Debut 4 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, John Findlay said: I wonder if the sailors on the Russian convoys think this? Aye. Some showing themselves up a little. It wasn’t just us that had a lend lease agreement with the United States. British convoys ran the gauntlet taking goods and equipment to Russia too. EVERYONE played their part in whatever aspect they were concerned in. Edited February 16, 2022 by Debut 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, John Findlay said: I wonder if the sailors on the Russian convoys think this? Russian Navy celebrate Victory Day alonsgside the other armed forces - I guess like the French navy. 13 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: I’ll make this simple for you. Russia is a country run by *****, full of ***** and which needs bombed to the ****ing ground. You couldn't make it more simple. Even a child would understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, John Findlay said: I wonder if the sailors on the Russian convoys think this? Quite. My Great Uncle was a sailor in those convoys. He was shipwrecked 4 times and survived the war, living a further 50 years afterwards. His experiences left him unable to work ever again and messed his head horribly. A bona fide war hero, making great personal sacrifice. His funeral in 1995 was attended by 4 people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 4 hours ago, ri Alban said: I think you'll find Russia saved Europe in WW2. As posted else where , the Arctic convoys saved Russia. I know because my dad in law has a medal from the Russkies for his service on the convoys and he told me so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said: Quite. My Great Uncle was a sailor in those convoys. He was shipwrecked 4 times and survived the war, living a further 50 years afterwards. His experiences left him unable to work ever again and messed his head horribly. A bona fide war hero, making great personal sacrifice. His funeral in 1995 was attended by 4 people. Back in 70s I knew an old guy who had a terrible speech impediment who constantly shook uncontrollably. I found out later it was caused by his times on the convoys. He was a stoker on the ship and said he didn't worry about dying in the freezing water if they got hit as he'd never get out of the boiler room to get into the sea anyway. He thought he'd die on every trip. It destroyed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said: Quite. My Great Uncle was a sailor in those convoys. He was shipwrecked 4 times and survived the war, living a further 50 years afterwards. His experiences left him unable to work ever again and messed his head horribly. A bona fide war hero, making great personal sacrifice. His funeral in 1995 was attended by 4 people. I found your post quite moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 31 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: I’ll make this simple for you. Russia is a country run by *****, full of ***** and which needs bombed to the ****ing ground. A post we* can all get behind. *We - those of us who actually believe in freedom & democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 29 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: I found your post quite moving. Thanks. He was one of many thousands who literally stared death in the face every time they went to work and it destroyed many of their lives, even those lucky enough to survive . I have plenty of shit days at work, but nothing on the scale of what he and his peers dealt with. They had no choice. Current generations have no clue or what suffering our forebears went through to protect our freedoms and I include myself in that though I certainly appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 35 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said: A post we* can all get behind. *We - those of us who actually believe in freedom & democracy. I certainly despise their leader and have zero kind wishes for him but I’m sure there are plenty of decent everyday Russians who deserve a lot better than they’re getting. Hopefully there will be some sort of revolution there and they’ll get freedom and democracy, Sadly I think we might have a long wait. It’s run by cleptocratic gangsters and bullies approved by Mr Putin and no doubt he has an anointed successor in his own image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 9 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said: Thanks. He was one of many thousands who literally stared death in the face every time they went to work and it destroyed many of their lives, even those lucky enough to survive . I have plenty of shit days at work, but nothing on the scale of what he and his peers dealt with. They had no choice. Current generations have no clue or what suffering our forebears went through to protect our freedoms and I include myself in that though I certainly appreciate it. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 5 hours ago, ri Alban said: He borrowed money and everyone in the UK were bribed with said borrowed money to stay home. But I forget, no one works up here and pay no tax, so why then would he need to stump up £10b. Pity we couldn't borrow, maybe folk would have been paid a bit better. Shneeps can borrow. 