Inflation

[Diadora Van Basten]

3 hours ago, tightrope said:

Still doesn't explain how exploiting people with mortgages stops inflation rising. It's a Tory lie. They like to keep us poor and in check.

There was a small business owner on Question Time last week, she said that because she was paying higher interest rates then there was no money to pay herself and this is how interest rate rises work.

 

Business has less money to pay staff so can’t pay staff wage rises or replace staff as they leave causing unemployment. 
 

The increase in unemployment reduces inflationary pressures and stops the wage price spiral.

[The Mighty Thor]

6 hours ago, Cade said:

Huw Pill, the Bank of England’s chief economist;

 

“So somehow in the UK, someone needs to accept that they’re worse off and stop trying to maintain their real spending power by bidding up prices, whether higher wages or passing the energy costs through onto customers.

And what we’re facing now is that reluctance to accept that, yes, we’re all worse off, and we all have to take our share.

Instead, people try and pass that cost on to one of our compatriots, and saying ‘we’ll be alright, but they will have to take our share too’.”

“That pass the parcel game that’s going on here….that game is generating inflation, and that part of inflation can persist.”

 

So there we have it. The Bank of England thinks that the UK should just accept that it's poorer now and shut up.

 

This guy is advising the central bank on economic policy. 

 

What a time to be alive. 

[tightrope]

7 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

There was a small business owner on Question Time last week, she said that because she was paying higher interest rates then there was no money to pay herself and this is how interest rate rises work.

 

Business has less money to pay staff so can’t pay staff wage rises or replace staff as they leave causing unemployment. 
 

The increase in unemployment reduces inflationary pressures and stops the wage price spiral.

But it really doesn't, they just pass it on through price increases. Hence causing inflation. It's all down to fuel prices, not people spending or wage increases. 

[ri Alban]

People still telling porkies that putting nurses, Doctors, and bin peoples wages up causes inflation.  

 

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

28 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

People still telling porkies that putting nurses, Doctors, and bin peoples wages up causes inflation.  

 

 

 

 

Food inflation is absolutely mental, it hammers the poorest too.

[ri Alban]

27 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Food inflation is absolutely mental, it hammers the poorest too.

It's a disgrace what the supermarkets are getting away with. 

 

But these folk telling us that public sector pay would directly cause inflation. It might put up taxes, but how exactly would we need to pay more from our take home pay, for our kids to get their education or NHS treatment.  As for the mythical overspill not many, if any public sector workers get paid more than on the private sector. 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by ri Alban

[Diadora Van Basten]

1 hour ago, tightrope said:

But it really doesn't, they just pass it on through price increases. Hence causing inflation. It's all down to fuel prices, not people spending or wage increases. 

Oil prices are pretty much back to where they were pre invasion of Ukraine and countries such as Spain have much lower inflation than the UK.

 

Its low unemployment that is the main driver of UK inflation.

[Captain Sausage]

34 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

It's a disgrace what the supermarkets are getting away with. 

 

But these folk telling us that public sector pay would directly cause inflation. It might put up taxes, but how exactly would we need to pay more from our take home pay, for our kids to get their education or NHS treatment.  As for the mythical overspill not many, if any public sector workers get paid more than on the private sector. 

 

 

Inflation at the moment is an absolute disgrace. The government and BoE need to be held to account. And the B word needs to be front and centre of that discussion. 
 

But it’s not exactly rocket science that paying people more money is going to result in inflation continuing to remain higher. More money in the system = more demand = higher prices. 
 

I’ve been told to be grateful I still have a job, and payrise hasn’t even entered the conversation for me or my wife (both private sector). Why should the public sector be getting these big pay rises when it’s the private sector who pays for it. 

[Cade]

Corporate pay, profits and dividends are all soaring.

Funny, that.

 

It's almost as if big business is profiteering and raising their prices way over and above what is reasonable because they know that the current junta will do nothing to stop them because they're extremist free-market anarcho-capitalist ideologues.

