** Hearts - January Transfer Window 2022 ** Toby Sibbick signs 3.5 year deal

[ray]

4 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Yip he signs for them I would have him nowhere near the team and leave him to rot until the summer. We are too soft for that now though

Let him go now but we take cedric itten from them in exchange??

[john thomas]

14 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

He’ll just need to make sure we get an immediate fee if he’s going there. That’s up to him and his agent. We can’t be playing someone who’s signed for Rangers. He’d get slaughtered.

Have no axe to grind with JS . Don't get the vitriol and the ridiculous criticism of his ability .

But if he signs with rangers we , for professional reasons , should not play him .

Souttar will not want to lose his Scotland place . He will , for that reason alone , want to move right away .

The above gives us bargaining power which we should/will use

[BackOfTheNet]

25 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Almost certain trophy per season. probably a league winner this season. Almost certain CL group stage football next season. 5 figures a week salary. Not sure how more ambitious you can be in a footballing sense and he would still have a chance for a move to the EPL if he does well there

I get what you’re saying, but the point was about ambition. There is zero ambition playing for one of those two. They will never win anything in Europe and anything they win domestically is the minimum requirement for them. And not in a ‘we feel we’re elite and therefore have high standards’ way, but in a we buy the trophies season in and season out, in part by taking players from our competitors for peanuts and keeping them down. Said it before, any domestic medals Rangers or Celtic players win are worth as much as a McDonalds happy meal, as they have to do next to nothing to ‘earn’ them.

[JimmyCant]

Just now, BackOfTheNet said:

I get what you’re saying, but the point was about ambition. There is zero ambition playing for one of those two. They will never win anything in Europe and anything they win domestically is the minimum requirement for them. And not in a ‘we feel we’re elite and therefore have high standards’ way, but in a we buy the trophies season in and season out, in part by taking players from our competitors for peanuts and keeping them down. Said it before, any domestic medals Rangers or Celtic players win are worth as much as a McDonalds happy meal, as they have to do next to nothing to ‘earn’ them.

Blackburn and Forest and even Burnley ? Are they winning worthwhile trophies or getting into The Champions league ? Is Souttar provenly good enough to play at the top end of the EPL ? No he isn’t. He probably never will be.

[Heartsofgold]

He will also know that a move west will guarantee him a starting place in EVERY Scotland team for the foreseeable future.

[19052012]

11 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

You’re confusing ambition with financial reward. The CL is a big draw. No other club in Britain that Souttar has knocking on his door can offer that. It’s a move with a bigger move in mind. You don’t go from Hearts to Man Utd. Rangers to Man Utd is feasible.

I don't even think you go from Rangers to Man Utd these days. You go from one of the Ugly Sisters to the likes of Brentford, Crystal Palace or Southampton first.

[19052012]

11 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Enormous. Very happy about this.

[TheBigO]

6 minutes ago, john thomas said:

Have no axe to grind with JS . Don't get the vitriol and the ridiculous criticism of his ability .

But if he signs with rangers we , for professional reasons , should not play him .

Souttar will not want to lose his Scotland place . He will , for that reason alone , want to move right away .

The above gives us bargaining power which we should/will use

Exactly.  Nothing against the lad, really in acutal life, if he goes to Rangers or otherwise.  He seems a particularly nice guy actually.

 

HOWEEEEEVER. Football isn't rational and I'm certainly not when football is concerned (or sausages, I lose my shit over sausages.  And boobs).  So he goes to Rangers, he's dead to me and I want them to fail with him in their team.  Fail horribly.  Liquidation please.

 

The point you make is the crux for me though.  I want Hearts - my club, our club who I want to challenge the OF - to make it very very clear that we aren't a feeder club to Glasgow.  You want to deal with us about one of our players?  Ok, it'll be on our terms.  Meet them or jog on.  The rest of Scottish football can lick the OF groin, but na, you're our competition and dealing with us will never be easy on or off the park.

[kingantti1874]

As I feared with soapy.. 

 

he will make the same money in a league he knows he can stroll as opposed to the championship with loads and loads of physical games.  He will be a first pick for scotland And will the odd champions league game 

 

since they declared their interest I think this was certain..