450m a year but it can't be spent on more bribes and wean freebies and has to be paid back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Debut 4 said: Aye. Some showing themselves up a little. It wasn’t just us that had a lend lease agreement with the United States. British convoys ran the gauntlet taking goods and equipment to Russia too. EVERYONE played their part in whatever aspect they were concerned in. You are quite correct. The USA made a lot of money from their policy of isolation and were able to watch other countries seriously damage themselves in the full knowledge that they would be in poll position after the war. I didn't know our convoys to the USSR were on a lend lease basis and wikipaedia agrees but if you know different i'd like to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said: A post we* can all get behind. *We - those of us who actually believe in freedom & democracy. Because nothing demonstrates freedom & democarcy more, than bombing countries to ***k . Edited February 17, 2022 by felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said: I certainly despise their leader and have zero kind wishes for him but I’m sure there are plenty of decent everyday Russians who deserve a lot better than they’re getting. Hopefully there will be some sort of revolution there and they’ll get freedom and democracy, Sadly I think we might have a long wait. It’s run by cleptocratic gangsters and bullies approved by Mr Putin and no doubt he has an anointed successor in his own image. I agree in the spirit of complete ruin for Putin and his regime and his poodle oligarchs hoarding his wealth in London., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, felix said: Because nothing demonstrates freedom & democarcy more, than bombing countries to ***k . I agree in the spirit of complete ruin for Putin and his regime and his poodle oligarchs hoarding his wealth in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 On 15/02/2022 at 13:08, NANOJAMBO said: The reasons (or not) for their entry don't change the simple facts : they saved Europe twice. Their military might does indeed stem directly from their massive involvement in WWII prior to which they barely had an army worthy of the name. I have no idea why you have posted the amount of inconsequential history you have and I'm not getting side tracked into a debate about it. Some of the "Russia good/ America-Ukraine bad" stuff on here is embarrassing. The inconsequential history as you describe it was put in to counter you incorrect statement which was "And America's might is a consequence of WWII - prior to that the US was literally nothing militarily. " . I see you have now changed that to "barely had an army worthy of the name." It was also there to show that America had plans to expand their military and their empire well before WW2 including actually building airfields on the Canadian border so they could attack the British empire and steal our assets. WW2 meant they could change their plans, sit back and profit by supplying desperate countries like Britain and the Soviet Union. The idea that they saved europe through an act of altruism is nonsense. They were never going to declare war on Germany and only did so because Germany was allied to Japan. Japan only made the preemptive strike against America because America had been building up its fleet in the Pacific and was a direct threat to their interests in the same way they were planning to be a threat to British interests. You shouldn't be embarrassed on my behalf. If you have a point to make you should make it. I'm always glad to learn new stuff. You should be embarrassed though about your desire to see Russia bombed. If we are to be grateful to the USA for the part they played in saving Europe then we should probably acknowledge that without the Soviet Union there would have been no opportunity for the USA to do the saving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, SwindonJambo said: Quite. My Great Uncle was a sailor in those convoys. He was shipwrecked 4 times and survived the war, living a further 50 years afterwards. His experiences left him unable to work ever again and messed his head horribly. A bona fide war hero, making great personal sacrifice. His funeral in 1995 was attended by 4 people. My cousin was on them and the Malta convoys. He ended up life as a drunken thief. No PTSD in his days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 My concern and it is being confirmed on some news stations here is that as soon as Russia acts on Ukraine, China will move on Taiwan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, coconut doug said: The inconsequential history as you describe it was put in to counter you incorrect statement which was "And America's might is a consequence of WWII - prior to that the US was literally nothing militarily. " . I see you have now changed that to "barely had an army worthy of the name." It was also there to show that America had plans to expand their military and their empire well before WW2 including actually building airfields on the Canadian border so they could attack the British empire and steal our assets. WW2 meant they could change their plans, sit back and profit by supplying desperate countries like Britain and the Soviet Union. The idea that they saved europe through an act of altruism is nonsense. They were never going to declare war on Germany and only did so because Germany was allied to Japan. Japan only made the preemptive strike against America because America had been building up its fleet in the Pacific and was a direct threat to their interests in the same way they were planning to be a threat to British interests. You shouldn't be embarrassed on my behalf. If you have a point to make you should make it. I'm always glad to learn new stuff. You should be embarrassed though about your desire to see Russia bombed. If we are to be grateful to the USA for the part they played in saving Europe then we should probably acknowledge that without the Soviet Union