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Dawnrazor
10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I lived abroad last time. The outcome of that vote had all sorts of implications, my pensions, citizenship, ability to work, potential taxes, healthcare, ability to return etc.

 

I think citizens abroad should be allowed a vote.

I completely agree with you, my family live and work, my son has been schooled in England, in England but we have all our family in Scotland, a house in Scotland and intend to move back when we think it's financially viable. 

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Dirk McClaymore
24 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

We need more horrifying posts about indy imo🤣

 

:muggy:

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jonesy
15 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Haha.......I don't the answers are quite what they will be looking for. They didn't even have to consider the hard border with England last time.

 

Here's my tuppence worth. There's not going to be another referendum, so it's all a bit moot but anyways....

 

If the shambles of Brexit has told us anything, it's not to repeat the same mistake twice.

 

So why not negotiate the terms of the break up of the UK first before having a vote. All the assets and liabilities, currency, pensions, border control, defence and everything else involved.

 

Then stick in a prospectus with a future vision, and we can all vote on if we fancy it or not?

Unfortunately, the hard lifting of the negotiations would detract from the drama of the campaigning, meaning neither side would be likely to be keen on a detailed and honest roadmap for the eventuality of yes winning. 
 

You’re parallels with Brexit are very apt. A yes vote here would be a massive leap into the unknown, especially if Johnson and his merry band of *******s were still in charge. Very irresponsible from the yes side given the years of uncertainty we are currently navigating. It’s like starting Jamie Mole up front v AEK - could be a maverick stroke of genius but far more likely to lead to a lot of hindsight merchants doing a roaring trade in the subsequent years.

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Japan Jambo
1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

But there's three quarters of a million Scots born here but living in England, Wales and NI too. 

 

Doesn't sound the smartest move to have made the vote only for people who were born in Scotland.

 

Yup I identify as Scottish and was born in Edinburgh yet because I live in London I have no vote - that surely isn't fair?

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Taffin
1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Yup I identify as Scottish and was born in Edinburgh yet because I live in London I have no vote - that surely isn't fair?

 

How do you define it though? We're British by birth, open vote for all Brits? 

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Smithee
1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

How do you define it though? We're British by birth, open vote for all Brits? 

 

It would be easy enough to do it like the national team or something

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Taffin
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It would be easy enough to do it like the national team or something

 

Possibly. What about born in 'England' to 'Scottish' parents. Or neither but 'Scottish' grandparents.

 

I reckon it would be messy and would need set out long in advance if the wait for Irish foreign birth registration is anything to go by!

Edited by Taffin
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JudyJudyJudy
38 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

We need more horrifying posts about indy imo🤣

I am a bit dramatic with my adjectives..:) 

36 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Exactly. 

One of the polls just before the referendum had 51-49 in favour of yes..

Nationalists do have a thing for polls though, then reality bites them on the arse :lol:

 

If only big, hairy-arsed, tartan clad Jocks were allowed to vote, then we would be independent :biggrin2:

Yuck :) 

35 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Haha.......I don't the answers are quite what they will be looking for. They didn't even have to consider the hard border with England last time.

 

Here's my tuppence worth. There's not going to be another referendum, so it's all a bit moot but anyways....

 

If the shambles of Brexit has told us anything, it's not to repeat the same mistake twice.

 

So why not negotiate the terms of the break up of the UK first before having a vote. All the assets and liabilities, currency, pensions, border control, defence and everything else involved.

 

Then stick in a prospectus with a future vision, and we can all vote on if we fancy it or not?

Excellent suggestion. I can guess which side would flatly say no to that though. 

31 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

You don't think suggestions that only pure scots should be allowed to vote is insular? 

 

That's why it wasn't aimed at you, as I don't think you do think that. I did call another poster out on it before though. It's the epitome of xenophobic insularity.

 

Is it worse in rUK? I actually don't think it is in my experience. My time in Wales and England has been significantly more multi-cultural than my time in Scotland. Putting that to the side though and let's say it is, why would Scotland use that as a barometer? Is the tagline of independence going to be "the least insular country of the British isles?"... doesn't really say much.

 

 

 

 

Joking aside, and I do enjoy the joke, it was a serious question. Has there been more due diligence and answers, or at least hypotheses offered up?

 

When i have visited England I don't even feel like i am in another country. Not at all.  

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Smithee
Just now, Taffin said:

 

Possibly. What about born in 'England' to 'Scottish' parents. Or neither but 'Scottish' grandparents.

 

I reckon it would be messy and would need set out long in advance if the wait for Irish foreign birth registration is anything to go by!

Messy and impossible are different things though, I think we're too easily put off by anything more complicated than noughts and crosses as a nation.