 

gutted

[soonbe110]

25 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

It's most certainly not ambitious. Any professional player choosing to play in the SPFL when better leagues are on offer isn't ambitious. They're seeking the easy life imo 

What league is bigger than the Champions League? 

[JWL]

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

Exactly.  Nothing against the lad, really in acutal life, if he goes to Rangers or otherwise.  He seems a particularly nice guy actually.

 

HOWEEEEEVER. Football isn't rational and I'm certainly not when football is concerned (or sausages, I lose my shit over sausages.  And boobs).  So he goes to Rangers, he's dead to me and I want them to fail with him in their team.  Fail horribly.  Liquidation please.

 

The point you make is the crux for me though.  I want Hearts - my club, our club who I want to challenge the OF - to make it very very clear that we aren't a feeder club to Glasgow.  You want to deal with us about one of our players?  Ok, it'll be on our terms.  Meet them or jog on.  The rest of Scottish football can lick the OF groin, but na, you're our competition and dealing with us will never be easy on or off the park.

 

That certainly is the crux. Unfortunately however, we seem as soft as shite right now and will more than likely end up with a token fee and will let Souttar go to Rangers in January, or alternatively, agree a pre-contract and keep playing him until he joins them at the end of the season. Sincerely hope I am wrong and we banish him to the stand for the remainder of his time at Hearts.

[JimmyCant]

9 minutes ago, 19052012 said:

I don't even think you go from Rangers to Man Utd these days. You go from one of the Ugly Sisters to the likes of Brentford, Crystal Palace or Southampton first.

Probably true enough. But none of those clubs are interested in Souttar so he needs to take little steps and get his profile raised.

[BackOfTheNet]

13 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Blackburn and Forest and even Burnley ? Are they winning worthwhile trophies or getting into The Champions league ? Is Souttar provenly good enough to play at the top end of the EPL ? No he isn’t. He probably never will be.

The league they play in is more competitive, Burnley play in one of the elite leagues in the world. (Whether us Scottish fans like to say it’s overhyped, it is what it is) The other teams are one decent season away from promotion to that elite league. The competitive aspect is a huge deal, meaning players have to be on form week in, week out. In Glasgow they just have to hope one or two of their big bucks players put on a show, the rest can coast. And it seems the main argument you have for ambition by playing for Rangers or Celtic is that players are more likely to make a move from them to a bigger club in England. I’d argue a good season in the Championship can get you a big money mover to the Premiership much easier.

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

You’re confusing ambition with financial reward. The CL is a big draw. No other club in Britain that Souttar has knocking on his door can offer that. It’s a move with a bigger move in mind. You don’t go from Hearts to Man Utd. Rangers to Man Utd is feasible.

Has anyone ever went from Rangers to Man U and only one of those will be playing in the CL next season it would seem. 

[I.T.K]

5 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Exactly.  Nothing against the lad, really in acutal life, if he goes to Rangers or otherwise.  He seems a particularly nice guy actually.

 

HOWEEEEEVER. Football isn't rational and I'm certainly not when football is concerned (or sausages, I lose my shit over sausages.  And boobs).  So he goes to Rangers, he's dead to me and I want them to fail with him in their team.  Fail horribly.  Liquidation please.

 

The point you make is the crux for me though.  I want Hearts - my club, our club who I want to challenge the OF - to make it very very clear that we aren't a feeder club to Glasgow.  You want to deal with us about one of our players?  Ok, it'll be on our terms.  Meet them or jog on.  The rest of Scottish football can lick the OF groin, but na, you're our competition and dealing with us will never be easy on or off the park.

 

Problem is that JS is free to speak to other clubs. Other clubs don't need to speak to us or meet our terms.

 

If they want to buy out the last 6 months of his contract then ne can negotiate, but at this point its all but over.  

 

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, JWL said:

 

That certainly is the crux. Unfortunately however, we seem as soft as shite right now and will more than likely end up with a token fee and will let Souttar go to Rangers in January, or alternatively, agree a pre-contract and keep playing him until he joins them at the end of the season. Sincerely hope I am wrong and we banish him to the stand for the remainder of his time at Hearts.

