Should Scotland be an independent country?

[jack D and coke]

43 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Talking from personal family experience MT. Had all the opportunities you could ask for from a good upbringing but frankly can't be arsed.

 

Other youngsters I know do themselves proud. 

 

But we make it to easy for some to lounge about. 

 

No issues for those who are disadvantaged to get their fair share.

I knew plenty layabouts from my youth. I have seen people I knew from school bum around their whole lives and some are dead  to heroin and stuff over the years.
All under Labour and conservative govts. Labour had control of Scotland for half a century. Men in some parts of Scotland life expectancy was less than sub sahara countries. Labour thought it was theirs…

Now they’re found oot they try pin that on the snp. I seen that goon Neil Oliver blaming the snp for this. He’s on the verge of a breakdown I’m sure if it. Hilarious drivel he comes out with these days but I digress  

The young ones are layabouts and druggies now cos the SNP? You surely remember the aids epidemic in the 80’s in Edinburgh? Dundee was bad too. Who was running the place then? The world has changed massively since then I understand but still. 

My daughter, my niece and nephews  they’re all clever, have good and higher qualifications, good jobs and are workers. So are all their friends.
All work or at university etc.

You can only see what’s immediately around you I suppose but it’s better now Imo. 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by jack D and coke

[Ray Gin]

49 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Talking from personal family experience MT. Had all the opportunities you could ask for from a good upbringing but frankly can't be arsed.

 

Other youngsters I know do themselves proud. 

 

But we make it to easy for some to lounge about. 

 

No issues for those who are disadvantaged to get their fair share.

 

I blame the parents.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I knew plenty layabouts from my youth. I have seen people I knew from school bum around their whole lives and some are dead  to heroin and stuff over the years.
All under Labour and conservative govts. Labour had control of Scotland for half a century. Men in some parts of Scotland life expectancy was less than sub sahara countries. Labour thought it was theirs…

Now they’re found oot they try pin that on the snp. I seen that goon Neil Oliver blaming the snp for this. He’s on the verge of a breakdown I’m sure if it. Hilarious drivel he comes out with these days but I digress  

The young ones are layabouts and druggies now cos the SNP? You surely remember the aids epidemic in the 80’s in Edinburgh? Dundee was bad too. Who was running the place then? The world has changed massively since then I understand but still. 

My daughter, my niece and nephews  they’re all clever, have good and higher qualifications, good jobs and are workers. So are all their friends.
All work or at university etc.

You can only see what’s immediately around you I suppose but it’s better now Imo. 

 

You only see who’s in your “ reference “ group As such so can be blind or ignorant of how others live . There are definitely people ripping the system re benefits but also multi national companies avoiding tax ! It’s swings and roundabouts .i know a people who have been on the dole for years and have no inclination to work . I feel sorry for them as they are not really living a full life . Work opens up so many opportunities , not just the financial . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I blame the parents.

I know your trying to be sardonic but it’s mostly true. An inconvenient truth . 

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

You only see who’s in your “ reference “ group As such so can be blind or ignorant of how others live . There are definitely people ripping the system re benefits but also multi national companies avoiding tax ! It’s swings and roundabouts .i know a people who have been on the dole for years and have no inclination to work . I feel sorry for them as they are not really living a full life . Work opens up so many opportunities , not just the financial . 

Absolutely it does.

Lockdown taught me that I could never be without my work. I’d be dead by now if it had went on much longer. 
I don’t care if someone wants to live that life either it’s abject misery imo. They’re unemployable anyway.
I don’t think it’s that easy either like the way they make out. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Absolutely it does.

Lockdown taught me that I could never be without my work. I’d be dead by now if it had went on much longer. 
I don’t care if someone wants to live that life either it’s abject misery imo. They’re unemployable anyway.
I don’t think it’s that easy either like the way they make out. 

