SNP and Greens coalition.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

How would anyone know what people put on their ballot paper?

 

Sounds like another Nationalist myth to me.

A bit Hibs IMO

Exit polls I'd think, is that not how it's normally done?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

A touch xenophobic one might argue from the poster. No wonder many of us (English?) are put off by Scottish nationalism . 

True 

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

 

Yer no' helping' yersel', Jackie!

 

I'm sure many people who have made Scotland their home, despite not being born here, consider themselves Scots. And this isn't just being pedantic.

 

I understand you're probably not intending to come across as a wee bit xenophobic, but those arguing for constitutional change based on a wee line drawn on a map which has changed so much over the a thousand+ years really need to be careful not be drawn into painting 'outsiders' as the problem and ending up promoting a form of Trump and co's birther theory.

Correct 

14 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Probably should, really.

 

However, given some of the rather trivial warnings I've had on KB, I'm surprised Hoose Jock is seemingly allowed.

Yea it’s shameful that it’s allowed 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

How would anyone know what people put on their ballot paper?

 

Sounds like another Nationalist myth to me.

A bit Hibs IMO

Desperate myth really . 

[Nucky Thompson]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Exit polls I'd think, is that not how it's normally done?

I don't know if an exit poll would ask anyone their place of birth?

Exit polls are usually to gauge what people have voted for and even then they aren't 100%

[The Hogfather]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

 

Worded wrongly granted that’s not how I meant it to sound. My point is Scots voted in favour of Independence. 
The Leave/Remain vote excluded EU nationals whether their lives were here or not.
Who’s the xenophobes? 

 

I know plenty Scots who voted against in 2014. I also know a handful of non-Scots who voted Yes. Anything to suggest one nationality voted one way or the other is just conjecture. The Brexit vote was rigged right from the start so your point is valid there.

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

 

I know plenty Scots who voted against in 2014. I also know a handful of non-Scots who voted Yes. Anything to suggest one nationality voted one way or the other is just conjecture. The Brexit vote was rigged right from the start so your point is valid there.

I didn’t mean no Scots voted No. I know plenty. My point was if only Scots votes were counted it was a Yes. 
 

Edited June 8, 2022 by jack D and coke

[The Hogfather]

11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I didn’t mean no Scots voted No. I know plenty. My point was if only Scots votes were counted it was a Yes. 
 

 

I still don't think you can comprehensively prove that. Not that it matters, it was nearly 8 years ago. 

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

 

I still don't think you can comprehensively prove that. Not that it matters, it was nearly 8 years ago. 

I can’t remember where I read it or seen it so no I can’t back it up  

It doesn’t really matter anymore either no. 

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

How would anyone know what people put on their ballot paper?

 

Sounds like another Nationalist myth to me.

A bit Hibs IMO

It must be completely made up. No doubt the snp asked a few scaffs from some shithole in west, probably paisley then decided that was that.  

[Dazo]

Double. 🙄

Edited June 8, 2022 by Dazo

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

I can’t remember where I read it or seen it so no I can’t back it up  

It doesn’t really matter anymore either no. 

I read it too a while back but also can't remember. It was a breakdown of demographics etc...

[pablo]

Some desperate stuff in the last few pages. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

I can’t remember where I read it or seen it so no I can’t back it up  

It doesn’t really matter anymore either no. 

You rip the arse out of me when i make that excuse !! 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, The Hogfather said:

 

I still don't think you can comprehensively prove that. Not that it matters, it was nearly 8 years ago. 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

You rip the arse out of me when i make that excuse !! 

 Have I? Not sure I have but but fire away then I don’t get offended👍🏼

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

Well fancy that😃🤣

[pablo]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Well fancy that😃🤣

 

But what point were you trying to make? You're not suggesting it should have only been Scots born here that was allowed a vote are you?

Edited June 8, 2022 by pablo

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

But what point were you trying to make? You're not suggesting it should have only been Scots born here that was allowed a vote are you?

