Inflation

[Cade]

Folk in the public sector have had to endure below inflation pay rises for about, oooh...13 years now.

There is no more fat left to trim.

Services are failing due to the pay being so shite that nobody will do the work.

[Captain Sausage]

27 minutes ago, tightrope said:

So by your logic everyone should get a below inflation pay rise every year? A real terms pay cut until you can afford nothing.......cue the Tory balancing act rhetoric. Wage increases have not caused the current inflationary crisis, as nobody I know was getting one higher than inflation. Certainly not in the public sector. This has been the case for ten years. Wages have not contributed to the current issue. Fact. And yes it is a fact cause I wrote fact.

You are saying that real terms increasing of spending power does not result in demand increasing and therefore prices rising? Am I getting that straight?

 

Because that is just simply completely wrong. 

[tightrope]

2 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

You are saying that real terms increasing of spending power does not result in demand increasing and therefore prices rising? Am I getting that straight?

 

Because that is just simply completely wrong. 

You are saying there was no demand from the same population for anything in the last ten years, but now everyone has went spending crazy so inflation has went up. We would normally have enough of everything for everyone. However overheads are making shit expensive, not people buying stuff. The public's wage increases do not increase inflation.

[tightrope]

4 minutes ago, tightrope said:

You are saying there was no demand from the same population for anything in the last ten years, but now everyone has went spending crazy so inflation has went up. We would normally have enough of everything for everyone. However overheads are making shit expensive, not people buying stuff. The public's wage increases do not increase inflation.

Fro Google, may be true...may not

 

The correlation between public sector wage increases and inflation is negligible and not statistically significant (r = 0.04). This means that public sector pay is unrelated to inflation.21 Feb 2023

[Hansel]

13 hours ago, Cade said:

Folk in the public sector have had to endure below inflation pay rises for about, oooh...13 years now.

There is no more fat left to trim.

Services are failing due to the pay being so shite that nobody will do the work.

In the NHS lots of my nursing colleagues have left to join agencies where they can come back and work on the same ward but make 2 or 3 times more per hour, so because of the shortages we've had to rely more and more on agency staff who don't know the ward very well.

 

We end up spending so much on agency staff that you have to wonder if it'd be cheaper to just pay regular staff a better rate of pay in the 1st place and they can provide a better quality of care.

 

Obviously we've had a pay increase recently so perhaps that might help a little, but will it be enough?

Edited April 28, 2023 by Hansel

[The Real Maroonblood]

44 minutes ago, Hansel said:

In the NHS lots of my nursing colleagues have left to join agencies where they can come back and work on the same ward but make 2 or 3 times more per hour, so because of the shortages we've had to rely more and more on agency staff who don't know the ward very well.

 

We end up spending so much on agency staff that you have to wonder if it'd be cheaper to just pay regular staff a better rate of pay in the 1st place and they can provide a better quality of care.

 

Obviously we've had a pay increase recently so perhaps that might help a little, but will it be enough?

Pay a decent wage is too simple it seems.
What a farce.

Economic madness.

[kila]

1 hour ago, Hansel said:

In the NHS lots of my nursing colleagues have left to join agencies where they can come back and work on the same ward but make 2 or 3 times more per hour, so because of the shortages we've had to rely more and more on agency staff who don't know the ward very well.

 

We end up spending so much on agency staff that you have to wonder if it'd be cheaper to just pay regular staff a better rate of pay in the 1st place and they can provide a better quality of care.

 

Obviously we've had a pay increase recently so perhaps that might help a little, but will it be enough?

 

Agency workers are just a way to slowly privatise the NHS. What a sorry state our public services are becoming from the last decade or so of Conservative governments.

 

[BlueRiver]

1 hour ago, Hansel said:

In the NHS lots of my nursing colleagues have left to join agencies where they can come back and work on the same ward but make 2 or 3 times more per hour, so because of the shortages we've had to rely more and more on agency staff who don't know the ward very well.

 

We end up spending so much on agency staff that you have to wonder if it'd be cheaper to just pay regular staff a better rate of pay in the 1st place and they can provide a better quality of care.

 

Obviously we've had a pay increase recently so perhaps that might help a little, but will it be enough?

 

I think a lot of the time the wage costs for agency staff outstrip that of full time staff but I think the "savings" come from all the other bits and pieces you don't have to stump up for like holidays, pensions and sick leave etc. 

