“ Doctors “ pub trans row

[The Dragon Reborn]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Like I said you still haven’t a clue what he said .  Russia re freedom of speech 

What are you on about? 😂🤷🏻‍♂️ I’m totally free to watch the video if I want to. I’m choosing not to as I find his opinions in general to be pretty vile. His views on the trans issue may well be the same as my own but I have zero time for him.
 

If you want to plant your flag on the hill of defending misogynists and bigots then fire away. Each to their own 👍🏻

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, The Dragon Reborn said:

What are you on about? 😂🤷🏻‍♂️ I’m totally free to watch the video if I want to. I’m choosing not to as I find his opinions in general to be pretty vile. His views on the trans issue may well be the same as my own but I have zero time for him.
 

If you want to plant your flag on the hill of defending misogynists and bigots then fire away. Each to their own 👍🏻

I’m not defending him . I’m defending his view about this issue which I agree with ! There is a difference . Just like how I feel about Julia Hartley Brewer and other . Some of their views I agree with but mostly I don’t . 

[The Dragon Reborn]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

I’m not defending him . I’m defending his view about this issue which I agree with ! There is a difference . Just like how I feel about Julia Hartley Brewer and other . Some of their views I agree with but mostly I don’t . 

Each to their own. 👍🏻

[JudyJudyJudy]

This 

 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Worlds gone crazy when reality is denied 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

👍👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

Incredible . Wow...Actually great to see. Common sense at  last. 

 

 

 

Exclusive: Labour MP breaks rank and declares 'a man has a penis and a woman has vagina' (gbnews.uk)

[New Town Loafer]

26 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Incredible . Wow...Actually great to see. Common sense at  last. 

 

 

 

Exclusive: Labour MP breaks rank and declares 'a man has a penis and a woman has vagina' (gbnews.uk)

Saw that as well, fair play to him. Sad reality is that he will now be condemned as a terf/bigot/transphobe. All terms that one should wear with pride in this instance.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

Saw that as well, fair play to him. Sad reality is that he will now be condemned as a terf/bigot/transphobe. All terms that one should wear with pride in this instance.

Yes good on him.  Might give his colleagues the courage and im said to say the word " courage " to state the same fact. But the more the better.  

[Ron Burgundy]

6 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

Saw that as well, fair play to him. Sad reality is that he will now be condemned as a terf/bigot/transphobe. All terms that one should wear with pride in this instance.

Probably just chucked away his career for stating a fact. Sad times.

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Probably just chucked away his career for stating a fact. Sad times.

Hopefully not as the narrative is changing I feel . 

[Dawnrazor]

20 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Hopefully not as the narrative is changing I feel . 

Here's hoping it is.

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, New Town Loafer said:

Saw that as well, fair play to him. Sad reality is that he will now be condemned as a terf/bigot/transphobe. All terms that one should wear with pride in this instance.

 

He might be ok. The militant trans mob are busy cancelling themselves on twitter because they don't like Elon Musk.

 

 

[A Boy Named Crow]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Incredible . Wow...Actually great to see. Common sense at  last. 

 

 

 

Exclusive: Labour MP breaks rank and declares 'a man has a penis and a woman has vagina' (gbnews.uk)

Getting a definition is good,  but it's pretty clumsy. By referring to the wedding tackle, it makes it overly emotive and problematic. Bangers can be cut off, so by this ^^^ definition, a guy who has had a bangerectomy would not be a man. Would that make him a woman?

 

Maybe chromosomes,  and combinations thereof would be a less tricky definition?

[graygo]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Incredible . Wow...Actually great to see. Common sense at  last. 

 

 

 

Exclusive: Labour MP breaks rank and declares 'a man has a penis and a woman has vagina' (gbnews.uk)

 

Thinks it's ok to ask someone if they have a penis or vagina but is outraged at the notion of asking if someone has been vaccinated. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Getting a definition is good,  but it's pretty clumsy. By referring to the wedding tackle, it makes it overly emotive and problematic. Bangers can be cut off, so by this ^^^ definition, a guy who has had a bangerectomy would not be a man. Would that make him a woman?

 

Maybe chromosomes,  and combinations thereof would be a less tricky definition?

