“ Doctors “ pub trans row

[John Findlay]

7 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Bizarre. If you felt I was referring to you then that says a lot about you tbh.

Actually it says more about you and yes you were referring to me.

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Tazio said:

In this case it has inspired a 12 year old who it seems is interested in drag. Fair enough. My argument (viewpoint?) is that from gay members of society becoming accepted and not treated as anything odd thanks to positive role models on TV and films, the emergence of drag as mainline television has brought back harmful stereotypes. I'd even say that things like Ru Paul's Dragrace are damaging. Gay people I know are split in terms of watching it but straight women seem to be almost universal in their enjoyment at it. People who are hard of thinking will make assumptions based on drag culture and equate it to all gay men when it blatantly isn't. 

Good posting.  Drag culture has always been a part of the gay scene. In fact its very much part of the straight scene too * abroad mainly and accepted. I have no issues with this at all. In fact always have enjoyed a drag show. Its when it becomes used by the arseholes saying its life changing for a gay person, thats when I find it offensive. Like anyone else of a certain age i enjoyed the two ronnies when they dragged up but no way did I identify with them in my burgeoning sexuality. IN fact there were hardly any positive gay role models when i was 12 years old. I cant even think of one. 

[Alex Kintner]

10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

and you always come over as woke know it all about every conceivable issue.

 

domestic abuse 

Women's safety 

Child protection 

 

and now Gay and Lesbian issues  

 

Very nauseating really. You must be a real hoot at a party. 

Being knowledgable about those issues because it’s the area I work in makes me woke? 
😂😂😂

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Actually it says more about you and yes you were referring to me.

Give your head a wobble you daftie. You’re the one who made a personal judgement about me😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

19 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I'd even say that things like Ru Paul's Dragrace are damaging. Gay people I know are split in terms of watching it but straight women seem to be almost universal in their enjoyment at it

I'm on the fence with drag race as i love it. Its great entertainment.. However the pro nouns of the contestants as " she" " Her" etc may be offensive to women.  Rupaul has attempted to change some of the language used. She used to say " "ladies start your engines " but now says " racers start your engines".  There has been a shift towards more sensitivity to how it portrays gay men and tries to avoid stereotyping ( well as much as one can when dressing in drag  ) None of the contestant's claim to be women or want to be women. They clearly identify as gay men.  They also make it clear that they only do drag as its a job,  Its not a lifestyle choice as such.  They are not transvestites. There has been a trans person on it and currently there is a hetero guy on it . One of my friends who is a radical feminist finds it very offensive. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, jonesy said:

FTFY  

LOL actually she was woke before woke was even fashionable. She was a councillor with Edinburgh city council several years back and she wanted to start a campaign to close strip joins on Lothian Road.   She claimed there were men walking about Lothian road on  a Saturday night with " hard ons."   !!  Seriously.  How very dare they.  It had to be stopped.  She was talked out of her campaign by us . In fact she is a great laugh and good friend. 

[Mikey1874]

Not everyone is as nice as Ant and Dec

 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Exactly . It is offensive to suggest it might change the lives of some gay people . I lived through the stereotyping of John Inman , Larry Grayson etc . It’s black face for gays really . 

 

We need more black face for gay guys imo.

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

We need more black face for gay guys imo.

 

[Captain Slog]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

FTFY  

That made me laugh, I know I shouldn't have

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Not everyone is as nice as Ant and Dec

 

 

True . 

[Captain Slog]

When I was growing up, there was a comedian called Russ Abbott who had a character called Jimmy.  I found the sketches involving him hilarious.  Never identified with him though, never was offended by the racist tropes about Scots being violent and hard drinkers and unintelligible - took it in the spirit the humour was intended.  Much as i appreciate the entertainment provided by a decent drag act.

 

Conversely, at school, a teacher showed us a film by an actor called Laurence Olivier.  Possibly the greatest acting performance I'd witnessed, and it did inspire me. make me want to act like that in the school plays.  Olivier played the title role in Othello.  I understand the make up is 'blackface' now, and there are places that have cancelled the film.  Where's the insult if it not only inspires a white kid to act, but also portrays a very strong Coloured African, even if played by a European in make up - as was traditional in theatres in Shakespeare's day.  Surely actors and entertainers are acting and entertaining, their sex, colour doesn't matter.