 

Personally think it's nonsense myself and you'd be better off with a well-treated, happy permanent workforce in the long run even if it does cost a bit more. 

 

 

 

 

[Greedy Jambo]

 

[doctor jambo]

On 27/04/2023 at 19:06, Captain Sausage said:

You are saying that real terms increasing of spending power does not result in demand increasing and therefore prices rising? Am I getting that straight?

 

Because that is just simply completely wrong. 

This inflation has nothing to do with pay.

nothing at all

itbis a lie

[periodictabledancer]

On 28/04/2023 at 08:18, Hansel said:

In the NHS lots of my nursing colleagues have left to join agencies where they can come back and work on the same ward but make 2 or 3 times more per hour, so because of the shortages we've had to rely more and more on agency staff who don't know the ward very well.

 

We end up spending so much on agency staff that you have to wonder if it'd be cheaper to just pay regular staff a better rate of pay in the 1st place and they can provide a better quality of care.

 

Obviously we've had a pay increase recently so perhaps that might help a little, but will it be enough?

NHS pension contributions are massive costs for the govt. Even though it's not as good as it used to be , pensions for nurses and many other public sector workers are much higher compared to the private sector where an employer MIGHT match contributions up to 6 or 7% , compared to my job where govt pays 19% of salary into a fund.

Agency workers are much  worse off. 

[Diadora Van Basten]

On 27/04/2023 at 09:27, Cade said:

 

The Government could also regulate rents. Both business and household. Rents are increasing way ahead of inflation in many cases. Businesses are going bust, households are being evicted.

Stop the blatant profiteering and prices will be kept in check.

But this lot of wankers won't do that because they're hardline free-market anarcho-capitalism extremists.

The Scottish Government already are regulating rents the Greens brought in a ban on rent rises overnight in about August for the Private and Social sector. From

1 April the social sector ban got lifted whilst the Private sector rents were capped at 3%. There was also a ban on enforcing evictions.

 

So far the policy has been popular with those in long term tenancies. But very unpopular with highly geared landlords that have seen their mortgage payments rise by 300-400% due to interest rate rises and no opportunity to pass on these costs.

 

For new tenancies in Edinburgh rents have risen by 13% year on year. 
 

So it’s good new if you are in an existing tenancy but if you have to move then it’s very expensive.

[Shooter McGavin]

On 28/04/2023 at 09:35, kila said:

 

Agency workers are just a way to slowly privatise the NHS. What a sorry state our public services are becoming from the last decade or so of Conservative governments.

 

Yep, similar was in discussion with rail workers too I believe.

 

We’re the 5th biggest economy in the world, and we try to do everything on the cheap. Do things on the cheap, and that’s exactly what you’ll get.

 

£21,000,000,000 lost in fraud,

£15,000,000,000 on unusable PPE,

£30,000,000,000 vanished after the mini-budget,

£100,000,000,000 billion per year on lost output due to Brexit,

£40,000,000,000 per year in lost tax revenue due to Brexit.

 

And yet this government have got some people actually believing we don’t have the money to pay people proper wages…

 

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Shooter McGavin

[ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ]

1 hour ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Yep, similar was in discussion with rail workers too I believe.

 

We’re the 5th biggest economy in the world, and we try to do everything on the cheap. Do things on the cheap, and that’s exactly what you’ll get.

 

£21,000,000,000 lost in fraud,

£15,000,000,000 on unusable PPE,

£30,000,000,000 vanished after the mini-budget,

£100,000,000,000 billion per year on lost output due to Brexit,

£40,000,000,000 per year in lost tax revenue due to Brexit.

 

And yet this government have got some people actually believing we don’t have the money to pay people proper wages…

 

 

 

The welfare of the actual population is ridiculously far down the list of this government's priorities. 

[rab_hmfc]

Is anyone's electricity only households costing them a fortune? We stay in a 3 bed mid terrance and are using on average 24kwh per day, or in money terms between £8-£14. Recently changed the old electric radiators to high retention storage heaters and had solar panels installed. Still not making a difference and the heaters aren't burning all day- between 7.30am and 10am and 5-8pm for the bairns. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by rab_hmfc

[Nucky Thompson]

I see the Skyline restaurant has put their prices up again.

 

2 course lunch went from £14.95 to £19.95 and is up again to £21.95, all within a few months.

So about a 45% rise since the end of last year.

 

That's me out. I won't be encouraging their greedflation 

[ri Alban]

51 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I see the Skyline restaurant has put their prices up again.