there would have been no opportunity for the USA to do the saving. Another long post, so here we go. Firstly, I have twice since qualified my response to "bombing Russia". Your highlighted sections are not mutually exclusive. Little of what you post has any relevance to my statement that USA saved Europe twice (I don't expect everyone to agree with that and there's been some decent debate on that) nor the context in which I posted it. But well done anway. I never claimed any "altruism" by the US so your mention of it is nonsense. I have no issues in ackowledging Russian sacrifices in them playing their part in saving Europe*. But then context is everything - and again, you've missed it. We weren't talking about Russian sacrifices or denying their part , we were talking about the interference of US/EU in Ukranian affairs claimed by some on here and how it justifies Russian antagonism (to put it mildly) while efectively portraying the US (and EU) as the bad guys . Like I say, context. *So long as we understand US & Russia weren't quite "saving Europe" in quite the same way. One wanted to liberate it , the other to colonise it. But enough on that. I'll confine any further replies strictly in a Ukranian context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 13 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said: I agree in the spirit of complete ruin for Putin and his regime and his poodle oligarchs hoarding his wealth in London. You agree with wiping countries out, because they hoard dodgy wealth in London, and influence UK politics . We'd be bombing the Chinese, Saudis & Israelis on that basis, long before the Ruskies felt our wrath and before you cry whataboutery ..you started it by insisting there's Nazis in Russia as well 🙂 .... forgetting to apply the same logic when saying Americans saved Europe . Go on... admit it. The Russians did too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Lighter Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 20 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said: As posted else where , the Arctic convoys saved Russia. I know because my dad in law has a medal from the Russkies for his service on the convoys and he told me so. My granda' was a recipient of the medal. He was invited to a ceremony in London back in the early 90's when Gorby was on a state visit and had it pinned on his chest by him. Latterly he was a resident in Whiteford House on the High Street where I'd visit him whilst home on leave, he had it hung on the wall of his digs with a certificate. I remember when visiting him he would always introduce me to his pals, " this is my grandson and he's in the RAF " like he was really proud of me. That was so humbling, I can't begin to imagine what hell on earth those men went through in comparison to my unremarkable stint in the air force. He was sunk three times, one of which I think was in the Med when his ship struck a British mine that broke from it's mooring. He never spoke of his experiences, except when at family get togethers, he and my brothers dad in law, who crewed pilot boats on the Thames during the blitz, would sit off in a corner and blether away swapping stories, I'd try and listen in from a distance because the minute anyone pulled up a chair they would immediately change the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Breakaway Russian-supporting regions of Donetsk and Luhansk being evacuated of civilians. Russian propaganda claiming a large explosion in central Donetsk. Here comes the false flag(!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Russia Today's propaganda is disgusting . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert. Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 44 minutes ago, Cade said: Breakaway Russian-supporting regions of Donetsk and Luhansk being evacuated of civilians. Russian propaganda claiming a large explosion in central Donetsk. Here comes the false flag(!) Must've got the idea from America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Best solution would be a neutral Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 35 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said: Russia Today's propaganda is disgusting . Chto yest', to yest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Disgusting 'false flags' from Russia. We knew this would be coming but still horrible to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Homme said: Disgusting 'false flags' from Russia. We knew this would be coming but still horrible to see. Yup. They are itching for any excuse to justify an invasion. Amatuers really. All they needed was a dodgy dossier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: Best solution would be a neutral Ukraine. Russia would just invade them without a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Cruyff said: Russia would just invade them without a fight. NATO should have kept their end of the deal. Image what rUk and America would be like, if an independent Scotland allowed Russia to put their military on its land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Donbass separatist leader/goon video released today was recorded 2 days ago . Christopher Miller of Buzzfeed has some good info and links on twitter . