1971fozzy Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Vlad Magic said: If Putin launched a single nuclear warhead he would be responsible for the ultimate wipe out of millions of Russians. His ego will not allow that to happen. he is off the scale. I don’t think anyone can second guess what he is capable of. This isn’t ending well no matter what happens. He rules his own country by complete fear. Been in power for what 20 years ? See what he does to anyone who dares oppose his leadership. An absolute nutcase who should never of been given the path to power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, Francis Albert said: Nuclear weapons were involved? The definition of a conventional war is surely one not involving nuclear weapons? Not really. When it's largely guerilla warfare then it's not a conventional war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, Francis Albert said: Nuclear weapons were involved? The definition of a conventional war is surely one not involving nuclear weapons? No it's not. Conventional warfare is a form of warfare conducted by using conventional weapons and battlefield tactics between two or more states in open confrontation. The forces on each side are well-defined, and fight using weapons that primarily target the opponent's military. It is normally fought using conventional weapons, and not with chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennant's 6's Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said: he is off the scale. I don’t think anyone can second guess what he is capable of. This isn’t ending well no matter what happens. He rules his own country by complete fear. Been in power for what 20 years ? See what he does to anyone who dares oppose his leadership. An absolute nutcase who should never of been given the path to power That wee clip of him grilling that intelligence chief was brutal. The guy was caught by fear and turned into a blubbering idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 21 minutes ago, Victorian said: It's hardly comparable. Just like the Russians getting bogged down in Afghanistan. I'm talking about a straight up conventional war between two sides of modern, mechanised, regular forces. You mean a war that Russia would win. In the absence of massive and immediate support from the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, jamb0_1874 said: I think they'll look to take control of everything to the east of the river that splits the country in two. Giving them a land bridge to Crimea. There was some speculation today on the News that Ukraine government/military may be setting a scorched earth scenario to blow up some of these bridges if they feel close to defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, Francis Albert said: You mean a war that Russia would win. In the absence of massive and immediate support from the US. NATO. Last time I looked, the US was part of NATO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Cruyff said: No it's not. Conventional warfare is a form of warfare conducted by using conventional weapons and battlefield tactics between two or more states in open confrontation. The forces on each side are well-defined, and fight using weapons that primarily target the opponent's military. It is normally fought using conventional weapons, and not with chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons. As I said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 38 minutes ago, Victorian said: Of course. NATO forces would batter the living **** out of Russia in a pound for pound conventional war. Land, sea and air. A complete mis-match. Fao the confused Francis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Victorian said: NATO. Last time I looked, the US was part of NATO. In military terms NATO pretty much equals the USA and always has done. Equals as is in equivalent to. Edited February 25, 2022 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 48 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said: It's the fear of Putin doing something even more stupid (nukes) that is stopping anyone from intervening. Nato would crush them. Correct. For all the bullshit about Russian special forces on the ground (mostly based on racial stereotypes) and weapons technology, the answer, as ever, lies in economics and military spending. If NATO and Russia faced each other off in conventional warfare, Russia could not last long. NATO's forces outman, outgun, and out-tech Russia by a colossal margin. In fact, the United States alone has firepower far beyond what the Russians could sustain over any reasonable period of time. However, that assumes an all-out conflict, and assumes no nuclear intervention - and nuclear intervention is what equalises the balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Cruyff said: No it's not. Conventional warfare is a form of warfare conducted by using conventional weapons and battlefield tactics between two or more states in open confrontation. The forces on each side are well-defined, and fight using weapons that primarily target the opponent's military. It is normally fought using conventional weapons, and not with chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons. Fao the confused Francis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: In military terms NATO pretty much equals the USA and always has done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: As I said! The chemical weapons used in Vietnam were horrendous. Conventional or not, horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Victorian said: NATO. Last time I looked, the US was part of NATO. My point was precisely that the US is a part of NATO and really the only part of NATO that counts in any fight against Russia. Nice face palm though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ulysses said: However, that assumes an all-out conflict, and assumes no nuclear intervention - and nuclear intervention is what equalises the balance. Yep, sadly. In footballing parlance, a nuclear war between the 2 would probably be mankind's last ever match - an explosive 0-0 draw !! 