We’ll look like bendy toys if he does a PCA with Rangers and we keep playing him. Fan base won’t like it. I dare say the squad won’t like it.Some will slaughter him during games. You just can’t have that kind of counter productive element in the team when we’re pushing to keep a really important 3rd place this season.

[Ford Prentice]

There's another thread for all the Souttar chat. Can people use it and leave this for news/views about other transfers. Souttar is yesterday's man.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Ford Prentice

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

The league they play in is more competitive, Burnley play in one of the elite leagues in the world. (Whether us Scottish fans like to say it’s overhyped, it is what it is) The other teams are one decent season away from promotion to that elite league. The competitive aspect is a huge deal, meaning players have to be on form week in, week out. In Glasgow they just have to hope one or two of their big bucks players put on a show, the rest can coast. And it seems the main argument you have for ambition by playing for Rangers or Celtic is that players are more likely to make a move from them to a bigger club in England. I’d argue a good season in the Championship can get you a big money mover to the Premiership much easier.

Apart from Tierney what other player from the uglies have went to a bigger team in the EPL?

[Pasquale for King]

18 minutes ago, 19052012 said:

I don't even think you go from Rangers to Man Utd these days. You go from one of the Ugly Sisters to the likes of Brentford, Crystal Palace or Southampton first.

Indeed. 

[Taffin]

30 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

You’re confusing ambition with financial reward. The CL is a big draw. No other club in Britain that Souttar has knocking on his door can offer that. It’s a move with a bigger move in mind. You don’t go from Hearts to Man Utd. Rangers to Man Utd is feasible.

 

I'm not. Playing in Scotland is not a good level of football. Yes there's champions League games but they're cannon fodder and will never win anything. Week in, week out testing yourself at a high level against good teams in a competitive league over a season is ambition imo. None of this rocking up, winning 4-0 and doing it against the same cloggers 4 times a season.

 

Despite how much they've fallen, John Souttar won't be signing for Man Utd regardless of whether he goes to Rangers first or not imo

[Clark Griswold]

5 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

There's another thread for all the Souttar chat. Can people use it and leave this for news/views about other transfers. Souttar is yesterday's man.

This.

[neilr61]

1 hour ago, karipidis said:

Taylor Moore has started RCB in 2 games this season. 0 goals conceded and looked excellent in both games. I think we have an able replacement for the rest of the season, and should start ahead of Souttar if Souttar stays having signed a pre contract with Rangers. 

He had a shocker away at motherwell at centre back mind you

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

What league is bigger than the Champions League? 

 

The EPL.

 

Either way a handful of games each season getting skelped out in the group stages isn't ambitious 

[mellors1874]

26 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

He will also know that a move west will guarantee him a starting place in EVERY Scotland team for the foreseeable future.

He's guaranteed that now with hearts as we're not exactly blessed with shit hot centre halfs 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

24 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

The CL is a big draw. No other club in Britain that Souttar has knocking on his door can offer that. It’s a move with a bigger move in mind. You don’t go from Hearts to Man Utd. Rangers to Man Utd is feasible.

 

Souttar will probably get dropped from the Rangers team for CL games as the manager wont see him as an equal, just a do-a-job squaddie meanwhile they will go and buy a couple of £3-4m CB. Souttar will get rotated in for Fir Park away. It’s absolutely pants on head laughable to suggest he’ll be looking at a pathway to Man United from Rangers 😂 it’s a pathway back to Dundee United. 

 

It is an admission that he’ll probably spend the rest of his career in the SPL. But maybe he’s happy with that, possibly just given up on being a top top level pro and just happy to take the OF money and get in a few national squads till he’s 29-30 and his body breaks down. Doesn’t want to test himself just happy to take the cash and then call it a day. He wouldn’t be the first and won’t be the last. 

 

It is a sideways move in terms of the football standard week in week out. It’s the same league. He would shortly end up another Johnny Hayes or Andy Webster or Jason Holt or Kyle Lafferty or even Leigh Griffiths or countless others that go there and think they’ve hit the big time, **** up their good form and football development, never become top level players then binned and on the scrap heap. But it’s down to the played at the end of the day. Sadly his agent will not be telling him the truth about what’ll happen to him at Rangers. 