 

[Japan Jambo]

On 28/03/2023 at 11:36, BlueRiver said:

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/food-inflation?continent=europe

 

Does anyone know if this is up to date? Paints a bit of a grim picture across the continent. 

 

Doing this all wrong Blue River, you can't be showing facts that show this problem isn't unique to the UK and all the fault of the Toaries.

 

Almost chocked on my last croissant in Paris, restaurant/cafe prices there have also gone nuts, just like here in London.

[jim747]

On 14/04/2023 at 16:53, joondalupjambo said:

Bar coding on the bottles?

Same for Denmark system where Sweden and them are only a bridge apart.  Swedes come into Denmark with their bottles and same brand available in Denmark.  Danes process their bottles at return point and get credit or cash.  Swedes present their bottles bought in Sweden, nada.  At least that was how it was explained in BBC Scotland last week.

Yip, The barcodes in Sweden start with a no.7 and I think the UK is a no.5, the codes don't work in other countries. I assume the barcodes between Scotland and England would have to be seperated to new numbers to stop cross border deposits.

[Japan Jambo]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

People still telling porkies that putting nurses, Doctors, and bin peoples wages up causes inflation.  

 

 

 

 

 

too bad the treasurer position at the SNP has been filed. You don't fancy an auditing gig by any chance? 😁

 

btw it's not porkies, it's basic economics. Whether or not it's fair is a different matter.

[BlueRiver]

56 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Doing this all wrong Blue River, you can't be showing facts that show this problem isn't unique to the UK and all the fault of the Toaries.

 

Almost chocked on my last croissant in Paris, restaurant/cafe prices there have also gone nuts, just like here in London.

 

Yeah I got that when a couple posters were all over me for just asking about it. Clearly meant I was a Tory apologist.

 

Lots of places are feeling inflationary pressure and I was just curious how we stacked up. 

 

I do notice some had started posting European comparisons when it showed the UK as the hardest hit. At least they're showing them though I guess. 

 

[Shooter McGavin]

“People need to accept they’re poor”

 

That’s what 13 years of Tory governments and Brexit will do to you I’m afraid.

 

Kind of goes without saying really.

[WorldChampions1902]

33 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

“People need to accept they’re poor”

 

That’s what 13 years of Tory governments and Brexit will do to you I’m afraid.

 

Kind of goes without saying really.

But still, many will continue to vote for them. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Shooter McGavin said:

“People need to accept they’re poor”

 

That’s what 13 years of Tory governments and Brexit will do to you I’m afraid.

 

Kind of goes without saying really.

Our living standards have fallen behind our European peers over the last 15 years or so. That trend has accelerated since June 2016 and yet still the dafties will want to compare tomato ketchup prices with Germany or Italy as if it's some justification for the mismanagement of the economy since Osborne implemented the Tory dogma of austerity in 2010.

 

'aye but' is all they've got left. 

 

 

[tightrope]

10 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Oil prices are pretty much back to where they were pre invasion of Ukraine and countries such as Spain have much lower inflation than the UK.

 

Its low unemployment that is the main driver of UK inflation.

Oil prices are back to where they were, but petrol and diesel and utilities are not. I fail to see how unemployed citizens effect the local stores 300percent utilities increase?

[That thing you do]

In Mexico, weve had inflation (about 9% atm) but we also have the peso strengthening vs the usd and ex china manufacturing jobs being diverted here as companies want to avoid China now.

 

Mexico is the big winner in many ways from Chinas distrust.

 

The economy is doing very well considering, tourism numbers are back over 28 million annually and Ive seen my income rise by 20%.

 

House Prices are moving as leaving Mexico City and coming here is growing in popularity. 

 

Living here has its challenges (and positives) but weve gained massively from doing it. Might return to Mexico as a holiday home only in 2 or 3 years but for now, its a warm port in a storm that we are saving a really good amount in every year.

 

I had a visit home a couple of weeks ago and I was surprised by prices. Car hire £800 for 2 weeks when that used to cover a month. Mental.

