Should Scotland be an independent country?

[Don Dan]

Regarding learning the local lingo. I am a frequent visitor to Tenerife and do my best to communicate in Spanish when I’m in cafes restaurants shops etc. if I communicate with my Spanish bank or lawyer I always Google translate my emails in saying that they have excellent English but I feel it’s the right thing to do. 
Most of the time the people serving you have excellent English and quite a few speak other languages other than Spanish and English. But I feel the locals appreciate my feeble attempts to string a Spanish sentence together. I do try though! My written English is pants though 🤪

Edited July 27, 2022 by Imaman

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Imaman said:

Regarding learning the local lingo. I am a frequent visitor to Tenerife and do my best to communicate in Spanish when I’m in cafes restaurants shops etc. if I communicate with my Spanish bank or lawyer I always Google translate my emails in saying that they have excellent English but I feel it’s the right thing to do. 
Most of the time the people serving you have excellent English and quite a few speak other languages other than Spanish and English. But I feel the locals appreciate my feeble attempts to string a Spanish sentence together. I do try though! My written English is pants though 🤪

I think it's appreciated whichever country you visit that if you try and speak their language. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Imaman said:

Regarding learning the local lingo. I am a frequent visitor to Tenerife and do my best to communicate in Spanish when I’m in cafes restaurants shops etc. if I communicate with my Spanish bank or lawyer I always Google translate my emails in saying that they have excellent English but I feel it’s the right thing to do. 
Most of the time the people serving you have excellent English and quite a few speak other languages other than Spanish and English. But I feel the locals appreciate my feeble attempts to string a Spanish sentence together. I do try though!🤪

Yes I feel it’s only a matter of politeness and respect to at least know some of the LaNguage of a chosen country you want to live it . Ideally you should really learn to speak it fully . My Spanish if awful but I do try. , however if in a French speaking country I can get by with not too bad communication but certainly not fluent . My Italian is very basic though and I get it confused with Spanish 😂

[manaliveits105]

I always make an effort in foreign places except Glasgow 

[Dazo]

7 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I think it's appreciated whichever country you visit that if you try and speak their language. 

Absolutely this. Doesn’t take much to learn a few pleasantries. Please and thank you etc goes a long way regardless of language. Unfortunately and much to my wife’s hilarity I also developed a accent when attempting such things. 

[periodictabledancer]

21 hours ago, Dazo said:

Why don’t the Scottish government ask the people of Scotland if they want one instead of trying to force one on us ? 
 

Simple enough to do and it need not involve England or Westminster in any way. 

Why do the people of Scotland make life so difficult for you. Why do they keep voting SNP (and the Greens now), why do they keep voting for non unionist parties , why do they continue to return overwhelming numbers of MPs and MSPs ?

 

Why is the demand for independence at nearly twice the number it was in 2014?

 

It's almost like they're sending you a message you just can't bear to hear. 

 

It's almost like you're manufacturing straw man arguments every week on here to deny the reality that's staring you in the face. 

[Boof]

10 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Absolutely this. Doesn’t take much to learn a few pleasantries. Please and thank you etc goes a long way regardless of language. Unfortunately and much to my wife’s hilarity I also developed a accent when attempting such things. 

 

 

 

[Dazo]

11 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Why do the people of Scotland make life so difficult for you. Why do they keep voting SNP (and the Greens now), why do they keep voting for non unionist parties , why do they continue to return overwhelming numbers of MPs and MSPs ?

 

Why is the demand for independence at nearly twice the number it was in 2014?

 

It's almost like they're sending you a message you just can't bear to hear. 

 

It's almost like you're manufacturing straw man arguments every week on here to deny the reality that's staring you in the face. 

Hope you didn’t spend a lot of time on that shite. 😂

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

 

 

That's the sort of scene I was thinking of.

[periodictabledancer]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Hope you didn’t spend a lot of time on that shite. 😂

Are you 12 ? Are you not embarrassed at posting stuff like this? 

Is this the limit of your "debating

 skills" ? 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

6 hours ago, Dazo said:

It’s not a wind up as such but if we have people especially the snp saying they speaking on behalf on the Scottish people saying we want a referendum I think that is false. I don’t believe the majority of Scotland want a referendum at this time. 