Do you actually need to be told what a man or woman is ? Really ?? We all know what a man or woman is . Just some are now scared to say it . A man or woman are born male or female ..it’s immutable . 

Edited April 27, 2022 by JamesM48

[A Boy Named Crow]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Do you actually need to be told what a man or woman is ? Really ?? 

Nah, the whole post was really just a vehicle to socialise the use of "bangerectomy"...

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Do you actually need to be told what a man or woman is ? Really ?? We all know what a man or woman is . Just some are now scared to say it . A man or woman are born male or female ..it’s immutable . 

 

It's not immutable. Ever heard of a hermaphrodite?

What toilets do these people use in your black and white world?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, A Boy Named Crow said:

Nah, the whole post was really just a vehicle to socialise the use of "bangerectomy"...

I do get your point though . So basically I would say a man or woman are born at birth as male or female irrespective if a man loses his knackers etc 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Someone do me a favour and tell that person I ignore that using the straw man arguments of hermaphrodite  is faintly ludicrous . It is a tiny minority of a Minority . He’s just not getting it so clinging on to anything and ignoring science and biology . Cheers 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Someone do me a favour and tell that person I ignore that using the straw man arguments of hermaphrodite  is faintly ludicrous . It is a tiny minority of a Minority . He’s just not getting it so clinging on to anything and ignoring science and biology . Cheers 

 

Look up the meaning of that big word you used, immutable. Then accept that you are using it incorrectly and stop using it.

You cannot say something is immutable apart from a minority, well you can but someone will probably come along and point out the absurdity of it.

 

Also, no need to get someone else to tell me anything, man up and tell me yourself. Apologies if "man up" is deemed sexist.

 

James, I make no apologies for it but almost everything you post on almost every subject gets on my tits, you are a narrow minded, self interested, self opinionated clown who thinks that every thread should be about rejoicing in the fact that you are out the closet. The truth is that nobody cares!!

 

Thread ban incoming in 5...4....3....

[Ron Burgundy]

30 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

It's not immutable. Ever heard of a hermaphrodite?

What toilets do these people use in your black and white world?

I think that those born hermaphrodite are probably the only people on earth who should be able to choose whether they want to be a man or a woman.

 

Everyone else is assigned a definitive sex at birth. That cannot be changed regardless of mutilating your body and/or taking drugs IMO.

 

Anyone should be free to live how they choose but expecting sane people to accept a man who has had a sex change is an actual woman is batshit crazy.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I think that those born hermaphrodite are probably the only people on earth who should be able to choose whether they want to be a man or a woman.

 

Everyone else is assigned a definitive sex at birth. That cannot be changed regardless of mutilating your body and/or taking drugs IMO.

 

Anyone should be free to live how they choose but expecting sane people to accept a man who has had a sex change is an actual woman is batshit crazy.

👍👍👍👍

[Don Dan]

39 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I do get your point though . So basically I would say a man or woman are born at birth as male or female irrespective if a man loses his knackers etc 

Eunuchs ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I think that those born hermaphrodite are probably the only people on earth who should be able to choose whether they want to be a man or a woman.

 

Everyone else is assigned a definitive sex at birth. That cannot be changed regardless of mutilating your body and/or taking drugs IMO.

 

Anyone should be free to live how they choose but expecting sane people to accept a man who has had a sex change is an actual woman is batshit crazy.

That’s it in a nutshell , well nuts shell ! 
 

It’s about the principle of truth and fact . You have stated a fact in your last sentence but we now have a group of people who are delusional ( I’m being kind ) who want us to  join in with their delusion . No thanks . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Imaman said:

Eunuchs ? 

Munchkins ? 

[graygo]

4 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I think that those born hermaphrodite are probably the only people on earth who should be able to choose whether they want to be a man or a woman.

 

Everyone else is assigned a definitive sex at birth. That cannot be changed regardless of mutilating your body and/or taking drugs IMO.

 

Anyone should be free to live how they choose but expecting sane people to accept a man who has had a sex change is an actual woman is batshit crazy.

 

That person should be viewed as a woman imo, if that makes me batshit crazy then so be it.