[Captain Slog]

Also, i don't think you can stereotyoe drag queens.  I recall once nipping into the Old Salt for a pint after a back shift, not realising it had changed name and was hosting a drag act that night.  When i was out for a cigarette, the act came out, apologised they had no where in their outfit for a cig and so got some of mine, and we had a great ten minutes having a beer and chatting about football and how pubs had changed.  The act was so comfortable in who they were, a male chatting to a male, and i was so happy to see so comfortable switching to almost another persona when they went in to talk to the LGBs inside.  Is nothing to do with gender, is all about being comfortable in your situation and accepted.

 

Apologies, i had to edit, Im scared to use pronouns

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Captain Slog
wokes will crucify me

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Also, i don't think you can stereotyoe drag queens.  I recall once nipping into the Old Salt for a pint after a back shift, not realising it had changed name and was hosting a drag act that night.  When i was out for a cigarette, the act came out, apologised they had no where in their outfit for a cig and so got some of mine, and we had a great ten minutes having a beer and chatting about football and how pubs had changed.  The act was so comfortable in who they were, a male chatting to a male, and i was so happy to see so comfortable switching to almost another persona when they went in to talk to the LGBs inside.  Is nothing to do with gender, is all about being comfortable in your situation and accepted.

 

Apologies, i had to edit, Im scared to use pronouns

 

Did she take the drag queen hame ? 😂😂😂😂that’s an old chest nut ( not realising the pub had changed ! 😂) 

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Also, i don't think you can stereotyoe drag queens.  I recall once nipping into the Old Salt for a pint after a back shift, not realising it had changed name and was hosting a drag act that night.  When i was out for a cigarette, the act came out, apologised they had no where in their outfit for a cig and so got some of mine, and we had a great ten minutes having a beer and chatting about football and how pubs had changed.  The act was so comfortable in who they were, a male chatting to a male, and i was so happy to see so comfortable switching to almost another persona when they went in to talk to the LGBs inside.  Is nothing to do with gender, is all about being comfortable in your situation and accepted.

 

Apologies, i had to edit, Im scared to use pronouns

 

 

I've done drag a couple of times, I look like a bloke in a dress. TBH I'd be quite happy wearing those long north African tunic things, I'm no that into trousers stifling my glory.

[Captain Slog]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

🤣  Have to laugh at this, im too thick to understand the above one

 

[Captain Slog]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I've done drag a couple of times, I look like a bloke in a dress. TBH I'd be quite happy wearing those long north African tunic things, I'm no that into trousers stifling my glory.

Tbh. I always wanted to go to the Rocky horror show in full costume because i love the music.  Never had the balls younger.  Now the Playhouse keeps cancelling it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I've done drag a couple of times, I look like a bloke in a dress. TBH I'd be quite happy wearing those long north African tunic things, I'm no that into trousers stifling my glory.

Oh no 😂 you gotta look the best you can. I must say that when I’ve done drag I’ve been told I look “ gorgeous “ ! Apparently I look like Roxie from “ east Enders “ well a handsome guy said I did , mind you he had beer Google’s on 

[Captain Slog]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Oh no 😂 you gotta look the best you can. I must say that when I’ve done drag I’ve been told I look “ gorgeous “ ! Apparently I look like Roxie from “ east Enders “ well a handsome guy said I did , mind you he had beer Google’s on 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Captain Slog said:

Aye that’s her and I do ! Or did !

[Alex Kintner]

17 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Tbh. I always wanted to go to the Rocky horror show in full costume because i love the music.  Never had the balls younger.  Now the Playhouse keeps cancelling it.