 

I've long been under the impression that manifestos and mandates were seen as a big deal in the UK.  When you have a ruling majority in the Scottish Parliament whose manifestos clearly had a new referendum, justified by the new material condition of Brexit (particularly after the 2014 No campaign was heavy on the safety of remaining in the EU), asking for some kind of referendum before another referendum is just being cute to no effect. It's transparently dilatory.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Led Tasso

[Irufushi]

41 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Are you 12 ? Are you not embarrassed at posting stuff like this? 

Is this the limit of your "debating

 skills" ? 

 

You need to calm yourself down pal. Coming across as a seething lunatic. 
 

wouldn’t be surprised to see the mods stepping in and having a wee word with you . 
 

play nice. 

[Unknown user]

19 minutes ago, Irufushi said:

You need to calm yourself down pal. Coming across as a seething lunatic. 
 

wouldn’t be surprised to see the mods stepping in and having a wee word with you . 
 

play nice. 

 

It can get frustrating dealing with a guy who wants a vote to decide if we have a referendum, but maintains that a single issue plebiscite definitely isn't a referendum.

 

Dazo's always probing for a reaction, we can hardly complain when he gets one.

[Dazo]

3 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I've long been under the impression that manifestos and mandates were seen as a big deal in the UK.  When you have a ruling majority in the Scottish Parliament whose manifestos clearly had a new referendum, justified by the new material condition of Brexit (particularly after the 2014 No campaign was heavy on the safety of remaining in the EU), asking for some kind of referendum before another referendum is just being cute to no effect. It's transparently dilatory.

Things change, also referendums on manifestos that are also mixed in with other issues plus the colour of rosette isn’t a clear show of hands imo. I don’t believe right now the Scottish people want a referendum, other things are the priority. A consensus amongst the Scottish people will show this, I don’t see the problem. 
 

You don’t agree, that’s okay. Just don’t tell me it’s what the people want or the snp speak on behalf of the Scottish people. 

[pablo]

5 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

Why do the people of Scotland make life so difficult for you. Why do they keep voting SNP (and the Greens now), why do they keep voting for non unionist parties , why do they continue to return overwhelming numbers of MPs and MSPs ?

 

Why is the demand for independence at nearly twice the number it was in 2014?

 

It's almost like they're sending you a message you just can't bear to hear. 

 

It's almost like you're manufacturing straw man arguments every week on here to deny the reality that's staring you in the face. 

 

 

As you were.........

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

Things change, also referendums on manifestos that are also mixed in with other issues plus the colour of rosette isn’t a clear show of hands imo. I don’t believe right now the Scottish people want a referendum, other things are the priority. A consensus amongst the Scottish people will show this, I don’t see the problem. 
 

You don’t agree, that’s okay. Just don’t tell me it’s what the people want or the snp speak on behalf of the Scottish people. 

 

I can't tell you what "the people" want, particularly since "the people" don't particularly agree. However, the point of an elected government is quite literally designating a set of parties and leaders to speak on behalf of those people. If during an election, two parties say, "we intend to have a referendum and will push for it," and those two parties are given a majority of seats, to deny that they have the standing to hold a referendum is effectively to deny the most fundamental premise of representative democracy. For the color of the rosette, the particular yellow of the SNP has never meant anything other than at the absolute minimum far more autonomy from the rest of the UK.

 

As to what you personally believe, that's fine, however it's neither what was expressed in the most recent election. Given that a potential independence question has varyingly polled either in positive territory or only a few points in the negative, it's fair to say that there is certainly no consensus among "the people" that they don't want a referendum at all (unless people somehow both would vote yes but don't want a referendum—you can unpack that one for me if you think tht's the case).

 

It's very clear you don't want a referendum and would vote no in it. Fine. I don't get a vote (nor should I). But you've effectively constructed an argument against representative democracy on your way to trying to make a case against potential independence. It is, at the very least, weird.