[graygo]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

That’s it in a nutshell , well nuts shell ! 
 

It’s about the principle of truth and fact . You have stated a fact in your last sentence but we now have a group of people who are delusional ( I’m being kind ) who want us to  join in with their delusion . No thanks . 

 

You wouldn't treat a man who had undergone a sex change as a woman? Pretty sure you've said otherwise before.

[Taffin]

4 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I think that those born hermaphrodite are probably the only people on earth who should be able to choose whether they want to be a man or a woman.

 

Everyone else is assigned a definitive sex at birth. That cannot be changed regardless of mutilating your body and/or taking drugs IMO.

 

Anyone should be free to live how they choose but expecting sane people to accept a man who has had a sex change is an actual woman is batshit crazy.

 

I'd accept them (and anyone for that matter) as a woman if they wanted to be viewed as one and met the imagined criteria to be a 'woman'.

 

Female? That's a bit more complex.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Taffin

[JudyJudyJudy]

47 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'd accept them (and anyone for that matter) as a woman if they wanted to be viewed as one and met the imagined criteria to be a 'woman'.

 

Female? That's a bit more complex.

 

A woman is an adult female human. Prior to adulthood, a female human is referred to as a girl. The plural women is sometimes used in certain phrases such as "women's rights" to denote female humans

[Taffin]

16 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

A woman is an adult female human. Prior to adulthood, a female human is referred to as a girl. The plural women is sometimes used in certain phrases such as "women's rights" to denote female humans

 

That's one definition, yes. I roll with the view of the WHO and the ONS on sex Vs gender. Women describes a gender imo.

 

Anyone going out of their way to not recognise someone who identifies as a different gender is being a bit of a dick imo. 

 

It's a totally different thing from the argument about female sports and safe spaces.

 

 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

25 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's one definition, yes. I roll with the view of the WHO and the ONS on sex Vs gender. Women describes a gender imo.

 

Anyone going out of their way to not recognise someone who identifies as a different gender is being a bit of a dick imo. 

 

It's a totally different thing from the argument about female sports and safe spaces.

 

 

 

 

 

Sex and gender are two different things . They have deliberately conflated by the militant trans lobby to sow seeds of confusion . It seems to have worked. Not saying you are confused . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

27 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's one definition, yes. I roll with the view of the WHO and the ONS on sex Vs gender. Women describes a gender imo.

 

Anyone going out of their way to not recognise someone who identifies as a different gender is being a bit of a dick imo. 

 

It's a totally different thing from the argument about female sports and safe spaces.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok you can say whatever gender you believe yourself to be , that’s subjective . But you cannot change sex . If a biological man says they are of the female gender , go ahead with it , but I’d like to explain what a female is then 

[graygo]

14 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Ok you can say whatever gender you believe yourself to be , that’s subjective . But you cannot change sex . If a biological man says they are of the female gender , go ahead with it , but I’d like to explain what a female is then 

 

Mumbo jumbo I think it was you called it earlier, is that another about turn from the human roundabout?

[JudyJudyJudy]

33 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Mumbo jumbo I think it was you called it earlier, is that another about turn from the human roundabout?

No turn around from me at all . If someone says they are the opposite gender from their sex , let them believe it but don’t force me to believe it . Haven’t  you understood the difference between sex and gender ? Do you actually know what gender is. ? It’s based on peusdo science mumbo jumbo based on stereotypes of what a woman and man are. . 

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

No turn around from me at all . If someone says they are the opposite gender from their sex , let them believe it but don’t force me to believe it . Haven’t  you understood the difference between sex and gender ? Do you actually know what gender is. ? It’s based on peusdo science mumbo jumbo based on stereotypes of what a woman and man are. . 

 

I refer you to @Taffin's post a few above this which pretty much states that the WHO and the ONS reckon it's you who hasn't a clue what gender is.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

I refer you to @Taffin's post a few above this which pretty much states that the WHO and the ONS reckon it's you who hasn't a clue what gender is.

Nope your wrong . My point in all of this is no one can change sex . Therefore a man cannot say he is a woman and vice Versa. However they can think they are a different gender to their sex . Think being the operative word . You haven’t a clue . Really . Anyway I’ll waste no more time on you as it’s like a revolving door 🚪 with you. 