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jonesy
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Yup I identify as Scottish and was born in Edinburgh yet because I live in London I have no vote - that surely isn't fair?

That spangle from London that got the plastic surgery to look like a KPop star is awaiting his Seoul voters registration card with baited breath.

Edited by jonesy
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Taffin
5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Messy and impossible are different things though, I think we're too easily put off by anything more complicated than noughts and crosses as a nation.

 

True, it's all hypothetical anyway as if it ever happens they'll just do the same as last time imo.

 

The amount of people that would meet the football or rugby criteria would be probably close to 7 figures.

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Japan Jambo
3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

How do you define it though? We're British by birth, open vote for all Brits? 

 

I thought you had a good go at it earlier with the resident in Scotland now or would be eligible for a Scottish passport going forward - would you have me reclassed as English? While I'm happy to live here I am not at all happy with that prospect!! If you link it to taxation then it's straight down the poll tax rabbit hole...

 

This is only one of many, many difficult and divisive questions that should be being discussed right now if a poll is indeed considered for next year. Time to lay off the blue face paint and to start actually writing a white paper that lays out how all this would work, failing to learn from the Brexit debacle would be a spectacular miss-step. 

 

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Smithee
Just now, Taffin said:

 

True, it's all hypothetical anyway as if it ever happens they'll just do the same as last time imo.

 

The amount of people that would meet the football or rugby criteria would be probably close to 7 figures.

Those who cared enough would apply for a ballot but I bet there wouldnt be that many who actually went to the bother.

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Taffin
Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

I thought you had a good go at it earlier with the resident in Scotland now or would be eligible for a Scottish passport going forward - would you have me reclassed as English? While I'm happy to live here I am not at all happy with that prospect!! If you link it to taxation then it's straight down the poll tax rabbit hole...

 

You're British from a legal perspective (I think). 

 

The reason I changed my view is I think any British person will be eligible for a Scottish passport if they so chose to get one. So it would encompass every Brit...not that I view you as English (I'm in the same boat)

 

Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

This is only one of many, many difficult and divisive questions that should be being discussed right now if a poll is indeed considered for next year. Time to lay off the blue face paint and to start actually writing a white paper that lays out how all this would work, failing to learn from the Brexit debacle would be a spectacular miss-step. 

 

 

Agreed.

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38 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The Scots only stuff turns me right off independence. I badly wanted it in 2014 mainly for political and ideological reasons. I believed Scotland wanted to be an open and inclusive place; I'm now seeing more and more that it's main supporters actually seem to be more in favour of insularity and that it's only for the right type of Scots. Grim.

 

Edit: that's not aimed at Jack D, but I've seen that argument used on here in that way previously.

 

I voted ideologically in 2014. Next time I'd vote much more pragmatically. On that front, is there any renewed plan/roadmap/white paper that answers some of the questions people had last time around? 

 

 Wings in 2014 came up with that wee blue book which helped win a lot of hearts and minds over. Alba have launched the Wee Alba book which is of a similar mould written by the same people, but updated to reflect the changes over the last 7/8 years. I realise Alba have their detractors and I'm growing a little frustrated myself with some of the so called activists on twitter that seem to be unable to swallow any anger or frustration at the SNP and focus on a positive vision to sell voters. 

 

I don't think we have any referendums coming up soon anyway judging by Sturgeons reaction to being asked about it :D Considering its her lifes work, you'd think talking about it she'd be enthusiastic and energetic. 2023 isn't happening. We've been led up the mountain enough times already, this is just another time. 

 

 

 

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Taffin
2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Those who cared enough would apply for a ballot but I bet there wouldnt be that many who actually went to the bother.

 

A brief google suggests 800k Scots (unsure how they're defining that) live in England. I'd imagine a lot of those who are old enough to vote would do so, if given the chance.

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Jeffros Furios

Apart from long legged slavic women I'd deport all non Scots.  

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theshed
20 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

 

 

 Wings in 2014 came up with that wee blue book which helped win a lot of hearts and minds over. Alba have launched the Wee Alba book which is of a similar mould written by the same people, but updated to reflect the changes over the last 7/8 years. I realise Alba have their detractors and I'm growing a little frustrated myself with some of the so called activists on twitter that seem to be unable to swallow any anger or frustration at the SNP and focus on a positive vision to sell voters. 

 

I don't think we have any referendums coming up soon anyway judging by Sturgeons reaction to being asked about it :D Considering its her lifes work, you'd think talking about it she'd be enthusiastic and energetic. 2023 isn't happening. We've been led up the mountain enough times already, this is just another time. 