[Dazo]

25 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I can't tell you what "the people" want, particularly since "the people" don't particularly agree. However, the point of an elected government is quite literally designating a set of parties and leaders to speak on behalf of those people. If during an election, two parties say, "we intend to have a referendum and will push for it," and those two parties are given a majority of seats, to deny that they have the standing to hold a referendum is effectively to deny the most fundamental premise of representative democracy. For the color of the rosette, the particular yellow of the SNP has never meant anything other than at the absolute minimum far more autonomy from the rest of the UK.

 

As to what you personally believe, that's fine, however it's neither what was expressed in the most recent election. Given that a potential independence question has varyingly polled either in positive territory or only a few points in the negative, it's fair to say that there is certainly no consensus among "the people" that they don't want a referendum at all (unless people somehow both would vote yes but don't want a referendum—you can unpack that one for me if you think tht's the case).

 

It's very clear you don't want a referendum and would vote no in it. Fine. I don't get a vote (nor should I). But you've effectively constructed an argument against representative democracy on your way to trying to make a case against potential independence. It is, at the very least, weird.

Your last paragraph is wrong I do want one so all this shit can end. It’s ridiculous that our government is spending time on this rather than the coming economic disaster. 

I’ve “constructed” an argument against snp arseholes telling us what Scottish people want. 

[OTT]

22 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Your last paragraph is wrong I do want one so all this shit can end. It’s ridiculous that our government is spending time on this rather than the coming economic disaster. 

I’ve “constructed” an argument against snp arseholes telling us what Scottish people want. 

 

We do need one, I agree.

 

The longer democracy is denied the angrier both sides are likely to get and I don't want to see that. I'm also a little bored of the referendum chat, its crystal clear Scotland needs to be able to put this to bed and move on, one way or the other. Discourse needs to be able to move on with this genuinely having been settled. 

 

The irrefutable reality is that Scots were told clearly that the only way to protect EU membership was to vote no. Brexit was a huge material change in the future that was promised in 2014. I believe genuinely that but for Brexit the 2014 result would have been respected, however, its happened and no amount of insisting it would or wouldn't changes anything. The push for a 2nd referendum is fair and entirely reasonable. A referendum doesn't in itself mean Independence, just simply the opportunity to revist the question and allow the people to decide. Democracy isn't static and when so much of the winning sides promises turn out to be worthless, I think its worth revisiting the question. Had Brexit happened before 2014, its highly likely it would have changed the outcome of the vote. 

 

Scots deserve a chance to put this to bed, if they won't vote for Independence in the aftermath of Brexit, nothing will do it and it truly will be dead for a generation (if not longer). There isn't a come back for the Yes movement following defeat. If you cannot convince folk Independence is better than the 'extraordinary act of economic self harm' that Brexit was, coupled with the subsequent the following cost of living crisis, then thats it. 

[Dazo]

9 hours ago, OTT said:

 

We do need one, I agree.

 

The longer democracy is denied the angrier both sides are likely to get and I don't want to see that. I'm also a little bored of the referendum chat, its crystal clear Scotland needs to be able to put this to bed and move on, one way or the other. Discourse needs to be able to move on with this genuinely having been settled. 

 

The irrefutable reality is that Scots were told clearly that the only way to protect EU membership was to vote no. Brexit was a huge material change in the future that was promised in 2014. I believe genuinely that but for Brexit the 2014 result would have been respected, however, its happened and no amount of insisting it would or wouldn't changes anything. The push for a 2nd referendum is fair and entirely reasonable. A referendum doesn't in itself mean Independence, just simply the opportunity to revist the question and allow the people to decide. Democracy isn't static and when so much of the winning sides promises turn out to be worthless, I think its worth revisiting the question. Had Brexit happened before 2014, its highly likely it would have changed the outcome of the vote. 

 

Scots deserve a chance to put this to bed, if they won't vote for Independence in the aftermath of Brexit, nothing will do it and it truly will be dead for a generation (if not longer). There isn't a come back for the Yes movement following defeat. If you cannot convince folk Independence is better than the 'extraordinary act of economic self harm' that Brexit was, coupled with the subsequent the following cost of living crisis, then thats it. 

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying and like you I want this to be decided once and for all. The nationalists will never put this to bed though there will always be another reason to have another referendum until they win. 
 