 

Yes i just find it sad for them . I’m not angry and demanding they should work or be forced too . Like I said they are missing out on a hell of a lot 

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes i just find it sad for them . I’m not angry and demanding they should work or be forced too . Like I said they are missing out on a hell of a lot 

Yeah 100% mate. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 hours ago, jambo89 said:

Who had no choice, Sturgeon or the LA? I don't know where you are getting that the legal route is blocked from? The LA said she wasn't sure so has taken it to the Supreme Court and they have yet to rule? Unless I missed their ruling of course.

I don't see why anyone would get bent out of shape about this development? Surely clarifying the legal position ASAP would be a good thing whatever side of the fence you sit on?  

[Ked]

5 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I think you misread the central point. It came from the discussion about the drug culture which I think was largely brought about by Thatcher's policies creating a lack of hope in some communities. 

I suggested some long term measures to bring some hope back including incentivised modern apprenticeships. One or two of the No camp jumped in about young people feeling entitled. Entirely not the point at all. 

I was a bit merry last night buddy.

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

Just now, Ked said:

I was a bit merry last night buddy.

 

And nowt wrong with that 👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

I was a bit merry last night buddy.

 

Ona Tuesday night ! How decadent 😂

[Unknown user]

17 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Believe me, Im with you

 

A lot of young folk are part of a new 'entitled to' generation

Some frankly can't be arsed getting off their arses. I'm related to a few. 

 

"They don't WANT to work!"

 

Damn straight many don't want to work. I worked in asda in Grangemouth a couple of years ago, a bunch of my former colleagues are having to turn to food banks because they get their wages wrong so often. Maximum hours most can get is 20 a week (less obligation to part time staff) and there's not much else going on the area if you can't work in the chemical plant. I have friends who work, and have to claim benefits, and it's miserable for them, but they don't drive and aren't skilled. Work poverty's a disgrace.

 

No one cares about the lowest rung, if you're going to be 20 quid a week better off working but exhausted and can't keep up the housework is it worth seeing less of the kids?

 

It's an upper class ideal, the rewards of work, to keep us all thinking we need it to fulfil our lives.

 

The reward of work is money, and if the money doesn't make it worthwhile, all the other stuff is bullshit.

[Ray Gin]

.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Ray Gin

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

"They don't WANT to work!"

 

Damn straight many don't want to work. I worked in asda in Grangemouth a couple of years ago, a bunch of my former colleagues are having to turn to food banks because they get their wages wrong so often. Maximum hours most can get is 20 a week (less obligation to part time staff) and there's not much else going on the area if you can't work in the chemical plant. I have friends who work, and have to claim benefits, and it's miserable for them, but they don't drive and aren't skilled. Work poverty's a disgrace.

 

No one cares about the lowest rung, if you're going to be 20 quid a week better off working but exhausted and can't keep up the housework is it worth seeing less of the kids?

 

It's an upper class ideal, the rewards of work, to keep us all thinking we need it to fulfil our lives.

 

The reward of work is money, and if the money doesn't make it worthwhile, all the other stuff is bullshit.

Work is a good thing. Much better doing something productive but it has to be rewarding too. 

[manaliveits105]

6 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Sturgeon had no choice. That's why she repeatedly refused to answer last week questions about if the Lord Advocate thought the Bill was within the powers of the Scottish Parliament.

 

It's now been revealed that the Lord Advocate thought it did not.

 

Maybe she just forgot what was in her secret legal advice? Obfuscation, redaction and secrecy, it's the SNP way.

Now If Boris goes so does Elsie’s only policy 

could be a bad week all round for her 

[XB52]

13 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Now If Boris goes so does Elsie’s only policy 

could be a bad week all round for her 

😂😂😂😂 Shouldn't you be on the tory lies thread defending your great leader; or is it time to move on from that 

[XB52]

Once again, unemployment rates ; 3.2% in Scotland, 3.7% in UK. Shouldn't all you snp haters be starting a thread about the workshy English/Welsh

[i wish jj was my dad]

30 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Now If Boris goes so does Elsie’s only policy 

could be a bad week all round for her 

I know you are trying to stir the shit but I think you are right this time. 