 

2 course lunch went from £14.95 to £19.95 and is up again to £21.95, all within a few months.

So about a 45% rise since the end of last year.

 

That's me out. I won't be encouraging their greedflation 

I was looking at the prices on the shelves, a fecking piss take. And takeaways are expensive anaw.  

 

 

I just bought 4 pint cans of Strongbow. Nearly 7 quid. They were about a fiver 18 months ago.

[Nucky Thompson]

57 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I was looking at the prices on the shelves, a fecking piss take. And takeaways are expensive anaw.  

 

 

I just bought 4 pint cans of Strongbow. Nearly 7 quid. They were about a fiver 18 months ago.

Shop around bud.

You can still get a large pizza for £9.99 at Dominos

Tesco were doing a 24 case of coke zero last week for a fiver. It's never been as cheap as that as far as I can remember

 

I saw on the news this morning that food prices had peaked and will be dropping soon

 

You're still going to get twats using inflation as an excuse to bump up their prices though

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Shop around bud.

You can still get a large pizza for £9.99 at Dominos

Tesco were doing a 24 case of coke zero last week for a fiver. It's never been as cheap as that as far as I can remember

 

I saw on the news this morning that food prices had peaked and will be dropping soon

 

You're still going to get twats using inflation as an excuse to bump up their prices though

👍

[ArcticJambo]

Back of a fag packets maths but I'd say just about everything I regularly buy (at Aldi/Asda daily shops) has gone up 33-50% minimum in the past 6 months.

[manaliveits105]

Are the restaurants who have bumped their prices up going to reduce them and reprint menus if prices come down - no chance ! - went to a Chinese restaurant for a sit in meal the other day - not in city centre and couldn’t believe how much they were charging for a curry almost £20 not including rice 

won’t be back 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Are the restaurants who have bumped their prices up going to reduce them and reprint menus if prices come down - no chance ! - went to a Chinese restaurant for a sit in meal the other day - not in city centre and couldn’t believe how much they were charging for a curry almost £20 not including rice 

won’t be back 

Was it Wagyu Steak curry? Bloody obscene what some places are gouging out of people.

[jamb0_1874]

An extremely bumpy road ahead I fear, as inflation is here to stay...

 

https://www.cityam.com/bank-of-england-to-hoist-interest-rates-to-5-75-per-cent-as-experts-warn-uk-inflation-is-out-of-control/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/13/uk-wage-growth-jumps-making-interest-rate-rise-more-likely

 

[doctor jambo]

7 minutes ago, jamb0_1874 said:

An extremely bumpy road ahead I fear, as inflation is here to stay...

 

https://www.cityam.com/bank-of-england-to-hoist-interest-rates-to-5-75-per-cent-as-experts-warn-uk-inflation-is-out-of-control/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/13/uk-wage-growth-jumps-making-interest-rate-rise-more-likely

 

BofE blundered .

people have asked for a pay rise because they are utterly skint.

inflation happened before any rise .

We (the public sector ) had our wages crushed after 2008- still ongoing.

but low interest made this less of a thing.

our mortgages were cheap so we got on.

Why should the public sector be used as a tool to suppress inflation when we were already used to sustain austerity ?

why accept 4.5% when Scotgov raises income tax that wipes it out, then mortgage etc kicks off and your suddenly many hundreds per year down?

there is not enough rioting in this country 

[il Duce McTarkin]

5 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

there is not enough rioting in this country 

 

Been saying this for years.

[WorldChampions1902]

27 minutes ago, jamb0_1874 said:

An extremely bumpy road ahead I fear, as inflation is here to stay...

 

https://www.cityam.com/bank-of-england-to-hoist-interest-rates-to-5-75-per-cent-as-experts-warn-uk-inflation-is-out-of-control/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/13/uk-wage-growth-jumps-making-interest-rate-rise-more-likely

 

The most damning sentence in that Cityam article is, “When accounting for the consumer price index, real incomes have fallen every month since November 2021, among the longest declines on record”.

[Diadora Van Basten]

I think raising interest rates each month and expecting annual inflation to fall is illogical.

 

The Bank of England are going to bankrupt the country.

 

Now it looks like we are heading for a wage price spiral that is not surprising given how low unemployment is.

 

I take the example of my favourites bottle of wine going up from £7 to £7.70 in September 22 an increase of 10%. So today inflation on that bottle of wine is 10% and on October 23 the inflation on the bottle of wine will be 0%. These will be the rates of inflation on that bottle of wine whether the Bank of England make interest rates 1% or 100%.