 

 

 


 

She couldn’t have looked more uninterested if she tried    

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Taffin
22 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

 

 

 Wings in 2014 came up with that wee blue book which helped win a lot of hearts and minds over. Alba have launched the Wee Alba book which is of a similar mould written by the same people, but updated to reflect the changes over the last 7/8 years. I realise Alba have their detractors and I'm growing a little frustrated myself with some of the so called activists on twitter that seem to be unable to swallow any anger or frustration at the SNP and focus on a positive vision to sell voters. 

 

Interesting skim read, cheers. It's pretty loose, but it's something. Might read more later.

 

22 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I don't think we have any referendums coming up soon anyway judging by Sturgeons reaction to being asked about it :D Considering its her lifes work, you'd think talking about it she'd be enthusiastic and energetic. 2023 isn't happening. We've been led up the mountain enough times already, this is just another time. 

 

 

 

 

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Malinga the Swinga
1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

The Scots only stuff turns me right off independence. I badly wanted it in 2014 mainly for political and ideological reasons. I believed Scotland wanted to be an open and inclusive place; I'm now seeing more and more that it's main supporters actually seem to be more in favour of insularity and that it's only for the right type of Scots. Grim.

 

Edit: that's not aimed at Jack D, but I've seen that argument used on here in that way previously.

 

I voted ideologically in 2014. Next time I'd vote much more pragmatically. On that front, is there any renewed plan/roadmap/white paper that answers some of the questions people had last time around? 

Of course there isn't. We still have no clue on currency or pensions, and any negative papers tend to be either redacted or 'lost'.

Fair enough, if you want an independent Scotland for your freedom, and you care about nothing else, then you will vote in favour of breaking up union. You'll then jump immediately into wanting into another union where we will be treated as a piss ant little country by France and Germany.

You must hate the English so much to be willing to buy into rainbows and unicorns as a reason for jumping into the unknown.

They pretend they done, too gutless too admit it, but it's obviously a driver for them, and their leaders on Scotland and Westminster.

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JudyJudyJudy
16 minutes ago, theshed said:


 

She couldn’t have looked more uninterested if she tried    

I know . A face like thunder.

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jonesy
39 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Apart from long legged slavic women I'd deport all non Scots.  

Perhaps some kind of Liberia resolution is best for all concerned? 🤯

 

The field jocks could all board a flotilla of tartan painted skiffs and make their way into the Atlantic then through the northwest passage before finally settling some island off the Kamchatka peninsula, leaving the land mass of North Britain to the invaders and colonisers? 👣

 

Deporting all Scots would instantly make this a much more liveable country, IMO. 

 

🥳

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Malinga the Swinga
3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Perhaps some kind of Liberia resolution is best for all concerned? 🤯

 

The field jocks could all board a flotilla of tartan painted skiffs and make their way into the Atlantic then through the northwest passage before finally settling some island off the Kamchatka peninsula, leaving the land mass of North Britain to the invaders and colonisers? 👣

 

Deporting all Scots would instantly make this a much more liveable country, IMO. 

 

🥳

Agreed, Deport anyone who wants to deport non Scots. Would make new country far more inclusive and get everyone working together instead of usual self interested lot.

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Japan Jambo
6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Perhaps some kind of Liberia resolution is best for all concerned? 🤯

 

The field jocks could all board a flotilla of tartan painted skiffs and make their way into the Atlantic then through the northwest passage before finally settling some island off the Kamchatka peninsula, leaving the land mass of North Britain to the invaders and colonisers? 👣

 

Deporting all Scots would instantly make this a much more liveable country, IMO. 

 

🥳

 

may be too right wing for some on here....

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jonesy
1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Agreed, Deport anyone who wants to deport non Scots. Would make new country far more inclusive and get everyone working together instead of usual self interested lot.

Will be using the same loophole I used to re-enter the UK as a Spanish taxpayer to ensure I can stay and oversee the long legged Slavic bursds.

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jonesy
1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Is there a guarantee I don't need factor 50 and the food is unhealthy?

+40 degrees in the summer and the food consists of rice and mutton cooked in gallons of oil :( 

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Japan Jambo
3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

+40 degrees in the summer and the food consists of rice and mutton cooked in gallons of oil :( 

 

well big tick on the grub, a wee bit flour and an errant bottle of brown sauce and that's the pies sorted.

are we talking Centigrade or Fahrenheit? 

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jonesy
10 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

well big tick on the grub, a wee bit flour and an errant bottle of brown sauce and that's the pies sorted.

are we talking Centigrade or Fahrenheit? 

Centigrade. 