Went a couple of times as Frank N Furter when I was younger and in better shape. Loved it 😂👍🏻

[JudyJudyJudy]

An excellent article about the furore in Scotland abut the proposed GRA  which is to be debated in Scottish Parl on Thursday 

 

 

Long, important read in the Telegraph:

She was meant to symbolise so much for women. Nicola Sturgeon, Queen of Scots – her rise a triumph for the Second Sex. Proof positive that even in the fractious, testosterone-fuelled world of Scottish politics, a female was – at last – the equal of males where it matters most: in power. And as the first woman to hold the post of First Minister, thousands of her Scottish sisters cheered when Sturgeon demanded independence from England or quarrelled fiercely over Brexit with one after another from the transient pack of British prime ministers.

It seemed to be a dream come true for women. Sturgeon denounced with alacrity her former close mentor and boss Alex Salmond when he faced charges of sexual assault, and lamented in 2017 that “Some of the brightest and best women in our society are stifled in their ambitions”.

So why now, has that totemic appeal to women – in Scotland and beyond – turned so sour that it affects not just her personally, but also jeopardises political loyalties including to the SNP? Why have so many women done the unthinkable, and abandoned old allegiances (to the EU, to Independence, to the Left) and made the decision that they are “female first” and those rights are more important than political parties or national identity?

Is it that in Sturgeon, they no longer see a champion for women’s rights but a sort of turncoat, who seems intent on stripping them of their rights, privacy and dignity?

Gender self-identification

This Thursday, the breaking point between ordinary women and Sturgeon will reach a new nadir with the introduction of draft legislation for the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. The proposed law is expected to make it easier for people to change their legal gender by allowing a system of self-identification, and reduce the time someone must live in the “acquired gender” from two years (as currently required) to three months.

It is a deeply controversial idea – a recent BBC poll found while 40 per cent of people support the right of trans people to ‘self-identify’ their gender, 38 per cent do not. A Panelbase poll in January found that as much as 71 per cent of Scots opposed the SNP’s reforms.

The process began with a 2018 consultation held across the UK on changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) in order to allow people to change gender without the medical checks currently required. Politicians such as Sturgeon argued at the time it would only impact a small number of transgender people, that it was in effect a fringe issue.

But as feminist campaigners started digging into the consequences of self-identification – without any meaningful gatekeeping, there were warnings new legislation would inevitably redefine the very basis of what it means to be male and female, and putting women at risk by depriving them of their rights to single-sex spaces.

Indeed, if the law is passed, all a man must do to gain access to female-only services is to state that they are a woman (through self-ID), campaigners warn, as obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) changes the way that equality laws designed to protect women are applied.

Concerns have been raised about the impact that this will have on toilet facilities, on healthcare, on women in prison, and services such as women’s refuges. Women at their most vulnerable will be denied the privacy and dignity of having spaces free from physically intact males, they point out. In extreme cases, it is feared those wishing to harm women could gain access to their spaces by claiming to be female. Often cited is the case of convicted paedophile Karen White, who was legally still a man when on remand for sex offences and rape but was placed in a women’s prison and assaulted female inmates. There are 12 trans prisoners convicted of violence or sexual crimes presently in Scottish women’s jails, according to figures released under Freedom of Information laws.

Sturgeon’s legislation may be the most pressing concern for campaigners, but it comes against a backdrop of events over the past two years across the UK which have alarmed women and brought the issue of self-ID into the wider consciousness. On the one hand, the Conservative Government ditched its own plans to change legislation UK-wide in 2020 with Liz Truss explaining that there were already “proper checks and balances in the system” for people who wanted to change gender.

Yet, despite this, there is a growing feeling among women – especially Generation X and older who remember the fight to establish single sex spaces in hospitals, for example, in the first place – that online and political “bullies” are still determined to shut down debate about women’s and transgender rights. The appointment of Mridul Wadhwa, a former Scottish parliamentary SNP candidate, as chief executive of Edinburgh Rape Crisis, a job that was advertised as reserved for a woman, has caused particular outrage. Wadhwa has allegedly no gender recognition certificate nor undergone gender reassignment surgery.