[The Mighty Thor]

A pre-election recession. 

 

Just what we need.

 

 

[ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

A pre-election recession. 

 

Just what we need.

 

 

 

It's some state, and meanwhile Johnson's big problem is lnot getting enough honours for his mates! They don't care about our lives, and there are still plenty who'll vote for them.

[The Real Maroonblood]

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's some state, and meanwhile Johnson's big problem is lnot getting enough honours for his mates! They don't care about our lives, and there are still plenty who'll vote for them.

That certainly will.

Weird behaviour.

[Costanza]

Something seems to be wrong with capitalism whereby the answer to food, energy and supply chain inflation is to look to effectively plunge the economy into recession and make people redundant and also argue that people should get poorer by accepting less than inflation pay rises.

 

Been reading a few articles with some economists arguing for targeted price controls rather than the blunt tool of interest rate rises to tackle the current situation.

It's extremely likely we are going to get increasingly more frequent supply chain and food price shocks with the impact of climate change so just only having a tool of interest rate rises doesn't seem that reassuring?

 

Coupled tonight with Labour not guaranteeing universal child care, it must be absolutely sh1te to be a young couple looking to get on the pricing ladder and start a family.

 

 

 

 

[WorldChampions1902]

7 hours ago, Costanza said:

Something seems to be wrong with capitalism whereby the answer to food, energy and supply chain inflation is to look to effectively plunge the economy into recession and make people redundant and also argue that people should get poorer by accepting less than inflation pay rises.

 

Been reading a few articles with some economists arguing for targeted price controls rather than the blunt tool of interest rate rises to tackle the current situation.

It's extremely likely we are going to get increasingly more frequent supply chain and food price shocks with the impact of climate change so just only having a tool of interest rate rises doesn't seem that reassuring?

 

Coupled tonight with Labour not guaranteeing universal child care, it must be absolutely sh1te to be a young couple looking to get on the pricing ladder and start a family.

 

 

 

 

To be fair to the Tories, they have said that people should get either a better paid or a second job. Simples!
 

After Aldi made their 3rd wage increase in a year to £13 an hour, people should just retrain to be junior Doctors and get an extra £1 an hour more. 
 

Broken Britain.

[doctor jambo]

18 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

To be fair to the Tories, they have said that people should get either a better paid or a second job. Simples!
 

After Aldi made their 3rd wage increase in a year to £13 an hour, people should just retrain to be junior Doctors and get an extra £1 an hour more. 
 

Broken Britain.

Our prime minister , when chancellor, failed to fix the countries debt interest rates when they were almost zero .

Had he done that, when inflation took off, he could have wiped out 10% of the countries debt without doing anything at all.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

New 2 year fixed rate mortgage offers are now coming out at over 6%. 

 

The blunt instrument of rate rises isn't even touching the sides of real inflation.

 

The Government and the BoE have lost control.

[Dazo]

27 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

New 2 year fixed rate mortgage offers are now coming out at over 6%. 

 

The blunt instrument of rate rises isn't even touching the sides of real inflation.

 

The Government and the BoE have lost control.

we’ve been spoilt with ridiculously low rates for too long but I pity anyone coming out of a previous deal just now. 

[kila]

7 minutes ago, Dazo said:

we’ve been spoilt with ridiculously low rates for too long but I pity anyone coming out of a previous deal just now. 

 

Ridiculously low rates but excessively high house prices. Now we've got high everything! Wouldn't surprise me if interest rates hit 8% with still no impact on inflation.

 

[Diadora Van Basten]

I was watching Question Time and there was a question about Mortgage payments and you could see the concern in the audience that this issue is causing.

 

I have a base rate tracker and it has gone up 213% and is likely to rise to above 250% before interest rates peak.

 

It’s a massive amount to pay and to be honest I am quite comfortable with high inflation as it brings my borrowing costs down.

[Nucky Thompson]

20 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Ridiculously low rates but excessively high house prices. Now we've got high everything! Wouldn't surprise me if interest rates hit 8% with still no impact on inflation.

 

I wouldn't bet against a crash in the housing market

Edited June 16, 2023 by Nucky Thompson

[Diadora Van Basten]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I wouldn't bet against a crash in the housing market

Agreed about a month ago you could get a fixed rate mortgage at about 4.5% now it’s closer to 6%.

[ri Alban]

Trying to put us in a recession.