 

 

 

 

 

[BlueRiver]

Imagine folk wanting to compare inflation rates across different countries in a thread about inflation 🤣

 

 

[OBE]

Could've swore I heard a trumpet there...🎺

[Shooter McGavin]

4 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

But still, many will continue to vote for them. 

 

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Our living standards have fallen behind our European peers over the last 15 years or so. That trend has accelerated since June 2016 and yet still the dafties will want to compare tomato ketchup prices with Germany or Italy as if it's some justification for the mismanagement of the economy since Osborne implemented the Tory dogma of austerity in 2010.

 

'aye but' is all they've got left. 

 

 

People in this country are, unfortunately, thick as mince.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, OBE said:

Could've swore I heard a trumpet there...🎺

 

I think I found it - I rooted it oot (works better as a spoken joke)

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

 

People in this country are, unfortunately, thick as mince.

I don't think they are thick as mince. It's their ideology. Some folk just are.

 

19 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

too bad the treasurer position at the SNP has been filed. You don't fancy an auditing gig by any chance? 😁

 

btw it's not porkies, it's basic economics. Whether or not it's fair is a different matter.

It is porkies.

[ri Alban]

https://www.ascl.org.uk/News/Blog/February-2023/It’s-time-to-end-the-myth-that-public-sector-pay-i#:~:text=Common sense economics and detailed,%2C in turn%2C fuel inflation.

[ri Alban]

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/

[ri Alban]

 

[ri Alban]

Just your typical right-wing Tory filth spouting their usual anti state worker propaganda to keep us all in our boxes. 

And the people always believe them. Strange. 

Putting nurses wages up ain't causing any inflation, but you keep telling yourself that, if it warms the cockles of your neo Nazi hearts. The first casualties of the Nazis were the socialists.

[Captain Sausage]

38 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

https://www.ascl.org.uk/News/Blog/February-2023/It’s-time-to-end-the-myth-that-public-sector-pay-i#:~:text=Common sense economics and detailed,%2C in turn%2C fuel inflation.

What a bizarre blog. Yes, technically paying no public sector workers won’t ‘directly’ drive up inflation - but no one is arguing that. And his ‘spillover’ logic is completely flawed. Even if public sector workers are underpaid compared with their private sector comparators, the simple fact is that you are putting more money into the hands of the spending general public. It’s completely disingenuous to claim that only private sector pay rises fuel inflation. 
 

Pay 1/3 of the country 10% more, and 30% of the population now have 10% more in their pocket to spend.
 

More money in the economy means higher demand means higher prices means continued inflation.

 

It is economics 101.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Captain Sausage

[tightrope]

7 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

What a bizarre blog. Yes, technically paying no public sector workers won’t ‘directly’ drive up inflation - but no one is arguing that. And his ‘spillover’ logic is completely flawed. Even if public sector workers are underpaid compared with their private sector comparators, the simple fact is that you are putting more money into the hands of the spending general public. It’s completely disingenuous to claim that only private sector pay rises fuel inflation. 
 

Pay 1/3 of the country 10% more, and 30% of the population now have 10% more in their pocket to spend.
 

More money in the economy means higher demand means higher prices means continued inflation.

 

It is economics 101.

Not at the moment, your argument fails. Food bank use all time high, highest utility bills in Europe, everyone skint. Loads of everything that no one is buying, but inflation still rocketing. We are in a unique position where fuel prices have caused this. Our government are letting them rip us off. Your economics are Tory economics 101.

[Captain Sausage]

6 minutes ago, tightrope said:

Not at the moment, your argument fails. Food bank use all time high, highest utility bills in Europe, everyone skint. Loads of everything that no one is buying, but inflation still rocketing. We are in a unique position where fuel prices have caused this. Our government are letting them rip us off. Your economics are Tory economics 101.

 

So more money in the system doesn’t equate to more inflation?

 

Public sector weekly wage is around 10% lower than private. And makes up around 17% of the total workforce. 
 

How does my argument fail? It’s just logic. And that logic is aligned with just about every single expert on the topic. 
 