 

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

What league is bigger than the Champions League? 

 

The champions league isn’t a league it’s a cup. The right question here is, what league is bigger than the SPFL Premiership? Because that’s the league Rangers play in. 

 

[BackOfTheNet]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Apart from Tierney what other player from the uglies have went to a bigger team in the EPL?

Quite. That’s my point. Play a decent season for Blackburn he may even earn promotion, have a decent season in the Premier League even if relegated he’ll have offers from the Brightons, Palaces etc. Have a few consistent seasons in the PL and you never know. Look at the ridiculous money they spend down there on mediocre defensive players just because “they know the league”. He’s more likely to get that move from a Championship side than he is from Rangers or Celtic. He’s not Van Dijk, he’s more like Connor Goldson, and he’s not being flush with PL offers despite being out of contract is he?

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Quite. That’s my point. Play a decent season for Blackburn he may even earn promotion, have a decent season in the Premier League even if relegated he’ll have offers from the Brightons, Palaces etc. Have a few consistent seasons in the PL and you never know. Look at the ridiculous money they spend down there on mediocre defensive players just because “they know the league”. He’s more likely to get that move from a Championship side than he is from Rangers or Celtic. He’s not Van Dijk, he’s more like Connor Goldson, and he’s not being flush with PL offers despite being out of contract is he?

If he has any ambition then moving south is the way to go, moving to either of the uglies or being injured won’t get him a move. He’s not as good as the players that have went south from Glasgow.
We are all assuming his injury problems are behind him, as he still hasn’t played 20 games on the trot for us and probably never will, it’s a big assumption.

I’m actually sick of talking about him and we should be moving on from players that want to leave.  

[TheBigO]

16 minutes ago, I.T.K said:

 

Problem is that JS is free to speak to other clubs. Other clubs don't need to speak to us or meet our terms.

 

If they want to buy out the last 6 months of his contract then ne can negotiate, but at this point its all but over.  

 

Kind of, but we can make it very clear they'll be getting a player who has been training by himself for 6 months

22 minutes ago, JWL said:

 

That certainly is the crux. Unfortunately however, we seem as soft as shite right now and will more than likely end up with a token fee and will let Souttar go to Rangers in January, or alternatively, agree a pre-contract and keep playing him until he joins them at the end of the season. Sincerely hope I am wrong and we banish him to the stand for the remainder of his time at Hearts.

I would doubt very much that Joe Savage is soft as shite in negotiation, nor Andrew McKinlay or Ann for that matter.

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, mellors1874 said:

He's guaranteed that now with hearts as we're not exactly blessed with shit hot centre halfs 

Under no circumstances is he first choice for Scotland, will be lucky to be in the squad if everyone’s fit. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Kind of, but we can make it very clear they'll be getting a player who has been training by himself for 6 months

I would doubt very much that Joe Savage is soft as shite in negotiation, nor Andrew McKinlay or Ann for that matter.

Savage definitely but what proof do we have that Budge or McKinley are tough negotiators?

[BackOfTheNet]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

If he has any ambition then moving south is the way to go, moving to either of the uglies or being injured won’t get him a move. He’s not as good as the players that have went south from Glasgow.
We are all assuming his injury problems are behind him, as he still hasn’t played 20 games on the trot for us and probably never will, it’s a big assumption.

I’m actually sick of talking about him and we should be moving on from players that want to leave.  

It certainly has the Hickey of Irving about it where we know he’s leaving, so for the love of god get it over and done with and have him oot.

[mellors1874]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Under no circumstances is he first choice for Scotland, will be lucky to be in the squad if everyone’s fit. 

Sorry read it wrong thought u had said in the squad.

He's not going to play as first choice even at rangers as Clarke plays the ones he's loyal too.

[davemclaren]

54 minutes ago, john thomas said:

Have no axe to grind with JS . Don't get the vitriol and the ridiculous criticism of his ability .

But if he signs with rangers we , for professional reasons , should not play him .

Souttar will not want to lose his Scotland place . He will , for that reason alone , want to move right away .

The above gives us bargaining power which we should/will use

Nail on head. We do have some leverage in this situation. 

