“ Doctors “ pub trans row

[graygo]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

Mate, people can identify what ever the hell they want. The western society (uk especially) is wholly accepting and tolerant of it. Most people don’t give a ****.
 

However when a minority community starts threatening the rights of other community’s rights to be who they are then that’s when the brakes must be pulled and discussions had. The trans community seem to be the ones who think their rights are more important thanks womens. 

 

Really? Most of this thread paints the picture that trans rights are less important than women's, especially gay women's.

 

Certain posters on here would say you are wrong with your first point, "people can identify whatever the hell they like", on this page alone the chief protagonist claims that it is obvious how he identifies himself, how is that even possible? 

I met a 15 year old friend of our foster child last night who identifies a a boy despite being born a "girl", they've even changed their name from a "girl's name" to a unisex one, they also have non binary and gender fluid friends, should they only be addressed with the pronouns associated with their sex at birth or would that be disrespectful?

[Taffin]

Just now, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Really? Most of this thread paints the picture that trans rights are less important than women's, especially gay women's.

 

Certain posters on here would say you are wrong with your first point, "people can identify whatever the hell they like", on this page alone the chief protagonist claims that it is obvious how he identifies himself, how is that even possible? 

I met a 15 year old friend of our foster child last night who identifies a a boy despite being born a "girl", they've even changed their name from a "girl's name" to a unisex one, they also have non binary and gender fluid friends, should they only be addressed with the pronouns associated with their sex at birth or would that be disrespectful?

 

You're conflating sex and gender imo.

 

 

[graygo]

13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

well whoop to do for your " non binary foster child." Id suggest he or she thinks about labels and stereotyping as this is what non binary basically is.  Tell him / her male and female sex is immutable . I know it might be so delicate for him/ her to hear but sometimes actual scientific facts are. 

 

And yet you want to be labeled as a gay man rather than just a man. Talk about double standards 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

You're conflating sex and gender imo.

 

Where? I'm not meaning to.

[graygo]

13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

It was fairly obvious which pronoun i was because my name is James.  I still haven't met a woman called James. I'm sure if i was that bothered about my pro nouns I would be making it explicit that i wanted to be referred to as she / her .

 

 

Ignorant of the fact that some people (non binary) identify as neither male or female whether you like or agree with it or not. Oh and they may even be called James 

[graygo]

19 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

well whoop to do for your " non binary foster child." Id suggest he or she thinks about labels and stereotyping as this is what non binary basically is.  Tell him / her male and female sex is immutable . I know it might be so delicate for him/ her to hear but sometimes actual scientific facts are. 

 

By the way, that's possibly the most patronising post on this thread, I won't be passing on your views to them for that reason.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Where? I'm not meaning to.

 

Throughout your posts. You're switching between the terms interchangeably.

 

Hypothetically say I'm a male and I 'feel' as though I'm a female...how would I know that given I've never been a female?

 

Or do I actually feel as though I better fit the gender stereotype of a woman? In which case I can quite happily fulfil that stereotype as a male if I want to. What even would feeling like a woman entail? Are all women the same?

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Throughout your posts. You're switching between the terms interchangeably.

 

Hypothetically say I'm a male and I 'feel' as though I'm a female...how would I know that given I've never been a female?

 

Or do I actually feel as though I better fit the gender stereotype of a woman? In which case I can quite happily fulfil that stereotype as a male if I want to. What even would feeling like a woman entail? Are all women the same?

 

You seem to be making a strong argument for doing away with gender identity. 😄 

 

As for your hypothetical question, I've genuinely no idea.

[Taffin]

Just now, Awbdy Oot said:

 

You seem to be making a strong argument for doing away with gender identity. 😄 

 

As for your hypothetical question, I've genuinely no idea.

 

I'm entirely in favour of doing away with gender identity. It's a divisive and stupid social construct imo, as such I can't understand why anyone would be bothered by what pronoun someone else calls them unless they've decided themselves to link that pronoun to saying some about them beyond what sex they are...which is just not offensive in any way imo.

 

[AlimOzturk]

There are male/female saunas and changing rooms at the gym I go to. I feel like I am a girl so today so ill walk in and use the girls ones. See how that goes down. 
 

If anyone denies me this right I’ll kick off big style and claim my rights are being denied. 
 

is that how this works?