If fuel prices were the sole source of this inflation, then consumer service inflation wouldn’t be the highest of any G20 nation too. Wage growth is the reason for this one. 

[The Mighty Thor]

8 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Wage growth is the reason for this one. 

Gross economic mismanagement and following an ideology that melts when exposes to reality is the reason for this one. 

 

The UKs spectacularly high fuel prices most certainly feed through the system to drive food inflation. There's absolutely no doubt of that. 

[Captain Sausage]

33 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Gross economic mismanagement and following an ideology that melts when exposes to reality is the reason for this one. 

 

The UKs spectacularly high fuel prices most certainly feed through the system to drive food inflation. There's absolutely no doubt of that. 

I’m not arguing that either of your points are key drivers of our current inflation. I’d go as far as to say I think certain people ought to be on trial for their gross incompetence that has led us to where we are today. 
 

I also think (posted in a different thread) that one of the very few opportunities of Brexit is to undercut the US and EU on green funding and build a booming Net Zero industry which de-links energy from gas prices in the medium term. 
 

I’m just stating that wage rises contribute to further inflation. 
 

I get the idealogical viewpoint that we should protect low-middle earners by raising wages, but stating we can do this without impacting inflation is simply a fallacy. 
 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Captain Sausage

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Captain Sausage said:

I’m not arguing that either of your points are key drivers of our current inflation. I’d go as far as to say I think certain people ought to be on trial for their gross incompetence that has led us to where we are today. 
 

I also think (posted in a different thread) that one of the very few opportunities of Brexit is to undercut the US and EU on green funding and build a booming Net Zero industry which de-links energy from gas prices in the medium term. 
 

I’m just stating that wage rises contribute to further inflation. 
 

I get the idealogical viewpoint that we should protect low-middle earners by raising wages, but stating we can do this without impacting inflation is simply a fallacy. 
 

 

I think where we are today started a long, long time ago with the decisions take on how we handled the energy resource we discovered under our feet.

 

Some of our peers saw this energy windfall as a way to bankroll their country for generations and we saw it as a way to fund our 'billy big baws' empirical ambitions on the world stage. Worked out brilliantly, right?

 

I think we get hung up on 'inflation' as the measure the government uses - CPI- and the narrow set of measurements that entails. It's far removed from the reality for your average punter, which are a central bank trying to control this 'inflation' by ramming up interest rates for no good reason which only exacerbates the issues your average punter is facing, energy companies acting like the cartel they really are and running rings around a toothless ombudsman and being supported by a weak as piss government who's ideology is of 'the markets sorting themselves out'. Add in food retailers and manufacturers ripping the absolute pish and et voila your nurses/posties/rail workers need pretty chunky pay rises just to stand still. Bear in mind UK wage growth has stagnated in real terms since the mid-2000s. 

 

Real inflation, that's inflation that impacts at the point of you putting your hand in your pocket is what's killing the UK and that **** at the Bank of England encapsulates beautifully why we're in the shit as a country. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

17 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I think where we are today started a long, long time ago with the decisions take on how we handled the energy resource we discovered under our feet.

 

Some of our peers saw this energy windfall as a way to bankroll their country for generations and we saw it as a way to fund our 'billy big baws' empirical ambitions on the world stage. Worked out brilliantly, right?

 

I think we get hung up on 'inflation' as the measure the government uses - CPI- and the narrow set of measurements that entails. It's far removed from the reality for your average punter, which are a central bank trying to control this 'inflation' by ramming up interest rates for no good reason which only exacerbates the issues your average punter is facing, energy companies acting like the cartel they really are and running rings around a toothless ombudsman and being supported by a weak as piss government who's ideology is of 'the markets sorting themselves out'. Add in food retailers and manufacturers ripping the absolute pish and et voila your nurses/posties/rail workers need pretty chunky pay rises just to stand still. Bear in mind UK wage growth has stagnated in real terms since the mid-2000s. 

 

Real inflation, that's inflation that impacts at the point of you putting your hand in your pocket is what's killing the UK and that **** at the Bank of England encapsulates beautifully why we're in the shit as a country. 

