They should have before Putin invaded because if they did, his forces probably wouldn't be near Ukrainian Cities. The Wests response hasn't been good enough imo. We didn't have to go and fight for the Ukrainians, they are clearly more than capable but giving them the best equipment to do so would have turned the tables on Putin.

[dobmisterdobster]

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

Johnson looking properly confused here because he's confronted by a human being demonstrating human emotions.

 

Important decisions should never be made based on emotions.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Important decisions should never be made based on emotions.

Exactly . This actually may be the making of him if it works out ok ! The seethe if it does 😎 

[Herbert.]

8 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The UK and US should be giving the Ukraine F22's, Typhoons, Apaches, Abrams and Challenger tanks. They should have before Putin invaded because if they did, his forces probably wouldn't be near Ukrainian Cities. The Wests response hasn't been good enough imo. We didn't have to go and fight for the Ukrainians, they are clearly more than capable but giving them the best equipment to do so would have turned the tables on Putin.

 

 

The UK can't afford to give away tanks and planes we have 200 tanks and about 150 fighter aircraft. If we gave them away what do we use? 

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Important decisions should never be made based on emotions.

Never a truer word said. Applies to all circumstances and situations of any importance. 

[SwindonJambo]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Exactly . This actually may be the making of him if it works out ok ! The seethe if it does 😎 

I strongly dislike Boris, but if he performs well in this situation, then he has a chance to save his job. I'm no fan of any of his likely successors either. Not the time for a change of PM.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

He's way out his depth now, and I think it shows.

 

He couldn't run a  bath. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

I strongly dislike Boris, but if he performs well in this situation, then he has a chance to save his job. I'm no fan of any of his likely successors either. Not the time for a change of PM.

No it’s not the right time for any change 

[SwindonJambo]

12 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

The UK can't afford to give away tanks and planes we have 200 tanks and about 150 fighter aircraft. If we gave them away what do we use? 

Poland have given them a bunch of old Mig 29s and replaced with F16s for themselves. A clever move, because the Ukrainian Air Force will be familiar with them and need no training.

[Boab]

26 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The UK and US should be giving the Ukraine F22's, Typhoons, Apaches, Abrams and Challenger tanks. They should have before Putin invaded because if they did, his forces probably wouldn't be near Ukrainian Cities. The Wests response hasn't been good enough imo. We didn't have to go and fight for the Ukrainians, they are clearly more than capable but giving them the best equipment to do so would have turned the tables on Putin.

I think you're seriously underestimating the training required to be a F22 or Typhoon pilot.

It takes our guys a long time to get anywhere near operational level.

Plus, we don't have them to give away as already stated, plus plus ! it would have given that bam more reason to accuse the West of NATO aggression and expansion.

 

[OBE]

21 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The UK and US should be giving the Ukraine F22's, Typhoons, Apaches, Abrams and Challenger tanks. They should have before Putin invaded because if they did, his forces probably wouldn't be near Ukrainian Cities. The Wests response hasn't been good enough imo. We didn't have to go and fight for the Ukrainians, they are clearly more than capable but giving them the best equipment to do so would have turned the tables on Putin.

 

Can imagine it takes many, many months tuition just to fly the aircraft above. Then there'll be months of tuition on the array of weapon systems and countermeasures. Fingers crossed, Putin, will be slotted very shortly...

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

He might not stop at Ukraine but making certain that he doesn't isn't the best approach.

 

Triggering what you hope doesn't happen seems counter-intuitive 

 

1 hour ago, Cade said:

 

The only other place he'll even think of going into is Moldova.

The breakaway "Transnistria"  Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic has already formally asked to re-join the Russian Federation, even though it's not recognised by anyone other than the other basket-case pro-Russia micro-states of South Ossetia, Artsakh and Abkhazia.

 

No danger Putin will touch any EU or NATO member.

 

 

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

it might not you are right. But we left the door open on Ukraine, we have to now set out definitive red lines and hopefully they go back in their box.