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 16 minutes ago, ri Alban said: NATO should have kept their end of the deal. Image what rUk and America would be like, if an independent Scotland allowed Russia to put their military on its land. What deal was that? Ukraine is a free sovereign democratic state, it can choose whatever it wants to do. Clearly it does not want to be part of the former Soviet Union or a Russian satellite state. If it wants to be part of Nato then it should be allowed without threats from a tinpot dictator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 NATO is open to anyone who wants to join. That's a central tenet of the alliance. And plenty of nations have joined it. Marking any one nation as "not allowed to ask to join" undermines the whole thing. It's not NATO's fault that Russia has no friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambomjm74 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: NATO should have kept their end of the deal. Image what rUk and America would be like, if an independent Scotland allowed Russia to put their military on its land. What is rUK, could you please explain. Are you making a suggestion that an Independent Scotland should align with Russia ahead of aligning with U.K. and America… sorry but please could you explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 minute ago, jambomjm74 said: What is rUK, could you please explain. Are you making a suggestion that an Independent Scotland should align with Russia ahead of aligning with U.K. and America… sorry but please could you explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 hours ago, ri Alban said: Best solution would be a neutral Ukraine. Agreed. Feels somewhat unpalatable, but also pragmatic. The alternative is this in perpetuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambomjm74 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Sorry. I don’t understand what rUK is ? Is it a typo? Equally I am very confused about an independent Scotland aligning with Russia ahead of U.K. and USA. Does that help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 minute ago, jambomjm74 said: Sorry. I don’t understand what rUK is ? Is it a typo? Equally I am very confused about an independent Scotland aligning with Russia ahead of U.K. and USA. Does that help. Have you had a humour bypass? Google is your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 59 minutes ago, Cruyff said: What deal was that? Ukraine is a free sovereign democratic state, it can choose whatever it wants to do. Clearly it does not want to be part of the former Soviet Union or a Russian satellite state. If it wants to be part of Nato then it should be allowed without threats from a tinpot dictator. This in spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambomjm74 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Just now, The Real Maroonblood said: Have you had a humour bypass? Google is your friend. I’m not sure if a joke that requires an explanation is really a joke… I think you are saying, your buddy was being humorous. I was rather worried by his choice of ally and took it as an anti U.K. American post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said: Russia Today's propaganda is disgusting . Any company that still pays to advertise on that station need to be pulling their revenue out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 False flag number 2: Gas pipe explosion in Luhansk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 31 minutes ago, Homme said: False flag number 2: Gas pipe explosion in Luhansk. They're also using this to evacuate their people from the Ukraine to Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Putin truly is a bitter delusional evil count. The sooner he's emptied the better. The World would be a better place without him. According to Joe Biden's news conference, just ended, the US are convinced Putin has made the decision to invade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 PETER HITCHENS: Granny gets her gun from bunch of shameless neo-Nazis https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10530885/PETER-HITCHENS-Granny-gets-gun-bunch-shameless-neo-Nazis.html?ito=native_share_article-masthead Hitchens gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 https://asiatimes.com/2022/02/is-the-ukraine-crisis-just-another-us-charade/ Excellent article by the former US ambassador to the USSR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/02/ukraine-where-to-find-the-truth-in-enormous-detail/ And another really excellent article about what is going on in Ukraine, this time from Craig Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 On 18/02/2022 at 16:42, Cade said: Breakaway Russian-supporting regions of Donetsk and Luhansk being evacuated of civilians. Russian propaganda claiming a large explosion in central Donetsk. Here comes the false flag(!) Cade do you not think we (the west) are playing the false flag thing. News reports of self defence for women. War correspondent walking through fields fully kitted up. I'm of an age that remembers the Kuwait babies . I trust our lot as much as theirs. And I'm of an age that read 1984. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 33 minutes ago, Ked said: Cade do you not think we (the west) are playing the false flag thing. News reports of self defence for women. War correspondent walking through fields fully kitted up. I'm of an age that remembers the Kuwait babies . I trust our lot as much as theirs. And I'm of an age that read 1984. (the west) playing a false flag ; they wouldn't do that. Cade reckons NATO's open to anyone who wants to join ; don't hold out for insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo_jim2001 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Replay of the Cuban missile crisis for modern times,I can see Russia's point and also the Baltic States views not wanting reabsorption into another cccp mk2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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