 

Not seen so many of your diatribes lately, Thor. Enforced sabbatical or just getting on with real life?

[periodictabledancer]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I think where we are today started a long, long time ago with the decisions take on how we handled the energy resource we discovered under our feet.

 

Some of our peers saw this energy windfall as a way to bankroll their country for generations and we saw it as a way to fund our 'billy big baws' empirical ambitions on the world stage. Worked out brilliantly, right?

 

I think we get hung up on 'inflation' as the measure the government uses - CPI- and the narrow set of measurements that entails. It's far removed from the reality for your average punter, which are a central bank trying to control this 'inflation' by ramming up interest rates for no good reason which only exacerbates the issues your average punter is facing, energy companies acting like the cartel they really are and running rings around a toothless ombudsman and being supported by a weak as piss government who's ideology is of 'the markets sorting themselves out'. Add in food retailers and manufacturers ripping the absolute pish and et voila your nurses/posties/rail workers need pretty chunky pay rises just to stand still. Bear in mind UK wage growth has stagnated in real terms since the mid-2000s. 

 

Real inflation, that's inflation that impacts at the point of you putting your hand in your pocket is what's killing the UK and that **** at the Bank of England encapsulates beautifully why we're in the shit as a country. 

I'll stay away from the opening part about energy but as someone who lived through the strike riven, crazy infaltion 70s & 80s  , I count my blessings I'm mortgage & kids free. The short sighted approach by the BofE in resorting to the usual control of simply raising interest rates (as was routinely done over past years) overlooked the fact that we were constantly being told this was a blip caused by the pandemic and then the war in Ukraine. Unlike the 70s & 80s when  soaring wage rises were causing spiralling inflation we have a low wage / "low" tax economy where millions are living on the breadline and have seen matters made worse simply because the BofE has no other tool at their disposal. The policy is literally to take money away from people whose wages have stagnated for two decades at a time that inflation has rocketed (no blame attached to said workers) while companies make record profits from rampant price hikes & profiteering. All the while the Tories are telling us to tighten our belts while my phone  bill for this year alone rocketed up 17% and someone at the BofE said publicly we need to get used to the fact we are poorer and will remain so. 

 

It's always workers who have to take the hit, not shareholders , not fat cat CEOs with mega incomes  linked to share prices. 

I was talking to the missus about this last night and if I was in my kids position I would definitely be considering emigrating from this tanking economy for which the long term outlook is desperately grim. 

Good luck to anyone who can get what they need/want. 

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

Not seen so many of your diatribes lately, Thor. Enforced sabbatical or just getting on with real life?

you cannae be a greeting faced **** all the time guv. 

 

Golf season 👍

[Boris]

3 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

What a bizarre blog. Yes, technically paying no public sector workers won’t ‘directly’ drive up inflation - but no one is arguing that. And his ‘spillover’ logic is completely flawed. Even if public sector workers are underpaid compared with their private sector comparators, the simple fact is that you are putting more money into the hands of the spending general public. It’s completely disingenuous to claim that only private sector pay rises fuel inflation. 
 

Pay 1/3 of the country 10% more, and 30% of the population now have 10% more in their pocket to spend.
 

More money in the economy means higher demand means higher prices means continued inflation.

 

It is economics 101.

 

You are missing the bit about the massive profits being generated by companies.  That is, imo, a bigger contributory factor to inflation than wage increases.

 

 

[Cade]

There is not "more money in the system".

In fact, there is much less money in the system.

Many, many billions of pounds are sitting in offshore accounts of the mega rich (big business, hedge funds, private individuals are all included in this bracket) and these accounts continue to grow year on year as the inequality gap continues to widen.

All those billions sitting on tropical islands is money not circulating in the system.

It's gone. Never to be seen again.

 

By some people's strange logic, you can only combat inflation by making everybody else so piss poor that they can't afford anything and prices will be forced to come down to prevent a total economic collapse.