 

if they do not then I’d be genuinely fearful of what happens next.

 

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

If I lived in Estonia, Latvia or Georgia I would definitely be drafting up plans for an emergency sharp exit.

I kept banging on here he would never attack Ukraine and only wanted to halt NATO expansion. I now think that was a naive opinion and anything is possible now. Putin has taken Russia all in and years as a pariah state await now so what does he have to lose? Hopefully an internal coup brings him down. 

 

 

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Question is - why are they conscripting* if they have an army of that size ? They don't need any more in numbers to defeat Ukraine.

 

*It might be nothing to do with the situation in Ukraine and simply the normal call up appers. 

 

In terms of it's army and Russian claims that it has a large  , modern army : I was reading a piece by a Finnish defence analyst who said, 'unfortunately for Russia , the bit that's "modern" isn't the bit that's  "large". '. 

I think you put up the Twitter feed story about Aleksandr Dugin. That was a fascinating insight into the thinking at the Kremlin. 

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

 

 

I kept banging on here he would never attack Ukraine and only wanted to halt NATO expansion. I now think that was a naive opinion and anything is possible now. Putin has taken Russia all in and years as a pariah state await now so what does he have to lose? Hopefully an internal coup brings him down. 

 

 

I think you put up the Twitter feed story about Aleksandr Dugin. That was a fascinating insight into the thinking at the Kremlin. 

Yeah, that was me.

Interesting that Putin seems to be following Dugin's thoughts very closely.

And that is scary and a clear indication it will not stop at Ukraine's decruction.

[NANOJAMBO]

47 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The UK and US should be giving the Ukraine F22's, Typhoons, Apaches, Abrams and Challenger tanks. They should have before Putin invaded because if they did, his forces probably wouldn't be near Ukrainian Cities. The Wests response hasn't been good enough imo. We didn't have to go and fight for the Ukrainians, they are clearly more than capable but giving them the best equipment to do so would have turned the tables on Putin.

They've got loads of top end drones, anti tank  stuff , electronics etc that the Russians would love to have. They don't have enough planes (they're outnumberd 10:1) and their air defences are screwed anyway, They'd love to get Iron Dome from the Israelis but Israel isn't interested. 

 

Russia will win because of sheer weight of numbers even though the bulk of their kit (and their troops) is vastly inferior across the battlefield (and the Russians have always known this). What they have is an endless supply of heavy artillery, MLRs & tanks because this is the way they're used to fighting.

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

44 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Exactly . This actually may be the making of him if it works out ok ! The seethe if it does 😎 

Of all the shit you have posted on here , that has to be the worst. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, GBJambo said:

That reporter that gave Boris a hard time. She do the same to the other NATO and EU leaders? 

You do know this was Johnson's own personal tour ?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Let’s face it, we’re standing back and letting Ukraine take a hammering. No amount of sanctions are going to change what’s happening on the ground. We need to take this ***** on.

[GBJambo]

3 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You do know this was Johnson's own personal tour ?

Yep fair play for him being out there 

[SwindonJambo]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Let’s face it, we’re standing back and letting Ukraine take a hammering. No amount of sanctions are going to change what’s happening on the ground. We need to take this ***** on.

If he puts so much as 1 boot on NATO territory, we will. And unfortunately that will start WW3.

[JackLadd]

We also know the SNP agenda is a part Russian divide and conquer operation. No accident Salmo is on Russia Today. None at all.

Edited March 1, 2022 by JackLadd

[SwindonJambo]

4 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

We also know the SNP agenda is a part Russian divide and conquer operation. No accident Salmo is on Russia Today. None at all.

The Russians certainly wanted the UK to break up though I wouldn't in any way associate the SNP with them. Salmond should be off RT pronto. Even the current SNP are openly critical of him still being on it. He does himself no favours at all.

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

I strongly dislike Boris, but if he performs well in this situation, then he has a chance to save his job. I'm no fan of any of his likely successors either. Not the time for a change of PM.

It may postpone the inevitable but it won’t stop it.
 