[graygo]

18 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

There are male/female saunas and changing rooms at the gym I go to. I feel like I am a girl so today so ill walk in and use the girls ones. See how that goes down. 
 

If anyone denies me this right I’ll kick off big style and claim my rights are being denied. 
 

is that how this works?

 

Trivialising gender identity does you no favours.

 

Things are changing whether us dinosaurs like it or not.

 

https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/19876649.musselburgh-grammar-school-pupils-said-unhappy-decision-make-new-toilets-primarily-male-female/

[JudyJudyJudy]

35 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Throughout your posts. You're switching between the terms interchangeably.

 

Hypothetically say I'm a male and I 'feel' as though I'm a female...how would I know that given I've never been a female?

 

Or do I actually feel as though I better fit the gender stereotype of a woman? In which case I can quite happily fulfil that stereotype as a male if I want to. What even would feeling like a woman entail? Are all women the same?

Nail on the head Taffin. I've said this all the way through this thread. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

28 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

There are male/female saunas and changing rooms at the gym I go to. I feel like I am a girl so today so ill walk in and use the girls ones. See how that goes down. 
 

If anyone denies me this right I’ll kick off big style and claim my rights are being denied. 
 

is that how this works?

Yep. 

[Ron Burgundy]

As Alan Partridge said " It's just confusing ".

 

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yep. 

 

In what way is that how it works? 

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Nail on the head Taffin. I've said this all the way through this thread. 

 

You've not said any of that. Or at least I've never seen it which would be strange seeing as you've apparently said it all the way through the thread.

Got a link to where you asked how you would know that you feel like a woman when you've never been one?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Awbdy Oot said:

 

In what way is that how it works? 

Look your just looking to be contrary and argumentative today. Very in fact. All these issues have been discussed countless times on this thread. I'm not pandering to you.  im sure your view might change if your foster child comes home with a black eye is he is a he,  and decided he wanted to go into the girls changing room to change and  the female occupants didn't take too kindly to that. A sharp lesson in reality as opposed to fantasy ideology. I'm not advocating violence but what im advocating is reality as opposed to fantasy thinking. Invading women's only spaces  ( and I mean biologically born women ) will not end well. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

You've not said any of that. Or at least I've never seen it which would be strange seeing as you've apparently said it all the way through the thread.

Got a link to where you asked how you would know that you feel like a woman when you've never been one?

well i cant feel like a woman because im not a woman. theres your answer. 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Look your just looking to be contrary and argumentative today. Very in fact. All these issues have been discussed countless times on this thread. I'm not pandering to you.  im sure your view might change if your foster child comes home with a black eye is he is a he,  and decided he wanted to go into the girls changing room to change and  the female occupants didn't take too kindly to that. A sharp lesson in reality as opposed to fantasy ideology. I'm not advocating violence but what im advocating is reality as opposed to fantasy thinking. Invading women's only spaces  ( and I mean biologically born women ) will not end well. 

 

What a pity you never opened the link I posted above, it would show you up for the ignorant dinosaur that you are. This is the reality, the future, whether you agree with it or not.

 

Here is the link again, do yourself a favour and open it and see that the next generation thankfully have a more liberated attitude than you.

 

https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/19876649.musselburgh-grammar-school-pupils-said-unhappy-decision-make-new-toilets-primarily-male-female/

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

well i cant feel like a woman because im not a woman. theres your answer. 

 

Absolute bullcrap. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Absolute bullcrap. 

your in fantasy island . absolutely deluded.  enjoy. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Kathleen Stock: 'I won't be bullied into submission' (holyrood.com)

[JudyJudyJudy]

Kathleen Stock: 'I won't be bullied into submission' (holyrood.com)

 

 

It just seemed exactly the kind of issue we should be involved in, something to really think about and discuss. The idea that a person’s inner ‘gender identity’, a feeling of being, should take precedence over their biological sex, that made no intellectual sense to me. The whole premise of philosophy is to find a logical, consistent, practically applicable position and this was none of those things, but people didn’t want to go anywhere near it.”

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by JamesM48

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

your in fantasy island . absolutely deluded.  enjoy. 

 

You keep wallowing in your marginalisation, you love it. Keep on loving it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

You keep wallowing in your marginalisation, you love it. Keep on loving it.