They are basically the hibs of politics. Always thinking they are better and on the verge of something great. Reality is they are noisy, serial losers and bunch of scaffs. 

[manaliveits105]

11 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying and like you I want this to be decided once and for all. The nationalists will never put this to bed though there will always be another reason to have another referendum until they win. 
 

They are basically the hibs of politics. Always thinking they are better and on the verge of something great. Reality is they are noisy, serial losers and bunch of scaffs. 

Absolutely spot on 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying and like you I want this to be decided once and for all. The nationalists will never put this to bed though there will always be another reason to have another referendum until they win. 
 

They are basically the hibs of politics. Always thinking they are better and on the verge of something great. Reality is they are noisy, serial losers and bunch of scaffs. 

 

The reality is that they want an independent Scotland.

[Boab]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying and like you I want this to be decided once and for all. The nationalists will never put this to bed though there will always be another reason to have another referendum until they win. 
 

They are basically the hibs of politics. Always thinking they are better and on the verge of something great. Reality is they are noisy, serial losers and bunch of scaffs. 

I disagree slightly with the idea that the Nats will try for Indy continually. 
They may well do but at where we are now, if a No vote was delivered, it would be extremely difficult for them to secure a third vote. Maybe impossible in the near future.

I’ve said it all along, cede to a vote this time if the unionists are confident of victory. If it’s a No, most of us on here won’t see a third vote.

[OTT]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying and like you I want this to be decided once and for all. The nationalists will never put this to bed though there will always be another reason to have another referendum until they win. 
 

They are basically the hibs of politics. Always thinking they are better and on the verge of something great. Reality is they are noisy, serial losers and bunch of scaffs. 

Of course, I think I made the point that if Brexit can’t act as the catalyst to push independence over the line, then frankly nothing will and it will be back to the drawing board for probably decades. I’m a little bit worried Sturgeons gone off half cocked as well since defeat as others have pointed out would be catastrophic for the yes movement. There were discussions about Derek Mackay producing alternative GERS figures, but then he got outed for being quite noncey and heard nothing since. So dunno if Forbes binned it. 
 

Comparison to Hibs though, that’s low man. 😂

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, OTT said:

Of course, I think I made the point that if Brexit can’t act as the catalyst to push independence over the line, then frankly nothing will and it will be back to the drawing board for probably decades. I’m a little bit worried Sturgeons gone off half cocked as well since defeat as others have pointed out would be catastrophic for the yes movement. There were discussions about Derek Mackay producing alternative GERS figures, but then he got outed for being quite noncey and heard nothing since. So dunno if Forbes binned it. 
 

Comparison to Hibs though, that’s low man. 😂

If anything is Hibs these days it’s Britain ffs. Hibsing it at every turn. The tories are about to Hibs Liz Truss into power.
If that’s not peak hibsing it then feck knows what is  

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

I disagree slightly with the idea that the Nats will try for Indy continually. 
They may well do but at where we are now, if a No vote was delivered, it would be extremely difficult for them to secure a third vote. Maybe impossible in the near future.

I’ve said it all along, cede to a vote this time if the unionists are confident of victory. If it’s a No, most of us on here won’t see a third vote.

 

10 minutes ago, OTT said:

Of course, I think I made the point that if Brexit can’t act as the catalyst to push independence over the line, then frankly nothing will and it will be back to the drawing board for probably decades. I’m a little bit worried Sturgeons gone off half cocked as well since defeat as others have pointed out would be catastrophic for the yes movement. There were discussions about Derek Mackay producing alternative GERS figures, but then he got outed for being quite noncey and heard nothing since. So dunno if Forbes binned it. 
 

Comparison to Hibs though, that’s low man. 😂

I just can’t see it stopping but yeah if the state of the current government and brexit doesn’t get them over the line nothing will. That doesn’t mean they will stop trying though imo. 
 

I don’t know why they didn’t go for devo max, make a success of that then push for independence. For some reason nationalists can’t see that a successful SG would gain more support, imo before Smithee as an aneurysm. We seem to be stuck in a tail spin and of blaming and comparing everything to Westminster. Maybe it’s just an outlook in life and likely a Scottish thing but someone else being shite doesn’t make something else great. 
 