So far the same failings have been evident in UK govt response as we’ve seen time and again. Truss misspeaking, Patel having to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing the decent thing, confusing statements and policy being rushed put and clarified/u-turned within 24 hours and Johnson claiming he’s ‘leading the world’ when he was actually shunted to the subs bench. 

[Alex Kintner]

29 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Of all the shit you have posted on here , that has to be the worst. 

Nowhere near the worst. 😄

[NANOJAMBO]

Russian soldier fires his gun to warn off a human blockade. He gives up and gets in his jeep.

if the Russians are meeting this much resistance from unarmed civilians they must be getting worried at what awaits them in Kyiv.

 

 

[highlandjambo3]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

The UK and US should be giving the Ukraine F22's, Typhoons, Apaches, Abrams and Challenger tanks. They should have before Putin invaded because if they did, his forces probably wouldn't be near Ukrainian Cities. The Wests response hasn't been good enough imo. We didn't have to go and fight for the Ukrainians, they are clearly more than capable but giving them the best equipment to do so would have turned the tables on Putin.

🧐 Aye…….cos they’re all easy to use.  

Mate of mine tried to become an army helicopter pilot, first step was fixed wing aircraft with the all the theory and principles of flight and all the gubbings that go with it…..finished fixed wing and passed his private pilots licence test…..moved onto rotary aircraft…..flying a basic helicopter by day and night….then onto the tactical flying of rotary aircraft like Lowe level flight, reconnaissance etc…..after 8 months and a number of “tactical flying” retests, he was told he was done.  That’s 8 months without even getting near apache and all the technology/weapons that goes with it………..also, the UK has about 68 of these at £10 million a pop for the basic model, how many should we give them?

[The Real Maroonblood]

20 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

We also know the SNP agenda is a part Russian divide and conquer operation. No accident Salmo is on Russia Today. None at all.

[Alex Kintner]

23 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

We also know the SNP agenda is a part Russian divide and conquer operation. No accident Salmo is on Russia Today. None at all.

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Nowhere near the worst. 😄

I normally have him blocked - so you could be right. 😆

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Herbert said:

 

 

The UK can't afford to give away tanks and planes we have 200 tanks and about 150 fighter aircraft. If we gave them away what do we use? 

1 or 2 from each Nation adds up to a lot!

51 minutes ago, Boab said:

I think you're seriously underestimating the training required to be a F22 or Typhoon pilot.

It takes our guys a long time to get anywhere near operational level.

Plus, we don't have them to give away as already stated, plus plus ! it would have given that bam more reason to accuse the West of NATO aggression and expansion.

 

That would be a bit rich coming from Russia who've used chemical weapons on our shores as well as arming and paying Afghan Militants & Taliban bounties to kill British & American troops in Afghanistan.

 

45 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

Can imagine it takes many, many months tuition just to fly the aircraft above. Then there'll be months of tuition on the array of weapon systems and countermeasures. Fingers crossed, Putin, will be slotted very shortly...

Of course but Russia have been planning this for years. The start of this was 6 years ago or so. Russia had been building forces up over a year ago.

 

We should have ensured Ukraine had the means to defend itself. As ever, the West have been caught napping. 

 

29 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

They've got loads of top end drones, anti tank  stuff , electronics etc that the Russians would love to have. They don't have enough planes (they're outnumberd 10:1) and their air defences are screwed anyway, They'd love to get Iron Dome from the Israelis but Israel isn't interested. 

 

Russia will win because of sheer weight of numbers even though the bulk of their kit (and their troops) is vastly inferior across the battlefield (and the Russians have always known this). What they have is an endless supply of heavy artillery, MLRs & tanks because this is the way they're used to fighting.

 

 

The Ukrainians need air superiority. If they had that, they'd successfully defend their Country against the Russians, without it they are sitting ducks. 

[NANOJAMBO]

Don't tell 'em Pike !!

 

Putin's budy with a war map of Ukraine ? 