[Diadora Van Basten]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Trying to put us in a recession.

It’s kind of how tackling inflation works.
 

Businesses have less money to spend employing people due to higher interest rates so unemployment goes up and as unemployment goes up inflation goes down. 
 

Just now both US and UK have low unemployment so the central banks will continue to raise interest rates until they do.

[The Mighty Thor]

48 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

It’s kind of how tackling inflation works.
 

Businesses have less money to spend employing people due to higher interest rates so unemployment goes up and as unemployment goes up inflation goes down. 
 

Just now both US and UK have low unemployment so the central banks will continue to raise interest rates until they do.

Traditionally that's how it works.

 

Inflation is not being driven to the greater extent by the factors that normally drive inflation.

 

Food Inflation is powering our inflation bubble just now. Hikimg up interest rates is not going to touch it, unless the plan is to limit demand and the government/BoE are trying to starve us to death?

[ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ]

I remember when Liz Truss was asked if she had a mortgage, she laughed and went "no"

 

They live in a parallel universe, to them people are poor because they're shit people. Never forget the phrase Magic Money Tree is used to take the piss out of you right in front of your face -it refers to Modern Monetary Theory, which says a government can spend what it wants if it produces it's own fiat currency without having to raise the money first from taxes, etc.

Basically, that there is a magic money tree when they want there to be, just not for the things you lot want!

 

"We'd love to feed children but there's no Magic Money Tree <patronising smirk>"

[periodictabledancer]

3 hours ago, kila said:

 

Ridiculously low rates but excessively high house prices. Now we've got high everything! Wouldn't surprise me if interest rates hit 8% with still no impact on inflation.

 

I was watching BBC news yesterday - interest rate rises will take a year to work through.

Some grim times ahead for the average mortgage payers.

My niece is already paying £8k pa more than a year ago and it's still rising. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

We need more tories like David Ames.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

It’s kind of how tackling inflation works.
 

Businesses have less money to spend employing people due to higher interest rates so unemployment goes up and as unemployment goes up inflation goes down. 
 

Just now both US and UK have low unemployment so the central banks will continue to raise interest rates until they do.

Yeah, but there's things they can do . No need to put up interest rates. They're actually trying to feck us all up. It's easy to blow the country when you've millions in the bank.

[OBE]

3 hours ago, Dazo said:

we’ve been spoilt with ridiculously low rates for too long but I pity anyone coming out of a previous deal just now. 

 

Clever yins would've been over paying in the spoilt period right?

[Diadora Van Basten]

29 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

I was watching BBC news yesterday - interest rate rises will take a year to work through.

Some grim times ahead for the average mortgage payers.

My niece is already paying £8k pa more than a year ago and it's still rising. 

I have sympathy for your niece and people in the same boat if this had happened when I was younger I would have gone bust.

 

My situation isn’t great but I know there are people a lot worse off than me just now.

[joondalupjambo]

20 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

Clever yins would've been over paying in the spoilt period right?

Correct but suspect that since debt was so cheap the two lease cars, the holidays abroad and the latest model IPhones for many would have been a better option.  

 

Us older ones remember interest rates as high as 16% and when that dropped, and kept dropping and our wages improved slightly, or we moved to better jobs loads of folk thought right start over paying now and keep over paying even if it is only a little just in case the rates go sky-high again.  Your mortgage was your biggest debt and you wanted rid of it as fast as you could.  Then you bought the fancy stuff 😜 nice things, when your financial situation had really improved.

 

Unfortunately the latest generations have never been through that and with low interest rates being around for so long now perhaps a different approach, and or view has been taken around debt.

 

I also remember clearly our solicitor, and our lenders all saying read para XXX very, very closely before you sign for the mortgage.  It was along the lines of be careful, be very careful because once you sign up for this mortgage your debt can go up if circumstances change.  A lesson never forgotten.

Edited June 16, 2023 by joondalupjambo

[doctor jambo]

24 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

Clever yins would've been over paying in the spoilt period right?

The question is which spoilt period?

wages have been eroded since 2008.

Constantly eroded for 15 years.

We didn’t mind as much because low interest rates masked that.

Now it’s wage erosion , higher interest rates and Jeremy hunt telling us to suck it up .

And the Bof E deliberately crashing the economy is only going to make things worse .

I have been worse off in real terms every year for the last 15 years.

promotions and working more ( the Tory dream) have covered some to this point, but there has been no spoilt period in 15 years