 

Actually, the local law was that, in premises without aircon, if the temperature ever went above 40C then staff were to be sent home. Our boss used to delight in telling us that the official, state-sanctioned government weather report stated the temp was 39.5C...

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Japan Jambo
5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Centigrade. 

 

Actually, the local law was that, in premises without aircon, if the temperature ever went above 40C then staff were to be sent home. Our boss used to delight in telling us that the official, state-sanctioned government weather report stated the temp was 39.5C...

 

remember that in Beijing, pretty sure there were a massive number of days where the highs were all recorded at the same level

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jonesy
2 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

remember that in Beijing, pretty sure there were a massive number of days where the highs were all recorded at the same level

It's the one thing you learn from living and working in different countries - arseholes are arseholes everywhere.

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Dawnrazor
6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

It's the one thing you learn from living and working in different countries - arseholes are arseholes everywhere.

One of the only good bits of advice I got from my Dad when moving out was that I didn't need to take my own arsehole because there would be one wherever I went, he was correct.

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The Mighty Thor
3 hours ago, The Hogfather said:

 

Pretty easy to make that call when you're not living in the country and don't have to directly deal with the consequences though, eh?

And for that reason if your primary residence ain't in Scotland you should have no say in what goes on. 

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jonesy
7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

And for that reason if your primary residence ain't in Scotland you should have no say in what goes on. 

I can't even believe folk are arguing differently. 

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jack D and coke
4 hours ago, OTT said:

 

 

 

 Wings in 2014 came up with that wee blue book which helped win a lot of hearts and minds over. Alba have launched the Wee Alba book which is of a similar mould written by the same people, but updated to reflect the changes over the last 7/8 years. I realise Alba have their detractors and I'm growing a little frustrated myself with some of the so called activists on twitter that seem to be unable to swallow any anger or frustration at the SNP and focus on a positive vision to sell voters. 

 

I don't think we have any referendums coming up soon anyway judging by Sturgeons reaction to being asked about it :D Considering its her lifes work, you'd think talking about it she'd be enthusiastic and energetic. 2023 isn't happening. We've been led up the mountain enough times already, this is just another time. 

 

 

 

Regardless of views on Salmond and now Alba at least they try to give you some sort of vision. It can be pulled apart and it’s there to be shot at for sure that’s fair do’s but show me anything that Sturgeons SNP have done in comparison in nearly 8 years. 
She’s an utter fraud. 

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The Real Maroonblood
41 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Regardless of views on Salmond and now Alba at least they try to give you some sort of vision. It can be pulled apart and it’s there to be shot at for sure that’s fair do’s but show me anything that Sturgeons SNP have done in comparison in nearly 8 years. 
She’s an utter fraud. 

I would rather have Joanna Cherry as FM.

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JudyJudyJudy

At last !!!!!!! 
 

 

 

sorry my mistake that was headline in June 2018 

91B2FFF4-4869-4F70-A742-0C3E07980EDC.jpeg

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jack D and coke
2 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I would rather have Joanna Cherry as FM.

Yeah be better I reckon. Sturgeons time about up for me. 

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The Real Maroonblood
9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah be better I reckon. Sturgeons time about up for me. 

👍

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Smithee
15 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah be better I reckon. Sturgeons time about up for me. 

Mhairi Black ya bas

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jack D and coke
1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Mhairi Black ya bas

It’s almost feels like something she’d say. 

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53 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Regardless of views on Salmond and now Alba at least they try to give you some sort of vision. It can be pulled apart and it’s there to be shot at for sure that’s fair do’s but show me anything that Sturgeons SNP have done in comparison in nearly 8 years. 
She’s an utter fraud. 


She was handed a united independence movement and her actions are fracturing it big time. Maybe it will come back together when we eventually have a date, maybe not. She’s divisive and I don’t trust her one bit.
 

Fact is, she’s not moved the dial one inch, or done any of the ground work needed to shut down Unionist fear mongering. The currency issue for example is still up in the air and has no substance. These issues are known and if time is spent answering them will turn the tide.
 

Joanna Cherry would get me voting SNP again. But we all know it will be Angus Robertson and I don’t trust him either. I think both Sturgeon and Robertson have done a lot to remove the memberships say in the development of party policy which speaks volumes about their views IMO.

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JudyJudyJudy
3 minutes ago, OTT said:


She was handed a united independence movement and her actions are fracturing it big time. Maybe it will come back together when we eventually have a date, maybe not. She’s divisive and I don’t trust her one bit.
 

Fact is, she’s not moved the dial one inch, or done any of the ground work needed to shut down Unionist fear mongering. The currency issue for example is still up in the air and has no substance. These issues are known and if time is spent answering them will turn the tide.
 