What a terribly intolerant and insensitive thing to say to someone. Shocking really. Wildly inaccurate too. 

 

Anyway your on block now as I've decided to do that with some on this due to their incessant trolling. Life is too short to deal with people like you, Im not wasted my energy. 

 

TO others if your not blocked it must be : 

 

a)  I actually think your a decent person

b) You argue respectfully and coherently without resorting to cheap insults 

c)  I tend to agree with many of your views on a range of topics 

d) I like your sense of humour. 

e) You can annoy me but I find something interesting about you enough not to block. 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by JamesM48

[graygo]

13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

What a terribly intolerant and insensitive thing to say to someone. Shocking really. Wildly inaccurate too. 

 

 

It was in reply to this 

 

34 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

your in fantasy island . absolutely deluded.  enjoy. 

 

Off the scale.

 

 

[AlimOzturk]

2 hours ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Trivialising gender identity does you no favours.

 

Things are changing whether us dinosaurs like it or not.

 

https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/19876649.musselburgh-grammar-school-pupils-said-unhappy-decision-make-new-toilets-primarily-male-female/

Forget about toilets for a second then and let’s concentrate on prisons. Should these be gender neutral as well?  
 

What about sports? Should transgender men be allowed to completely dominate female sports? 
 

That’s the angle your pushing here chap. It’s a dangerous path we are going down here and women in the main will be the ones negatively impacted by this the most. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by AlimOzturk

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Forget about toilets for a second then and let’s concentrate on prisons. Should these be gender neutral as well?  
 

What about sports? Should transgender men be allowed to completely dominate female sports? 
 

That’s the angle your pushing here chap. It’s a dangerous path we are going down here and women in the main will be the ones negatively impacted by this the most. 

 

That's not the angle I'm pushing at all.

 

I don't pretend to have the answers but denying it's a real thing doesn't help. 

 

Where would you house a prisoner who identifies as a female but was born a male or a born female who now identifies as a male? 

 

No I don't think transgender sportspeople should be able to compete in gender specific sports competitively.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:

Forget about toilets for a second then and let’s concentrate on prisons. Should these be gender neutral as well?  
 

What about sports? Should transgender men be allowed to completely dominate female sports? 
 

That’s the angle your pushing here chap. It’s a dangerous path we are going down here and women in the main will be the ones negatively impacted by this the most. 

There’s an easy solution to all that . Have trans specific places/ events  ? And your rights it’s women yet again who suffer the most due to the appeasement of fantasy / magical thinking . 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

There’s an easy solution to all that . Have trans specific places/ events  ? And your rights it’s women yet again who suffer the most due to the appeasement of fantasy / magical thinking . 

 

"Appeasement of fantasy/magical thinking" what a crass, ignorant thing to say about a minority group, one that is part of the same umbrella group that fights your corner. 

Disgusting actually. 

[AlimOzturk]

1 hour ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

That's not the angle I'm pushing at all.

 

I don't pretend to have the answers but denying it's a real thing doesn't help. 

 

Where would you house a prisoner who identifies as a female but was born a male or a born female who now identifies as a male? 

 

No I don't think transgender sportspeople should be able to compete in gender specific sports competitively.

Trans people want to be fully accepted into society. Fair enough, if I was trans I probably would want to be as well. 
 

A trans man (female to male) wants to be fully accepted as a man. They don’t want to be seen as any different to any other man. 
 

A trans women (male to female) same as above. 

 

Then you have non binary, or gender fluid which adds a whole other layer of complexity to it. 
 

I honestly don’t have a problem accepting these people for who they are. 
 

However I don’t know how you can accommodate these peoples rights to be accepted as male/female/non binary without actually infringing on the rights of women. They WILL want to compete In their chosen gender sports, they WILL want to go to female prisons if they break the law, they will want to use their genders changing rooms and toilets. 
 

I don’t have all the answers but I do know is womens rights should not suffer so another groups can flourish. That isn’t fair or proper. 
 

 

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Trans people want to be fully accepted into society. Fair enough, if I was trans I probably would want to be as well. 
 

A trans man (female to male) wants to be fully accepted as a man. They don’t want to be seen as any different to any other man. 
 

A trans women (male to female) same as above. 

 

Then you have non binary, or gender fluid which adds a whole other layer of complexity to it. 
 