He is. 

[Unknown user]

'Ailsa also found a “stark difference” between the voting patterns of protestants at Catholics, with Catholic voters far more likely to be Yes supporters.

 

'She said she and her team still were not sure what lay behind the religion figures.'

 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

He is. 

I don't think he is, you should listen to what he's saying, not what you think he means.

[jack D and coke]

[pablo]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

He is. 

 

But there's three quarters of a million Scots born here but living in England, Wales and NI too. 

 

Doesn't sound the smartest move to have made the vote only for people who were born in Scotland.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

I don't think he is, you should listen to what he's saying, not what you think he means.

It didn’t come out the way I meant.

I appreciate the way it could be construed. Fair enough really. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

But there's three quarters of a million Scots born here but living in England, Wales and NI too. 

 

Doesn't sound the smartest move to have made the vote only for people who were born in Scotland.

I think anyone who was born in Scotland has the right to vote on its future even if they no longer stay here. They may still have relatives in scotland and be thinking of their futures. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 hours ago, jonesy said:

 

Fair enough, he gut does spread over several acres right enough. 

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Fair enough, he gut does spread over several acres right enough. 

 

His joke about the Tories and Boris wad good though.

 

Said something about the Tories all shouting him down in Parliament everytime he called for the PM's resignation.

 

When in fact 41% of them were cheering him on.

 

not bad

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

His joke about the Tories and Boris wad good though.

 

Said something about the Tories all shouting him down in Parliament everytime he called for the PM's resignation.

 

When in fact 41% of them were cheering him on.

 

not bad

 

He's a fat hibby twat. Someone must have written that for him

[The Hogfather]

47 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

 

Unless this study was to ask every voter their place of birth and which way they voted, this is no more accurate than any of the polls that had the Yes vote winning. So this isn't the gotcha you think it is.

[The Hogfather]

49 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Well fancy that😃🤣

 

Means absolutely nothing. They'll have run a sample of the electorate and come out with a number, which makes it as reliable as an exit poll.

[Taffin]

5 hours ago, jonesy said:

 

 

The Scots only stuff turns me right off independence. I badly wanted it in 2014 mainly for political and ideological reasons. I believed Scotland wanted to be an open and inclusive place; I'm now seeing more and more that it's main supporters actually seem to be more in favour of insularity and that it's only for the right type of Scots. Grim.

 

Edit: that's not aimed at Jack D, but I've seen that argument used on here in that way previously.

 

I voted ideologically in 2014. Next time I'd vote much more pragmatically. On that front, is there any renewed plan/roadmap/white paper that answers some of the questions people had last time around? 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Taffin

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

No danger, man! I mean, my son was born in Catalonia but left when he was two months old. Should he have a vote in future Spanish constitutional matters? 

 

Perhaps anyone who goes the Scottie dug in Monopoly should also get a vote?

Ok ill may need to rethink this.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

The Scots only stuff turns me right off independence. I badly wanted it in 2014 mainly for political and ideological reasons. I believed Scotland wanted to be an open and inclusive place; I'm now seeing more and more that it's main supporters actually seem to be more in favour of insularity and that it's only for the right type of Scots. Grim.

 

I voted ideologically in 2014. Next time I'd vote much more pragmatically. On that front, is there any renewed plan/roadmap/white paper that answers some of the questions people had last time around? 

Very well articulated.  Exactly my thoughts. Im horrifed at some of the comments on this from some Indy supporters really.  Just some mind you. 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The Scots only stuff turns me right off independence. I badly wanted it in 2014 mainly for political and ideological reasons. I believed Scotland wanted to be an open and inclusive place; I'm now seeing more and more that it's main supporters actually seem to be more in favour of insularity and that it's only for the right type of Scots. Grim.

 

Edit: that's not aimed at Jack D, but I've seen that argument used on here in that way previously.

 

I voted ideologically in 2014. Next time I'd vote much more pragmatically. On that front, is there any renewed plan/roadmap/white paper that answers some of the questions people had last time around? 