 

The string pullers know that BloJo the Liar was a step too far for all but the most wild eyed extremists and they will have to put a moderate and a half way competent 'leader' in place this time or they will be oot for a very long time. That would be very bad for business. 

 

NS will have to rethink her strategy if the Tories can find someone who actually wants to govern the UK rather than use it as a means to get their hole (and make their pals rich while they are at it). 

[The Mighty Thor]

52 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I know you are trying to stir the shit but I think you are right this time. 

 

The string pullers know that BloJo the Liar was a step too far for all but the most wild eyed extremists and they will have to put a moderate and a half way competent 'leader' in place this time or they will be oot for a very long time. That would be very bad for business. 

 

NS will have to rethink her strategy if the Tories can find someone who actually wants to govern the UK rather than use it as a means to get their hole (and make their pals rich while they are at it). 

I disagree.

 

Whilst Johnson is an objectionable, lying piece of shit, he remains just the figurehead of the Tory Party.

 

What won't change with a change of driver is that the good ship Tory will continue to pursue its UKIP/BNP/English Nationalist agenda and will continue to slide towards fascism with all that entails for the UK.

 

The economy will continue to slide down the shitter as the Chancellor didn't use any of the levers available to him, instead keeping it banked for a future tax cut before an election. 

 

Brexit will continue to impoverish the whole of the UK for the next 20-40 years.

 

All these things will still be there, even if Johnson isn't, therefore the rationale for Scottish Independence is still as valid as it was during any of the previous Tory & Labour administrations over the last 50 years.  

[The Mighty Thor]

 

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

 

Okay, so plan A put to bed now. But Sturgeon now needs to progress onto plan B with pace. Think she'd said in her initial speech that the UK government were getting served papers. Fully expect the UK Supreme court to reject the petition which will likely mean the next general election will be the defacto referendum vote. 

 

I hope Blackford and co continue step up the pressure in Westminster though. Doubtful it will make any difference but important that the debate is not allowed to be put to bed. 

 

Find it quite ridiculous that to hold a referendum we need permission, but to stand on a single issue and turn a general election into one we don't. 

 

One thing thats been nagging at me, is surely this should be contested in a Scots court under Scots law? I worry that by contesting it in the UK supreme court that will create legal precedent. Although, I imagine it can be appealed to a higher authority beyond the UK supreme court. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

Tbf, I don't disagree with the sentiments of the letter. I just don't think he believes a word of it himself. 

[dobmisterdobster]

22 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

 

She is leading you up the garden path

[dobmisterdobster]

12 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Tbf, I don't disagree with the sentiments of the letter. I just don't think he believes a word of it himself. 

 

Does it matter?

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Does it matter?

I'd like to think a PM or any Minister, UKG or SG occasionally believed what they said. 

Naive I know..   

[dobmisterdobster]

3 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I'd like to think a PM or any Minister, UKG or SG occasionally believed what they said. 

Naive I know..   

 

Bottom line is. Scotland has a mandate from her people to remain a part of the UK.

I don't care how it's done.

Edited July 6, 2022 by dobmisterdobster

[i wish jj was my dad]

10 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Bottom line is. Scotland has a mandate from her people to remain a part of the UK.

I don't care how it's done.

Whether I like it or not she was voted in on a manifesto that said she would seek a Referendum. 

[manaliveits105]

32 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

She is leading you up the garden path

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

She is leading you up the garden path

On today, of all days, as your mob implode in front of the eyes of the whole wide world, you post that.

 

😂

 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

On today, of all days, as your mob implode in front of the eyes of the whole wide world, you post that.

 

😂

 

Boris' successor isn't going to approve your pretendyref.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Boris' successor isn't going to approve your pretendyref.

Is that it? 😂

 

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Boris' successor isn't going to approve your pretendyref.

That's precisely why it will happen. Maybe if the UKG (let's face it, the tories) actually tried to make things better and stabilise the country rather than lining the pockets of their pals they would be able shut the SNP up democratically. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

She is leading you up the garden path

I know . Fools 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

That's precisely why it will happen. Maybe if the UKG (let's face it, the tories) actually tried to make things better and stabilise the country rather than lining the pockets of their pals they would be able shut the SNP up democratically. 