[CloustonHMFC]

Cheerio John. Make sure you let the door hit you on the way out.

[Heartsofgold]

22 minutes ago, mellors1874 said:

He's guaranteed that now with hearts as we're not exactly blessed with shit hot centre halfs 

Don't agree!!  Clarke will ALWAYS bias towards the arse cheeks and overseas based players.  Souttar is more than capable but others will be chosen in from of him while he plays for Hearts.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Heartsofgold

[TheBigO]

10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Savage definitely but what proof do we have that Budge or McKinley are tough negotiators?

I just have a feeling that the whole covid demotion etc was a huge wakeup call for everyone senior at the club.  The general feel of the club has changed since then imo.  With us or against us.

 

No proof of course, but it just feels that way to me.

[Homme]

I'd go to Rangers too over English Championship run of the mill shit.

 

Playing in CL, guaranteed Scotland caps, good wage, trophies.

 

It'll stick in the craw a bit seeing him in blue but Soapy has never been irreplaceable. We've lost far more important players to the OF over the years.

[David McCaig]

Club policy should be that no one plays for Hearts after signing a pre-contract with another club.

[Rogue Daddy]

15 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

It certainly has the Hickey of Irving about it where we know he’s leaving, so for the love of god get it over and done with and have him oot.

Hopefully it'll have a similar non-Scottish outcome. It does seem like we've been here before (certainly with Hickey - and smeltic trying to upset the applecart!)

[Gmcjambo]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Savage definitely but what proof do we have that Budge or McKinley are tough negotiators?

Does it matter?   I thought Savage was the one who negotiated player contracts,  would be very surprised if Budge or McKinley get involved in negotiations - they should just be approving the budget.

[DB-14]

18 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Under no circumstances is he first choice for Scotland, will be lucky to be in the squad if everyone’s fit. 

 

That is absolute pish I'm afraid. Scotland's CB choices are dire. Souttar will be in there every time if he is fit.

[j1964m]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

Club policy should be that no one plays for Hearts after signing a pre-contract with another club.

This 100% 

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Club policy should be that no one plays for Hearts after signing a pre-contract with another club.

 

What happens when injuries and suspensions kick in and we have nobody else?

[The Old Tolbooth]

3 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Club policy should be that no one plays for Hearts after signing a pre-contract with another club.

 

Not another Scottish club anyway, an English club and a step up I wouldn't mind, but to help out others around us, nahhhh, I agree 100%, drop him if he doesn't go now! 

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Gmcjambo said:

Does it matter?   I thought Savage was the one who negotiated player contracts,  would be very surprised if Budge or McKinley get involved in negotiations - they should just be approving the budget.

That's a bit of black/white view.

Savage may well do the negotiating but he will have parameters within which to work.

[Cruyff]

7 minutes ago, Homme said:

I'd go to Rangers too over English Championship run of the mill shit.

 

Playing in CL, guaranteed Scotland caps, good wage, trophies.

 

It'll stick in the craw a bit seeing him in blue but Soapy has never been irreplaceable. We've lost far more important players to the OF over the years.

Yup. Spot on. 

[Mr Elwood P]

Why wouldn't we play him if he's still here???

 

Have Rangers dropped Goldson?

Have Chelsea dropped Rudiger?

[stevie1874]

2 hours ago, andrew said:

I'm fed up reading about Souttar, I hope we are able to sell him now so we can move on.

 

He's a good player but certainly not irreplaceable.  In terms of defending, he doesn't come close to Ritchie, Webster or Berra IMO.

Hallkett is the player in our squad most likely the 3 players you mentioned. Souttar more a ball playing central defender. Can you imagine playing a back 3 with the 3 you’ve quoted.

[jamtartan74]

41 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Apart from Tierney what other player from the uglies have went to a bigger team in the EPL?

Allan Hutton, Liam Miller? Billy Gilmour 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Cruyff]

I don't see the problem playing Souttar if he is on form and giving 100%. I'd imagine he will continue to try his best. 

 

I totally understand why he wants to go to der Hun, at the end of the day he will be replaced. That's football. Players generally go to bigger clubs if they do well. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Cruyff