Aim at me if you like lol. Insularity? I don’t think so tbh. 
Maybe take a look around at the ruk first for insularity. 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

 

Means absolutely nothing. They'll have run a sample of the electorate and come out with a number, which makes it as reliable as an exit poll.

Nope, it says a series of surveys

[jack D and coke]

We need more horrifying posts about indy imo🤣

[The Mighty Thor]

10 minutes ago, jonesy said:

No danger, man! I mean, my son was born in Catalonia but left when he was two months old. Should he have a vote in future Spanish constitutional matters? 

 

Perhaps anyone who goes the Scottie dug in Monopoly should also get a vote?

Agreed. 

 

If you live here and you're eligible then you should get a vote. 

If you're not resident in Scotland then no vote I'm afraid. 

[Nucky Thompson]

7 minutes ago, The Hogfather said:

 

Unless this study was to ask every voter their place of birth and which way they voted, this is no more accurate than any of the polls that had the Yes vote winning. So this isn't the gotcha you think it is.

Exactly. 

One of the polls just before the referendum had 51-49 in favour of yes..

Nationalists do have a thing for polls though, then reality bites them on the arse 

 

If only big, hairy-arsed, tartan clad Jocks were allowed to vote, then we would be independent 

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The Scots only stuff turns me right off independence. I badly wanted it in 2014 mainly for political and ideological reasons. I believed Scotland wanted to be an open and inclusive place; I'm now seeing more and more that it's main supporters actually seem to be more in favour of insularity and that it's only for the right type of Scots. Grim.

 

Edit: that's not aimed at Jack D, but I've seen that argument used on here in that way previously.

 

I voted ideologically in 2014. Next time I'd vote much more pragmatically. On that front, is there any renewed plan/roadmap/white paper that answers some of the questions people had last time around? 

 

Haha.......I don't the answers are quite what they will be looking for. They didn't even have to consider the hard border with England last time.

 

Here's my tuppence worth. There's not going to be another referendum, so it's all a bit moot but anyways....

 

If the shambles of Brexit has told us anything, it's not to repeat the same mistake twice.

 

So why not negotiate the terms of the break up of the UK first before having a vote. All the assets and liabilities, currency, pensions, border control, defence and everything else involved.

 

Then stick in a prospectus with a future vision, and we can all vote on if we fancy it or not?

[The Hogfather]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Nope, it says a series of surveys

 

Which would still not be conclusive proof of its claim unless it asked every voter those two pertinent questions. As I doubt it did, you still can't conclusively say that if the votes were limited to people born in Scotland, the result would've been different.

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Aim at me if you like lol. Insularity? I don’t think so tbh. 
Maybe take a look around at the ruk first for insularity. 

 

You don't think suggestions that only pure scots should be allowed to vote is insular? 

 

That's why it wasn't aimed at you, as I don't think you do think that. I did call another poster out on it before though. It's the epitome of xenophobic insularity.

 

Is it worse in rUK? I actually don't think it is in my experience. My time in Wales and England has been significantly more multi-cultural than my time in Scotland. Putting that to the side though and let's say it is, why would Scotland use that as a barometer? Is the tagline of independence going to be "the least insular country of the British isles?"... doesn't really say much.

 

 

12 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

Yes. The currency will be the unicorn rainbow fart, which will be magically produced the moment the Yes campaign seal a 50.1% majority in a referendum. The hard border at Berwick will be manned by the same defenders of the realm who so selflessly donned their hazmat suits and telt Covid carrying outsiders to feck off during the pandemic.

 

 

Joking aside, and I do enjoy the joke, it was a serious question. Has there been more due diligence and answers, or at least hypotheses offered up?

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Taffin

[manaliveits105]

Och let them dream 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, The Hogfather said:

 

Which would still not be conclusive proof of its claim unless it asked every voter those two pertinent questions. As I doubt it did, you still can't conclusively say that if the votes were limited to people born in Scotland, the result would've been different.