[XB52]

7 hours ago, graygo said:

 

Look up the meaning of that big word you used, immutable. Then accept that you are using it incorrectly and stop using it.

You cannot say something is immutable apart from a minority, well you can but someone will probably come along and point out the absurdity of it.

 

Also, no need to get someone else to tell me anything, man up and tell me yourself. Apologies if "man up" is deemed sexist.

 

James, I make no apologies for it but almost everything you post on almost every subject gets on my tits, you are a narrow minded, self interested, self opinionated clown who thinks that every thread should be about rejoicing in the fact that you are out the closet. The truth is that nobody cares!!

 

Thread ban incoming in 5...4....3....

What a great post, sums Mr u turn up perfectly 

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Nope your wrong . My point in all of this is no one can change sex . Therefore a man cannot say he is a woman and vice Versa. However they can think they are a different gender to their sex . Think being the operative word . You haven’t a clue . Really . Anyway I’ll waste no more time on you as it’s like a revolving door 🚪 with you. 

 

So you admit that people are free to identify whatever gender the feel they are but you just point blank refuse to accept their wishes. 

 

Hopefully @Taffin doesn't mind me quoting his earlier comment but it's worthy of being repeated.

 

"Anyone going out of their way to not recognise someone who identifies as a different gender is being a bit of a dick imo"

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, graygo said:

 

So you admit that people are free to identify whatever gender the feel they are but you just point blank refuse to accept their wishes. 

 

Hopefully @Taffin doesn't mind me quoting his earlier comment but it's worthy of being repeated.

 

"Anyone going out of their way to not recognise someone who identifies as a different gender is being a bit of a dick imo"

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

The important words “ rather than depending on reality itself “ that’s the crucial bit . May be too complex for you to understand though . Therefore gender is not “ fact “ it’s based on peoples perceptions . 

Edited April 27, 2022 by JamesM48

[JudyJudyJudy]

I rest my case ! 

[CF11JamTart]

Happy to be shot down, but... 

 

Sex = what is hardwired in to your chromosomes. It's like the word Blackpool in a stick of rock. 

 

Gender = how your live your life in relation to societal norms, stereotypes and architypes.

 

If someone who is sex = F want to live life as a male gender, they should be absolutely free to do so.

 

But all the controversy is around people who are sex = M who identify as female. 

 

This is also obscuring the statistic that there is an increase in sex = F who are suffering from body dismorphia and are considering the world of puberty blockers and irreversible surgery. Why are these young women (by sex) struggling with their bodies? What's the societal pressure that's causing this? What can society and medical profession do to support them in their decision-making? 

 

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

The important words “ rather than depending on reality itself “ that’s the crucial bit . May be too complex for you to understand though . Therefore gender is not “ fact “ it’s based on peoples perceptions . 

 

Social construction is a thing, it is a thing accepted by society (well the sane ones within that society) You cannot claim that a social construct doesn't exist because it isn't a "fact" that displays an ignorance as to what a social construction actually is. 

 

A social construct is something that exists not in objective reality, but as a result of human interaction. It exists because humans agree that it exists."

 

Too complex for you?

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

22 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Social construction is a thing, it is a thing accepted by society (well the sane ones within that society) You cannot claim that a social construct doesn't exist because it isn't a "fact" that displays an ignorance as to what a social construction actually is. 

 

A social construct is something that exists not in objective reality, but as a result of human interaction. It exists because humans agree that it exists."

 

Too complex for you?

 

 

 

It’s not fact . As I’m science . That’s fact . Biology is fact . 

[graygo]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

It’s not fact . As I’m science . That’s fact . Biology is fact . 

 

So it is too complex for you then.

 

"It exists because humans agree that it exists."

 

[A Boy Named Crow]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

So you admit that people are free to identify whatever gender the feel they are but you just point blank refuse to accept their wishes. 

 

Hopefully @Taffin doesn't mind me quoting his earlier comment but it's worthy of being repeated.