The increasingly polarised arguments have seen death threats and vitriol thrown around the internet. Women have been branded “terfs”, female academics such as Professor Kathleen Stock have been hounded out of universities, authors like JK Rowling – herself a Scottish voter, note – have been “cancelled” from the cultural universe and medics have lost their jobs because they held what are called “gender critical” or GC beliefs and insist on the reality of biology and science.

No wonder so many women – and men – are now at odds with the politicians who they thought would champion those rights, but who seem to be part of a group eroding them in the name of progression politics.

Those on the Left are finding themselves particularly hit hard. Many liberal feminists report finding themselves abandoned by their natural political home. Just last month Guardian columnist Hadley Freeman wrote a piece saying she did not feel supported to voice doubts about “gender ideology” and those questioning the narrative were being dismissed “as irrelevant middle-aged mums”.

In Westminster, Labour MP Dawn Butler claimed that “a child is born without a sex”, and even the party leader Sir Keir Starmer claimed it is wrong to say that only women have a cervix.

The Women’s Equality party, of all things, couldn’t seem to make up its mind, seemingly for fear of being on the wrong side, claiming it “supported the right of all to define their sex or gender or to reject gendered divisions as they choose” before sacking spokeswoman and feminist Dr Heather Brunskell-Evans on allegations of transphobia.

There is no doubt that the row has created an intellectual void where any woman wanting to debate female rights is labelled anti-progressive and threatened with losing their livelihood or reputation. No wonder many have retreated into private WhatsApp groups, or forums such as Mumsnet, to discuss concerns over gender neutral toilets, or the word ‘women’ being erased from issues surrounding healthcare and maternity.

Behind those closed doors women are debating whether those born male should be allowed to compete in women’s sport, a debate fuelled last week by transgender athlete Lia Thomas winning her races at the Ivy League championships. Or how outrageous it is that JK Rowling was erased by a New York Times advert which seemed to ask readers to imagine the Harry Potter books without their creator.

The end result is that with so many feeling abandoned by the politicians they thought were there to protect them, there is a new unity growing across party political lines so that women can fight together for those hard won rights they believe are now at risk. And nowhere is this more apparent than in Scotland. It seems Nicola Sturgeon – a politician who once described herself as a feminist to her fingertips – has become the face of what could be called “trans rights appeasement”.

Despite different causes and differing focuses in the debate, 15 women’s groups recently wrote to the First Minister accusing her of “failing at every turn” to engage with their concerns.

In recent years, she has also repeatedly faced anger from women’s groups and campaigners, even within her own party. She was publicly criticised for failing to condemn attacks on SNP politicians including Joanna Cherry who have spoken up for women’s rights.

Sturgeon and other senior SNP politicians were accused of blocking some of the country’s leading feminist voices on social media, and ignoring emails and letters.

“There was nothing feminist about her throwing very bright, capable women to the wolves, and male wolves in particular,” says Susan Smith, a director of campaign group For Women Scotland.

So why is Sturgeon set on this path? Many of the women now campaigning against the Scottish Government believe that she saw this issue as an easy win and a chance for virtue signalling and prioritising woke policies.

“I think that they thought it would be an easy win,” Smith says. “I don’t know that Nicola Sturgeon has a particularly profound understanding of feminism or women’s issues; she has been a very narrowly focused politician.”

There is also a political consideration. Last summer, Sturgeon announced a groundbreaking co-operation agreement between the SNP and the Scottish Greens, to give her a majority in the Scottish Parliament – and what she described as “a cast-iron mandate for giving the people of Scotland the choice of independence”. Although Sturgeon made it clear this was not a coalition, the parties’ shared manifesto included a promise to “reform the Gender Recognition Act in a Bill introduced in the first year of this parliamentary session. This will ensure the process by which a trans person can obtain legal recognition is simplified, reducing the trauma associated with that process.”

Perhaps she thought this was an easy concession to enable the march to achieving independence. Certainly, before 2018, most of the voices in their ears came from the trans lobby. The Scottish Government has paid controversial LGBT charity Stonewall thousands for advice on policies and on attending its events and training courses. Or did it just look like an “easier fix” suggests Smith, than dealing with social injustice or violence against women?