I honestly don’t have a problem accepting these people for who they are. 
 

However I don’t know how you can accommodate these peoples rights to be accepted as male/female/non binary without actually infringing on the rights of women. They WILL want to compete In their chosen gender sports, they WILL want to go to female prisons if they break the law, they will want to use their genders changing rooms and toilets. 
 

I don’t have all the answers but I do know is womens rights should not suffer so another groups can flourish. That isn’t fair or proper. 
 

 

Don't let them compete in their chosen gender sports, have gender neutral prisons, have gender neutral changing rooms and toilets. What women's rights are affected if we do these things?

[doctor jambo]

5 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

Forget about toilets for a second then and let’s concentrate on prisons. Should these be gender neutral as well?  
 

What about sports? Should transgender men be allowed to completely dominate female sports? 
 

That’s the angle your pushing here chap. It’s a dangerous path we are going down here and women in the main will be the ones negatively impacted by this the most. 

Your shouting in the dark- as those views can be decried as bigoted, and thus silenced.

Honestly we should all have single toilets and changing cubicles for basic privacy .

My concern is that we are carrying out experimental medical and surgical procedures on children, many of them with autism.

why we allow the mutilation of children who may, or may not change their minds is beyond me.

And why everyone seems to think they have a “right “ to pick a pronoun is beyond me.

every time I hear “I’ve got rights” I automatically think they’re  both bonkers, and wrong .

Our society allows you to dress how you want, marry who you want, work any job you want, shag who you want and not be descriminated against.

Seemingly that’s not enough, they seem to want it all their own way.

Well, that’s not life .

As a hetero male id like to use the womens changing rooms, but I have a cock, so it’s a no. And I have enough RESPECT for women to understand that and honour it.

I can respect the trans people too, though do wish they would show the same respect to other views.

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Your shouting in the dark- as those views can be decried as bigoted, and thus silenced.

Honestly we should all have single toilets and changing cubicles for basic privacy .

My concern is that we are carrying out experimental medical and surgical procedures on children, many of them with autism.

why we allow the mutilation of children who may, or may not change their minds is beyond me.

And why everyone seems to think they have a “right “ to pick a pronoun is beyond me.

every time I hear “I’ve got rights” I automatically think they’re  both bonkers, and wrong .

Our society allows you to dress how you want, marry who you want, work any job you want, shag who you want and not be descriminated against.

Seemingly that’s not enough, they seem to want it all their own way.

Well, that’s not life .

As a hetero male id like to use the womens changing rooms, but I have a cock, so it’s a no. And I have enough RESPECT for women to understand that and honour it.

I can respect the trans people too, though do wish they would show the same respect to other views.

Good posting. I also have concerns around the vulnerability of children and their supposed trans identity. There is evidence to suggest that some  gay and lesbian children ( teenagers) are actually being swayed to thinking they are maybe trans as they cannot tolerate or reconcile the fact they may be gay or lesbian. it seems being the " opposite sex" is preferable to being an gay or lesbian in a " homophobic" adult life.. Therefore some are lured into thinking they are trans.  Those vulnerable people need validation about their sexual orientation and guidance and not be told by professionals they might be trans.   Surely if they believe themselves to be trans they don't need others to point this out. ? 

[Tazio]

The prison thing always throws up the question of a trans woman in a female prison but rarely trans men in male prison. There are a couple of part time workers in my place of employment who are trans men. The idea of either of them in prison is a horrific thought as they wouldn’t survive a week without some sort of unpleasantness. The male to female sorts seem to big the headlines and make the most noise. One theory being you can change your gender but don’t lose a sense of male privilege.

[Des Lynam]

20 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

Forget about toilets for a second then and let’s concentrate on prisons. Should these be gender neutral as well?  
 

What about sports? Should transgender men be allowed to completely dominate female sports? 
 

That’s the angle your pushing here chap. It’s a dangerous path we are going down here and women in the main will be the ones negatively impacted by this the most. 

Good post. Thankfully those like JK Rowling have the courage to stand up to views that are going to trample all over women’s rights. 

 

14 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Your shouting in the dark- as those views can be decried as bigoted, and thus silenced.

Honestly we should all have single toilets and changing cubicles for basic privacy .

My concern is that we are carrying out experimental medical and surgical procedures on children, many of them with autism.

why we allow the mutilation of children who may, or may not change their minds is beyond me.