 

OR, the Government could actually regulate the main drivers of this inflation (say, for instance, the big energy companies which are posting record profits, paying record dividends and record boardroom pay and openly ripping the piss) and put a meaningful cap on prices. Energy costs hit business and households alike.

The Government could also regulate rents. Both business and household. Rents are increasing way ahead of inflation in many cases. Businesses are going bust, households are being evicted.

Stop the blatant profiteering and prices will be kept in check.

But this lot of wankers won't do that because they're hardline free-market anarcho-capitalism extremists.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Cade

[il Duce McTarkin]

19 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

you cannae be a greeting faced **** all the time guv. 

 

Golf season 👍

 

You had the cheek to rib me for eating rabbit food and it turns out you're a golf w****r!

 

 

Hope the weather improves shortly. 👍

[WorldChampions1902]

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

You are missing the bit about the massive profits being generated by companies.  That is, imo, a bigger contributory factor to inflation than wage increases.

 

 

Pretty much every credible expert was saying about 18 months ago that “excessive profits” were the root cause of our high and increasing inflation rates. But naw, “it’s all down to greedy Public Sector workers and the Union Barons fault likesay”.

[The Mighty Thor]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

There is not "more money in the system".

In fact, there is much less money in the system.

Many, many billions of pounds are sitting in offshore accounts of the mega rich (big business, hedge funds, private individuals are all included in this bracket) and these accounts continue to grow year on year as the inequality gap continues to widen.

All those billions sitting on tropical islands is money not circulating in the system.

It's gone. Never to be seen again.

 

By some people's strange logic, you can only combat inflation by making everybody else so piss poor that they can't afford anything and prices will be forced to come down to prevent a total economic collapse.

 

OR, the Government could actually regulate the main drivers of this inflation (say, for instance, the big energy companies which are posting record profits, paying record dividends and record boardroom pay and openly ripping the piss) and put a meaningful cap on prices. Energy costs hit business and households alike.

The Government could also regulate rents. Both business and household. Rents are increasing way ahead of inflation in many cases. Businesses are going bust, households are being evicted.

Stop the blatant profiteering and prices will be kept in check.

But this lot of wankers won't do that because they're hardline free-market anarcho-capitalism extremists.

I'm actually of the mind that it's all part of an economic 'scorched earth' policy of the Tories as they know they're facing electoral oblivion so they're deliberately poisoning the well to feck it for everyone after they're out. 

 

****s

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, Dirk McTarkin said:

 

You had the cheek to rib me for eating rabbit food and it turns out you're a golf w****r!

 

 

Hope the weather improves shortly. 👍

got to take the cheap shots when they present themselves 😎

[il Duce McTarkin]

9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

got to take the cheap shots when they present themselves 😎

 

We need more cheap shots imo

[Boris]

15 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Pretty much every credible expert was saying about 18 months ago that “excessive profits” were the root cause of our high and increasing inflation rates. But naw, “it’s all down to greedy Public Sector workers and the Union Barons fault likesay”.

✊

[A_A wehatethehibs]

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/111314/what-causes-inflation-and-does-anyone-gain-it.asp 

 

Inflation skyrocketed after COVID lockdown effect and Putins war. Basically everything else is essentially irrelevant.

 

Anything politicians do or say should be viewed as the usual political football each trying to win their voters.

 

The political messages and spin, are not linked to the real causes of inflation nor is it linked to actually tackling it. Politicians are just trying to win specific groups of voters.

 

The messages both sides put out, whether its “greedy private profits caused inflation!” or “bloated public sector caused inflation!” I don’t understand how folk can’t see through it. Essentially each party just saying the usual ideological stuff. Neither message has anything to do with the actual causes of inflation, nor actual work of trying to firefight the inflationary crisis. 

 

[Cade]

Remember back in '97 when introducing a national minimum wage was going to cause hyper inflation and destroy the economy?

 

[That thing you do]

7 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

What a bizarre blog. Yes, technically paying no public sector workers won’t ‘directly’ drive up inflation - but no one is arguing that. And his ‘spillover’ logic is completely flawed. Even if public sector workers are underpaid compared with their private sector comparators, the simple fact is that you are putting more money into the hands of the spending general public. It’s completely disingenuous to claim that only private sector pay rises fuel inflation. 
 