Joanna Cherry would get me voting SNP again. But we all know it will be Angus Robertson and I don’t trust him either. I think both Sturgeon and Robertson have done a lot to remove the memberships say in the development of party policy which speaks volumes about their views IMO.

Joanna cherry is my local MP . I voted for her as she is a fine , intelligent and principled person . 

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1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Joanna cherry is my local MP . I voted for her as she is a fine , intelligent and principled person . 


Yeah, I like her too. I think Sturgeon has built a clique if not borderline personality cult and even if Cherry did win she’d have an insurmountable task to undo what Sturgeon and her clique have done to the party. To make those sort of changes I think you need a support base, and I reckon most of them are now in Alba. 

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jack D and coke
2 minutes ago, OTT said:


She was handed a united independence movement and her actions are fracturing it big time. Maybe it will come back together when we eventually have a date, maybe not. She’s divisive and I don’t trust her one bit.
 

Fact is, she’s not moved the dial one inch, or done any of the ground work needed to shut down Unionist fear mongering. The currency issue for example is still up in the air and has no substance. These issues are known and if time is spent answering them will turn the tide.
 

Joanna Cherry would get me voting SNP again. But we all know it will be Angus Robertson and I don’t trust him either. I think both Sturgeon and Robertson have done a lot to remove the memberships say in the development of party policy which speaks volumes about their views IMO.

I know Salmond is a marmite character and possibly forever tarnished but I felt much more for his SNP than this. His pushed and at least tried to paint a picture for what might be. You can disagree with everything he stood for and the white paper got plenty detractors but at least he tried to give you something. I have no idea what this SNP are offering…nothing has ever been fleshed out it’s the same questions as 8 years ago…the dial hasn’t been shifted one iota. 
Trying to proper bury Salmond and then good people like Joanna Cherry leave me a bit cold about them tbh. 
Salmond might well be noncey I make no defence of him. He was cleared though and there’s a stench about all that trying to get him put away. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I know Salmond is a marmite character and possibly forever tarnished but I felt much more for his SNP than this. His pushed and at least tried to paint a picture for what might be. You can disagree with everything he stood for and the white paper got plenty detractors but at least he tried to give you something. I have no idea what this SNP are offering…nothing has ever been fleshed out it’s the same questions as 8 years ago…the dial hasn’t been shifted one iota. 
Trying to proper bury Salmond and then good people like Joanna Cherry leave me a bit cold about them tbh. 
Salmond might well be noncey I make no defence of him. He was cleared though and there’s a stench about all that trying to get him put away. 
 

 


I completely agree. Salmonds SNP was a proper left wing party that had a vision and excelled at delivering it.  George Foulkes quote about Salmond deliberately making services in Scotland better exemplifies this. 
 

Sturgeon to me is a tartan Tory kidding us on shes left wing, meanwhile shes given neoliberal creeps like Angus Robertson, Stewart MacDonald and Alyn Smith Cart Blanche to make wholesale changes to the direction of the party backed up by troughers that couldn’t care less. YSI proudly adopting a pro Nato stance overseen by Smith is an example of this. They’ve never been pro nato and that’s clearly changed due to the leadership. 
 

It’s utterly unrecognisable to 2014 IMO. 
 

The sad thing is too many Alba activists and candidates aren’t savvy enough to calm down and focus on Alba instead of trashing the SNP. You can’t win peoples votes by telling them their wrong! 😂

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jack D and coke
3 minutes ago, OTT said:


I completely agree. Salmonds SNP was a proper left wing party that had a vision and excelled at delivering it.  George Foulkes quote about Salmond deliberately making services in Scotland better exemplifies this. 
 

Sturgeon to me is a tartan Tory kidding us on shes left wing, meanwhile shes given neoliberal creeps like Angus Robertson, Stewart MacDonald and Alyn Smith Cart Blanche to make wholesale changes to the direction of the party backed up by troughers that couldn’t care less. YSI proudly adopting a pro Nato stance overseen by Smith is an example of this. They’ve never been pro nato and that’s clearly changed due to the leadership. 
 

It’s utterly unrecognisable to 2014 IMO. 
 

The sad thing is too many Alba activists and candidates aren’t savvy enough to calm down and focus on Alba instead of trashing the SNP. You can’t win peoples votes by telling them their wrong! 😂

I don’t think salmonds SNP was that left wing. He was pretty clever and pro business I thought and just seemed full of answers when pressed and clever quips. He pushed the movement and handed this lot something with momentum. 
He’s the last politician I actually liked I’ll be honest. 


 

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Jonkel Hoon

Alba/snp

 

You're all indy, but some are more indy than others

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