 

"Anyone going out of their way to not recognise someone who identifies as a different gender is being a bit of a dick imo"

It is interesting though.  If your mate Dave decides to identify as a woman and go by the name Susan, it's only good manners to call him Susan going forward, and probably a friendly thing to use female pronouns too.

 

Has Dave actually become a woman though? This is where people get all shouty and fall out over it. I'd say no, Susan is a man who identifies as a woman. Its not a judgement on whether or not it's cool for Dave / Susan to dress like a woman etc, but there has to be a line for things like sport, communal changing rooms, employment quotas etc. For all those items I've just mentioned, it wouldn't feel right that Dave / Susan could bw able claim to be a woman. 

 

I take James' point that a lot of the notion of "wrong gender" comes from rigid and arbitrary ideas of what it is to be a man or woman. I'd say that is what we need to fix as a society. If a boy likes wearing dresses, he should feel ok about that.  But we also need to be careful about the rights of others. Women should be able to be women without having to share that world with men who don't fit the stereotype of what it is to be a man. 

 

We're going to end up with trans changing rooms and trans categories in sport etc, it's the only way to square it. 

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

It is interesting though.  If your mate Dave decides to identify as a woman and go by the name Susan, it's only good manners to call him Susan going forward, and probably a friendly thing to use female pronouns too.

 

Has Dave actually become a woman though? This is where people get all shouty and fall out over it. I'd say no, Susan is a man who identifies as a woman. Its not a judgement on whether or not it's cool for Dave / Susan to dress like a woman etc, but there has to be a line for things like sport, communal changing rooms, employment quotas etc. For all those items I've just mentioned, it wouldn't feel right that Dave / Susan could bw able claim to be a woman. 

 

I take James' point that a lot of the notion of "wrong gender" comes from rigid and arbitrary ideas of what it is to be a man or woman. I'd say that is what we need to fix as a society. If a boy likes wearing dresses, he should feel ok about that.  But we also need to be careful about the rights of others. Women should be able to be women without having to share that world with men who don't fit the stereotype of what it is to be a man. 

 

We're going to end up with trans changing rooms and trans categories in sport etc, it's the only way to square it. 

 

I agree with all that bold bit.

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

It is interesting though.  If your mate Dave decides to identify as a woman and go by the name Susan, it's only good manners to call him Susan going forward, and probably a friendly thing to use female pronouns too.

 

Has Dave actually become a woman though? This is where people get all shouty and fall out over it. I'd say no, Susan is a man who identifies as a woman. Its not a judgement on whether or not it's cool for Dave / Susan to dress like a woman etc, but there has to be a line for things like sport, communal changing rooms, employment quotas etc. For all those items I've just mentioned, it wouldn't feel right that Dave / Susan could bw able claim to be a woman. 

 

I take James' point that a lot of the notion of "wrong gender" comes from rigid and arbitrary ideas of what it is to be a man or woman. I'd say that is what we need to fix as a society. If a boy likes wearing dresses, he should feel ok about that.  But we also need to be careful about the rights of others. Women should be able to be women without having to share that world with men who don't fit the stereotype of what it is to be a man. 

 

We're going to end up with trans changing rooms and trans categories in sport etc, it's the only way to square it. 

Good points there . As noted the rigid and an arbitrary ideas of “ gender” are the issue for me . It stereotypes and perpetuates sometimes harmful labels . A man can wear a dress , not an issue about that.  It’s a man wearing a dress . A dress is a social construct of what society has said women wear . However it does not mean the man wearing the dress is a female / woman . Same goes for a biological man saying he “ feels “ like a women . This is impossible 

[Robbies right hand man]

9 hours ago, graygo said:

 

It's not immutable. Ever heard of a hermaphrodite?

What toilets do these people use in your black and white world?

sorry mate - seems you’re slightly misinformed regarding that.

 

“In recent years the term hermaphrodite applied to humans has fallen out of favor since there have been no identified cases of a human reproducing as both male and female,^[10] with some biologists saying hermaphroditism cannot occur in humans.^[11][12] Intersex activists have preferred the word intersex, since the word hermaphrodite is considered to be stigmatizing,^{[13][14][15][16]} as well as "scientifically specious and clinically problematic."^[17]