And why everyone seems to think they have a “right “ to pick a pronoun is beyond me.

every time I hear “I’ve got rights” I automatically think they’re  both bonkers, and wrong .

Our society allows you to dress how you want, marry who you want, work any job you want, shag who you want and not be descriminated against.

Seemingly that’s not enough, they seem to want it all their own way.

Well, that’s not life .

As a hetero male id like to use the womens changing rooms, but I have a cock, so it’s a no. And I have enough RESPECT for women to understand that and honour it.

I can respect the trans people too, though do wish they would show the same respect to other views.

This. 
Honest and forthright post. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

The prison thing always throws up the question of a trans woman in a female prison but rarely trans men in male prison. There are a couple of part time workers in my place of employment who are trans men. The idea of either of them in prison is a horrific thought as they wouldn’t survive a week without some sort of unpleasantness. The male to female sorts seem to big the headlines and make the most noise. One theory being you can change your gender but don’t lose a sense of male privilege.

Also men far outweigh women offenders and prisoners so naturally that would be the same with trans despite apparently them being “ born in the wrong body “ 

[doctor jambo]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Also men far outweigh women offenders and prisoners so naturally that would be the same with trans despite apparently them being “ born in the wrong body “ 

The issue is disparity in sex drive which is testosterone driven.

as we cis males know, it is a lifetime chained to a barely controllable monster.

Women cannot understand that.

Having a penised female in a female setting seems like a recipe for disaster.

perhaps the solution is that when the trans path is taken , until your genitals are removed ( they don’t need them, as useless as an appendix, and a reminder of a male form they both deny and are trying to escape) and testosterone is reduced to female levels- then and only then are they changed, and only then as an adult, in absence of diagnosed mental illness.

as an adolescent you are not capable of such things.

when did we surrender proper counselling and the like for surgery?

Hippocratic oath - “do no harm”

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

The issue is disparity in sex drive which is testosterone driven.

as we cis males know, it is a lifetime chained to a barely controllable monster.

Women cannot understand that.

Having a penised female in a female setting seems like a recipe for disaster.

perhaps the solution is that when the trans path is taken , until your genitals are removed ( they don’t need them, as useless as an appendix, and a reminder of a male form they both deny and are trying to escape) and testosterone is reduced to female levels- then and only then are they changed, and only then as an adult, in absence of diagnosed mental illness.

as an adolescent you are not capable of such things.

when did we surrender proper counselling and the like for surgery?

Hippocratic oath - “do no harm”

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

[hughesie27]

I see we are at the sharing of fake meme posts stage of the debate. 

Will check back in a couple of months when the next celeb comes out as Trans.

Edited February 8, 2022 by hughesie27

[Sarah O]

3 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

I see we are at the sharing of fake meme posts stage of the debate. 

Will check back in a couple of months when the next celeb comes out as Trans.

Instead of the annual dead-pool we should start a Trans-pool. 

 

I reckon Prince Andrew may become Princess Andrea when he's sentenced to the gaol. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Taffin]

On 02/02/2022 at 10:56, Taffin said:

Decouple pronouns from gender and instead align it to sex and the problem is solved imo.

 

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Me and Colin Wright appear to be on the same page.

 

Really good article which articulates my thoughts on it well.

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Me and Colin Wright appear to be on the same page.

 

Really good article which articulates my thoughts on it well.

Same here Taffin. Its excellent. 

[Mikey1874]

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

well said Joanna. And doesnt that say everything about the militants in the trans lobby. Basically wanting to defund the Human Rights commission 

[JudyJudyJudy]

" She" 😡

 

 

Scot flashed penis and used sex toy in public leaving onlookers shocked - Daily Record

 

 

[moogsy]

19 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

" She" 😡

 

 

Scot flashed penis and used sex toy in public leaving onlookers shocked - Daily Record

 

 

And if the SNP and Greens get their way regarding the Gender Recognition Act, people like ‘her’ would be sent to a female prison 🤨.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, moogsy said:

And if the SNP and Greens get their way regarding the Gender Recognition Act, people like ‘her’ would be sent to a female prison 🤨.

I know. Its so concerning . It also artificially inflates to stats for sex offenders. ie " she " will be put down as female on the stats .