I'm not trying to conclusively prove anything, I don't think it needs it either when it's such clear numbers. But it's not my claim, I just read the article.

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Agreed. 

 

If you live here and you're eligible then you should get a vote. 

If you're not resident in Scotland then no vote I'm afraid. 

I lived abroad last time. The outcome of that vote had all sorts of implications, my pensions, citizenship, ability to work, potential taxes, healthcare, ability to return etc.

 

I think citizens abroad should be allowed a vote.

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Haha.......I don't the answers are quite what they will be looking for. They didn't even have to consider the hard border with England last time.

 

Here's my tuppence worth. There's not going to be another referendum, so it's all a bit moot but anyways....

 

If the shambles of Brexit has told us anything, it's not to repeat the same mistake twice.

 

So why not negotiate the terms of the break up of the UK first before having a vote. All the assets and liabilities, currency, pensions, border control, defence and everything else involved.

 

Then stick in a prospectus with a future vision, and we can all vote on if we fancy it or not?

 

That would be too pragmatic and sensible. Better the devil you know is my stance now, as it was with the EU (albeit the EU is a lot less devilish than Westminster).

 

'Maybe we'll use this currency, but maybe that one. Maybe there will be a hard border, maybe it'll be in the sea.' How can anyone vote for that? Unless they really sell the dream, a dream I bought in 2014. They seem to have even given up on that now though.

[The Hogfather]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'm not trying to conclusively prove anything, I don't think it needs it either when it's such clear numbers. But it's not my claim, I just read the article.

 

Ok, so you got in the middle of a discussion I was having with another poster to offer absolutely nothing to that discussion? Cool.

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

You don't think suggestions that only pure scots should be allowed to vote is insular? 

 

That's why it was aimed at you, as I don't think you do think that. I did call another poster out on it before though. It's the epitome of xenophobic insularity.

 

Is it worse in rUK? I actually don't think it is in my experience. My time in Wales and England has been significantly more multi-cultural than my time in Scotland. Putting that to the side though and let's say it is, why would Scotland use that as a barometer? Is the tagline of independence going to be "the least insular country in the UK?"... doesn't really say much.

 

 

 

 

Joking aside, and I do enjoy the joke, it was a serious question. Has there been more due diligence and answers, or at least hypotheses offered up?

 

That’s not what I said. I said if only Scots votes were counted. It’s like fecking cancel culture in here  

I worded it wrong I admit but I can’t convince anyone that’s not what I meant I guess. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by jack D and coke

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, The Hogfather said:

 

Ok, so you got in the middle of a discussion I was having with another poster to offer absolutely nothing to that discussion? Cool.

No, I said how the figures were arrived at.

Go to PMs if you want privacy.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Smithee

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I lived abroad last time. The outcome of that vote had all sorts of implications, my pensions, citizenship, ability to work, potential taxes, healthcare, ability to return etc.

 

I think citizens abroad should be allowed a vote.

 

Any resident at the time of the vote and anyone who'd be eligible to get a Scottish passport should be allowed to vote imo.

 

Edit: Although, that said, I'd imagine any UK passport holder would be eligible so maybe that wouldn't work afterall.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Taffin

[The Hogfather]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I lived abroad last time. The outcome of that vote had all sorts of implications, my pensions, citizenship, ability to work, potential taxes, healthcare, ability to return etc.

 

I think citizens abroad should be allowed a vote.

 

Pretty easy to make that call when you're not living in the country and don't have to directly deal with the consequences though, eh?

[Taffin]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

That’s not what I said. I said if only Scots votes were counted. It’s like fecking cancel culture in here  

I worded it wrong I admit but I can’t convince anyone that’s not what I meant I guess. 

 

I know, that's why I said it wasn't aimed at you. It just happened to be the exact snippet that another poster used to advance the argument in favour of limiting the vote to some kind of pure scots previously. I've also heard it said IRL.