 

[Cruyff]

9 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

🧐 Aye…….cos they’re all easy to use.  

Mate of mine tried to become an army helicopter pilot, first step was fixed wing aircraft with the all the theory and principles of flight and all the gubbings that go with it…..finished fixed wing and passed his private pilots licence test…..moved onto rotary aircraft…..flying a basic helicopter by day and night….then onto the tactical flying of rotary aircraft like Lowe level flight, reconnaissance etc…..after 8 months and a number of “tactical flying” retests, he was told he was done.  That’s 8 months without even getting near apache and all the technology/weapons that goes with it………..also, the UK has about 68 of these at £10 million a pop for the basic model, how many should we give them?

See latest post. 👍

We should have done it years ago. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

1 or 2 from each Nation adds up to a lot!

That would be a bit rich coming from Russia who've used chemical weapons on our shores as well as arming and paying Afghan Militants & Taliban bounties to kill British & American troops in Afghanistan.

 

Of course but Russia have been planning this for years. The start of this was 6 years ago or so. Russia had been building forces up over a year ago.

 

We should have ensured Ukraine had the means to defend itself. As ever, the West have been caught napping. 

 

The Ukrainians need air superiority. If they had that, they'd successfully defend their Country against the Russians, without it they are sitting ducks. 

How do you get air superiority when you're outnumbered 10:1 ?

The Russians targeted/degraded  their air defence systems from the start but decided not to engage them in the air - so far. 

 

[Herbert.]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

1 or 2 from each Nation adds up to a lot!

That would be a bit rich coming from Russia who've used chemical weapons on our shores as well as arming and paying Afghan Militants & Taliban bounties to kill British & American troops in Afghanistan.

 

Of course but Russia have been planning this for years. The start of this was 6 years ago or so. Russia had been building forces up over a year ago.

 

We should have ensured Ukraine had the means to defend itself. As ever, the West have been caught napping. 

 

The Ukrainians need air superiority. If they had that, they'd successfully defend their Country against the Russians, without it they are sitting ducks. 

 

 

1 or 2 in drips and drabs is nothing. You would need to get 3-400 tanks in at once. Same with air power you would need to dominate them aswell as destroy AA systems and to do that would take more than a few planes dug out from storage.

[OBE]

16 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

🧐 Aye…….cos they’re all easy to use.  

Mate of mine tried to become an army helicopter pilot, first step was fixed wing aircraft with the all the theory and principles of flight and all the gubbings that go with it…..finished fixed wing and passed his private pilots licence test…..moved onto rotary aircraft…..flying a basic helicopter by day and night….then onto the tactical flying of rotary aircraft like Lowe level flight, reconnaissance etc…..after 8 months and a number of “tactical flying” retests, he was told he was done.  That’s 8 months without even getting near apache and all the technology/weapons that goes with it………..also, the UK has about 68 of these at £10 million a pop for the basic model, how many should we give them?

 

A wee bit under there Bud...$60 to $130 mill...

[highlandjambo3]

7 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

See latest post. 👍

We should have done it years ago. 

You started that post by saying “we should be”….suggesting present and not past……you then mentioned “should have” which is of course correct……way to late now to supply high end equipment that also requires high end training.

[highlandjambo3]

Just now, OBE said:

 

A wee bit under there Bud...$60 to $130 mill...

I’ve been in one……..the ones with the cup holders come in at the top end……unfortunately the British army decided against this vital piece of equipment.

[jambosean75]

19 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Russian soldier fires his gun to warn off a human blockade. He gives up and gets in his jeep.

if the Russians are meeting this much resistance from unarmed civilians they must be getting worried at what awaits them in Kyiv.

 

 

 

that takes some serious baws

[OBE]

11 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

1 or 2 from each Nation adds up to a lot!

That would be a bit rich coming from Russia who've used chemical weapons on our shores as well as arming and paying Afghan Militants & Taliban bounties to kill British & American troops in Afghanistan.

 

Of course but Russia have been planning this for years. The start of this was 6 years ago or so. Russia had been building forces up over a year ago.