Pay 1/3 of the country 10% more, and 30% of the population now have 10% more in their pocket to spend.
 

More money in the economy means higher demand means higher prices means continued inflation.

 

It is economics 101.

On public sector pay, unions have failed their members.

 

They only act after 10 years of wage stagnation and the country already has inflation and economic issues. They *should* have been walking out as they recently have after 5 years of it and before the country is in a complete crisis. Public sector pay wont affect inflation much in the grand scheme of things but it will affect it some as more demand comes into the economy, but in an eocnomic hard time, government can justify trying not to spend the money for a number of reasons. While the French are more militant than Id like us to be, they have the right idea. Strike much earlier on. Allowing people to get to the stage where theyve had no real terms increase for 10 years is a failure of the unions to act when they should have and an open door to government to play hard(er) ball with their demands.

 

Keep Calm and carry on mindset needs to be binned.

Edited April 27, 2023 by That thing you do

[WorldChampions1902]

30 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

On public sector pay, unions have failed their members.

 

They only act after 10 years of wage stagnation and the country already has inflation and economic issues. They *should* have been walking out as they recently have after 5 years of it and before the country is in a complete crisis. Public sector pay wont affect inflation much in the grand scheme of things but it will affect it some as more demand comes into the economy, but in an eocnomic hard time, government can justify trying not to spend the money for a number of reasons. While the French are more militant than Id like us to be, they have the right idea. Strike much earlier on. Allowing people to get to the stage where theyve had no real terms increase for 10 years is a failure of the unions to act when they should have and an open door to government to play hard(er) ball with their demands.

 

Keep Calm and carry on mindset needs to be binned.

I speak as a long-standing Union Rep whose members were formerly Public sector employees, but were TUPE’d to the Private Sector many years ago.

 

I take issue with your point that Unions have somehow failed their members. Not true in my experience. I have been involved in pay negotiations for many years and after protracted negotiations, each and every one of those years, the employers “best and final” offer was put to members. Every time, it was less than inflation, in spite of the company making mega profits each and every year. Every year, the ballot put to members was, “this is the best your reps can negotiate without a vote for industrial action”. Each and every time, the members voted to reluctantly accept, because the majority had no appetite for  industrial action which by the way, may not necessarily have required all out strike. Loads of other things can hurt the employer such as an overtime ban, but the answer was always “no” to industrial action and acceptance. After 13 years of below inflation pay awards, the compound affect was a minus 15% real terms pay cut. Then along came this recent bout of double digit inflation. And did those same members vote for industrial action ? No, of course not.

 

Some union members seem to think that after paying their union subs, it’s down to the Union to get them the pay rise they think they deserve. As the above clearly demonstrates, there is only so much the reps can do and then it’s up to the membership. If people want to act like sheep, then employers will continue to fleece them. If only our members voted for industrial action 14 years ago and continued to do so, each and every time a sub-inflation pay offer was tabled, the employer would eventually get the message, and cease such behaviour. Sadly, (for now at least), too many employees fail to grasp this fundamental. Much easier to blame the Union.

[Captain Sausage]

8 hours ago, Boris said:

 

You are missing the bit about the massive profits being generated by companies.  That is, imo, a bigger contributory factor to inflation than wage increases.

 

 

Don’t disagree. Was just pointing out that stating public pay rises don’t affect inflation is just not a true statement. 

[tightrope]

45 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Don’t disagree. Was just pointing out that stating public pay rises don’t affect inflation is just not a true statement. 

So by your logic everyone should get a below inflation pay rise every year? A real terms pay cut until you can afford nothing.......cue the Tory balancing act rhetoric. Wage increases have not caused the current inflationary crisis, as nobody I know was getting one higher than inflation. Certainly not in the public sector. This has been the case for ten years. Wages have not contributed to the current issue. Fact. And yes it is a fact cause I wrote fact.