They couldn't if they tried. They've got no mandate up here.

In fact if it wasn't for the Holyrood electoral system of STV they wouldn't have a single seat. 

[dobmisterdobster]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Is that it? 😂

 

Indeed it is.

 

6 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

That's precisely why it will happen. Maybe if the UKG (let's face it, the tories) actually tried to make things better and stabilise the country rather than lining the pockets of their pals they would be able shut the SNP up democratically. 

 

Appeasement is not the answer. Cameron already made that mistake.

[Jeffros Furios]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I know . Fools 

[The Mighty Thor]

8 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Indeed it is.

 

 

Appeasement is not the answer. Cameron already made that mistake.

Cameron tried to appease his own party, your mob. 

That was before it was taken over by the UKIP/BNP & English Nationalists. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Cameron tried to appease his own party, your mob. 

That was before it was taken over by the UKIP/BNP & English Nationalists. 

Fair comment. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

42 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Indeed it is.

 

 

Appeasement is not the answer. Cameron already made that mistake.

Are you being serious or just trolling? I really hope it is the latter. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

48 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I know . Fools 

Where is she leading us? 

[Konrad von Carstein]

3 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Bottom line is. Scotland has a mandate from her people to remain a part of the UK.

I don't care how it's done.

A mandate garnered through lies, fear mongering and false promises.

 

I think I recall that you reside in England, so why do you GAF about Scotland's status?

[dobmisterdobster]

2 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

A mandate garnered through lies, fear mongering and false promises.

 

I think I recall that you reside in England, so why do you GAF about Scotland's status?

 

It is called having an opinion. Is that not allowed anymore?

 

You are quite right. I do reside in England and I do believe that only Scottish residents should have a vote.

[Konrad von Carstein]

3 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

It is called having an opinion. Is that not allowed anymore?

 

You are quite right. I do reside in England and I do believe that only Scottish residents should have a vote.

Of course it is.

 

Any thoughts on my first para?

[dobmisterdobster]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

Of course it is.

 

Any thoughts on my first para?

 

A decisive majority voted no. I doubt any devolution pledges would've changed the outcome.

[Konrad von Carstein]

3 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

A decisive majority voted no. I doubt any devolution pledges would've changed the outcome.

Ah, you have a closed mind I see.

I've said elsewhere that there was a significant vote for indie that should have gave your party pause for thought with regard to the way the "union" is run but no, the vow and it's promises binned next day and EVEL launched almost immediately.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Konrad von Carstein

[The Mighty Thor]

Anyone watching the events of today and the absolute disregard for decency and honour who thinks, aye they're the guys for us, needs professional help. 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

Ah, you have a closed mind I see.

Iveysaid elsewhere that there was a significant vote for indie that should have gave your party pause for thought with regard to the way the "union" is run but no, the vow and it's promises binned next day and EVEL launched almost immediately.

 

 

The irony of calling opposing view points closed minded.

 

I can't imagine why you would oppose EVEL. Surely England gets to decide it's own affairs as Scotland already does?

[i wish jj was my dad]

6 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

A decisive majority voted no. I doubt any devolution pledges would've changed the outcome.

And a decisive majority voted for SNP on  manifesto commitment on indyref2 in this parliament. 

I don't want it but your attitude is precisely why it will happen. Deny democracy at your peril. 

[dobmisterdobster]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

And a decisive majority voted for SNP on  manifesto commitment on indyref2 in this parliament. 

I don't want it but your attitude is precisely why it will happen. Deny democracy at your peril. 

 

I could run for my local Parish Council on the promise to legalise the death penalty. Doesn't mean anything.

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

The irony of calling opposing view points closed minded.

 

I can't imagine why you would oppose EVEL. Surely England gets to decide it's own affairs as Scotland already does?

Scotland doesn't. 

 

We're too wee, too poor, too stupid to decide our own affairs. We need a criminal gang of UKIP/BNP/English Nationalists to decide the big stuff for us.