Sturgeon should not be blamed alone. says Lisa Mackenzie, a director of policy analysis collective Murray Blackburn Mackenzie (MBM). “The people who I reserve my anger for,” says Mackenzie, “are the institutions which have not realised that there are two groups of people who need to be considered. It is an institutional failure.”

MBM and For Women Scotland are now among a number of groups that are taking up the fight against the First Minister and the government they believed were meant to protect them. As Smith puts it, “women have been abandoned by groups supposed to protect them, the groups that are funded by the Scottish Government have really abdicated responsibility for this.”

Women won’t wheesht

So why did the First Minister and so many institutions make such a catastrophic misjudgement that those they usually purported to stand up for would be left feeling abandoned and betrayed?

In part, says Smith, it was a political miscalculation; she points out that the SNP was “complacent” about its support because it believed independence would remain the most important issue for voters. But also, “They underestimated Scottish women,” Smith says. “One of the things that has been quite noticeable is how we have been very vocal,” and that “people have been horrified about how loud Scottish women are.”

In particular, a rallying cry has emerged: “Women won’t wheesht” – which means women won’t be silenced. Before 2018, “wheesht” was a little known word, but one mother, concerned about her disabled daughter who needs sex-based care and it is feared will be unable to request a female nurse or doctor, turned the phrase into a hashtag that is now used by the feminist movement in Spain, France and Germany, too.

The woman, a SNP supporter, who tweets using the name @dis_critic and has asked to remain anonymous for the sake of her daughter, says she was “surprised by the response” but believes it is testament to the strength of feeling about the issues. “We feel robbed of something and we feel that we haven’t been listened to,” she says.

“I am now female first and Scottish after that. If people are fighting for female sex-based rights and single sex services then I am happy to join their discussion, no matter what party they are from.”

She adds, in what must be a warning shot to Sturgeon, “I have voted for the SNP and supported independence, but all of this has made me view it differently, because I want to be protected by equality laws. If being in an independent Scotland means that I won’t have the same sex-based rights, then I won’t be voting for an independent Scotland.”

She adds: “In a way I am really surprised with myself, but I know a lot of other people in the same situation.”

A study in the Scottish Affairs journal reinforces her view, pointing to an ever growing “army of women” that has now formed to fight the transgender reforms and attracted people from across Scotland’s usually rigid constitutional divide. This was illustrated after a recent legal win by For Women Scotland which ensured that women are recognised ‘as a sex’, not a ‘gender identity’ when they are considering representation on public boards. In celebrating victory, they thanked women’s organisations from Labour, the Lib Dems, the Conservatives, the SNP and the Alba Party, which also campaigns for independence.

The particular strength of the Scottish movement would seem to be that it is a band of ordinary women, from all professions, political persuasions, classes and sides of the debate who have come together. Many of them never would have imagined themselves fighting for a feminist cause. In fact Mackenzie laughs at the suggestion as though she did not think every battle was won: “I thought some of the important things were in the bag.”

What she didn’t see coming, Mackenzie says, “was people trying to unravel the definition of what it means to be a woman.” And in adversity these women have found unity; Mackenzie says: “Locking arms with these other people has been really important.”

Smith adds: “In that sense it has been a really positive experience being involved in something which cuts across the divides. We always say that we have people from all political parties and none, those for and against independence, from both sides of the Brexit debate; it cuts across class. This has united us.”

But still officialdom remains stuck. Sturgeon has personally insisted that the concerns about the GRA reform are “not valid” and that it “does not change in any way, shape or form any legal protections that women have.”

Engender, Scotland’s feminist policy and advocacy organisation, argues that it has not ignored the views of women, as “repeated independent polling shows that women in Scotland support reforming the GRA, and Engender’s own trans-inclusion policy was ratified by members long before these latest conversations about trans rights began”. It “routinely challenges the Scottish Government and other decision-makers”, and its funding is not dependent on holding particular views, a spokesman added.