@OTT Yeah low blow to compare to hibs. 😂

 

But you seen those rallies ? Ffs it’s like they donate a pound to the cause for dress down day. 

[jack D and coke]

21 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 

But you seen those rallies ? Ffs it’s like they donate a pound to the cause for dress down day. 

Some of the people at any rally look like scaffy ***** but it’s a media thing to create an image. They do to it anyone or anything they want to discredit. Ed Milliband didn’t win an election because they kept printing a picture of him eating a bacon roll funny. 
People are so easily manipulated. 
Working class people start to hate other working class people because a union fights for good conditions for them basically because the media tells them to.
If it’s not train workers it’ll be the doctors and nurses next. Or firemen or teachers or whoever. I’ve got nae rights so you shouldn’t have either or something. Talk about a race to the bottom. 
Liz Truss and Raab etc all wrote a book that calls brits the biggest idlers and laziest people in Europe so you know our conditions are only going to get worse too and people are clinging on to it. 
The daily mail or express would have some brits happy to be shiteing in their own back gardens again cos “them was the good old days” when we won the war etc etc. 

Mental  
 

[jack D and coke]

Nadine Dorries “Britain hasn’t hosted an event like the commonwealth games since the London Olympics.”

👍🏼😂
 

[JudyJudyJudy]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-nearly-quit-politics-after-abuse-over-trans-criticism-says-joanna-cherry-cpcvvkgz3
 

interesting  comments about how the SNP operate 

[Don Dan]

Interesting!

 

 

A lawyer who has represented major banking and oil firms has joined a growing chorus of voices who warn that an independent Scotland would have to host nuclear weapons as the price of admission to Nato.

Stephen Phillips, a partner at the German law firm CMS, said Trident and Nato membership were “inextricably linked”.

Nicola Sturgeon has pledged to take Scotland into Nato while simultaneously moving nuclear submarines out of their base on the Clyde.

Phillips acknowledged Finland had refused to host nuclear weapons if its bid to join Nato were successful, but said a similar bid by Scotland would be complicated by the fact it already hosts a Nato arsenal patrolling the Atlantic.

Writing in The Herald, he said: “Trident is currently sited in a strategically important location in terms of global security and it would inevitably cause major disruption if it had to be moved elsewhere soon after independence.

“Any decisions on nuclear weapons would, of course, be a matter for an independent Scottish parliament where the political dynamic and the public view would determine the course of events. It’s interesting to note that current polling on this issue shows that a majority of Scots do not support the immediate removal of Trident.”

“Should Scotland vote for independence, the issues of Nato membership and Trident are likely to be inextricably linked.”

“While keen to expand membership, it is possible that Nato would seek some form of compromise over Trident as part of the terms in admitting an independent Scotland into the alliance.”

Phillips advises major firms on the implications of Scottish independence.

In May, Rear Admiral John Gower, a former assistant chief of defence staff and submarine commander, said an independent Scotland would face being shut out of Nato if it undermines Britain’s nuclear deterrent.

The Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) published a paper in March warning Scotland would be a high priority target for Russian strikes in a future war and independence would be “a gift” for Vladimir Putin.

It said an independent Scottish defence force could thrive within Nato if the SNP drops its opposition to nuclear weapons.

Dame Mariot Leslie, a former UK permanent representative to Nato, backed Scottish independence and said Nato would welcome the country.

Sturgeon reaffirmed her commitment to joining Nato in a speech in Washington in May.

She said: “I am firm in my view that — coupled with a strong relationship with the UK — membership of the EU and of Nato will be cornerstones of an independent Scotland’s security policy.”

Sturgeon said that she was “acutely aware of Scotland’s strategic position on the northern edge of Europe, close to the Arctic” given the increase in Russian submarine patrols in the North Atlantic.

“And so we are clearer than ever that membership of Nato would not only be vital to Scotland’s security — though it most definitely would be — it would also be the principal way in which an independent Scotland, in an interdependent world, would contribute to the collective security of our neighbours and allies,” she said.