😵 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tennant's 6's said: That wee clip of him grilling that intelligence chief was brutal. The guy was caught by fear and turned into a blubbering idiot. Just watched that clip. Brutal but a clear indication of the kind of person we’re dealing with here. He’s got a coupon and personae you’d never tire of slapping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said: he is off the scale. I don’t think anyone can second guess what he is capable of. This isn’t ending well no matter what happens. He rules his own country by complete fear. Been in power for what 20 years ? See what he does to anyone who dares oppose his leadership. An absolute nutcase who should never of been given the path to power If we were to turn the propaganda back on Russia this is the road i'd go down. Big tough bear fighting Russian men scared to death from a Napoleonic figure like Putin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said: Good message by BJ just released He didn’t look to good! He looks like Carrie has been demanding round the clock sex! Great when you are in your early 20s 🥴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Boab said: The chemical weapons used in Vietnam were horrendous. Conventional or not, horrible. Indeed. Your point? They were part of a conventional that is non nuclear war. As were many of atrocities in non nuclear wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: My point was precisely that the US is a part of NATO and really the only part of NATO that counts in any fight against Russia. Nice face palm though. No, your point was to cast doubt on NATO beating Russia in a conventional war by referencing an irrelevant guerilla war. Then you misunderstood the meaning of what a conventional war is. Then you got confused between what was originally said re NATO, Russia and the US. I think you should be sent to negotiate with Putin. He'd surrender after about 4 sentences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, Francis Albert said: As I said! But the Vietnam war wasn't a conventional war. It was a Guerilla insurgency in the South with the NFL . The NVA may have been a conventional force but they didn't fight by conventional means. Had they done so, they probably would have lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Lone Striker said: Yep, sadly. In footballing parlance, a nuclear war between the 2 would probably be mankind's last ever match - an explosive 0-0 draw !! 😵 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: Indeed. Your point? They were part of a conventional that is non nuclear war. As were many of atrocities in non nuclear wars. The definition of conventional was put up, FA. Chemical was mentioned as not normally part of that definition. Probably means WW1 wasn't either as chemical weapons were used there also. Maybe a dodgy definition ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, Boab said: The chemical weapons used in Vietnam were horrendous. Conventional or not, horrible. “I love the smell of napalm in the morning.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennant's 6's Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said: Just watched that clip. Brutal but a clear indication of the kind of person we’re dealing with here. He’s got a coupon and personae you’d never tire of slapping True, but i don't buy that all this is happening just because he's the latest bad guy maniac. It's got to be much more nuanced than that. As much as he seems like an arrogant prick, he's not stupid. They must see NATO (US) expansion to their doorstep as an existential threat, why else would they go and do this with all the risks attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, Tennant's 6's said: True, but i don't buy that all this is happening just because he's the latest bad guy maniac. It's got to be much more nuanced than that. As much as he seems like an arrogant prick, he's not stupid. They must see NATO (US) expansion to their doorstep as an existential threat, why else would they go and do this with all the risks attached. Fair point. First, because Putin is not daft, and secondly because this isn't about him, it's about Russia. People shouldn't think for a second that Russia's strategic calculations would change if Putin were to drop dead in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: “I love the smell of napalm in the morning.” Thinking more Agent Orange ! We used it before the Yanks incidentally ! Horrible stuff ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Slog Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: “I love the smell of napalm in the morning.” Daniel, there are pictures of the russians with thermobaric missile launchers at the border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tennant's 6's said: True, but i don't buy that all this is happening just because he's the latest bad guy maniac. It's got to be much more nuanced than that. As much as he seems like an arrogant prick, he's not stupid. They must see NATO (US) expansion to their doorstep as an existential threat, why else would they go and do this with all the risks attached. Of course. It's propaganda to portray him as a maniac. A clever man. Ruthless ? Probably. Look at the bag of spuds running our gaff ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister T Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 37 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Feck me, it'd be our luck to be 1-0 up in injury time, when suddenly: At least it would be first hibs couldn't claim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Captain Slog said: Daniel, there are pictures of the russians with thermobaric missile launchers at the border. and if he lets rip with them how will we react? He, Putin, has laid his cards on the table. Will he, deep down, think