The Scottish Government continues to insist that there is no problem and that there is a lack of evidence that including trans women in women-only services and spaces has negative impacts. It points out: “There have now [been] two public consultations on our proposed changes. First on the principles of reform in 2017, which showed that 60 per cent of respondents were in favour, and then in 2019 on a draft Gender Recognition Bill. We have published independent analyses of responses to both consultations.”

But even around the time of last summer’s SNP-Green Alliance manifesto launch, only about one in eight Scots thought gender legislation was an urgent priority. And this month’s BBC poll reported that 67 per cent of people have not even been following the debate closely.

The result is that no matter how much the establishment insists there is no issue, Sturgeon now has a problem with women that will not go away. SNP voters are abandoning her personally and campaigners have said that they will not vote for her again. And the more the debate is framed as a fait accompli, the louder Scottish women shout: “We won’t wheesht”.

As the GRA goes into a draft legislation this week, time is running out for women trying to prevent the changes. But time is also running out for Sturgeon if she wants to gain back the support of women voters.

What could she do? The campaigners echo the UK’s Equality and Human Rights Watchdog message to the Scottish Government – they should pause. Better still, they want a fresh start, this time consulting women about the impact new gender self-ID legislation will have, balancing the rights of transgender people and of women.

Perhaps the lesson for all politicians considering changes to hard won women’s rights is not to underestimate or take for granted half of their electorate.

As the campaign group Labour Women’s Declaration told those who would normally be their political rivals in a message celebrating a joint victory: “Women united will never be defeated”.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Woman’s sex based rights and girls safety thrown to the wolves to appease a very militant vocal minority . Supported by a first minister why claims to be a “ feminist to her finger tips “ 

 

Shameful day really 

 

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1499396473082957832.htm?fbclid=IwAR2vZnBBC1AImbZlhrHUJ0MMEUowt6WBxKYqBSfakpbufWiv_lmCNbwvkus

[JudyJudyJudy]

Well said 

 

 

 

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/kellie-maloney-urges-trans-women-to-accept-theyre-not-biological-women-and-are-medically-constructed/255964?fbclid=IwAR2kk23J9gss-YSxp2Z7YtuuhhluTsKhwrW3NvCxgn9Hxu8loAnsBAe27uM

[Ked]

https://www.nme.com/news/tv/father-ted-musical-axed-following-graham-linehans-controversial-views-3190721

 

No doubt it's difficult being uncomfortable with how you are born but cmoan tae fek how are we allowing the tip of the tail to wag the dog.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, Ked said:

https://www.nme.com/news/tv/father-ted-musical-axed-following-graham-linehans-controversial-views-3190721

 

No doubt it's difficult being uncomfortable with how you are born but cmoan tae fek how are we allowing the tip of the tail to wag the dog.

 

Disgraceful. 

[Tazio]

It was pretty awful to watch Linehan’s very public cracking up on Twitter. He went from someone who was critical of gender political types to becoming an absolute zealot engaged in constant nasty exchanges that neither side came out of well. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Tazio said:

It was pretty awful to watch Linehan’s very public cracking up on Twitter. He went from someone who was critical of gender political types to becoming an absolute zealot engaged in constant nasty exchanges that neither side came out of well. 

Unfortunately he stooped to their level. Its a delibtate ploy of the militant wing of the trans lobby. Erasing anyone who has a view different to theirs. 

 

 

 

[Ked]

3 hours ago, Tazio said:

It was pretty awful to watch Linehan’s very public cracking up on Twitter. He went from someone who was critical of gender political types to becoming an absolute zealot engaged in constant nasty exchanges that neither side came out of well. 

Perhaps .

This need from those in charge to pander to the views at the total exclusion of other views is wrong.

And those in charge know it .

But shite it.