 

We should have ensured Ukraine had the means to defend itself. As ever, the West have been caught napping. 

 

The Ukrainians need air superiority. If they had that, they'd successfully defend their Country against the Russians, without it they are sitting ducks. 

 

12 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

1 or 2 from each Nation adds up to a lot!

That would be a bit rich coming from Russia who've used chemical weapons on our shores as well as arming and paying Afghan Militants & Taliban bounties to kill British & American troops in Afghanistan.

 

Of course but Russia have been planning this for years. The start of this was 6 years ago or so. Russia had been building forces up over a year ago.

 

We should have ensured Ukraine had the means to defend itself. As ever, the West have been caught napping. 

 

The Ukrainians need air superiority. If they had that, they'd successfully defend their Country against the Russians, without it they are sitting ducks. 

 

For the last 27 month, the majority of the world has just gone toe-to-toe with a novel virus... 

[Cruyff]

10 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

How do you get air superiority when you're outnumbered 10:1 ?

The Russians targeted/degraded  their air defence systems from the start but decided not to engage them in the air - so far. 

 

With better equipment. You said it yourself, the Russians have a large army but their new modern stuff is few and far between and most of it is still being tested. 

5 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

1 or 2 in drips and drabs is nothing. You would need to get 3-400 tanks in at once. Same with air power you would need to dominate them aswell as destroy AA systems and to do that would take more than a few planes dug out from storage.

1 or 2 from 20-30 Countries on top of the kit they already have is hardly nothing. Every little helps. We cannot allow Russia to take Ukraine and start basing ICBM's and all sorts of stuff closer to allied Countries. 

 

3 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

You started that post by saying “we should be”….suggesting present and not past……you then mentioned “should have” which is of course correct……way to late now to supply high end equipment that also requires high end training.

Yep,  too little too late it seems. 

[Cruyff]

Just now, OBE said:

 

For the last 27 month, the majority of the world has just gone toe-to-toe with a novel virus... 

We've taken our eye of the ball. 

[dobmisterdobster]

57 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You do know this was Johnson's own personal tour ?

 

He's in Estonia where Britain are based as part of the NATO operation.

[Boab]

maybe, just maybe, the West don't want to hand over top end fighters with all the classified info therein ?
A F-35 went down recently and there is an almighty scramble going on to retrieve it. For a very good reason.
I think we can dispense with this argument about giving them our best fighters ! It's fantasy stuff.

[Herbert.]

12 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

With better equipment. You said it yourself, the Russians have a large army but their new modern stuff is few and far between and most of it is still being tested. 

1 or 2 from 20-30 Countries on top of the kit they already have is hardly nothing. Every little helps. We cannot allow Russia to take Ukraine and start basing ICBM's and all sorts of stuff closer to allied Countries. 

 

Yep,  too little too late it seems. 

 

 

1 or 2 from 30 is still a drop in the ocean. Also you should read up on ICBMs a few hundred miles closer to a NATO country doesn't make it anymore of a threat. Its just going to get there a wee bit quicker.

[Herbert.]

1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

Poland have given them a bunch of old Mig 29s and replaced with F16s for themselves. A clever move, because the Ukrainian Air Force will be familiar with them and need no training.

 

 

How many NATO Countries have MIGS sitting in storage? Maybe sending some AA and long range artillery along with more anti tank weapons would help more than planes. Right now it's a defensive war for the Ukraine and offensive weapons are not really useful.

[Fitzroy Pointon]

21 minutes ago, jambosean75 said:

 

that takes some serious baws

 

Massive baws. I wouldn't trust them not to just start driving into them. We know how they like to treat protesters in their own country. 

[Cruyff]

6 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

1 or 2 from 30 is still a drop in the ocean. Also you should read up on ICBMs a few hundred miles closer to a NATO country doesn't make it anymore of a threat. Its just going to get there a wee bit quicker.

Exactly. Less warning time, less chance of shooting it down.