using them will benefit him? He could have the mind set of a suicide bomber! He is dying so he doesn’t give a sh!t about anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I remember watching a 4 part documentary interview with him (sky Atlantic I think) and it was chilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Slog Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: and if he lets rip with them how will we react? He, Putin, has laid his cards on the table. Will he, deep down, think using them will benefit him? He could have the mind set of a suicide bomber! He is dying so he doesn’t give a sh!t about anyone else. In his name, pray it isn't so brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 39 minutes ago, Victorian said: Not really. When it's largely guerilla warfare then it's not a conventional war. Depends on your definition. By most definitions a conventional war is one not involving nuclear weapons. But describing the Vietnamese war as a guerilla war is in any event simplistic. The greatest military power in the world was beaten fair and square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, Tennant's 6's said: True, but i don't buy that all this is happening just because he's the latest bad guy maniac. It's got to be much more nuanced than that. As much as he seems like an arrogant prick, he's not stupid. They must see NATO (US) expansion to their doorstep as an existential threat, why else would they go and do this with all the risks attached. Oh I totally agree with you. He’s not at all stupid. They must see the expansion as a threat but I’m not convinced that’s his reason to invade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 24 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Fair point. First, because Putin is not daft, and secondly because this isn't about him, it's about Russia. People shouldn't think for a second that Russia's strategic calculations would change if Putin were to drop dead in the morning. Correct. This not all about Putin. It is about Russia and the west's response to Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union. And in fact since the end of WW2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 One of the failures of NATO is the veto. There was a vote against Russia but Russia vetoed it. Toothless or what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 9 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: One of the failures of NATO is the veto. There was a vote against Russia but Russia vetoed it. Toothless or what. UN not NATO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 53 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Fair point. First, because Putin is not daft, and secondly because this isn't about him, it's about Russia. People shouldn't think for a second that Russia's strategic calculations would change if Putin were to drop dead in the morning. Well there goes one of my main hopes. 😟 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Some posters seem to be actually supporting Putin's justification - "Its your fault that I'm invading Ukraine." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 27 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said: One of the failures of NATO is the veto. There was a vote against Russia but Russia vetoed it. Toothless or what. Good research mate. 👍 😄🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 15 minutes ago, Lone Striker said: Some posters seem to be actually supporting Putin's justification - "Its your fault that I'm invading Ukraine." They're probably just hatkickers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Tennant's 6's said: Did they? I thought that the japanese had pretty much surrendered to the US but Truman etc wanted to test them out, as each bomb was slightly different, and wanted to see the effects and to send a message to the Soviets, even though they were supposedly still their allies at that time.. If I recall the Japanese leadership were ready to negotiate a cease fire. The problem was a lot of the army which was spread all over particularly the Pacific on various islands were determined to live by the rule of fighting to the death, The atom bombs were dropped on civilian targets to create disbelief as to what had happened and have the militants surrender. For many many years after the war individual and some groups of Japanese soldiers were found on remote islands still prepared to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 20 minutes ago, graygo said: Well there goes one of my main hopes. 😟 On the news today I saw anti war protests in Russia, to the best of my memory I have never seen that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 11 minutes ago, Sharpie said: On the news today I saw anti war protests in Russia, to the best of my memory I have never seen that before. Lots of protests in numerous Russian cities, some interesting stuff on Facebook (which I posted earlier) from prominent families critical of the war . Putin doesn't seem to have persuaded Russia to follow his conscripts into battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Very loud near the capital now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Russians dressed as Civilians attacking soldiers, Russia telling Ukranian soldiers they'll kill their families if they don't surrender, bombing nurseries and other civilian targets. Vlad needs taken out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsandonlyHearts Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 11 minutes ago, Steak said: Russians dressed as Civilians attacking soldiers, Russia telling Ukranian soldiers they'll kill their families if they don't surrender, bombing nurseries and other civilian targets. Vlad needs taken out Can only be done from within Russia. A peoples revolution of sorts (history) or the military. The military one is the scary one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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