The Scottish government said: “The safe and swift removal of Trident from Scottish waters will be negotiated with the UK government after a Yes vote. No action would be taken which would jeopardise the security of the United Kingdom or any other NATO ally.

“Nato membership for an independent Scotland would maintain the alliance’s territorial integrity in a key strategic area.The SNP has been also clear that an independent Scotland – as a member of the EU and NATO – will be active participants in the Euro-Atlantic security community, committed to ensuring the stability of our North Atlantic neighbourhood.

“As an aspiring member of NATO, a non-nuclear independent Scotland would be in good company among a clear majority of non-nuclear members of the Alliance – including new members Finland and Sweden, with Sweden’s opposition to hosting nuclear weapons forming an unequivocal part of their recent membership application.”

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Nadine Dorries “Britain hasn’t hosted an event like the commonwealth games since the London Olympics.”

👍🏼😂
 

She was probably unconscious, through drink, during the entirety of the Euros.

[manaliveits105]

Shameful 

 

Describing the latest drug death figures “heart-breaking”, Ross said: “These figures are a badge of shame for Nicola Sturgeon, who has presided over a huge escalation in Scotland’s drug-deaths epidemic during her time in office.”

“Scotland’s drug-deaths rate is not merely worse than that of any other European nation. It’s so off-the-scale bad, so uniquely awful, that the SNP Government have to accept their current approach isn’t working.”

Scottish Labour Drug Policy spokesperson Claire Baker said: “These utterly shameful figures show we are making nowhere near enough progress."

“Year after year we hear the same apologies and promises, but platitudes don’t save lives. We cannot call something a public health emergency if we don’t respond with emergency action.

“The SNP need to start acting with the urgency we have needed all along, and use every single power at their disposal to get people the help they need.”

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Alex Cole-Hamilton demanded the Scottish Government call in the expertise of the World Health Organisation to tackle the issue.

He highlighted how statistics will leave Scotland’s drug-related deaths at three and a half times the rate of anywhere else in Europe.

 

Sturgeon oot 

 

[jack D and coke]

43 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

She was probably unconscious, through drink, during the entirety of the Euros.

Or Glasgow’s commonwealth games too  

Even Johnson never mentioned glasgow today talking about how he hopes Birmingham will get the same lift as London got in 2012. 
Happened up here means they forget it even happened at all. 

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Or Glasgow’s commonwealth games too  

Even Johnson never mentioned glasgow today talking about how he hopes Birmingham will get the same lift as London got in 2012. 
Happened up here means they forget it even happened at all. 

 

I forgot all about Hampden being used. 😆

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I forgot all about Hampden being used. 😆

 

[OTT]

Thought this was worth emphasising again. Cross border trade unionists quite rightly point out is important to our economy, however EFTA membership could be achieved in as little as 3 months. Whereas full EU membership could take between 5 and 8 years. Post Independence we’d have a free trade deal with the rest of the UK and have many of the benefits of EU membership restored almost immediately. 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

Thought this was worth emphasising again. Cross border trade unionists quite rightly point out is important to our economy, however EFTA membership could be achieved in as little as 3 months. Whereas full EU membership could take between 5 and 8 years. Post Independence we’d have a free trade deal with the rest of the UK and have many of the benefits of EU membership restored almost immediately. 

 

A Norway style deal??

[OTT]

20 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

A Norway style deal??

Pretty much. Very achievable without the input of a far right Conservative party bowing to the machinations of brexiteers hell bent on closing our borders at all costs. 
 

It seems like a better deal which takes into consideration the practical implications of Independence. It may be that EFTA is the best way forward with building a strong relationship with Europe but maintaining a good trade relationship with England. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

45 minutes ago, OTT said:

Thought this was worth emphasising again. Cross border trade unionists quite rightly point out is important to our economy, however EFTA membership could be achieved in as little as 3 months. Whereas full EU membership could take between 5 and 8 years. Post Independence we’d have a free trade deal with the rest of the UK and have many of the benefits of EU membership restored almost immediately. 