 

[Dawnrazor]

[JudyJudyJudy]

50 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

funny as its so bloody true 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Sisters are doing it for themselves ! 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10674135/Three-women-launch-significant-female-movement-Suffragettes.html?fbclid=IwAR3vC1M1BD83D5fMNK61fKO_dd88475h17dWlN2vbD2mW6LtCyLQCefLFfY

[Dawnrazor]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Sisters are doing it for themselves ! 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10674135/Three-women-launch-significant-female-movement-Suffragettes.html?fbclid=IwAR3vC1M1BD83D5fMNK61fKO_dd88475h17dWlN2vbD2mW6LtCyLQCefLFfY

Stalla Creasy on Politics Live yesterday, if I remember correctly and I'll happily be correcred, said something along the lines that some women do have a peinis because they were born in the wrong body, or words to that effect.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Stalla Creasy on Politics Live yesterday, if I remember correctly and I'll happily be correcred, said something along the lines that some women do have a peinis because they were born in the wrong body, or words to that effect.

No one is " born in the wrong body" There are medical anomalies thats all. 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

No one is " born in the wrong body" There are medical anomalies thats all. 

I don't disagree, I'm only saying how Stalla Creasy saw it in relation to your link, I can't see it on catch up to get a more accurate quote.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I don't disagree, I'm only saying how Stalla Creasy saw it in relation to your link, I can't see it on catch up to get a more accurate quote.

Sorry my last message didnt come across very well. I felt you didn't agree with her comment . Yes thats an old chestnut the " born in the wrong body " balls. 

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

No one is " born in the wrong body" There are medical anomalies thats all. 

 

How would you know? Are you trans?

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

How would you know? Are you trans?

There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body.  Its ludicrous. 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body.  Its ludicrous. 

How would you know? You were born in the right body.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

How would you know? You were born in the right body.

Because it is the body I am in .  That is who i am. Those claiming to be in the " wrong body" equate gender with the physical form. They have typical harmful stereotypical views of " female" and " male" consists of . 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Because it is the body I am in .  That is who i am. Those claiming to be in the " wrong body" equate gender with the physical form. They have typical harmful stereotypical views of " female" and " male" consists of . 

According to you. Sounds like your views are more harmful TBQH

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

How would you know? You were born in the right body.

Have a read

 

 

No One Is Born in ‘The Wrong Body’ (quillette.com)

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

According to you. Sounds like your views are more harmful TBQH

To summarize, a lack of understanding regarding the distribution of sex-related personality and behavioral differences has led to confusion that impacts children who fall at the extreme tail-ends of the distribution, and who would be statistically more likely to grow up to be gay, lesbian or bisexual adults if allowed to experience uninterrupted puberty. Additionally, telling a child that he or she was born in the wrong body pathologizes “gender non-conforming” behavior and makes gender dysphoria less likely to resolve.

The fact is, no child is actually born in the wrong body. Adults should expand their understanding of what normal male and female behavior and preferences look like—which would lead them to appreciate that being male or female comes with a wider range of personalities preferences, and possibilities than old stereotypes would have us believe.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Have a read

 

 

No One Is Born in ‘The Wrong Body’ (quillette.com)

 

No. Debate your position.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

No. Debate your position.

That article sums up my position. Read it. You might learn something. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

To summarize, a lack of understanding regarding the distribution of sex-related personality and behavioral differences has led to confusion that impacts children who fall at the extreme tail-ends of the distribution, and who would be statistically more likely to grow up to be gay, lesbian or bisexual adults if allowed to experience uninterrupted puberty. Additionally, telling a child that he or she was born in the wrong body pathologizes “gender non-conforming” behavior and makes gender dysphoria less likely to resolve.

The fact is, no child is actually born in the wrong body. Adults should expand their understanding of what normal male and female behavior and preferences look like—which would lead them to appreciate that being male or female comes with a wider range of personalities preferences, and possibilities than old stereotypes would have us believe.

 

Right, an opinion piece. I disagree with that opinion, they can be who they want.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Right, an opinion piece. I disagree with that opinion, they can be who they want.

People have always been able to be who they want to we. We were discussing the harmful concept of saying that they " are born in the wrong body".  They are not. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

People have always been able to be who they want to we. We were discussing the harmful concept of saying that they " are born in the wrong body".  They are not. 

If they say they were, they were

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

If they say they were, they were

Nope . You cannot be born in the wrong body.