Na don't fancy that much would allow too many Johnny Foreigners in 

[Don Dan]

Grim reading 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-drug-deaths-rose-record-24609357?utm_source=edinburgh_live_newsletter&utm_campaign=special_daily_newsletter2&utm_medium=email&pure360.trackingid=4109bdd2-863e-4cae-86a2-9c88acdd2fa2

 

 

Edinburgh drug deaths rose to record number last year as grim figures published

The number of people who died following drug overdoses in Edinburgh surpassed 100 for the first time ever in 2021.

The number of drug deaths recorded in Scotland is consistently ahead of any other European country.

Drug-related deaths rose by almost a fifth in Edinburgh last year as a slight drop was recorded across Scotland, new data has revealed. 

Annual figures released by National Records Scotland (NRS) for 2021 show there were 109 deaths as a result of drug misuse in the capital, up from 92 the year previous - the highest figure ever recorded in the city. 

And it means that in the last decade, drug deathshave more than doubled in Edinburgh from the 48 reported in 2011.

READ MORE: Edinburgh refuse workers 'launched food recycling bins' onto pavement

The 18.5 per cent rise locally last year is in contrast to a modest decline seen nationally, with nine fewer drug deaths across the country than the 1,339 reported in 2020.

However, last year still saw the second highest number of overdoses in Scotland, which remains the drug death capital of Europe.

Edinburgh had the lowest age-standardised drug misuse death rate of all Scottish cities with 18.3 per 100,000 of the population in the five years from 2017. Dundee suffered the highest number nationally with 45.2, followed by Glasgow with 44.4 and Inverclyde with 35.7.

Of the capital's 109 fatalities caused by narcotic misuse, the majority - 79 - were male with the remaining 30 female.

In most cases the cause was 'accidental poisoning' with this attributed to 98 deaths, whilst five came as a result of 'intentional self-poisoning', four by 'drug abuse' and two recorded as 'undetermined intent'.

 

Opiates such as heroin, methadone and codeine were linked to 96 of the drug deaths in Edinburgh, 42 were linked to cocaine use, four with alcohol and two with ecstasy. In some cases multiple substances found in the body can be attributed to a death.

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Imaman

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Would Prince William be pegged to be the future king of an independent Scotland?

[Unknown user]

52 minutes ago, OTT said:

Pretty much. Very achievable without the input of a far right Conservative party bowing to the machinations of brexiteers hell bent on closing our borders at all costs. 
 

It seems like a better deal which takes into consideration the practical implications of Independence. It may be that EFTA is the best way forward with building a strong relationship with Europe but maintaining a good trade relationship with England. 

Sounds good to me

[Mysterion]

3 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Would Prince William be pegged to be the future king of an independent Scotland?

[OTT]

7 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Would Prince William be pegged to be the future king of an independent Scotland?

There may be minor disagreement from Prince Andrew…. 

[Don Dan]

Just now, OTT said:

There may be minor disagreement from Prince Andrew…. 

Please don’t mention minors in the company of the honourable Prince you see him for sweat 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Would Prince William be pegged to be the future king of an independent Scotland?

I've only caught up on Prince William's proclivities on Twitter.

 

[manaliveits105]

3 hours ago, OTT said:

Thought this was worth emphasising again. Cross border trade unionists quite rightly point out is important to our economy, however EFTA membership could be achieved in as little as 3 months. Whereas full EU membership could take between 5 and 8 years. Post Independence we’d have a free trade deal with the rest of the UK and have many of the benefits of EU membership restored almost immediately. 

 after independence

[Jeffros Furios]

12 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

 after independence

Move along comrade 

[That thing you do]

On 27/07/2022 at 03:47, Dazo said:

To be fair to That thing you do it was more a humourless attempt at having a go at unionists rather than Benidorm. 

It was a humourless response to a humourless post about Nationalists, but yes it was an attempt to see how those tarring brushes get on when they are tarred.

 

Our survey says...not very well. Though a number of people who have engaged with me about Benidorm are excepted from that.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

15 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

15 hours ago, OTT said:

There may be minor disagreement from Prince Andrew…. 

 

14 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I've only caught up on Prince William's proclivities on Twitter.

 

He was pegged on to save the monarchy, too. 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

Shut down the shortbread senate